1HBH vs 2HBH

Which one is better

  • 1HBH

    Votes: 46 45.1%

  • 2HBH

    Votes: 43 42.2%

  • Equal

    Votes: 13 12.7%
  • Total voters
    102
It's literally written here topspin

Not slice plus topspin. Zero boost dimi will get if I remove slice because slice is already removed.
 
You can literally read in the comments of post you shared. They don't count slices.

Dimi is one of my favorite. No reason to lie. Bully his backhand , thats one way to win.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
I don't believe this has topspin and slice at all. I already know dimitrov has top billing on backhand and that's excluding slices which he used 40% of the times. Whenever a high ball is there , he would just not be included in the calculation
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I can do this all day buddy.

www.atptour.com

Grigor Dimitrov's Grip & Rip | ATP Tour | Tennis

Grigor Dimitrov’s forehand is a cannon. An ATP Infosys Beyond The Numbers analysis of groundstroke speed, spin, and net clearance of the current Top 10 at ATP events over the past three years identifies that nobody blasts his forehand bigger than the 33-year-old Bulgarian.
www.atptour.com www.atptour.com

Grigor has the second fastest single recorded BH in all of history at 108mph. First was Novak, I mean Nalbandian, at 110mph.
 
Rosstour said:
I can do this all day buddy.

www.atptour.com

Grigor Dimitrov's Grip & Rip | ATP Tour | Tennis

Grigor Dimitrov’s forehand is a cannon. An ATP Infosys Beyond The Numbers analysis of groundstroke speed, spin, and net clearance of the current Top 10 at ATP events over the past three years identifies that nobody blasts his forehand bigger than the 33-year-old Bulgarian.
www.atptour.com www.atptour.com

Grigor has the second fastest single recorded BH in all of history at 108mph. First was Novak, I mean Nalbandian, at 110mph.
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And who said he doesn't have highest numbers last year. I didn't

Read post #15.

These numbers discount slices. What dimi does when pushed on backhand.

I also put him at last place in top 10 athleticism thread last year. Because he can be pushed around. And bullied.
 
am1899 said:
FWIW it’s been my understanding also that slice is not included in that BH graphic.
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That one clearly states it's just topspin. Usually it's difficult to find out for sure.

Point is, look at where Grigor is. And TPas and Thiem. And if we want to just do RPM then Lajovic comes into frame as well. And if anyone tries to go out there and screw around on court trying both, they will quickly realize that you can swing much slower on a 1H and still produce a pretty good ball.
 
hand, especially by players with a powerful, two-handed backhand. Dimitrov relies on a one-handed backhand, which can be more vulnerable to consistent pressure from a two-handed backhand, particularly if the opponent can consistently hit the ball deep and with good pace.

Elaboration:
One-handed Backhand vs. Two-handed Backhand:
The two-handed backhand is generally considered more powerful and consistent due to the ability to use both hands for more strength and stability. This makes it easier to consistently hit the ball deep and with power, putting pressure on a one-handed backhand.

Dimitrov's Backhand Style:
Dimitrov's backhand is known for its versatility, including the ability to use both top-spin and slice shots, and he is known for his excellent backhand return of serve and ability to shorten his swing to take pace from the opponent.

Opponent's Power:
Players with strong, consistent serves and the ability to hit deep, powerful backhands can effectively pressure Dimitrov's backhand, making him more susceptible to errors or having to play defensively.





In this case the average speed and spin numbers are not useful without context. If dimitrov has to resort to weaker shot, that being slice.

Tennis is totally in power eta today. Bang bang from both sides. Like sinner. Even Carlos alcaraz is going to struggle with the backhand issues.
 
Rosstour said:
That one clearly states it's just topspin.
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My bad, didn’t catch that.

Rosstour said:
Usually it's difficult to find out for sure.
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Agreed.

Rosstour said:
Point is, look at where Grigor is. And TPas and Thiem. And if we want to just do RPM then Lajovic comes into frame as well. And if anyone tries to go out there and screw around on court trying both, they will quickly realize that you can swing much slower on a 1H and still produce a pretty good ball.
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Yeah, Grigor absolutely cracks the ball. I didn’t truly appreciate it until seeing him live in Canada vs Karlovic. Unbelievable.
 
