12-point set tiebreak

[Cindysphinx]

In Northern Virginia, the local league rules address set tiebreaks as follows:

6. Match play shall be the best 2 out of 3 sets using regular scoring and a 12 point set tiebreak at six games all in the first 2 sets. In the event of split sets, a match tie break (first team to 10 by 2 points) in lieu of the third set shall be played. The Coman tiebreak procedure will be used for all tie breaks. . . .

Twelve-point set tiebreak. What does that mean? I thought it means first team to 12, winning by two, wins the set. This understanding seems consistent with the match tie break description in the rules.

Well, I was at a match the other day, and I said the set tie break requires you play to 12 and must win by two. Everyone told me I was wrong. "12 point set tiebreak," they patiently explained means the first to 7 and winning by two takes the set. The number "12" is used because 7 plus 5 is 12.

What the heck? What am I missing here? If that's the way it worked, then you wouldn't talk about a 10-point match tiebreak. You'd call it an 18-point tiebreak. I gotta tell ya, I felt like a drooling moron who couldn't be trusted to comprehend a simple rule.

Well, tell me the truth. Am I a drooling moron?

 

[Joeyg]

A 12 point set tie break is indeed a "regular" tiebreak, first to seven by two. So, to use your verbage, I guess you are a drooling moron. Good luck with that.

 

[tfm1973]

you are a drooling moron. 12-point tiebreak is first to 7 and a 10-point tiebreak is first to 10. why the weird naming convention? you got me. i think it's silly and confusing and it looks like you were yet another victim.

 

[Moz]

Well, tell me the truth. Am I a drooling moron?

Would you like to borrow a napkin?

 

[SlapShot]

you are a drooling moron. 12-point tiebreak is first to 7 and a 10-point tiebreak is first to 10. why the weird naming convention? you got me. i think it's silly and confusing and it looks like you were yet another victim.

Indeed. Goofy naming.

But of course, we play a game where the games go to 40, and have no real system, and sets are first to 6, but you have to win by 2. I don't think that logic is our strong point.

 

[Cindysphinx]

*HA!!*

I am most definitely *not* a drooling moron. The State of Virginia is a drooling moron.

Check out the tiebreak rule in Maryland:

2. Individual Match. Each individual match shall be a two-hour timed match, and shall be best of 2 sets with regular scoring and a set tiebreak (first to 7 by a margin of 2) at 6-all in each set. In the event of split sets, a match tiebreak (first to 10, by a margin of 2) shall be played to decide the match.

Uh huh. I knew it. All the smart people live in Maryland.

Yeah, regular tennis scoring is quirky. But it is internally consistent. You don't score the first set love, 15, 30, 40 and then arbitrarily switch to something else for the second set.

The Virginia way (7+5 equals 12, but 8+10 equals 10) is insane.

Do most other places do it Maryland's way or Virgnia's way?

 

[tfm1973]

it's not a MD thing or a VA thing.

first to 7 by a margin of 2 is also known as a 12 point tiebreak.

first to 10 by a margin of 2 is also known as a 10 point tiebreak.

both MD and VA are doing it the same way with the possible exception of the Coman tiebreak switch thingy.

 

[cak]

Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was young there was something called a 9 point tie break that was first to 5, had to win by two. So when at my daughter's junior high tennis they called it a 12 point tie break I could kinda see it, if you squint hard enough. But yeah, us drooling morons tend to call it a 7 point tie break.

 

[Cindysphinx]

MD and VA are doing it the same way in practice, but VA is giving it a name that makes no sense. MD, being full of educated people, realized that calling a "first to seven leading by two" a 12-point tiebreak is misleading and therefore used clear language instead.

Honestly, if I had the VA rules with me in a singles match before Monday and we reached 6-6 in the first set, I would have insisted that "12-point tiebreak" means "first to 12 leading by two." Even to me, it didn't make sense to have the set tiebreaks longer than the match tiebreak, but I figured there was perhaps some feeling in VA that awarding someone a set based on 7 measly points is unfair, so 12 is better.

I wonder if VA will start calling the first set something like a "10-game set." 'Cause that's 6-4. So it makes sense, in a drooling moron kind of way.

 

[Moz]

If that's what a first to 7 tiebreak is called then Virginia is entitled to describe it that way, surely.

You can't expect a large tennis organisation to use common sense!!!

 

[UnforcedError]

Cak is mostly right except the 9 point tie break was first to 5 points period, no win by two. The 12 point tie break which I think was introduced in the 70s to replace the 9 point tie break would have been very confusing if it was called the 7 point tie break. The 12 point tie break has been the standard for a long time so the meaning shouldn't be that confusing. But if we are going to start complaining about the naming why stop there, the score 15-love means only one point has been scored and has nothing to do with feelings.

 

[Cindysphinx]

If that's what a first to 7 tiebreak is called then Virginia is entitled to describe it that way, surely.

You can't expect a large tennis organisation to use common sense!!!

This just in . . .

Virginia is dead wrong.

Here's what the Rules of Tennis say on the subject:

Tiebreaks

a. 7-Point Set Tiebreak (first to 7 by a margin of 2). The 7-Point Set Tiebreak (first to 7 by a margin of 2) is the tiebreak game described in Rule 5(b) of the ITF Rules of Tennis and determines the winner of any set in which it is used. Use of the 7-Point Set Tiebreak is mandatory in all sets of any sanctioned
tournament except Pro Sets (See USTA Regulation I.E.4.)

b. 10-Point Match Tiebreak in lieu of deciding final set. The 10-Point Match Tiebreak (first to 10 by a margin of 2) is described in Appendix IV of the ITF Rules of Tennis and determines the winner of any match in which it is used. The Match Tiebreak used in USTA sanctioned tournaments shall be the 10-Point Match Tiebreak.

