12 old kid vs older man

martini1

Hall of Fame
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q81mfGK9Bw0

The kid lost 6-1,4-6,6-2

What do you guys think? NTRP? Both players technique, strength or flaws?

This is a QF match so the kid won at least 2 rounds vs adults. I saw him the night before. He was pretty solid. His serving is not his strength but quite consistent. The other opponent from the previous match got cramps at the end and the kid won 2-6,6-4,6-3.
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
The kid consistently hits harder and deeper than the man does. Probably why he's more tired, less consistent and make more UEs. His bh is always to the middle.

Older man looks more match savvy. He hits shallower, builds angle slowly and he could pull the trigger when he has opportunity.

Give the kid a year or two. He's gonna leave the man in the dust by sheer power.
 

G&G

New User
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q81mfGK9Bw0

The kid lost 6-1,4-6,6-2

What do you guys think? NTRP? Both players technique, strength or flaws?

This is a QF match so the kid won at least 2 rounds vs adults. I saw him the night before. He was pretty solid. His serving is not his strength but quite consistent. The other opponent from the previous match got cramps at the end and the kid won 2-6,6-4,6-3.
Why are you asking this? don't you see that they both are very good players. the older guy is either a coach or a former player (no matter what ranking he had) who was trained professionaly. they both use all sorts of shots, so, in my opinion, there is no point to rate them with NTRP.
 

martini1

Hall of Fame
Why are you asking this? don't you see that they both are very good players. the older guy is either a coach or a former player (no matter what ranking he had) who was trained professionaly. they both use all sorts of shots, so, in my opinion, there is no point to rate them with NTRP.
You are new. It ain't TT without a dose of NTRP. :lol:
 

martini1

Hall of Fame
The kid consistently hits harder and deeper than the man does. Probably why he's more tired, less consistent and make more UEs. His bh is always to the middle.

Older man looks more match savvy. He hits shallower, builds angle slowly and he could pull the trigger when he has opportunity.

Give the kid a year or two. He's gonna leave the man in the dust by sheer power.
Yes, the older man could be some former pro/semi pro player. He does S&V quite well too. He also got a much more powerful serve, although I did not see a lot of crazy placements. The kid could read his 2nd serve pretty well.

The older man also got some temper. He hit a ball out of the court one time on purpose at the end of the 2nd set. He also yelled at the kid a few times on various things. Once for the kid calling the serve out. Could be a habit of rec playing cos the kid doesn't play enough matches.
 

G&G

New User
You are new. It ain't TT without a dose of NTRP. :lol:
i am not new, i just post very rarely. english is not my native language, so i am a bit shy:).

It was always strange for me when someone here on TT so reriously contemplates whether someone is 4.5 or 5 and etc. what is the point? at the end of the day i think it matters whether you can keep the ball in play or not, you win or lose. i know players that can't keep the ball in play during the practices but everything changes during the matches and vice versa..
 

martini1

Hall of Fame
This is in Hong Kong. The kid is Chinese and the older man speaks Spanish I think, but with a Russian sounding last name.
 

martini1

Hall of Fame
i am not new, i just post very rarely. english is not my native language, so i am a bit shy:).

It was always strange for me when someone here on TT so reriously contemplates whether someone is 4.5 or 5 and etc. what is the point? at the end of the day i think it matters whether you can keep the ball in play or not, you win or lose. i know players that can't keep the ball in play during the practices but everything changes during the matches and vice versa..
LOL I think you take it a little too seriously. I totally agree with you, the rating is not the point. However we keyboard world class coaches of TT need stuff to talk about. ;)
 

Lukhas

Legend
Nice highlights. I haven't seen many kids this young play this well TBH. Granted he keeps this up without trouble, it'll be incredible in few years. Notice how the kid seems sponsored? There's Babolat's stencil on the strings. The yellow strings reminds me of PHT.
 

forthegame

Hall of Fame
Both very good players. The older gentleman is clearly very passionate and felt the pressure of playing a child.
Enjoyable watch, thanks OP.
 

rufus_smith

Professional
Good find. The high level of play surprised me. Not many errors. I was thinking where is rec tennis played like this? Then you found the guy had an ATP ranking. I liked when the kid ran down the dropshot from way back for a winner. The disputed serve looked out to me but who knows? Seems NTRP 4.5 or higher rating for older guy at least.
 
