Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by Mustard, Apr 13, 2012.
Can anyone provide a full results list for these tournaments that Rod Laver won?
For the Tennis Champions Classic see http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=273248
Copied this from an Andrew Tas post in Mens Tennis Forums on the 1970 Dunlop WCT Sydney Open
March 16-22 1970
Dunlop Open, Sydney
Rod Laver (1) bye
Ion Tiriac (ROU) d. Butch Buchholz (USA) 61 64 64
John Cooper d. Fred Stolle 64 36 63 16 62
Ilie Nastase (ROU) (8) d. Allan McDonald 63 63 64
Tom Okker (NED) (5) bye
Roger Taylor (GBR) d. Colin Dibley 64 62 62
Bob Lutz (USA) d. Ray Moore (RSA) 63 46 46 62 62
Arthur Ashe (USA) (4) bye
Ken Rosewall (3) bye
Frank Sedgman d. Stan Smith (USA) wo
Bill Bowrey d. Marty Riessen (USA) 75 86 63
Pancho Gonzales (USA) (6) bye
Roy Emerson (7) d. Graham Stilwell (GBR) 63 61 64
Mal Anderson d. Dennis Ralston (USA) 1012 62 64 57 64
Andres Gimeno (ESP) d. Mark Cox (GBR) 86 62 63
John Newcombe (2) bye
Laver (1) d. Tiriac (ROU) 46 63 75 62
J Cooper d. Nastase (ROU) (8) 63 63 57 64
Taylor (GBR) d. Okker (NED) (5) 60 63 57 64
Ashe (USA) (4) d. Lutz (USA) 63 64 64
Rosewall (3) d. Sedgman 46 97 64 86
Gonzales (USA) (6) d. Bowrey 63 64 62
Emerson (7) d. Mal Anderson 62 1614 63
Gimeno (ESP) d. Newcombe (2) 64 75 1311
Laver d. J Cooper 108 63 62
Taylor d. Ashe 63 86 64
Rosewall d. Gonzales 60 108 62
Gimeno d. Emerson 63 36 46 62 63
Laver d. Taylor 64 1214 62 62
Rosewall d. Gimeno 64 68 119 61
Laver d. Rosewall 36 62 36 62 63
Seems to me to be an exceptionallly strong field.
Thanks pc1 and AndrewTas
Yes, that is a very strong field.
Taylor proved to be a true great player; would have given Kodes much more trouble,IMO, than Metrevali at the 1973 Wimbly.
Besides, great achievement by Gimeno, defeating 2 great australians at their home soil.
Taylor shouldn't have been playing 1973 Wimbledon anyway. He was one of the three members of the ATP who refused to boycott, along with Nastase and Keldie. How apt that they all fell flat on their faces in the singles, although Nastase won the doubles with Connors.
lots of politics back then, the most controversial era might well be 1970-1980 and that boycott is certainly one of its peaks.
it would be very interesting to discuss who should be playing and who shouldn´t.Taylor was a british player and he had been already deprived playing Wimbledon since he was a WCT player.
Why did Borg,Nastase not follow the boycott?.For Connors, he was not an ATP memember and he was fighting ATP´s weight in the game.
Ashe apparently asked Connors to join the ATP and boycott with them, but Connors refused. Borg wasn't an ATP member at that time. Nastase was an ATP member and decided to play Wimbledon, despite the ATP boycotting, saying that he didn't want to go against the Romanian tennis authorities. The ATP later fined Nastase, Taylor and Keldie for their strikebreaking actions.
By the way, kiki, Taylor did face Kodes at 1973 Wimbledon. Kodes beat Taylor 8-9, 9-7, 5-7, 6-4, 7-5 in the semi finals. Kodes had an easier time in the final against Metreveli, winning 6-1, 9-8, 6-3.
Right.Taylor had a better grass court game than Metrevali, and in case he had played Kodes in the final, the result would be pretty similar to their semifinal.
