1995 Andre Agassi vs 2007 Roger Federer at the old AO rebound ace

[arvind13]

best of five match. if they faced each other multiple times who would win most of the encounters. I go with federer but I would say it would be very close. I don't think even 2007 federer would run roughshod over 1995 Andre Agassi at the australian open

 

[JasonZ]

federer.

 

[NonP]

Except maybe for his '00 and/or '03 self '95 is Agassi's only version that I could see upsetting peak Fed Down Under. He even has the edge in % of games won - a historic 67.9%, the 3rd highest in the Open Era after his own 71.6% in '03 (vs. an admittedly lackluster draw) and Mac's 70.2% in '90 before his infamous 4th-round default, and that's despite facing Sampras in the final - and he wouldn't be so outclassed in court coverage this time.

I still go with Fed, but this would be closer than most fans think. Dre (in lieu of Rafa or Novak - these hypotheticals don't make much sense unless you do that swap) would definitely steal a couple AOs from Fed prime for prime.

 

[Deleted member 629564]

Aghassian.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

For me Federer, I know i will be criticized again like another thread but on slow surface sometime movement become more important.
Fed movement was god like in 2007 AO and Agassi was never a great mover atleast in compare to big three or Sampras.
Fed can last long in rally with his great movement so he will not care for extra shot but Agassi has to finish points fast to even stay in matches so most of the time I see Fed winning.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

Except maybe for his '00 and/or '03 self '95 is Agassi's only version that I could see upsetting peak Fed Down Under. He even has the edge in % of games won - a historic 67.9%, the 3rd highest in the Open Era after his own 71.6% in '03 (vs. an admittedly lackluster draw) and Mac's 70.2% in '90 before his infamous 4th-round default, and that's despite facing Sampras in the final - and he wouldn't be so outclassed in court coverage this time.

I still go with Fed, but this would be closer than most fans think. Dre (in lieu of Rafa or Novak - these hypotheticals don't make much sense unless you do that swap) would definitely steal a couple AOs from Fed prime for prime.

No, Marat has to produce one of the greatest level and so has to Rafa while 2008 he was not completely fit .
What I have seen may be AO 2000 was Agassi best one and I don't see his level matching Safin or Rafa to defeat Fed between 2004 and 2010.

 

[NonP]

No, Marat has to produce one of the greatest level and so has to Rafa while 2008 he was not completely fit .
What I have seen may be AO 2000 was Agassi best one and I don't see his level matching Safin or Rafa to defeat Fed between 2004 and 2010.

Sorry but you're gonna have to do better than regurgitate a lazy talking point re: Agassi's movement before I take your opinion seriously.

Back in reality we know that even with his limited mobility he had one of the ATG slugfests with Safin at the AO and went the distance vs. Fed at the USO as late as '04, not to mention the '05 USO final where he was more than holding his own in baseline exchanges with Fed for most of the 1st two sets before age caught up with him. Think I'll stick to the facts, thanks.

P.S. Even in that '05 final the advantage shifted to Agassi as the rallies wore on:

1-3 shots - won 44%
4-6 - 38%
7-9 - 57%
10+ - 53%

And that was almost certainly the pattern throughout his career. You sure he'd prefer to finish the points fast?

 

[NatF]

Federer. IMO that was the best anyones played at the AO and while I think it would be close, unlike Pete or Nadal or Djokovic I don't think Agassi would get the best of Federer mentally peak for peak.

 

[arvind13]

Federer. IMO that was the best anyones played at the AO and while I think it would be close, unlike Pete or Nadal or Djokovic I don't think Agassi would get the best of Federer mentally peak for peak.

i agree, although i think 1995 agassi could take federer to five sets. and in a best of 10 series, he could win 3 or maybe 4 if he's lucky

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

Sorry but you're gonna have to do better than regurgitate a lazy talking point re: Agassi's movement before I take your opinion seriously.

Back in reality we know that even with his limited mobility he had one of the ATG slugfests with Safin at the AO and went the distance vs. Fed at the USO as late as '04, not to mention the '05 USO final where he was more than holding his own in baseline exchanges with Fed for most of the 1st two sets before age caught up with him. Think I'll stick to the facts, thanks.

P.S. Even in that '05 final the advantage shifted to Agassi as the rallies wore on:

1-3 shots - won 44%
4-6 - 38%
7-9 - 57%
10+ - 53%

And that was almost certainly the pattern throughout his career. You sure he'd prefer to finish the points fast?

See Fed is just better, he has better FH , movement ,stamina,first serve ,second serve, slice ,net play, better grass player, clay ,indoor HC outdoor HC ,slow HC ,fast HC player.
So actually apart from BH or ROS agassi don't have any big advantage.
This is why Fed can afford to let rally go longer and even loose some points but Agassi cant as he need to be fresh for further match.
I am not underrating Agassi but Peak Fed do nearly everything better than Andre.
So what I said ,will say again most of the time Fed will win, I am not saying Agassi will not win single match but saying most of the time Fed will prevail in the end

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

i agree, although i think 1995 agassi could take federer to five sets. and in a best of 10 series, he could win 3 or maybe 4 if he's lucky

Yeah same I am saying Fed may end up winning around 7 matches out of 10

 

[NonP]

See Fed is just better, he has better FH , movement ,stamina,first serve ,second serve, slice ,net play, better grass player, clay ,indoor HC outdoor HC ,slow HC ,fast HC player.
So actually apart from BH or ROS agassi don't have any big advantage.
This is why Fed can afford to let rally go longer and even loose some points but Agassi cant as he need to be fresh for further match.
I am not underrating Agassi but Peak Fed do nearly everything better than Andre.
So what I said ,will say again most of the time Fed will win, I am not saying Agassi will not win single match but saying most of the time Fed will prevail in the end

Yeah same I am saying Fed may end up winning around 7 matches out of 10

Dre also takes the ball earlier with better consistency (this part usually escapes those who try to argue they're more or less equal), which is why he doesn't need to be as fast or quick as his opponent. And young Agassi wasn't nearly as flat-footed as you think he was. (Seriously revisit some of the old broadcasts and you'll hear the commies describing him as one of the quickest.)