T

Topslice

Guest
Good find. The high level of play surprised me. Not many errors. I was thinking where is rec tennis played like this? Then you found the guy had an ATP ranking. I liked when the kid ran down the dropshot from way back for a winner. The disputed serve looked out to me but who knows? Seems NTRP 4.5 or higher rating for older guy at least.
eh 5.5 or higher at least....What are you smoking? The guy plays wins Davis Cup matches, wins futures matches and has an ATP ranking.
 

martini1

Hall of Fame
And the winner last yr was Philip King, Vania's brother. He is still in the tournament and likely to win again.
 

TennisCJC

Legend
Open Level for both players. If the "kid" is truly 12 yo, he would likely compete well on the national level. The older guy is very solid.

I am surprised the kid even won 1 set because he looks like he was getting pushed around pretty badly. Kid has no pace on serve and just throws in a lot of topspin rally balls to wait for errors. Old guy waits for an opportunity and then takes the point with a good forcing shot.

If I had to guess ntrp, I would say 5.5 for both especially if you are talking about within their age groups.
 

martini1

Hall of Fame
Open Level for both players. If the "kid" is truly 12 yo, he would likely compete well on the national level. The older guy is very solid.

I am surprised the kid even won 1 set because he looks like he was getting pushed around pretty badly. Kid has no pace on serve and just throws in a lot of topspin rally balls to wait for errors. Old guy waits for an opportunity and then takes the point with a good forcing shot.

If I had to guess ntrp, I would say 5.5 for both especially if you are talking about within their age groups.
In the middle of the match it was an UE fest for the man. The boy took advantage of it. You are right that the boy's serve is not a weapon, but he hit some good rally balls. He runs a lot I/o and the lefties advantage is not really there.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Cool vid.
Looks like older man is more hitting with the kid than trying to beat him. Obviously, I wish I could hit groundies like him.
Kid is excellent, possibly No. 1 material here in the US. He looks really strong for a 12 year old, and only his serves show his age. OTOH, I've seen 11 year olds, boys and girls, with much more ballspeed on top/slice serves. But not nearly the consistency of groundstrokes.
 
T

Topslice

Guest
Cool vid.
Looks like older man is more hitting with the kid than trying to beat him. Obviously, I wish I could hit groundies like him.
Kid is excellent, possibly No. 1 material here in the US. He looks really strong for a 12 year old, and only his serves show his age. OTOH, I've seen 11 year olds, boys and girls, with much more ballspeed on top/slice serves. But not nearly the consistency of groundstrokes.
Hes not 12, he is 14.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
There ya go then. He seems very good for 12, and in US Jr.12's, would be highly rated.
At Jr. 14, he'd be highly rated, but maybe not at the top.
Man, I'd like to have old fart's groundies.
 
T

Topslice

Guest
There ya go then. He seems very good for 12, and in US Jr.12's, would be highly rated.
At Jr. 14, he'd be highly rated, but maybe not at the top.
Man, I'd like to have old fart's groundies.
Guy is 34, not an old fart. Stop saying that.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Do you remember when you were 14?
34 IS an old fart, to the kid.
A group of us in high school, the football team, made a pact (jokingly of course), to kill ourselves when and if we turned 25, because life as an old fart was not worth living. 3 of the guys did it.
I'm 64, look YOUNGER than the old fart, but sadly, play worse from the baseline.
 
Very good players. The man is winning because he's more match savvy than the kid from his years of playing. In a year or two, the kid will overpower the man. I think they are about NTRP 6.0 even though I don't think either one of them cares about NTRP.
 
T

Topslice

Guest
Do you remember when you were 14?
34 IS an old fart, to the kid.
A group of us in high school, the football team, made a pact (jokingly of course), to kill ourselves when and if we turned 25, because life as an old fart was not worth living. 3 of the guys did it.
I'm 64, look YOUNGER than the old fart, but sadly, play worse from the baseline.
When I get older losing my hair,
Many years from now,
Will you still be sending me a valentine
Birthday greetings bottle of wine?

If I'd been out till quarter to three
Would you lock the door,
Will you still need me, will you still feed me,
When I'm sixty-four?

oo oo oo oo oo oo oo oooo
You'll be older too, (ah ah ah ah ah)

And if you say the word,
I could stay with you.

I could be handy mending a fuse
When your lights have gone.
You can knit a sweater by the fireside
Sunday mornings go for a ride.

Doing the garden, digging the weeds,
Who could ask for more?
Will you still need me, will you still feed me,
When I'm sixty-four?

