15 greatest female players of all time

[NadalandFedererfan]

Since the other thread seems to be consumed by only talk of the men I decided to start one just for the women. Who are your 15 greatest female players ever. Mine at the current moment would be:

Women:

1. Graf
2. Court
3. Wills Moody
4. Navratilova
5. Evert
6. Connolly
7. Lenglen
8. Serena Williams
9. Billie Jean King
10. Monica Seles
11. Justine Henin
12. Maria Bueno
13. Venus Williams
14. Doris Hart
15. Alice Marble or Louise Brough

Serena and Venus will only continue to move higher as their careers go on. They have alot of further greatness and achievements ahead of them which is scary to think.

 

[pmerk34]

Since the other thread seems to be consumed by only talk of the men I decided to start one just for the women. Who are your 15 greatest female players ever. Mine at the current moment would be:

Women:

1. Graf
2. Court
3. Wills Moody
4. Navratilova
5. Evert
6. Connolly
7. Lenglen
8. Serena Williams
9. Billie Jean King
10. Monica Seles
11. Justine Henin
12. Maria Bueno
13. Venus Williams
14. Doris Hart
15. Alice Marble or Louise Brough

Serena and Venus will only continue to move higher as their careers go on. They have alot of further greatness and achievements ahead of them which is scary to think.

Graf is not number one sorry. Her record is inflated by what happened to Monica which is EXACTLY what the guy who stabbed her wanted.

Why is court so high? She didn't even have a topspin backhand.

 

[NadalandFedererfan]

Graf is not number one sorry. Her record is inflated by what happened to Monica which is EXACTLY what the guy who stabbed her wanted.

Why is court so high? She didn't even have a topspin backhand.

What happened to Monica was unfortunate but I deal with reality, not what ifs. Monica's return to tennis at a very young age wasnt exactly stellar other than the first 2 or 3 tournaments back to put it mildly, and limits the amount of benefit of doubt I would give her in any case. I also do not feel Monica is a superior player to Steffi, nor do I believe she would have continued her 91-92 dominance of the game long term. If I dont really believe that, why would I assume it just because she was stabbed. Graf IMO is clearly the greatest all surface player in history, she is much better on any surface than say Evert is on grass, Navratilova on clay, Court performed at Wimbledon, and that makes her the clear #1 in my book.

Court I have so high because of her incredible dominance and longevity, achievements such as winning 3 out of 4 slams an amazing 5 different times, 3 slam years an amazing 11 years apart, being 1 of only 3 women along with Graf to attaint he Calender Slam. While her record is inflated by probably 4-6 slams by the Australian Opens status that would still have given her 18-20 slams, and doing so even while taking off a full year or more 3 seperate times and still returning to dominance each time. She also faced a very deep over field of competitors with Bueno and King both as main rivals, along with Jones, Richey, and Turner after them, and at the end of her career while still dominant Goolagong and a young Evert as well. She also did have a topspin backhand, I have seen her play on tape many times and she used it often when she hit passing shots imparticular. In fact she used it more often than Graf who only used it when she played Navratilova.

 

[pmerk34]

What happened to Monica was unfortunate but I deal with reality, not what ifs. Monica's return to tennis at a very young age wasnt exactly stellar other than the first 2 or 3 tournaments back to put it mildly, and limits the amount of benefit of doubt I would give her in any case. I also do not feel Monica is a superior player to Steffi, nor do I believe she would have continued her 91-92 dominance of the game long term. If I dont really believe that, why would I assume it just because she was stabbed. Graf IMO is clearly the greatest all surface player in history, she is much better on any surface than say Evert is on grass, Navratilova on clay, Court performed at Wimbledon, and that makes her the clear #1 in my book.

