09 Del Potro with a serve like Isner/karlovic = Virtually unbeatable
- Thread starter HunterST
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HunterST
Hall of Fame
Ahhhh ,yes. You realize you cannot rebut the arguments I presented which disproved your case. Thus, you are now turning to the "this thread is a joke" method. I really think you just don't understand the point of the thread. It has very little to do with Del Potro himself. It's about the rise of very tall players in tennis.
Yes, there are 10 other guys who would be close to unbeatable with a Karlovic serve as well. BUT (and this is what you don't seem to understand) it's not plausible that they could achieve a serve like that because they don't have the height. I'm merely pointing out that it's possible a player could enter tennis with a huge serve like we've seen from tall guys for decades and also have a top notch ground game like Del Potro. In short, the threads not about Delpo specifically, it's about a shift in the type of players we will see.
hahah! My thread has apparently attracted the worst persuasive writers in the world. You're basically saying that you believe Federer's serve is better than Roddick's despite the fact that you have absolutely no logical reason to believe so. WOW.
What don't you guy's understand? Roddick is a worse all around player than Federer, yet he trumps him in every serve statistic. That means Roddick's serve is so good it's making up that gap in play.
If you guys DO NOT think that Roddick's serve is better, then you're telling me that you believe Roddick is just an all-round stronger player. I mean, hell, He holds serve more, wins a greater percentage of first serves, and a greater percentage of second serves than Federer, AND he has a WEAKER serve than the Swiss! He must be one hell of a player.
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Manus Domini
Hall of Fame
I'm 17
You haven't mentioned Sampras yet
Sorry, meant says who on that Fed's worse than roddick other than serve
And Sampras has the best serve of all time, or one of them up there with Tilden and Pancho Gonzalez. They'd whip Roddick into form in a serving match anyday
HunterST
Hall of Fame
Alright, YOU need to prove that Federer's serve is better than Roddick's. I've provided a more than sufficient amount of evidence that Roddick's serve is better than Fed's. You've just said "says who?" and "Federer's is better!" with no supporting evidence.
Yes. Sampras has one of the best serves of all time. No, he and Gonzalez would not whip Roddick in a serving match any day. Why do you think Roddick doesn't have placement? He has 200 more aces than Federer despite having less matches. He also has a better 1st serve percentage.
More on topic, Karlovic and Isner have the best placement on the serve of anyone on tour. Their serve speeds are not significantly higher than the other players, but their height allows them to hit crazy angles that produce unreturnable serves.
Manus Domini
Hall of Fame
Fed had 50 aces in one match against Roddick...
and Roddick only has 150 aces more than Fed...
Sampras would go all out near match/break points on his serve, which Roddick wouldn't do. Pancho had a serve (and game) strong enough to force the game to change its rules three times; Roddick never did. He also had a serve above 130/140 mph with a woodie, if I'm not mistaken. Tilden could serve aces at will, and was so confident in his serve he would sometimes give away a set because he wanted to make it interesting and not boring.
If their serves are so great, why aren't they in the top 10? Because power=/=greatness, skill does
HunterST
Hall of Fame
I'm assuming you're not on the debate team.
One match proves absolutely nothing. You really think you can say Federer's serve is better than Roddick's based on the results of ONE match. First of all, it's not a large enough sample size. Second, Roddick's return is nowhere near as consistent as Federer's.
LOL at "Roddick only has 150 more aces than Federer." He also has about 15 (can't remember exactly) less matches than Federer. That pretty much disproves your entire argument. Aren't aces the most telling statistic about a player's serve? Maybe you'd prefer service games won. Too bad, Roddick leads in that as well.
Okay, you completely ignored what I said about Karlovic and Isner. let me bold it so maybe you'll see it this time: Their serve speeds are not significantly higher than the speeds of other players; their height allows them to hit great angles (placement) AND they have great pace
Why are they not in the top 10? BECAUSE THE REST OF THEIR GAME ISN'T GOOD! They've gotten where they are based almost entirely on their serves.
Is this really so hard for you to understand?
Let me give ya another tid bit that thumps your entire argument.
Karlovic, Isner and Roddick are all in the top 8 for most aces in a single season. Federer: nowhere to be seen. In fact, Sampras is 8th, while those 3 are 2nd, 5th, and 7th respectively
Give it up, man.