Every summer we can rent a cottage
In the Isle of Wight, if it's not too dear
We shall scrimp and save
Grandchildren on your knee
Vera, Chuck, and Dave

Send me a postcard, drop me a line,
Stating point of view.
Indicate precisely what you mean to say
Yours sincerely, Wasting Away.

Give me your answer, fill in a form
Mine for evermore
Will you still need me, will you still feed me,
When I'm sixty-four?
 

PhrygianDominant

Hall of Fame
Very good players. The man is winning because he's more match savvy than the kid from his years of playing. In a year or two, the kid will overpower the man. I think they are about NTRP 6.0 even though I don't think either one of them cares about NTRP.
I was going to say that the older gentleman has quite a bit more power. His shots were more penetrating and combined pace and spin. The younger one place his shots well, and played with lots of spin, but seemed to be scrambling in a lot of points.

This should all be obvious because one look at their figures will tell you who is stronger.

It will be interesting to see what happens as the boy fills in his frame.
 
G

guitarplayer

Guest
Kid has the typical super western forehand grip, big windup, heavy topspin. The 34 year old looks to have an eastern grip, More efficient compact stroke, much less topspin, much faster paced heavy penetrating forehand. Both are great players!
 

martini1

Hall of Fame
Moz, how did you find out who they were? The guy looks much older than the ITF website, sure it's the same guy?
I can confirm Moz's findings are correct. It's the same guy. His profile pic is professionally done with good lighting (and also perhaps taken a couple of yrs back).

The kid is 14. My bad. I didn't bother to search his profile. I just heard a couple spectators saying he is 12. Anyhow the age difference is still huge whether he is 12 or 14. He got a little bit intimidated, but on most of the part he handled himself quite well. A coach told me last night he practice pretty much every day of the week. It is extremely difficult to have kids doing that in places like Hong Kong.

Glad that you guys enjoyed the video!
 
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West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
OP, phenomenal find. Thanks for sharing.

Like a lot of juniors these days, kid is a little to infatuated with spin; when he starts flattening out some serves and FHs he'll get even better. Older guy's inside out FH was his go to shot to take over points.

And I think the older guy got mad because the kid called the serve wide and influenced the line caller. I wouldn't be happy either.

OP, that's not Victoria Park. What is the name of the facility?

Did anyone notice the singles only court to the left of theirs?
 

RoddickAce

Hall of Fame
The 14 year old is like a copy of djokovic, from the serve, forehand, reverse forehand, backhand and even down to the hair.
 

Fugazi

Professional
Good find. The high level of play surprised me. Not many errors. I was thinking where is rec tennis played like this? Then you found the guy had an ATP ranking. I liked when the kid ran down the dropshot from way back for a winner. The disputed serve looked out to me but who knows? Seems NTRP 4.5 or higher rating for older guy at least.
At the very least 5.0 for the kid, and most likely 5.5 for the older dude. 4.5s would barely win games vs these guys.
 

martini1

Hall of Fame
OP, phenomenal find. Thanks for sharing.

Like a lot of juniors these days, kid is a little to infatuated with spin; when he starts flattening out some serves and FHs he'll get even better. Older guy's inside out FH was his go to shot to take over points.

And I think the older guy got mad because the kid called the serve wide and influenced the line caller. I wouldn't be happy either.

OP, that's not Victoria Park. What is the name of the facility?

Did anyone notice the singles only court to the left of theirs?
Thx. I'm actually the one who shot the video!

The older guy got robbed a few points by bad calls. No doubt. But he also deserves a couple violation calls in that game (but didn't) as well.

As it said in the title of the vid, the venue is the CRC in HK, blocks away from Victoria Park. You can google map it and see. Sounds like you know HK.

Yes, they have a singles only court in the middle. I think because they don't have enough space to paint a full court.
 

mightyrick

Legend
At the very least 5.0 for the kid, and most likely 5.5 for the older dude. 4.5s would barely win games vs these guys.
Um, you guys don't give this kid enough credit. That kid will double bagel any 4.5 I've ever seen in any USTA ladder or tourney I've ever participated in.
 

HughJars

Banned
It's hilarious how much the kid looks, behaves, moves and hits like Djokovic. Seriously.
Meh, really I dont know why people would criticise kids out there for this kind of stuff, other than because they're jealous. Good on him I say, he has a great positive role model. If he can be half the player Djokovic is he's going to have a great career.

Federer grew up trying to emulate his heroes, so did a mountain of other superstars.
 
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