Under the Rules of Tennis, there is no such thing as a 12-point tiebreak.

To further stomp on Virginia's grave, the glossary defines the tiebreak is:

7-Point Set Tiebreak. The 7-Point Set Tiebreak is played when the players reach 6-all in a Set. The first player or team to win 7 points by a margin of at least 2 wins the set 7-6.

10-Point Match Tiebreak. The 10-Point Match Tiebreak is played in
some matches in lieu of the deciding final set. The first player or team to win
10 points by a margin of at least 2 wins the final set 1-0 and the match.

In case Virginia wasn't listening, here is the glossary definition of "tiebreak":

Tiebreak Game. The Tiebreak Game is the term used by the ITF for the
7-Point Set Tiebreak that is played to decide a set when the game score
reaches 6-all.

Tiebreak Set. This is the normal type of set that is played under USTA
Regulations. A 7-Point Set Tiebreak is played when the score reaches 6-6.

Does anyone dare me to write to the Poo-bahs in Virginia and urge them to change their rules?

 

[Douggo]

Good luck with your crusade, Cindy. Something tells me this would be like expecting the adoption of the metric system to eliminate the word "pint" from the British lexicon. :wink:

 

[Geezer Guy]

Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was young there was something called a 9 point tie break that was first to 5, had to win by two. So when at my daughter's junior high tennis they called it a 12 point tie break I could kinda see it, if you squint hard enough. But yeah, us drooling morons tend to call it a 7 point tie break.

Exactly right. The original tiebreak was first to 5, sudden death. It was called the 9-point tie-break because the maximum score could be 5-4.

Then the first to 7, win by 2 tiebreak was instituted, and was called the 12-point because the maximum score (unless it goes to extra points) was 7-5.

Then the first to 10, win by 2 tiebreak came along. To be consistent they should have named it the 18-point tiebreak, but they named it 10-point for some reason. I've heard the old 12-point has been renamed to 7-point, but I've not actually seen that in writing anywhere.

 

[Geezer Guy]

Oops - just saw Cindy's post. NOW I've seen it in writing.

 

[Topaz]

Does anyone dare me to write to the Poo-bahs in Virginia and urge them to change their rules?

Oh yeah! I'll take that dare...goooo Cindy!

 

[10sguy]

FINALLY . . . The Correct Terminology!!

This is for all of THOSE (none of the posters in this thread, of course) who persist in using the term "Tiebreaker" and "Super Tiebreak (or Tiebreaker)."

It's nice to see that NONE of the posters here fell into using those incorrect expressions. Note that the word "Super," in connection with tennis tiebreaks, had its genesis in World Team Tennis.

 

[Cindysphinx]

OK, let's make it interesting.

Show of hands: Which of the following is most likely?

(a) Cindy writes to the Virginia Poo-bahs, who do not even respond to her.

(b) Cindy writes to the Virginia Poo-bahs, who gasp in horror and immediately change their local rules to conform to the National Rules.

(c) Cindy writes to the Virginia Poo-bahs, who cannot understand what she is talking about.

(d) Cindy writes to the Virginia Poo-bahs, who successfully lobby USTA to change the official name for a first-to-seven-winning-by-two tiebreak to "12-point tiebreak"

(e) Cindy gets distracted and forgets to write to the Virginia Poo-bahs.

 

[volleyman]

OK, let's make it interesting.

Show of hands: Which of the following is most likely?

F) Cindy writes the Va pooh-bahs, who send her a conciliatory note with vague assurances that the situation will be looked into, and then go back to debating whether the shortening timed matches would improve participation.

 

[SJS]

OK, let's make it interesting.

Show of hands: Which of the following is most likely?

(a) Cindy writes to the Virginia Poo-bahs, who do not even respond to her.

(b) Cindy writes to the Virginia Poo-bahs, who gasp in horror and immediately change their local rules to conform to the National Rules.

(c) Cindy writes to the Virginia Poo-bahs, who cannot understand what she is talking about.

(d) Cindy writes to the Virginia Poo-bahs, who successfully lobby USTA to change the official name for a first-to-seven-winning-by-two tiebreak to "12-point tiebreak"

(e) Cindy gets distracted and forgets to write to the Virginia Poo-bahs.

Cindy,
If you DO decide to write to someone make sure it's not VA USTA. The rule you were citing was written by the league coordinator for that league only.
Even though a lot of us have heard the term "12 point tiebreaker" for years and know it means first to 7 ahead by 2, VA District does not use it. Here's what is in the 2008 VA USTA Rules:
13. It is recommended that local leagues establish match play as best of two sets using regular scoring and a set tiebreak at six games-all in each set. In the event of split sets, a match tiebreak in lieu of a third set shall be played immediately following the two-minute end-of-set rest period (USTA 3.01G and MAS rule 12). The Virginia District tournament will use this format and Coman tiebreak procedure at all District Championships. Local Leagues may use any USTA NTRP approved scoring method

 

[Cindysphinx]

Ah, so I need to figure out who the league coordinator for this league is. I think these are the rules that govern the ladies day league and the indoor and outdoor night leagues.

Volleyman: