100+ mph TW club

pabletion said:
J, why do u use yourself as a reference??
Click to expand...

Well, because I know what it feels like, in whatever thing I am talking about using myself as a reference, because I already have the pics cut out of the videos for my own analysis, because most of my videos are taken from the same angle as other posters so the observation point is the same.

If I say something, and you see what my serve looks like, then you can determine if you want to listen to my point of view, or ignore me, or tell me to **** off.

I think it is really lame that so many people will post a video, or picture of Federer or Roddick, and say "Just do this.". And you have no idea if this is coming from some 12 year old fanboy or a 70 year old man who has never hit a serve over 60mph in his 60 years of playing.

Now, my serve isn't perfect, nor is it world class, (Ya, I have played guys with world class serves, and know that they have stuff that I don't) and I don't want to give that impression. However, I am always looking to improve it, and so am pretty familiar with examining other motions. So maybe someone will ask me something about myself, and it leads me to look into something I wouldn't otherwise think of, which is an added bonus. But it is bigger than most people I have played in my life. So at least you know the guy you are talking to has hit 125+mph.

I really hate giving unsolicited advice, so I always give the disclaimer that you can tell me to **** off, but it looks like the kid is struggling, and if I can help him, then why not show him something. Pretty obvious that he has already looked at a video or breakdown of Roddick.

Oh, and for the record, I think that USA Today breakdown of Roddick's serve sucks.

J
 
J011yroger said:
If I say something, and you see what my serve looks like, then you can determine if you want to listen to my point of view, or ignore me, or tell me to **** off.

I think it is really lame that so many people will post a video, or picture of Federer or Roddick, and say "Just do this.". And you have no idea if this is coming from some 12 year old fanboy or a 70 year old man who has never hit a serve over 60mph in his 60 years of playing.

Now, my serve isn't perfect, nor is it world class,

Oh, and for the record, I think that USA Today breakdown of Roddick's serve sucks.

J
Click to expand...

First off, you dont need to be a world class player to be able to give good advice, and even know what the hell youre talking about. Its pretty obvious 99% of us here on the forum are very far away from being world class players, BUT that doesnt mean theres people here who dont know what they are talking about when they hand advice (i.e. you).

My point is, if you know your strokes are flawed, then why tell a struggling kid 'do like I do', instead of talking about a Federer, a Roddick, etc who have practically perfect technique, and SHOWING the strugglin kid things he is missing while looking at that footage. I probably will never have a technique near that of the pros, but I sure as heck can point out many things they do that could help others, even though I struggle to imitate them myself. Isnt that what its all about? Trying to play like the pros? not just for the fun of it, but because they have achieved a superb technique themselves.

I didnt mean your advice was wrong (on the contrary, you do seem like a guy who knows his stuff), but it was just weird to see you posted pics of yourself when you still have a lot of work to do.

I didnt even read the USA TODAY breakdown, by the way, but just the frame by frame of Roddicks serve was worth it, being able to watch and pause at any point of the motion. Im sure you'll agree its much more useful than you own pics.
 
J011yroger said:
Roddickace,

I don't know if you have a coach, or if you are looking for advice. But have you experimented with serving while holding the racquet all the way down at the bottom, even with your pinky hanging off the bottom of the racquet?

Also, you are throwing your shoulders open way, way too early, so you are not getting full racquet drop.

You have already flown open at the point of maximum racquet drop, so your shoulder rotation adds nothing.

Me:

fu3t7d.jpg


f237kx.jpg


You:

2i9sgeh.jpg


oscok8.jpg



J
Click to expand...

THANK YOU! I always knew there was a timing issue somewhere as my serve looked kind of weird. But I couldn't pinpoint what the problem was. Should I attempt to mmake a conscious effort to, sort of, delay my shoulder rotation? Or is there a trick to this?
 
RoddickAce said:
THANK YOU! I always knew there was a timing issue somewhere as my serve looked kind of weird. But I couldn't pinpoint what the problem was. Should I attempt to mmake a conscious effort to, sort of, delay my shoulder rotation? Or is there a trick to this?
Click to expand...

