18+ Mixed Nationals

Topaz

Legend
Since all the levels are happening at the same time and same place, I thought I would give us one place to discuss the evils of mixed dubs on a *National* level. ;)

Anyone else going to be there?
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
This just in. Total change in schedule and going to short sets.
Playing it safe I see, not hoping the rain clears out quickly on Friday?

Have they said the short-set format? First to 4 no tie-break? Or tie-break at 3-3? Or 4-4? No-ad I assume too? Will third sets be a full/normal match tie-break?
 
Playing it safe I see, not hoping the rain clears out quickly on Friday?

Have they said the short-set format? First to 4 no tie-break? Or tie-break at 3-3? Or 4-4? No-ad I assume too? Will third sets be a full/normal match tie-break?
First to 4 win by two games. No ad. 10 point breaker for third. Ill be there!

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leech

Semi-Pro
I wish I could be there, I started the MXD thing too late :(. Best of luck to your team and @leech.
I'm not making the trip this weekend. Have kid shuttling duty (wife out of town). Gonna try to make a splash the following weekend in Orlando in the 40+ MXD.
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
First to 4 win by two games. No ad. 10 point breaker for third. Ill be there!

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TB in the first/second sets at 3-3 then? In Arlington for the big impacted event, I believe it was first to 4 period, no tie-break in the sets, and a first to 7 TB for the third set.
 
TB in the first/second sets at 3-3 then? In Arlington for the big impacted event, I believe it was first to 4 period, no tie-break in the sets, and a first to 7 TB for the third set.
Straight from the email...
Attached is the new schedule, please note that there are new match times for many teams. We will be playing best two out of three short sets with NO AD scoring and a 10 point coman tiebreak rotation if teams split sets. Teams will play to the first to 4, win by 2. If the set reaches 4-4 teams will play a 7 point coman tiebreak. Attached is the scoring conversion chart that has been approved by our NTRP National Oversight Group that we will be using to enter scores into Tennislink.

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Topaz

Legend
Rain is forecasted to be out of the area around 9pm Friday, so hoping that SAT will be back to regular scoring.

Danny, good luck!
 

Topaz

Legend
The weather was darn near perfect and then whoosh...the rain came. It was a short shower at first then longer. Our match was allllmoat finished. We’ve been sent indoor to the civic center. I think everything was close to being done d/t the shortened format.
 

2ndServe

Hall of Fame
4.5 nationals was awful with the short format, I hope you get to play more than 4 games. They need to put this in Southern California or Arizona to avoid this mess
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Since all the levels are happening at the same time and same place, I thought I would give us one place to discuss the evils of mixed dubs on a *National* level. ;)

Anyone else going to be there?
mixed doubles has nationals ?? I thought this was only for fun
 

leech

Semi-Pro
The weather was darn near perfect and then whoosh...the rain came. It was a short shower at first then longer. Our match was allllmoat finished. We’ve been sent indoor to the civic center. I think everything was close to being done d/t the shortened format.
Ah, that stinks. It's such a hassle to move, get warmed back up again, only to play for 10 more mins to complete your match.

I was at the Mobile civic center last year for the semis...they had two makeshift courts for all the levels to use for semis/finals. Watching them roll out the green carpet, stretch it out to try to get rid of the air bubbles, then use DUCT TAPE to hold the carpet sections together, was unbelievable. Try to take lots of pics!
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
The weather was darn near perfect and then whoosh...the rain came. It was a short shower at first then longer. Our match was allllmoat finished. We’ve been sent indoor to the civic center. I think everything was close to being done d/t the shortened format.
Yeah, I heard the last matches of the day were all on court and it was a race to finish before the impending rain came. It looked like there might be a dry window in a few hours so kind of surprised they are punting and going to the rolled out court at the civic center. But perhaps they fear it will stop raining but too cool/humid to dry and don't want to finish in the morning.
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
4.5 nationals was awful with the short format, I hope you get to play more than 4 games. They need to put this in Southern California or Arizona to avoid this mess
They did not revert to single first to 4 sets to decide a match. Just modified Fast 4, more or less like starting each set at 2-2.
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
Ah, that stinks. It's such a hassle to move, get warmed back up again, only to play for 10 more mins to complete your match.