Court I have so high because of her incredible dominance and longevity, achievements such as winning 3 out of 4 slams an amazing 5 different times, 3 slam years an amazing 11 years apart, being 1 of only 3 women along with Graf to attaint he Calender Slam. While her record is inflated by probably 4-6 slams by the Australian Opens status that would still have given her 18-20 slams, and doing so even while taking off a full year or more 3 seperate times and still returning to dominance each time. She also faced a very deep over field of competitors with Bueno and King both as main rivals, along with Jones, Richey, and Turner after them, and at the end of her career while still dominant Goolagong and a young Evert as well. She also did have a topspin backhand, I have seen her play on tape many times and she used it often when she hit passing shots imparticular. In fact she used it more often than Graf who only used it when she played Navratilova.

Graf magically started wining French Opens again the VERY year Monica was stabbed. You have some serious blinders on. Seles was never the same post stabbing and Graf had no one who could overpower her. Case closed.

So while you may call it "unfortunate" that Seles was stabbed, a lot of others call Graf's record afterwords a bit hollow and overblown.

 

[NadalandFedererfan]

Graf magically started wining French Opens again the VERY year Monica was stabbed. You have some serious blinders on. Seles was never the same post stabbing and Graf had no one who could overpower her. Case closed.

So while you may call it "unfortunate" that Seles was stabbed, a lot of others call Graf's record afterwords a bit hollow and overblown.

You have your opinion and I have mine. Many experts do rate Graf the greatest ever, so apparently alot of significant minds of tennis have the blinders on too in that case. Graf and Seles are by far the 2 best clay courters of the 90s, with Sanchez a strong 3rd, and I dont believe Seles was going to win 10-12 French Opens in a row so yes I do think Graf would have definitely gotten a couple more Frenchs at some point even without the stabbing. Seles isnt much better than Graf on any surface. Graf and Seles are virtually neck and neck even on clay as their matches on it prove, unlike grass where Seles vs Graf meetings are almost the embarassment of Safina vs Venus Williams, that is when Seles is able to get past Studenikova, Testud, or Lucic in the 2nd or 3rd round.

 

[Guru]

Serena would beat any of those overrated players on a hardcourt.
Venus would smash them all on a grass court
and Henin would take them apart on clay.

I think the oldies are overrated. Graf might have been a great player
but Court, Navratilova and Evert are all very overrated.

The Williams sisters could hit them off court
and give then a very embarrasing score at the end.

I'm talking 6-1 6-1 for these so called legens.

 

[NadalandFedererfan]

Serena would beat any of those overrated players on a hardcourt.
Venus would smash them all on a grass court
and Henin would take them apart on clay.

I think the oldies are overrated. Graf might have been a great player
but Court, Navratilova and Evert are all very overrated.

The Williams sisters could hit them off court
and give then a very embarrasing score at the end.

I'm talking 6-1 6-1 for these so called legens.

So all that being said what would your list look like then?

 

[FedFan_2009]

An Evert record that will never be touched:

Made 52 semifinals out of 56 grand slams played.

 

[imalil2gangsta4u]

An Evert record that will never be touched:

Made 52 semifinals out of 56 grand slams played.

What was the most she made in a row? Just wondering.

 

[NadalandFedererfan]

What was the most she made in a row? Just wondering.

34 in a row.

 

[FedFan_2009]

34 in a row.

That's if you don't count all the missed Australian Opens. If you factor in the AO, then Steffi has the record with 15.

 

[NadalandFedererfan]

That's if you don't count all the missed Australian Opens. If you factor in the AO, then Steffi has the record with 15.

Well back then many players skipped the Australian and French Opens. I would not diminish her slam semifinals streak based on that given it was the way of the times back then.

 

[pmerk34]

That's if you don't count all the missed Australian Opens. If you factor in the AO, then Steffi has the record with 15.

The Australian wasn't considered much back then.

 

[gpt]

Serena would beat any of those overrated players on a hardcourt.
Venus would smash them all on a grass court
and Henin would take them apart on clay.

I think the oldies are overrated. Graf might have been a great player
but Court, Navratilova and Evert are all very overrated.