One thing that has helped me a lot in this issue is trying to keep my throwing arm up longer, in my case (and yours) the left arm. Your motion is not bad, in my opinion, but maybe you set up a little bit too open in your stance. You could try and close your feet a little bit and this will help you turn your hips and shoulders more. Look at most of the pros serves of today, theres a "new" move a lot of them have, including Roddick, where they not only keep their tossing arm up (and their tossing shoulder), but they even pull it back a bit more, kinda like covering their lower left cheek with their shoulder. Its my guess that this produces a greater spring like effect, cause theyre holding their upper body rotation even longer. Just like a spring, the longer you hold your upper body rotation, the faster the release will be.

My opinion, from your vids, is that you lack more rotation, possibly your stance has something to do with it but also yeah, you can try consciously to hold your rotation a bit longer.
 
RoddickAce said:
THANK YOU! I always knew there was a timing issue somewhere as my serve looked kind of weird. But I couldn't pinpoint what the problem was. Should I attempt to mmake a conscious effort to, sort of, delay my shoulder rotation? Or is there a trick to this?
Click to expand...

Yea, think about staying sideways longer, and direct your energy UP, instead of forward. If you focus on throwing your racquet UP then forward will come naturally as a result. Most often people direct their energy forward into the service box, when it should be directed up at the ball.

J
 
pabletion said:
One thing that has helped me a lot in this issue is trying to keep my throwing arm up longer, in my case (and yours) the left arm. Your motion is not bad, in my opinion, but maybe you set up a little bit too open in your stance. You could try and close your feet a little bit and this will help you turn your hips and shoulders more. Look at most of the pros serves of today, theres a "new" move a lot of them have, including Roddick, where they not only keep their tossing arm up (and their tossing shoulder), but they even pull it back a bit more, kinda like covering their lower left cheek with their shoulder. Its my guess that this produces a greater spring like effect, cause theyre holding their upper body rotation even longer. Just like a spring, the longer you hold your upper body rotation, the faster the release will be.

My opinion, from your vids, is that you lack more rotation, possibly your stance has something to do with it but also yeah, you can try consciously to hold your rotation a bit longer.
Click to expand...

J011yroger said:
Yea, think about staying sideways longer, and direct your energy UP, instead of forward. If you focus on throwing your racquet UP then forward will come naturally as a result. Most often people direct their energy forward into the service box, when it should be directed up at the ball.

J
Click to expand...

Thanks guys, I've always improved little by little in my shots, and then suddenly, someone will spot a major issue in my technique, and then that shot improves dramatically. I hope fixing this timing issue will be that "breakthrough" technical adjustment, so that I can finally break 100 mph one day.
 
100+ serve

I can hit over 100mph and place my shots but I know I can do it faster. I tried posting over at FYB but nobody there provided me advice other than keeping up my tossing arm longer and improving my toss. I know I am foot faulting on just about every serve and have since fixed that. When I started keeping my tossing arm up longer I also increased my knee bend and the ball feels like it leaves the racquet cleaner and with more velocity. Working on my toss has greatly increased my consistency that I can now hit my flat serve about 75%. I haven't been out with the camera since I made this video but I want to work on this serve as much as possible before filming again. I think with my height I just naturally have the ability to hit the ball fast so I think I can break over 110mph with some adjustments. I've hit 109 before but I didn't have a camera with me when I did it. Anybody have any advice for me? Thanks in advance!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95nlhAJVb0Q

(next time I'll place the camera behind me)
 
natelee123 said:
Anybody have any advice for me? Thanks in advance!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95nlhAJVb0Q

(next time I'll place the camera behind me)
Click to expand...