Manus Domini
Hall of Fame
To me, aces are not the telling point of a serve, it's effectiveness for the rest of your game is. If against a good returner, their serves come back too fast for them, no matter what you say.
and Roddick is higher than Federer in service games won because he has 15 less matches. Those matches make a difference: when you are against more players like Nadal/Murray/Joker, you are more likely to get broken. Then there's the aspect of you saying that serves win service games. If that is the case, why aren't Isner and Karlovic above Federer? Because they rely on their serve too much. A good serve is only as good as the rest of your game.
HunterST
Hall of Fame
So NOW you're saying Federer's serve is better than Roddick's BECAUSE Federer's overall game is better? On what planet does that make sense? We all know Federer is a better player. That's obvious.
LOL, You: "if that's the case, why aren't Isner and Karlovic above Federer?" Bad news, Isner is 3rd in service games won and Roger is fourth. What's more, in your question you admit that Federer's serve isn't as good as Karlovic or Isners.
Alright so according to you, Federer's serve is better than Roddick's because he has more matches and a percentage of Service games won near that of Roddick's, right? Now, you also admit that Isner's serve is better than Federer's. Well, Roddick has a higher percentage of service games won than Isner AND Roddick has MORE matches than Isner! Therefore, by your standards Roddick is superior to Isner and Isner's serve is better than Federer's.
When you say "a good serve is only as good as the rest of your game" you've 100% changed your argument. You were saying that Federer had better placement than Roddick and, thus, his serve was more effective. I've disproved that, so now you're saying that your overall game is more important. OBVIOUSLY!! You're now agreeing with me. The discussion is NOT about who holds serve the best, it's about who has the better SERVE. Roddick hold serve just as much as Federer despite having less game.
In the name of all that is good, can't you just admit that Roddick has ONE stroke that is better than Federer's? How does Roddick lead in every serve stat if his serve is not better? Are you saying Roddick has a better forehand than Roger?
Just because you like Federer better does NOT mean he has a better serve. Try to be a little more objective.
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TennisFan3
Talk Tennis Guru
While Delpo's serve is GREAT, there is STILL a lot of room for it to become better still. With a higher ball toss, any coach would say that it would increase 15-20% in speed and give access to more angles. There was also an article in the press that Delpo and his coach were working on that.
That's the SCARY thing about Delpo: The fact that we was FAR away from his prime, when he took down the Fed at the UsOpen. It was easy to see that his movement, endurance would get MUCH better with time, as he grew older/stronger and trained more. His serve would also, undoubtedly, become pacier.
I think Delpo could have taken (perhaps still can take) the game to some new heights as Fed/Nadal have. USOpen 2009 pre-prime Delpo was almost as good as Fed/Nadal. A prime Delpo could blow everyone away - Fed included. Unlike a lot of other BIG hitters, Del Potro possesses the mental strength of a champion. He's only second to Nadal/Fed in this aspect.
single_handed_champion
Professional
2004 Scottsdale Spadea with a serve like Karlovic + forehand like Federer + backhand of Nalbandian + mentality and movement of Nadal = virtually unbeatable.
Manus Domini
Hall of Fame
HunterST
Hall of Fame
Yeeeeah. This was your first post in the thread. No one had discussed Federer or Roddick's serve at that point. But yeah, I'm sure you posted it as a joke and never believed it.
HunterST
Hall of Fame
None of those posts indicate you didn't believe your statements.
Manus Domini
Hall of Fame
fact is I do. I don't need to prove the fact that I believe in something :roll:
HunterST
Hall of Fame
So now you're admitting that you do believe that Federer's serve is better than Roddick's?
Manus Domini
Hall of Fame
No the opposite, sorry mistyped
HunterST
Hall of Fame
I dunno... Roger hit like 50 aces in that Wimbledon final :???:
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N
NadalAgassi
Guest
If Raonic develops into a 2-4 slam winner who has a blip appearance at #1 it will be incredible enough. For all we know he might never win a slam or ever make the top 5. He will never become anywhere near "unbeatable" thus will not be someone to prove your flawed theory correct.
HunterST
Hall of Fame
You really don't understand the post, do you? The point was that we had seen two breeds of tall players. Ones with big serves and crap groundstrokes and ones like Cillic and Delpo with good groundies but only above average serves.
I theorized that eventually there would be a player with both. Milos Ranoic could very well be such a player.
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