I was at the Mobile civic center last year for the semis...they had two makeshift courts for all the levels to use for semis/finals. Watching them roll out the green carpet, stretch it out to try to get rid of the air bubbles, then use DUCT TAPE to hold the carpet sections together, was unbelievable. Try to take lots of pics!
And given this radical different surface, if it was just a few matches to be completed, as a player I'd almost rather finish in the morning tomorrow on the same court. Forecast tomorrow is good, so even if finishing up puts them 30-60 minutes behind, it should still fit in.
 

Topaz

Legend
It was a very odd surface...players said it felt like cork. They had three courts laid out. Most people drive there just to play a few games.

My partner and I were fortunate to finish our individual match about 90 seconds before the rain came. But we had one court that had to finish at the civic center.

When the weather came in it was super fast...the temp dropped and it got windy...they had to bring a leaf blower on our court!! The craziness never ends!

Good news is tomorrow everything will be back outdoors with regular scoring. We are out unless a whole bunch of teams don’t show up tomorrow. I can’t wait to play real sets!

I did see two scores not in yet, so who knows what predicament other teams ended up in.
 

Topaz

Legend
And given this radical different surface, if it was just a few matches to be completed, as a player I'd almost rather finish in the morning tomorrow on the same court. Forecast tomorrow is good, so even if finishing up puts them 30-60 minutes behind, it should still fit in.
Yeah, so my teammates started playing outdoor...we got stopped for about 15-20 minutes, went back out for about a half hour, then to the civic center where they played two games and a set TB. :-/. It was really a challenge to stay mentally focused through all of that.
 

Topaz

Legend
As I write this, I'm in the Mobile Regional airport, awaiting my puddle jumper to Atlanta and eventually back home.

Some thoughts and observations...

I faced two pairs that were 4.5F/3.5M. I know this combo is often discussed, especially in its relevance and effectiveness at the 8.0 level. The first pair, from FL, featured a 4.5F that was mixed exclusive rating, and who literally, IMO and in that of my partner, could be a 5.0. Her 3.5 partner was the 'weak link', and we literally turned the whole match around after targeting him. She hit the sh*t out of her groundies and did a good job of making me wish I never had to play the net again. :) ( can I pleeeeeease back up? Pleeeease???). My partner and I (we are 3.5F/4.5M) came back to win the second set and 10 pt tiebreak pretty easily after getting bageled the first set 0-4 (this was Friday, when we were playing shortened sets).

The next 4.5F/3.5M pair were from Eastern, and I would never have guessed that the woman (a former badminton champion from China!) was a 4.5! And to give credit where it is due, the male played very solidly and could easily have been a 4.0. He was scrappy and super fast (these darn youngins). But they ended up handling us easily, and we lost that match 2 and 3 (back to regular scoring this day). She was able to just get everything back, he was scrappy and placed his FH and volleys precisely, we made way too many errors, and that was the match!