Hi Nate,
The advice you got over at FYB is spot on. If you fix the toss, there is a good chance the rest will fall into place. As is, your toss and left arm position is robbing you energy and disrupting the kinetic chain. It also hinders your shoulder rotation through contact with the ball. Do you hit the top of the net often? Do your serves turn into slice serves unexpectedly?
I like your abbreviated take back. This clip here will show you where you want to be with the left arm and placement of your left shoulder. Notice how high the left shoulder is at the top of the ball toss.
There is a good chance your timing will be off for awhile, but in the long run..if you fix the toss and left arm..you will have a much better serve.
This is a great example of the abbreviated take back like yours:
http://www.hi-techtennis.com/serve/martin_serve.php
If you want more advice, post in the tips section
 
Fedace said:
^^If you can regularly hit 100+ MPH, you would be Regularly playing in the Futures or challenger level or Division 1 level tennis. Does all these players qualify to say that ???
Click to expand...

Not true. One of my hitting partners hits over 100mph consistently and he is just a 4.5 rec player.
 
just measured myself for the first time today. Hit a bunch in the high 90's a couple 100's and one at 106. I think once i'm in the groove I could reach 115 on a good day, but not certain.

Will try to get some vid footage soon.
 
so I was really cruising today and decided to measure the speed. And it was over 125mph, I kid you not, I think the speedo is reliable as i have used it for a couple of years now. I immediately toned it down for fear of injuring my colleague.

And I only drive like this on the Autobahn, and would never advocate breaking any speed limits, its just not safe.
 
I served ONCE at 194 kmh...
but i have several doubts about it...
And no...i can't hit serve constantly over 100mph...so i'm out of this group..
 
ProgressoR said:
so I was really cruising today and decided to measure the speed. And it was over 125mph, I kid you not, I think the speedo is reliable as i have used it for a couple of years now. I immediately toned it down for fear of injuring my colleague.

And I only drive like this on the Autobahn, and would never advocate breaking any speed limits, its just not safe.
Click to expand...

Why so slow? Troubles with the mechanicals popping up? :D
 
ProgressoR said:
so I was really cruising today and decided to measure the speed. And it was over 125mph, I kid you not, I think the speedo is reliable as i have used it for a couple of years now. I immediately toned it down for fear of injuring my colleague.

And I only drive like this on the Autobahn, and would never advocate breaking any speed limits, its just not safe.
Click to expand...

Hey Progresso$ ... so, tell me ... what kind of speed do you get on your second serve (or should I say second car) ...
 
Davis937 said:
Hmmm ... don't you need to serve on a court ... and ... I'm thinking that the serve needs to land in the service box to count ...
Click to expand...

I dunno if its just me but I find it easier to hit harder into a targeted area (ie service box) than just plain into the open/fence

I'll also get some footage too soon. Just need to customize my new YT Prestige mid to my preferred specs.

Does it count if I use the online camera frame rate speed calculator? :D
 
Davis937 said:
Hmmm ... don't you need to serve on a court ... and ... I'm thinking that the serve needs to land in the service box to count ...
Click to expand...

I don't have a radar gun myself so I don't know. I guess I could make a video and use the converter. But that video is proof I could get 100+.
 
Had the day off from work Friday. Took videos of most of my various serves.

Most of them felt pretty good, the flat one just isn't right lately, will have to practice it some more this week. It has been kind of lame for a the last 2 weeks, but I was cracking it in a match two weekends ago.

Stupid game, why can't everything work all the time.

I try to hit all of my serves off the same toss, straight in front of me. What I lose in being able to hit a bigger wide angle, I figure that I make up for with disguise and it being much easier on my lower back.

Anyhow, for everything but the warmup I shot some in regular speed and some in 210FPS high speed. Came out very nicely.