The Williams sisters could hit them off court
and give then a very embarrasing score at the end.

I'm talking 6-1 6-1 for these so called legens.

Hey Guru, i reckon you're either 9 years old or a shift worker

 

[capriatifanatic]

1. Graf
2. Lenglen
3. Wills Moody
4. Court
5. Navratilova
6. Serena Williams
7. Venus Williams
8. Evert
9. Connolly
10. Billie Jean King
11. Seles
12. Henin
13. Bueno
14. Goolagong
15. Davenport

 

[boredone3456]

As of now my list would be

1. Martina Navratilova
2. Steffi Graf
3. Chris Evert
4. Margaret Court
5/6. Helen Wills Moody (tough because they were not modern players so hard to judge)
5/6. Suzanne Lenglen
7. Maureen Connolly
8. Billie Jean King
9. Monica Seles
10. Serena
11. Alice Marble
12. Louise Brough Clapp
13. Margaret Osborne Dupont
14. Maria Bueno
15. Doris Hart

 

[NadalandFedererfan]

5/6. Helen Wills Moody (tough because they were not modern players so hard to judge)
5/6. Suzanne Lenglen

It is hard to rank Wills and Lenglen and compare them to each other. However I agreed with a point BTURNER made that Wills went around the World and beat all comers on both sides of the Atlantic, in the States and abroad. Lenglen did not do this. Everything I have read about them leads me to believe that while Lenglen was of course outstanding, Wills was still clearly the more powerful and mentally tough player and I believe those qualities would have overcome Lenglen's versatility, all court brilliance, shotmaking, and athletic ability over the long hall.

 

[boredone3456]

It is hard to rank Wills and Lenglen and compare them to each other. However I agreed with a point BTURNER made that Wills went around the World and beat all comers on both sides of the Atlantic, in the States and abroad. Lenglen did not do this. Everything I have read about them leads me to believe that while Lenglen was of course outstanding, Wills was still clearly the more powerful and mentally tough player and I believe those qualities would have overcome Lenglen's versatility, all court brilliance, shotmaking, and athletic ability over the long hall.

Yeah thats sort of how I feel. They were both good but at the time they both played neither had a real rival close to them in terms of quality of their games, they were just so far ahead. In terms of dominating both sides of the Atlantic...I see the arguement. But I look at it this way, domination of different venues is a modern way of thought and comparing the 2 players Wills had much more to gain by going over to Europe and playing than Lenglen did coming over here. Wills had Wimbledon, the French and a whole host of other tournaments, Lenglen really had the US Open. the pull of what at the time could be the 2 biggest tournaments in the world was a powerful pull for Wills. Lenglen didn't have as much to gain, especially after that whole debacle in 1921 at the US Open. I also give Lenglen some benefit because she was halted by WWI when a lot of the bigger tournaments were postponed, and I feel she would have more to her name if she could have competed. But thats just my opinion.

 

[NadalandFedererfan]

Yeah thats sort of how I feel. They were both good but at the time they both played neither had a real rival close to them in terms of quality of their games, they were just so far ahead. In terms of dominating both sides of the Atlantic...I see the arguement. But I look at it this way, domination of different venues is a modern way of thought and comparing the 2 players Wills had much more to gain by going over to Europe and playing than Lenglen did coming over here. Wills had Wimbledon, the French and a whole host of other tournaments, Lenglen really had the US Open. the pull of what at the time could be the 2 biggest tournaments in the world was a powerful pull for Wills. Lenglen didn't have as much to gain, especially after that whole debacle in 1921 at the US Open. I also give Lenglen some benefit because she was halted by WWI when a lot of the bigger tournaments were postponed, and I feel she would have more to her name if she could have competed. But thats just my opinion.

True you do make some good points. Lenglen was also physically fragile so travel was probably a bit scary for her in those days. Still I am dissapointed to find she quit just as Wills was starting to heat up. I know it probably wasnt because of Wills, her father was very domineering and was insistent on it, she needed the money, it was what she was planning anyway really, but still would have liked to see her take on the Wills challenge for a bit more. That she seemed so relieved and emotional beating an up and coming Wills as if she was truly terrified of losing the match, then just left.....just my gut tells me Wills would have gotten the overall upperhand in their rivalry and that is alot of what my comparative ranking of them is largely based on. You do make alot of good points though, and perhaps I am not being completely fair to Lenglen in my comparision of them.

 

[CEvertFan]

That's if you don't count all the missed Australian Opens. If you factor in the AO, then Steffi has the record with 15.

Missed tournaments due to injury or just not playing them don't count towards a streak like that. Get a clue. The streak means out of the tournaments Evert played she made 34 semis in a row which is the OFFICIAL record.

 

[CEvertFan]

True you do make some good points. Lenglen was also physically fragile so travel was probably a bit scary for her in those days. Still I am dissapointed to find she quit just as Wills was starting to heat up. I know it probably wasnt because of Wills, her father was very domineering and was insistent on it, she needed the money, it was what she was planning anyway really, but still would have liked to see her take on the Wills challenge for a bit more. That she seemed so relieved and emotional beating an up and coming Wills as if she was truly terrified of losing the match, then just left.....just my gut tells me Wills would have gotten the overall upperhand in their rivalry and that is alot of what my comparative ranking of them is largely based on. You do make alot of good points though, and perhaps I am not being completely fair to Lenglen in my comparision of them.

You could equate Lenglen/Wills to Navratilova/Evert. When Lenglen was on she was the hotter greater player but Wills was the steadier of the two and IMO the more mentally tough as well. Lenglen's health was a real issue for her throughout her life (she died at 39).


I agree that Wills would probably have gotten the better of Lenglen if they had continued to play. Still, it's hard to really judge because both women were so much better than everyone else of their time - they really had no serious competition.

 

[NadalandFedererfan]

You could equate Lenglen/Wills to Navratilova/Evert. When Lenglen was on she was the hotter greater player but Wills was the steadier of the two and IMO the more mentally tough as well. Lenglen's health was a real issue for her throughout her life (she died at 39).


I agree that Wills would probably have gotten the better of Lenglen if they had continued to play. Still, it's hard to really judge because both women were so much better than everyone else of their time - they really had no serious competition.

Yeah both women were winning all their finals and rounds of slams by lopsided scores and other than their one debated defeats were both were allegedly too ill/injured to continue both were undefeated for a 7 year or so span. Tennis was just starting to be a recognized and competitive global sport no little wonder the talent pool was very thin.

 

[CEvertFan]

Anyway here's my list:

Navratilova
Evert
Graf
Court

Any one of the above four ladies could be considered the best ever. They are in a class of their own.

Wills
Lenglen
Connolly
King
Seles
Serena Williams

You could pick from a variety of ladies for the 11-15 slots. I picked:


Bueno
Marble
Goolagong
Betz
Lambert-Chambers

I'll take it to 20

Brough
Du Pont
Hart
Gibson
Austin


Venus isn't on the list because IMO she has basically become a grass court specialist which just doesn't make the cut unless you are ranking best grass court players ever.

 

[hoodjem]

I just heard Mary Carillo give an amazing and interesting statistic. Chris Evert played in 54 slams, of these she was in the semis of 51.


(Kinda of makes Fed's record of 21 seem small.)

 

[BTURNER]

Hood, its actually 55 I think: the losses were Jordan, Sanchez, McNeal, and Garrison.

My order for twenty

Graf
Court
Wills
Navratilova
Evert
Lenglen
Connolly
King
Lambert-Chambers
Serena Williams
Seles
Bueno
Brough
Henin
Gibson
Marble
Goolagong
Betz
Du Pont
Venus Williams

 

[CEvertFan]

I just heard Mary Carillo give an amazing and interesting statistic. Chris Evert played in 54 slams, of these she was in the semis of 51.