Next and last...oh Texas. If you've followed mixed you will see that Texas had a team playing in the semis in ALL of the mixed divisions this morning. The 8.0 Texas team featured...6, 7 or so self-rated players. I think all but one of their 3.5 women (a term I use carefully, since at least two of them were traveling with their parents...*eyebrow*) and all their 4.5 males were self rates. My partner and I got a 3.5F/4.5M, both self rates. And I started having flashbacks (not good ones) to facing a Texas 8.0 team in 2015, where the 6'5"ish male just spun his serve over my left shoulder the whole match. This dude was good. Super good. I returned his serve twice. In the entire match. And, while I'm not a super ringer, I've played more than my fair share of 8.0 mixed and returned lots of 4.5M serves. The two I got were from literally bum rushing the serve to take it early and chopping it back. We had a very competitive and fun first set...which we lost when they broke me to take the set 7-5. The second set wasn't so much fun (haha), as they took it 6-2. It was also FREEZING cold by then...after the rain came through late Friday, the temps dropped and SAT was maybe a high of 55ish? Once the sun went down it was very cold, and in the low 40s by the time the player party came around. Texas 4.5M also used two different racquets...one to serve and one to return. Not sure if it was because of the temperature conditions or not, forgot to ask. Let me also say the Texas team was super, super nice...as has every Texas team I've ever encountered. Our opponent did mention that the reason they had so many self-rates was because a bunch of them got the bump to 5.0 a few years ago, but there is no 5.0 in their area. So they sat out a few years, re-self rated at 4.5, and there ya go.

I don't think you can fault someone for wanting to play tennis, and doing what it takes to be able to play...but our guy was not a 4.5. One of my team mates works for the USTA office, and actually worked in ratings and appeals for a bit (she's super patient with all of our questions)...she did mention that when people sit out they are not supposed to self-rate lower than their last rating, but somehow these guys were able to do that. I also understand that it can depend on your coordinator in your area, as well. Their goal is to grow the game and grow leagues, so why put in a system where people literally level out of play? I know it happens in our area too, but I know some of our 4.5 leagues allow 5.0s to play, but they have to play singles #1 or dubs #1 and only so many can play in each match. I think that is actually a very good solution, as then the person is rated where they should be, but they still get to play and compete.

Texas 8.0 and FL 8.0, both teams I played against, actually faced each other this morning in the semis. The two pairs my partner and I played, played each other! If it hadn't been so cold I would have gone to watch (I'm just kinda done with being cold after a long day outside yesterday)...the 4.5M/3.5F edged out the 4.5F/3.5M in a 3rd set TB. This would have been soooooo interesting to watch! I do know the FL team literally came with 6 people, so fatigue could play a factor, too. The Texas team had four pairs I *think*. Texas faced Mo. Valley in the final, but don't know the results yet.

We ended up facing FL, Texas, Eastern, and NorCal...not the easiest of draws for sure. We were missing some of our key players (one of which has been my regular 4.5M partner for years), so while I was honored to see Schmke place us among the favorites, I knew it was going to be tough.

I went to Arlington, TX for 40+ 3.5 women's a few years ago, and we never saw the party. The party at Mobile, despite the cold, was awesome. Big tents with sides and heaters, TVs set up, the food was good (Outback Steakhouse...yes, we had steaks!), the usual photo booths, extra give aways for those of us who had been 'awarded' sportsmanship awards from other teams (thanks FL! I got a new Adidas visor!), and games set up on the courts. The facility is huge, with 60 courts, and they had free coffee and mini muffins in the mornings, plus several businesses set up with lunch options. Just...really well taken care of, and leaps and bounds above what we experienced in Arlington TX.

I know we had some other TWer's there, so I hope some others chime in!

Next stop...Orlando, for 40+ mixed! :) :) :) (one last chance!!!!)

Our 9.0 team took it all the way though...woot woot!!!
 

Topaz

Legend
And wow...Mo Valley took it over Texas 3-0 to win! I never would have guessed that, but I also never saw the Mo. Valley team.
 

Kenny022593

Professional
The Eastern 8.0 team that went was extremely athletic. Even the players that you felt like you could put maneuver with placement were tough.
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
The 8.0 Texas team featured...6, 7 or so self-rated players. ... Our opponent did mention that the reason they had so many self-rates was because a bunch of them got the bump to 5.0 a few years ago, but there is no 5.0 in their area. So they sat out a few years, re-self rated at 4.5, and there ya go.