Warming up serves, starting slow and building up speed to about 70% effort. I hit against the wall for 5 or 10 mins to break a sweat and then did this serve warmup. Suppose I am getting smart in my old age, or just don't want my arm to fall off.

http://vimeo.com/13793414

Hard Topspin serves, my bread and butter serve, and my most often used first serve, unless I am really feeling the flat ball, I mainly use this one. If the bomb is working then I use them about 40%/40% with a few slices and slow kickers mixed in.

http://vimeo.com/13793424

Topspin 2nd serves. My primary 2nd serve, basically the same as the hard topspin serves but more spin, less ballspeed, and I would hope less net clearance, but it doesn't seem to work out that way. Sometimes I catch a little more of the ball than I intended and come out with a 110+ 2nd serve, which is awesome when it goes in, and sucks when it doesn't.

http://vimeo.com/13793436

Hard Slice Serves. Really, I should practice and use this more often. It is a devastating serve, and the only reason I am not more consistent with it is because I don't use it nearly often enough. I think the first slow motion one was particularly nasty.

http://vimeo.com/13793486

Kick Serves. Even slower and spinnier than my normal 2nd serve. Higher net clearance. I use this a lot on clay and in doubles. I can also hit it so that it breaks to my right/returner's left after the bounce.

http://vimeo.com/13793645

Flat Serves. Wasn't really feeling this one today, but hit a few good ones. Kind of one of those things that either works or doesn't depending on the day. Much better for me indoors, as sometimes I struggle with depth perception outdoors, and the spin serves give me more room for error.

http://vimeo.com/13793938

J
 
Because my dad said I didn't get Andre's (the guy coaching me) permission, but I guess it's ok since he's not in the video.
 
darthpwner said:
Because my dad said I didn't get Andre's (the guy coaching me) permission, but I guess it's ok since he's not in the video.
Click to expand...

lol....anyways those are really nice kickers some going past 100 i think. I'm curious how you'll do with a continental grip. Most of your serves (idk if you were trying to get 100mph for the first 4min) were around 80-90 i think.

Some of those kickers will do great as second serves. I'd like to see some flatter serves, eastern bh can be used for flat serves too, just be careful of overpronating. I think with flatter serves you can hit 100-110 consistently (consistent as in speed-wise :p)
 
Jaewonnie said:
lol....anyways those are really nice kickers some going past 100 i think. I'm curious how you'll do with a continental grip. Most of your serves (idk if you were trying to get 100mph for the first 4min) were around 80-90 i think.

Some of those kickers will do great as second serves. I'd like to see some flatter serves, eastern bh can be used for flat serves too, just be careful of overpronating. I think with flatter serves you can hit 100-110 consistently (consistent as in speed-wise :p)
Click to expand...

Yeah most of my serves were probably 80-90. I was listening to what Andre wanted me to do. So I was hitting both 1st and 2nd serves. If you turn up the volume you could probably hear him.
 
Ah kk. Well, I think I'm hitting tomorrow. I'll try to post a vid tomorrow. Gonna play with plain leather and see how itll work out. Hopefully I won't throw my brand new prestige....
 
J011yroger said:
Had the day off from work Friday. Took videos of most of my various serves.

Most of them felt pretty good, the flat one just isn't right lately, will have to practice it some more this week. It has been kind of lame for a the last 2 weeks, but I was cracking it in a match two weekends ago.

Stupid game, why can't everything work all the time.

I try to hit all of my serves off the same toss, straight in front of me. What I lose in being able to hit a bigger wide angle, I figure that I make up for with disguise and it being much easier on my lower back.

Anyhow, for everything but the warmup I shot some in regular speed and some in 210FPS high speed. Came out very nicely.

Warming up serves, starting slow and building up speed to about 70% effort. I hit against the wall for 5 or 10 mins to break a sweat and then did this serve warmup. Suppose I am getting smart in my old age, or just don't want my arm to fall off.

http://vimeo.com/13793414

Hard Topspin serves, my bread and butter serve, and my most often used first serve, unless I am really feeling the flat ball, I mainly use this one. If the bomb is working then I use them about 40%/40% with a few slices and slow kickers mixed in.

http://vimeo.com/13793424

Topspin 2nd serves. My primary 2nd serve, basically the same as the hard topspin serves but more spin, less ballspeed, and I would hope less net clearance, but it doesn't seem to work out that way. Sometimes I catch a little more of the ball than I intended and come out with a 110+ 2nd serve, which is awesome when it goes in, and sucks when it doesn't.

http://vimeo.com/13793436

Hard Slice Serves. Really, I should practice and use this more often. It is a devastating serve, and the only reason I am not more consistent with it is because I don't use it nearly often enough. I think the first slow motion one was particularly nasty.

http://vimeo.com/13793486

Kick Serves. Even slower and spinnier than my normal 2nd serve. Higher net clearance. I use this a lot on clay and in doubles. I can also hit it so that it breaks to my right/returner's left after the bounce.

http://vimeo.com/13793645

Flat Serves. Wasn't really feeling this one today, but hit a few good ones. Kind of one of those things that either works or doesn't depending on the day. Much better for me indoors, as sometimes I struggle with depth perception outdoors, and the spin serves give me more room for error.

http://vimeo.com/13793938

J
Click to expand...

I have seen your serving before and thought it was faster. Turns out it was just the inside court effect...

Anyway, not bad, four quick comments:
1) I did not see much (if any) kicks on your "kick serve"
2) your toss is way high, therefore you stop at the trophy pose too long which takes away from a possible extra power. Of course, the power is popular on these boards, but I'd take placement over power any day (Fed serve vs. Roddick for example).
3) I always thought your toss was not enough in front of you, again, limiting you on the possible serve speed
4) Legs...barely any knee bend -- again, looks like you have strong legs and that would help with the speed...
 
dr325i said:
I have seen your serving before and thought it was faster. Turns out it was just the inside court effect...

Anyway, not bad, four quick comments:
1) I did not see much (if any) kicks on your "kick serve"
2) your toss is way high, therefore you stop at the trophy pose too long which takes away from a possible extra power. Of course, the power is popular on these boards, but I'd take placement over power any day (Fed serve vs. Roddick for example).
3) I always thought your toss was not enough in front of you, again, limiting you on the possible serve speed
4) Legs...barely any knee bend -- again, looks like you have strong legs and that would help with the speed...
Click to expand...

Hey man, thanks for the comments. I serve maybe a bit faster inside because it is easier for me to see the ball, and also those videos were of me playing points, so I would go for it more than just practicing with the bucket. Of course everything looks faster inside too (and sounds faster ). So probably some combination of the three.

Re: your four points.

1) Yea, I don't hit that slow looping one that bounces a mile in the air. With non dead balls I'll get at most 6+ feet on a hard court, 7+ on clay. These balls weren't bouncing at all I guess from sitting around for months, so really I was just looking for net clearance. I can assure you that there is a decent amount of action on them, but I def go more for MPH than english.

2) I agree 100%, I have tried to change it, I have tried to shorten my motion, it just doesn't work for me. I just like the long slow windup and high toss too much. I made a decision a few years ago, that I would just accept the fact that I would struggle in wind and bad outdoor conditions (sun, etc.) because I feel so much more comfortable with the slow windup. But if I were advising someone, you are absolutely right, I just can't change it because I am a mentally defective unit.

3) Once again, I agree. Actually I half agree :). It is more comfortable for me to toss closer to the baseline, but I know I serve better when it is more into the court. So if I am concentrating and making a point of it, I will toss into the court, and serve better. If I stop thinking about it, and go into automatic mode, or if I get tight, then it drifts back towards the baseline. It is one of the things that I am trying to pound into my head, when I play matches by taking my time between points and making sure I toss well into the court, and hope it becomes habit, and replaces the other one.

Sometimes when I practice I will have a friend watch from the side, and tell me how far into the court my toss was, and I am always shocked at how little it is.

4) Just looked again, and there isn't terribly much. I am not a big believer in a deep knee bend helping that much, but I am pretty sure mine is usually more. I tweaked my left hamstring Monday night and am still hurting a bit, so maybe that was it? I didn't feel like it was bothering me, but maybe I was subconsciously leery of putting much weight on my left leg?

Or maybe I bend more serving to the Ad court? That seems a little silly though.

What do you think?