John Cooper. I have to confess i´ve never heard his name before, or at least
can´t remember. but defeating Stolle and Nastase in the same tournament is pretty impressive. any info about him?
John Cooper is the younger brother of Ashley Cooper, the winner of 4 amateur singles majors between 1957-1958. John Cooper's best results were winning his only singles tournament at 1972 Hilversum, and he was runner-up of the Wimbledon men's doubles in the boycott year of 1973.
What about Wimbledon quarterfinalist Horst Buch Bucholz, he was a WCT stelwart and long time pro under Mc Call´s team, but he was never a major player.
Anybody knows about him'
Butch Buchholz won the 1962 US Pro title in Cleveland, beating Segura in the final. He was later the chief executive of the ATP.
thanks, it´s good to realize, that there were strong players in that era who could challenge and beat the best and are not widely remembered today.
the depth of talent was greater than is often thought today.
Mustard, you seem to know pretty well the WCT history.How comes that, in the star studded croop of the 1970´s, Hunt and his team signed unknown guys like Edlefsen,Barth or Leonard?, I mean, were they NCAA champions or something like that?
That seemed a very curious decision when I think of the first WCT tours, led by the likes of Ken Rosewall and Rod Laver.
I never saw Gimeno play, but, he reputedly had one of the best forehands on tour. I recall reading a quote in which he said he grew up just hitting forehands against a wall for hours per day.
I ran into Butch Buchholz at a local dry cleaner about 15 years ago. He looked as crispy as an overcooked strip of bacon. He made George Hamilton look positively pale.
Good serve, steady sliced and flat BH and a very good forehand.Did play fairly well at the net.IMO, a more complete player than Santana, the other spanish great player of the 60´s, who remained amateur and won 4 majors.
He was probably the least competitive of the pro squad gathered by Mc Call (Laver,Rosewall,Hoad,Gonzales,Ayala,Gimeno,Bucholtz and Fraser)
I'm not sure about the backgrounds of Edlefsen, Barth and Leonard. Regarding Laver and Rosewall, they were originally a part of the NTL, which was absorbed into the WCT in early 1970. If you look at the first open major, the 1968 French Open, the WCT players (then just the "handsome eight") didn't participate, but the others all did.
The veteran pros were part of ´NTL (Hoad,Ken Rosewall,Laver,Pancho,Gimeno,Ayala) while the handsome eight were just recent amateurs like newcombe,Roche,Pilic,Drisdale turned pro.
Yes. I know Newcombe and Roche signed with the WCT in late 1967 and thus turning professional, so presumably the others also turned professional at this point as well(?), although not Butch Buchholz, as he had been professional for many years and won the 1962 US Pro.
Why didn´t top US amateurs like Ashe,Riessen or Smith sign for either WCT or NTL when tennis was already open, in 68, and waited for some years to do so'
Being amateur gives you some advantages as well, like not having to do certain media duties. Ashe turned professional in early 1969. He missed the Australian Open while negotiating his professional contract. Ashe was still amateur when he won the 1968 US Open. Was Jan Kodes also amateur when he won his majors?
I thought Ashe was still an Amateur when he lost to Laver in the 69' W SF. I think he was still in the Army. As I recall, Stan Smith was an amateur and a private in the Army when he won his USO and W titles.
Ashe was in the army from 1966-1968. Are you sure you didn't mean the 1968 Wimbledon SF(?), because Laver beat Ashe that year too. I know for certain that Ashe was still amateur throughout 1968. Regarding Smith, didn't he turn professional after his 1972 Wimbledon win, because he won the tournament in Los Angeles soon after, beating Tanner in the final, and wasn't that WCT run?
Another thing, when exactly did the Davis Cup start allowing professional players? It must have been allowing them by 1973 after that whole row over Nikola Pilic and the resulting Wimbledon boycott by the ATP players. I ask because Ashe was playing Davis Cup through to August 1970 before there was a gap and he played it again in 1974. If professionals were banned from Davis Cup back then, it would mean that Ashe was still amateur as late as August 1970.
With the Eastern Bloc countries, what was the situation with Davis Cup in the early 1970s, because Nastase turned professional in 1969, didn't he(?), and he was playing Davis Cup in the early 1970s. Did the national associations have some sort of deal with the ILTF where professional players from their countries wouldn't receive a penny piece for their Davis Cup play in return for them being able to play in Davis Cup?
The original handsome eight (or handsome seven plus Tony Roche), under Lamar Hunt and Dixon were new pros Newcombe, Roche, Drysdale, Pilic, Taylor, plus older pros Buchholz, Ralston, Barthes. Later, begin 1969 Marty Riessen and Tom Okker joined the group. NTL and WCT merged in spring 1970. Barth and Leonard were university champs, and were included, when WCT expanded to 32 players. Yes, Davis Cup allowed contract pros in 1973.
Thanks. What about the freelance pros? I see Mal Anderson played Davis Cup in 1972, for example, so presumably freelance pros could play Davis Cup in those years providing they were okay with no payment for their Davis Cup play. Do you know when Ashe turned pro? Was he a freelance pro in 1969 and 1970 before signing with WCT or still amateur before signing with the WCT?
Yes, Ashe could play Davis Cup challenge rounds in 69 and 70, before signing with Lamar Hunt. There were several typs of players in the early open era: contract pros with a fix promoter, independent pros, who joined the pro groups from time to time, state amateurs (mostly from Eastern Europe) and amateurs, who played for their national federations.
Great ¡¡¡ somebody is able to give a clue about Barth and Leonard...and Edlefsen? I don´t mean to be annoying, I was just curious.Maybe another player or two will arise...but, never forget, 19791/72 WCt fields featured the whole lot of best pros, except for Kodes,Nastase,Smith and Orantes, the top 4 non WCT players of that period.
Good mark.I don´t know when Kodes - or Nasty- turned pros.The easternc countries allowed their top players play as semi pros, that is, earning some money but giving back to ther national fed´s a high % of their earnings.
I really don´t know.Kodes and Nastase were protected by their federations when the 1973 Wimbly boycott arose.That is all I can say.
Kodes was very much hampered by the 1975 DC final, where Borg defeated him badly, but it was played in Stockholm.He was the DC captain of the 1980 squad that won the event after beating Italy at Prague.Lendl was not the real hero of the tier, it was Tomas Smid, a top 25 player with a pretty solid serve, forehand and ground game who beat Panatta in the first match.
I remember Smid--big guy with short hair. Good player, often a threat.
Smid is a player to be given some credit.He had a long and succesful career either at singles or at doubles.
Actually, no they didn't. The Australian pros decided to remove themselves from long-term contracts in 1973... still pro's but no longer under lengthy contracts. See http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/131693182. None of the Aussie stars played in '74 but did in 1975. Newcombe mentions in his book that since he was no under contract he could have played at Davis Cup in '74 but wanted to play in the WCT finals instead.
Now, they must have had a contract with WCT, because Laver and Rosewall, and Smith played the WCT circuit in 1973, Newcombe set out in 1973, but played in 1974. Maybe the eligibility under the new ILTF rules had to do with the new WCT Format, which set a spring circuit only, and allowed players to choose their participations in the second half of the year. It was an agreement between ILTF and WCT to prevent collisions of WCT dates with ILTF dates, especially the Majors, after the complete rift in 1972, when two separate circuits existed, and WCT players were banned from Wimbledon (and virtually from RG). Anyway, in 1973, the WCT pros were allowed to play in Davis Cup for the first time (5 years after Invention of open Tennis), which provoked criticism of the Davis Family, who reclaimed amateurs only status. In the article a further collision problem is mentioned, that of the newly founded WTT, which led to the banning of Connors for RG in 1974.
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