I don't think you can fault someone for wanting to play tennis, and doing what it takes to be able to play...but our guy was not a 4.5. One of my team mates works for the USTA office, and actually worked in ratings and appeals for a bit (she's super patient with all of our questions)...she did mention that when people sit out they are not supposed to self-rate lower than their last rating, but somehow these guys were able to do that. I also understand that it can depend on your coordinator in your area, as well. Their goal is to grow the game and grow leagues, so why put in a system where people literally level out of play? I know it happens in our area too, but I know some of our 4.5 leagues allow 5.0s to play, but they have to play singles #1 or dubs #1 and only so many can play in each match. I think that is actually a very good solution, as then the person is rated where they should be, but they still get to play and compete.
Thanks for the write-up! It is always interesting to hear details like this.

Yes players are supposed to self-rate no lower than their last C, but a player can appeal when they self-rate and so perhaps they did that and it was legit.

But these players as 5.0M could have found 4.0W to play with in 9.0. Saying they were rated out of being able to play is perhaps not accurate. Certainly there are 4.0W where they are?
 

kylebarendrick

Professional
I've always felt that if more people bumped to 5.0 actually made an effort to play 5.0 it could create some viable leagues at that level. Otherwise the "but there is no 5.0 in their area" becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
I've always felt that if more people bumped to 5.0 actually made an effort to play 5.0 it could create some viable leagues at that level. Otherwise the "but there is no 5.0 in their area" becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
They could help the cause by loosening the restrictions and letting more than half the roster be 4.5 but that makes the league not fun for the "real" 5.0s.

As it is now a lot of the guys who get bumped from winning 18+ 4.5+ have no business being in 5.0, but if they played 18+ 4.5 on court 1 they would have their hands full.

J
 

Notirouswithag

Professional
both of my co workers (well one current and ex coworker) on the mid atlantic 9.0 mixed won the national title on the high rollers team
 
both of my co workers (well one current and ex coworker) on the mid atlantic 9.0 mixed won the national title on the high rollers team
Solid team. We lost to them in the semis. Which players are your co-workers? Nice group of people. It was a fun semis match.

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am1899

Hall of Fame
Solid team.
Agreed. I was there watching the finals. I believe it was 1-1 and the Mid Atlantic players on court 2 came back after losing the first set to clinch it. Strong effort. I didn’t know what to watch, honestly. The 10.0 finals was really exciting, too. Saw some of your 3/4 playoff too, Danny. Good tennis all around.

By the by, did anyone think it was strange that the USTA officials were so hands off?
 
Agreed. I was there watching the finals. I believe it was 1-1 and the Mid Atlantic players on court 2 came back after losing the first set to clinch it. Strong effort. I didn’t know what to watch, honestly. The 10.0 finals was really exciting, too. Saw some of your 3/4 playoff too, Danny. Good tennis all around.

By the by, did anyone think it was strange that the USTA officials were so hands off?
It was great tennis. Fun to be a part of and to watch. I talked to an offical for about 15 minutes after our semis match. I told her i thought it was odd that for a National event there were only 4 officials for 60 courts. In our section, we average about 1 official per 6 courts at a Sectional event. She told me that they wanted to be very hands off and that USTA basically told them that all f the players are used to not having officials all year so they wanted the officials to be as hands off as possible and let the players decide it for themselves on the courts as much as possible.

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am1899

Hall of Fame
It was great tennis. Fun to be a part of and to watch.
100%.

I talked to an offical for about 15 minutes after our semis match. I told her i thought it was odd that for a National event there were only 4 officials for 60 courts. In our section, we average about 1 official per 6 courts at a Sectional event. She told me that they wanted to be very hands off and that USTA basically told them that all f the players are used to not having officials all year so they wanted the officials to be as hands off as possible and let the players decide it for themselves on the courts as much as possible.

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Interesting, the “let ‘em play” adage. Well I’d say they certainly achieved that. In my case it was way different than what we experience at sectionals - officials stop watching warm ups and change overs, calling foot faults, and frequently coding language and racquet abuse. Anyway, it was a breath of fresh air to not have an official come out from the bushes every time I thought about letting an f bomb fly. LOL!
 
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