Friday:

b7f9mw.jpg


Past matchplay:

51dphf.jpg


rw4da8.jpg


My serve is currently my biggest weapon, and known to be one of the biggest around, but to beat the very best players around, it will have to be bigger and more consistent. So I am pretty sure there is a good amount more room for improvement.

J
 
J011yroger said:
Hey man, thanks for the comments. I serve maybe a bit faster inside because it is easier for me to see the ball, and also those videos were of me playing points, so I would go for it more than just practicing with the bucket. Of course everything looks faster inside too (and sounds faster ). So probably some combination of the three.

Re: your four points.

1) Yea, I don't hit that slow looping one that bounces a mile in the air. With non dead balls I'll get at most 6+ feet on a hard court, 7+ on clay. These balls weren't bouncing at all I guess from sitting around for months, so really I was just looking for net clearance. I can assure you that there is a decent amount of action on them, but I def go more for MPH than english.

2) I agree 100%, I have tried to change it, I have tried to shorten my motion, it just doesn't work for me. I just like the long slow windup and high toss too much. I made a decision a few years ago, that I would just accept the fact that I would struggle in wind and bad outdoor conditions (sun, etc.) because I feel so much more comfortable with the slow windup. But if I were advising someone, you are absolutely right, I just can't change it because I am a mentally defective unit.

3) Once again, I agree. Actually I half agree :). It is more comfortable for me to toss closer to the baseline, but I know I serve better when it is more into the court. So if I am concentrating and making a point of it, I will toss into the court, and serve better. If I stop thinking about it, and go into automatic mode, or if I get tight, then it drifts back towards the baseline. It is one of the things that I am trying to pound into my head, when I play matches by taking my time between points and making sure I toss well into the court, and hope it becomes habit, and replaces the other one.

Sometimes when I practice I will have a friend watch from the side, and tell me how far into the court my toss was, and I am always shocked at how little it is.

4) Just looked again, and there isn't terribly much. I am not a big believer in a deep knee bend helping that much, but I am pretty sure mine is usually more. I tweaked my left hamstring Monday night and am still hurting a bit, so maybe that was it? I didn't feel like it was bothering me, but maybe I was subconsciously leery of putting much weight on my left leg?

Or maybe I bend more serving to the Ad court? That seems a little silly though.

What do you think?

Friday:

b7f9mw.jpg


Past matchplay:

51dphf.jpg


rw4da8.jpg


My serve is currently my biggest weapon, and known to be one of the biggest around, but to beat the very best players around, it will have to be bigger and more consistent. So I am pretty sure there is a good amount more room for improvement.

J
Click to expand...

Looks like you bent more on the bottom pictures...
Your serve is good, no doubt about it. Also your FH and BH are good as I recall...
 
dr325i said:
Looks like you bent more on the bottom pictures...
Your serve is good, no doubt about it. Also your FH and BH are good as I recall...
Click to expand...

The further away from the net I am the better my game is lol.

I have to work so hard on transition game and volleying to make the slightest little improvements, but a point here and there is the difference between winning and losing.

Anyhow, I will wait a couple of weeks and try to get one more round of videos in.

Nice to keep an eye on your motion just to make sure no bad habits creep in. (Like that damn front foot that always wants to move a tiny bit.)

J
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI0WCMlfguE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7kCv9zmshg

Here's a few. The last vid I recorded on Canon's fast frame rate, which was actually the same frame rate except its definition was worse....
So....that was lame.
The first vid, all the serves are out :lol:
The second, all are in though. All the serves from the second video count about 14 frames from hit to bounce.

And I can critique my own technique lol...I know its not too good.
 
Jaewonnie said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI0WCMlfguE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7kCv9zmshg

Here's a few. The last vid I recorded on Canon's fast frame rate, which was actually the same frame rate except its definition was worse....
So....that was lame.
The first vid, all the serves are out :lol:
The second, all are in though. All the serves from the second video count about 14 frames from hit to bounce.

And I can critique my own technique lol...I know its not too good.
Click to expand...

Your serve reminds me of Wawrinka.
 
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