(Kinda of makes Fed's record of 21 seem small.)

It's actually 52 of 56 majors.

 

[BTURNER]

Australian 74,81,82,84,85,88
French 73,74,75,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87 (Loss: Sanchez in 88)
Wimbledon 72,73,75,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,84,85,86,87,88,89 (loss Jordan 83)
US OPen 71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,88,
( loss to McNeal in 87 and Garrison 89)

Australian 6 of 6 ( always in the finals)
RG 12 of 13
Wimbledon 17 of 18
US Open 17 of 19 ( every time a quarterfinalist)

Yep, 52 of 56. How does anyone get through their first 48 slams (1971 US OPen -Wimbledon 1987 with only one loss before the semis?

 

[NadalandFedererfan]

How can Henin be out of peoples top 20? She did win 7 slams. I would rate her above someone like Goolagong who also won 7 slams but whose slams count is obviously inflated by the Aussie Open. Also while I know full well the circumstances on why Austin won only 2 slams I still cant imagine her ranking over a 7 slam winner like Henin.

 

[BTURNER]

I plead idiocy on that one. Henin is now on my revised list. I also added Venus I never had Austin on mine and said goodbye to Doris Hart and Mandlikova.

 

[boredone3456]

If I were to take my list to 20 numbers 16-20 would be as follows

16. Evonne Goolagong-Cawley
17. Dorothea Lambert Chambers
18. Justine Henin (could have gone higher had she stayed)
19. Venus Williams (May go a spot or 2 higher...time will tell)
20. Shirley Fry (coulda picked a few different women...she won out)

 

[thalivest]

Fry is kind of funny since she won the career slam yet has only 4 slams. I dont find her that impressive as it looks like she simply waited for Connoly and Hart to be gone completely, and Brough and Du Pont to be aged and well past their primes, and before Gibson really hit her stride. She won 3 of her 4 slams in that little vaccum of about a year where the 4 women who had dominated her whole careers were either gone or much diminished, and the next great champion was still coming into her own, and won almost nothing the other 8 years or so of her prime.

 

[boredone3456]

Fry is kind of funny since she won the career slam yet has only 4 slams. I dont find her that impressive as it looks like she simply waited for Connoly and Hart to be gone completely, and Brough and Du Pont to be aged and well past their primes, and before Gibson really hit her stride. She won 3 of her 4 slams in that little vaccum of about a year where the 4 women who had dominated her whole careers were either gone or much diminished, and the next great champion was still coming into her own, and won almost nothing the other 8 years or so of her prime.

Fry is sort of funny I admit. In the end she did win a career slam, which is worth something in my book even if she did sort of outlast the rest like some WTA version of Survivor. The 20th spot on my list was between her, Gibson...and I did consider Mandlikova a bit to, but in the end I gave it to Fry who won all 4. I could have probably reasoned out putting her, Gibson, Mandlikova, Austin and maybe even Hingis at 20 on my list, as if i went further down those would be the next names to come up.

 

[thalivest]

Fry is sort of funny I admit. In the end she did win a career slam, which is worth something in my book even if she did sort of outlast the rest like some WTA version of Survivor. The 20th spot on my list was between her, Gibson...and I did consider Mandlikova a bit to, but in the end I gave it to Fry who won all 4. I could have probably reasoned out putting her, Gibson, Mandlikova, Austin and maybe even Hingis at 20 on my list, as if i went further down those would be the next names to come up.

LOL I like your analogy. Yeah her career slam was the equivalent of winning Survivor, she was rewarded for her perseverance and longevity essentialy. Still guess it is hard to rate Gibson over her when Fry was beating Gibson to win all those big titles, and you could say Gibson herself didnt even start winning until all those I mentioned were gone/aged and then Fry gone on top of that.