“Today there is a contamination problem,” WADA chief “The quantities are so small that you can get contaminated by doing harmless things”

Rovesciarete

Hall of Fame
In the context of the cases of Sinner and then Swiatek, some members and I, tried to explain here a very simple logic; performing more of much more sensitive tests will result in a much larger amount of ‘false positives’, in the form on insignificant contaminations. Nice to see the boss of WADA in person also following our concern:

"Today there is a contamination problem,” he said. “This does not mean that there are more cases of this kind than in the past, the fact is that laboratories are more efficient in detecting even infinitesimal quantities of substances. The quantities are so small that you can get contaminated by doing harmless things. The truth is that we hear a lot of stories and I understand the public opinion that can end up thinking that we take everything.

More detail from this Polish article:

WADA President Witold Bańka and the head of the Polish Anti-Doping Agency (POLADA) Michał Rynkowski also drew attention to this problem during a recent meeting with journalists.

- To imagine the scale of sensitivity of today's devices, it can be said that they are able to detect a drop of a prohibited substance released into a water-filled Olympic pool - explained Bańka.
The head of POLADA, on the other hand, cited an example of an experiment in which traces of an illegal substance were detected in samples taken from people who previously handed a person using an ointment with a prohibited agent.

"If there were minimum thresholds for these substances, we probably wouldn't have heard about all these cases at all," Niggli said. "However, we need to understand whether we are ready to accept the risk of microdosing and where these limits should be put," he said.

The issue of microdosing is interesting, with no confirmed efficacy for certain substances* but some effect in blood doping. Both are of no concern in the two big cases.

Results: Our review concludes that it is premature to draw any conclusions about the efficacy or safety of microdosing since the research quality cannot be considered confirmatory.

Discussion: We propose some potential causes for the current state of the literature and some suggestions for how these causes may be ameliorated.

After a slow start WADA seems to accelerate on the issue of unintentional ‘doping’ due to contamination with the tiniest of traces.


*Needs certainly more study
 
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nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Look I have worked in laboratory testing in the past. That is complete garbage and an article put out because Iga got busted.

This is why we have to get rid of excuses.
You worked in laboratory testing and still make such a stupid argument means shame.

It's actually very possible in drugs that they are not well tested so maybe someone in your position is screwing things up.
 

Drighiz

Rookie
In the context of the cases of Sinner and then Swiatek, some members and I, tried to explain here a very simple logic; performing more of much more sensitive tests will result in a much larger amount of ‘false positives’, in the form on insignificant contaminations. Nice to see the boss of WADA in person also following our concern:



More detail from this Polish article:



The issue of microdosing is interesting, with no confirmed efficacy for certain substances* but some effect in blood doping. Both are of no concern in the two big cases.



After a slow start WADA seems to accelerate on the issue of unintentional ‘doping’ due to contamination with the tiniest of traces.


*Needs certainly more study
Alleluia. Much, much needed words of reason.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Just so we know who this "authority" is that they cite in the article. We are talking a former polish sprinter with no experience in laboratory testing.

This is exactly why we need to take politics and excuses out of the decision.

Here is so called WADA president:

And the sprinter is not doing testing but is probably more experienced from athletes side.

Very good appointment. Nothing to see there.


Now is that guy doing laboratory testing? Of course not. Only an idiot would think so. So why are you pointing that out? Do you consider average ttw an idiot?
 

Better_Call_Raul

Hall of Fame
"There's no doubt that Sinner is one of the cleanest and most honest athletes in world sport.”
-- Italian Tennis Federation President

 

LOBALOT

Legend
And the sprinter is not doing testing but is probably more experienced from athletes side.

Very good appointment. Nothing to see there.


Now is that guy doing laboratory testing? Of course not. Only an idiot would think so. So why are you pointing that out? Do you consider average ttw an idiot?

My point exactly. This article was posted as an argument for the simple minded who look for excuses for the dopers.

In reality the article is a perfect example that the system is broken. He doesn't know what he is talking about. That is the exactly what I am saying.
 

LOBALOT

Legend
And the sprinter is not doing testing but is probably more experienced from athletes side.

Very good appointment. Nothing to see there.


Now is that guy doing laboratory testing? Of course not. Only an idiot would think so. So why are you pointing that out? Do you consider average ttw an idiot?

It seems German authorities also agree that WADA is a broken system especially under the doper polish president of WADA made the decision he has made.

 

LOBALOT

Legend
Ban drug testing in sports. Just let players do what they want. Simple solution.

I am a bit on this page from the perspective that I think you have the dopers and the non dopers.

Let the dopers form their own league and argue among themself as to what constitutes doping as one player after another dopes more and more with more sophisticated and beneficial performance enhancing drugs. They will quickly see that this situation will not be sustainable but let them have at it.

The doping league can have their 4 majors in China, Russia, Poland, and Italy and let their doper players have their league.

Meanwhile the non dopers can continue with testing and have their own league with the 4 majors of ausie, French, Wimbledon, US Open.
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
I am a bit on this page from the perspective that I think you have the dopers and the non dopers.

Let the dopers form their own league and argue among themself as to what constitutes doping as one player after another dopes more and more with more sophisticated and beneficial performance enhancing drugs. They will quickly see that this situation will not be sustainable but let them have at it.

The doping league can have their 4 majors in China, Russia, Poland, and Italy and let their doper players have their league.

Meanwhile the non dopers can continue with testing and have their own league with the 4 majors of ausie, French, Wimbledon, US Open.

I love it

Dope Tour in Saudi, Russia, North Korea, Belarus and Italy
 

insideguy

G.O.A.T.
Honestly this is all utter nonsense. Such garbage trying to actually act like this is nothing.. These people have gone to the Trump/Putin school of bullcrap.

I guess if everyone lies there is no truth. Thats the way they want it. Not that they care and I dont really matter but I am done watching tennis until I see this issue actually addressed. Cause right now it seems like everyone is in make up crap as they go along mode.
 

Lleytonstation

Talk Tennis Guru
On the Pipe.
Golden.
afc31a72-5e67-4ed5-82f6-c944bfe284be_text.gif
 

vokazu

Legend
Ban drug testing in sports. Just let players do what they want. Simple solution.
Ban positive doping test players for life. A more simpler and safer solution.

ATP WTA ITF could be sued if athletes die after drug overdose, if they legalise doping.
 

Better_Call_Raul

Hall of Fame
The issue of microdosing is interesting, with no confirmed efficacy for certain substances* but some effect in blood doping. Both are of no concern in the two big cases.

The WADA President makes a valid point. Laboratory methods have vastly improved and can now detect even the most minute of levels. It is true.

How do we properly use these wonderful new efficient and sensitive lab methods in the war against doping?

IF the efficacy of micro dosing is inconclusive it is best to just let these low levels of positives go.
 
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Watching

Rookie
No one is dying from blood doping. It’s the anabolic use that bodybuilders die from but these dudes are also 300 pounds
that’s still too extreme of a solution, I’m fine with commissions sorting things out as long as things are kept transparent, clear cut numbers are good in theory but never work in real life (yes, even 0 is not a good number imho)
I also understand the frustration of people who got heavily punished (such as Halep) but that doesn’t mean everyone should be treated as a junkie for “fairness”. We should fix things rather than double down on harsh sentences
 

insideguy

G.O.A.T.
that’s still too extreme of a solution, I’m fine with commissions sorting things out as long as things are kept transparent, clear cut numbers are good in theory but never work in real life (yes, even 0 is not a good number imho)
I also understand the frustration of people who got heavily punished (such as Halep) but that doesn’t mean everyone should be treated as a junkie for “fairness”. We should fix things rather than double down on harsh sentences
Who is gonna fix things? This whole year has been a disaster. We have the top two tennis athletes testing positive. And everyone in tennis is saying this is just ok. We have better tests. Jesus. I think I am living on a different planet.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Puerta had a tiny amount of etilefrine (i.e. a cardiac stimulant) in his second positive test, so that's not really a good defence when Puerta later admitted to lying in order to get an 8-year ban reduced to 2 years.

Players back then tended to get pretty long bans, justly and unjustly, for positive tests. Apart from Agassi, strangely, as his positive test for crystal meth in 1997 was covered up.
 

Watching

Rookie
Who is gonna fix things? This whole year has been a disaster. We have the top two tennis athletes testing positive. And everyone in tennis is saying this is just ok. We have better tests. Jesus. I think I am living on a different planet.
Just getting past the “it’s unfair to the athletes banned previously” mentality would help
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
seriously. Screw them. Of course I live in the USA so avoiding this sport won't be hard.
What sport will you watch instead? Tennis until this year, when two numbers 1s tested positive, was considered one of the least hit by serious doping scandals. It's not exactly like athletics or cycling.
 

Watching

Rookie
What sport will you watch instead? Tennis until this year, when two numbers 1s tested positive, was considered one of the least hit by serious doping scandals. It's not exactly like athletics or cycling.
Surely the nfl and nba are drugs free leagues /s
 

insideguy

G.O.A.T.
What sport will you watch instead? Tennis until this year, when two numbers 1s tested positive, was considered one of the least hit by serious doping scandals. It's not exactly like athletics or cycling.
Dude I live in the USA. When tennis is big it's like 10th in peoples interests. Its barely covered as it is.
 

Better_Call_Raul

Hall of Fame
There is zero evidence that the popularity of the sport has been hurt by the Sinner case.

The Sinner bashers on this forum are not representative of the average tennis fan.

Just look at the U.S. Open. The average fan in the stands of NYC simply did not care about Sinner testing positive. The average fan accepted the Tribunal finding of no negligence and no intentional doping. Not a single jeer was heard from the sold out crowd as Sinner lifted the trophy in triumph over their favourite hapless Fritz.

And now we hear from this WADA President that there is a contamination problem.

What does it tell us? It tells us that the doping code will be revised and there will be a new kinder and gentler WADA going forward.
 

sortof

Professional
I wish to start the rumor that Sinner spiked Iga's drink in order to have WADA being more lenient on his case.
I actually wondered whether and how the Swiatek case could affect how the WADA is going to treat the Sinner incident. I don´t see it as beneficial for Sinner. The WADA is now probably under more pressure than before to treat these cases kind of heavy handed.
 

Better_Call_Raul

Hall of Fame
I actually wondered whether and how the Swiatek case could affect how the WADA is going to treat the Sinner incident. I don´t see it as beneficial for Sinner. The WADA is now probably under more pressure than before to treat these cases kind of heavy handed.

The WADA is now under huge pressure to appeal the Iga case to CAS. Cannot have unequal treatment for players. If WADA appealed Sinner case it must certainly do the same with Iga.
 

Watching

Rookie
It “wouldn’t be fair” not to appeal since any kind of doping calls for at the bare minimum a 12 months ban, amirite?
 

RSJfan

Hall of Fame
There is zero evidence that the popularity of the sport has been hurt by the Sinner case.

The Sinner bashers on this forum are not representative of the average tennis fan.

Just look at the U.S. Open. The average fan in the stands of NYC simply did not care about Sinner testing positive. The average fan accepted the Tribunal finding of no negligence and no intentional doping. Not a single jeer was heard from the sold out crowd as Sinner lifted the trophy in triumph over their favourite hapless Fritz.

And now we hear from this WADA President that there is a contamination problem.

What does it tell us? It tells us that the doping code will be revised and there will be a new kinder and gentler WADA going forward.
You’ve never stepped foot inside the NTC so you are speculating. However, I can confirm that the average USO fan didn’t care. But the average fan did not accept the tribunal finding which suggests the average fan gave it any thought, which they did not. If someday you attend a major you will discover people attend for the event as much as the tennis. They aren’t going or not going because your fav Carrot is or is not a doper. :rolleyes: It doesn’t factor into the choice to attend in any manner. As for jeering Carrot that I did not witness but I did see plenty of fans walk out of his practice sessions due to boredom which I did not see for Chuck practices.
 

StoicBoxer

New User
Honestly this is all utter nonsense. Such garbage trying to actually act like this is nothing.. These people have gone to the Trump/Putin school of bullcrap.

I guess if everyone lies there is no truth. Thats the way they want it. Not that they care and I dont really matter but I am done watching tennis until I see this issue actually addressed. Cause right now it seems like everyone is in make up crap as they go along mode.
TDS
 

RSJfan

Hall of Fame
The WADA is now under huge pressure to appeal the Iga case to CAS. Cannot have unequal treatment for players. If WADA appealed Sinner case it must certainly do the same with Iga.
Your fav WADA is even less subject to pressure than your fav Xi Jinping is. WADA is a non-state actor spawned from the corrupt IOC which can‘t even constrain it. The “WADA stakeholder system” is a fairy tale of potential pressure. Meanwhile, the railroading of your fav Carrot marches on.

IMG-9357.png
 
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