Also '95 (plus '00) Dre had something of a '08/'11 Djokovic about him. Normally I'd agree that he'd come up mentally short vs. most other ATGs, but this was a determined Agassi, with a newfound dedication to tennis and his Gilbert partnership and revamped game now coming into focus. If you're giving him a 30% chance you won't get much argument from me, but that's about the same odds I'd give Marat and Rafa and if you think they'd do better I disagree there.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

@NonP Surely Marat have better odds even if I agree with Rafa on having same odd as Andre.
The reason I give Rafa 2009 more odd like 35 to 40percent because Rafa was a bad matchup for Fed.
Safin 2005 having only 30 percent chance against 2007 Fed is really low more or less I will give him around 40 to 45 percent chance

 

[arvind13]

Dre also takes the ball earlier with better consistency (this part usually escapes those who try to argue they're more or less equal), which is why he doesn't need to be as fast or quick as his opponent. And young Agassi wasn't nearly as flat-footed as you think he was. (Seriously revisit some of the old broadcasts and you'll hear the commies describing him as one of the quickest.)

Also '95 (plus '00) Dre had something of a '08/'11 Djokovic about him. Normally I'd agree that he'd come up mentally short vs. most other ATGs, but this was a determined Agassi, with a newfound dedication to tennis and his Gilbert partnership and revamped game now coming into focus. If you're giving him a 30% chance you won't get much argument from me, but that's about the same odds I'd give Marat and Rafa and if you think they'd do better I disagree there.

I agree with everything except the Marat part. Safin at his best was better than Agassi at his best IMO, especially on hard courts. Agassi returned better and moved better than safin. But safin pretty much does everything else better. Serves better, better groundstrokes, especially the backhand, better at net than agassi. and prime safin, though his return is not as good as agassi is in the same league as agassi.

 

[NonP]

@NonP Surely Marat have better odds even if I agree with Rafa on having same odd as Andre.
The reason I give Rafa 2009 more odd like 35 to 40percent because Rafa was a bad matchup for Fed.
Safin 2005 having only 30 percent chance against 2007 Fed is really low more or less I will give him around 40 to 45 percent chance

I agree with everything except the Marat part. Safin at his best was better than Agassi at his best IMO, especially on hard courts. Agassi returned better and moved better than safin. But safin pretty much does everything else better. Serves better, better groundstrokes, especially the backhand, better at net than agassi. and prime safin, though his return is not as good as agassi is in the same league as agassi.

First off matchup issues are almost irrelevant at this level. They get a lot of our attention because we're understandably impressed when a Ferreira, Simon or even Wawrinka somehow outperforms our expectations against ATGs/GOATs, but the latter almost by definition have a rather complete game that can compensate for their relative weaknesses vs. their peers and vice versa. '09 Rafa downed Fed at the AO not because he somehow punished Fed's BH any more than he does just about any other right-hander but because he was the better match player who stuck to his game plan without breaking down in the 5th set. You're welcome to disagree but I personally like '95 Dre's chances vs. '09 Fed.

And note I said "about the same odds." We can quibble about the %s but if you agree that Fed would still have the edge vs. Marat peak/prime for peak/prime we're almost splitting hairs at this point.

 

[arvind13]

First off matchup issues are almost irrelevant at this level. They get a lot of our attention because we're understandably impressed when a Ferreira, Simon or even Wawrinka somehow outperforms our expectations against ATGs/GOATs, but the latter almost by definition have a rather complete game that can compensate for their relative weaknesses vs. their peers and vice versa. '09 Rafa downed Fed at the AO not because he somehow punished Fed's BH any more than he does just about any other right-hander but because he was the better match player who stuck to his game plan without breaking down in the 5th set. You're welcome to disagree but I personally like '95 Dre's chances vs. '09 Fed.

And note I said "about the same odds." We can quibble about the %s but if you agree that Fed would still have the edge vs. Marat peak/prime for peak/prime we're almost splitting hairs at this point.

I would say on hard court peak for peak fed and safin would be evenly matched. but ofcourse this is a minor quibble, even those who say fed would have an edge, would probably agree its a minor edge

 

[mental midget]

pretty close off the ground but feds got a big serve advantage, and played better defense. this is probably a close match but i could also see fed zoning and breaking multiple times per set a la that blake wtf match. when he was really in the pocket pack then, forget it.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

If peak Agassi had the mental relentlessness of peak Nadal, he might've been favoured. As it is, edge Federer, would be a fabulous match though.

 

[jrepac]

On that sad excuse for a hard court (aka 'rubber mush') I'd go with Agassi actually. Playing speed much slower than USO at the time.

 

[arvind13]

On that sad excuse for a hard court (aka 'rubber mush') I'd go with Agassi actually. Playing speed much slower than USO at the time.

i loved the rebound ace. i like the sound and rubberiness of the court.

 

[DSH]

Fed in 5 sets!

 

[MissileBackHand99]

Agassi on the rebound ace

The big question for me is...would we be going with 1995 rackets/strings/balls...or 2007 ones??