Respect @Sport
User name checks out, for sure. One of few Rafa fans that's also a real tennis fan, rarity on this board, stick around bro...
11-7
- Thread starter ND-13
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User name checks out, for sure. One of few Rafa fans that's also a real tennis fan, rarity on this board, stick around bro...
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Razer
G.O.A.T.
It tells us that they met more often on Clay. Of course Rafa is a great player but have you wondered why he has a winning h2h at slams vs almost everyone ? The simple answer is clay, he meets players most of the time on that surface where he will win, hence the h2h dominance.
In the end that does not matter, we look at titles before we do for H2H and IF title count is more then that is the only thing which matters.
It tells me that Djokovic at RG was much greater than Nadal at AO, because he reached the business end at RG about five times as much as Rafa at AO.
Lauren_Girl'
Hall of Fame
I can discuss a few things
1) I wanna know why we only hear about the Slam H2H for Djokodal. For any other H2H in tennis history, we watch the overall H2H. Except for these 2... Why? Where do we draw the line? Why can't we count the "Majors H2H" adding Olympic Games and WTF? And keep in mind the H2H was 5-0 before Djokovic became Djokovic. Not saying those first 5 matches aren't important, but it does skew it a little bit. It's like saying Medvedev dominates the H2H vs Sinner now, ignoring the fact that Medvedev won the first 6 matches when Sinner was still the rookie version of the player he became in 2023/2024. Oh wait, Djokovic has a losing H2H in Grand Slams against Safin, Grosjean, Coria, Ancic and Goldstein. Does it mean these players are better?
2) 9-7 in complete matches. IMO the ATP website shouldn't count walkovers and withdrawals in the H2H. Counting RG 2006 and Wimbledon 2007 as big significant wins for Nadal is pretty laughable.
3) Clay represents 25% of the Grand Slams. 56% of these 18 Slam matches were in RG. Do the math,....
.IMO, the Slam H2H would only be relevant if they also met 10 times in AO, 10 times in Wimbledon and 10 times in USO. When you have 10 matches in Nadal's pet Slam and only 2 matches in Djokovic's, does a 9-7 H2H really show anything significant?
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James_Bolt
Rookie
Nothing new under the sun.
The pattern of Djokovic haters has been very clear and repetitive over years:
1- Check for any stat where Djokovic has a losing record and ignore the vast majority of stats where he has a winning record (as if any player can have winning record on every possible stats).
2- Diminish his accomplishement on the stats where he has a winning records by using these tactics : the competiton was weaker, the competition was injured, the competition was past prime, the draw was easier, etc
3- Promote subjective and non-quantifiable things like aura, elegance, fighting spirit, popularity, etc
Hitman
Bionic Poster
I watch it, because I just love tennis. All tennis. I am watching 250s year round, as evident about the matches I speak about here.
I also acknowledge that it is a big title. And I completely understand that many players value it very much, including Djokovic. I totally get it, and I hope for his sake he gets it.
However, if you were to tell me that that I could pick between Djokovic winning an Olympic Gold Medal and another Wimbledon title to get to 25, I would not hesitate to pick that one last slam. I would much rather he had won Wimbledon this year, than SOG.
Of course I will always cheer him on, but that has always been my personal stance.
KingCarlitos
Hall of Fame
When a H2H is as close as 29-31 there are too many variables to simply proclaim Djokovic superior due to the H2H, If Alcaraz beats Djokovic again and their H2H becomes 4-3 then that doesn't automatically make Carlos greater since Novak is so oldovic.
itrium84
Hall of Fame
I don't subscribe to the "only title count matters" view, although I find it very important
messiahrobins
G.O.A.T.
Love your passion. Totally get where you coming from. It will surprise you, but i hope Novak wins Gold as he wants it so much and i think he deserves it.
I actually dont watch 250 events or 500's much but i love tennis and i think i should be watching those events more really.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
BauerAlmeida
Legend
Well, fortunately, he beat him at every slam, the YEC and the Olympics.
Good for him , but still 7-11.
He should be happy though as he was 0-5 i think at one time
BauerAlmeida
Legend
Hardly relevant with over half the matches played at RG. It's a pretty expected difference given that fact. Nadal leads in 2 slams and Djokovic in 2.
If that is how we are going to look at it , Djokovic leads titles in only 1 major , while Fed leads in 2 of them
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Fed is the GOAT at 2 of the 4 slams!
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
Good point, Djokovic Dovotee!
BauerAlmeida
Legend
So we look at overall , when only it suits us ??
If we want to break things by majors, then let us stop talking about 24 majors won and see who has most titles at each of the 4 majors
BauerAlmeida
Legend
Lol, the majors are played 4 times a year by everyone.
The H2H is not, which is the point precisely, they didn't play a somewhat similar amount of matches at every slam. They played at one slam more than at the other 3 combined, that's why it hardly has any significant relevance. I'm not expecting them to play every exact amount at every slam, but it's ridiculously skewed to the point they have more matches at RG than at all the other majors put together.
At one point, Murray was leading Federer in the H2H but Federer was winning 100% of the matches at slams, including finals in straight sets at two different slams. Then he beat him in a slam final at another slam. There, making a distinction between H2H and slam H2H was a valid point.
ME TOO!
NONSENSE!
RS
Bionic Poster
Not everyone thinks he is the GOAT at USO. Sampras and Connors get a lot of shouts even by Fed fans surprisingly.
How many matches would Fed have to lose before being WB goat taken away?
Who did Federer beat at US? He's best known at US for blowing two matches while holding double match points.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
He has more titles. You could say he’s Co GOAT at us open as it’s equal with Sampras and Connors.
He has the most Wimbledon titles so he’s the best in grass. As if you say Djokovic due to 3 > 1 then we basically boosting up Alcaraz over Djokovic too due 0 < 2.
H2H only matters more when titles are tied.
It doesn’t matter who Fed beat but he won more titles or same amount as anybody me else. You can only beat what’s there.
Even if Alcaraz beat’s up pathetic competition it still counts the same as when Fed, Nadal or Djokovic won them.
At US, Fed won 5 consecutive titles against the never-do-well and one has-been, and then endured fourteen fruitless chase for the sixth. Nobody in his right mind could anoint him the USA goat.
Incidentally, Federer endured 4 streaks against Djokovic in the four GS venues:
AO: 4-match losing streak, started at AO '08, when Federer was age disadvantaged 27.
RG: one match
WB: the famous 3-match legend buster
US: 3-match losing streak, when Federer was ripe old age at 29.
So, you see, Djokovic didn't take advantage of ripe old Federer to start winning at the slams. In one, Federer was only 27 when the streak began; in the other, he was only 29.
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