With higher topspin being generated these days amongst ATP pros, the balls are likely to be higher bouncing on average compared to the past both on serves and rally shots. So you will need to make higher contact on returns and rally contact points more often these days which is what makes the 1HBH less viable than the past as it is harder to keep hitting it consistently with a high contact point.

Also generally 1HBHs need to make contact in front of the body much earlier than 2HBHs which makes it harder to play defense against faster balls especially as it is very hard to hit 1HBHs consistently with an open stance while you can easily do so on 2HBHs with later contact. As the pace of shot goes up amongst the pros putting the ability to play great defense at a premium, this also makes the 1HBH less viable.

It is possible to generate high topspin more easily with 1HBH drives and the few 1HBH players on the ATP tour will generally be near the top of the chart for BH topspin RPM. On the other hand, 1HBH drive players rarely rank high on return leaderboard charts published by the ATP.

If you are playing at a rec level where the balls hit by opponents are not as fast or high bouncing, you can excel using 1HBHs drives also, but it is harder to learn for little kids when they are beginners. There are also less young coaches with 1HBHs and so they are more likely to encourage learning the 2HBH if you are a beginner as they will model how they hit their own BH typically. Over time this has got to make the 1HBH rarer amongst tennis players who have been coached and you are likely to see more self-taught players or very old coached guys playing with it at the rec level.
 
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socallefty said:
With higher topspin being generated these days amongst ATP pros, the balls are likely to be higher bouncing on average compared to the past both on serves and rally shots. So you will need to make higher contact on returns and rally contact points more often these days which is what makes the 1HBH less viable than the past as it is harder to keep hitting it consistently with a high contact point.

Also generally 1HBHs need to make contact in front of the body much earlier than 2HBHs which makes it harder to play defense against faster balls especially as it is very hard to hit 1HBHs consistently with an open stance while you can easily do so on 2HBHs with later contact. As the pace of shot goes up amongst the pros putting the ability to play great defense at a premium, this also makes the 1HBH less viable.

It is possible to generate high topspin more easily with 1HBH drives and the few 1HBH players on the ATP tour will generally be near the top of the chart for BH topspin RPM. On the other hand, 1HBH drive players rarely rank high on return leaderboard charts published by the ATP.

If you are playing at a rec level where the balls hit by opponents are not as fast or high bouncing, you can excel using 1HBHs drives also, but it is harder to learn for little kids when they are beginners.
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Return is the big 1H weakness, no getting around that.

That's why I advocate that players will eventually have to learn how to hit every BH. Slice, 1H drive for defense and approach, 2H drive for returns and high balls.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
So someone like thiem on slow clay has more power than 2hbh players. Agreed.
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Wawrinka & Musetti do generate quite a bit of power from their ohbh's.
Too many Fed, Wawa highlights against Djoker and Nadal refute 2hbh's having more power even if Fed has a slightly less W/L%.
The power from either side is debatable even though Alcaraz, Sinner and Fils pummel their two-handers.
What's obvious is 2hbh's have more control, balance and, so you win more points.

What appears to come with 2hbh's are wrist issues: DelPo, Korda, Djokovic, Kyrios, Alcaraz...
I never hear of wrist problems from ohbh players and my statement is supported by A.I. tools:

"two-handed backhand players are more prone to certain wrist injuries due to the increased load on the non-dominant wrist and the nature of the grip. The two-handed backhand uses a more locked-down grip, potentially leading to less wrist mobility and increased strain on the wrist joint. "

You may be able to prevent that with forearm/wrist curls. You should do these anyway to prevent tennis elbow.
 
Rosstour said:
Return is the big 1H weakness, no getting around that.

That's why I advocate that players will eventually have to learn how to hit every BH. Slice, 1H drive for defense and approach, 2H drive for returns and high balls.
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This is a recipe for disaster. They have radically different contact points, and switching between them is going to reduce your confidence and capability with both. There is a reason players pick a shot and stay with it. Strokes need consistency and repetition for mastery at a high level.
 
1HBH suits for fast, low bounce courts
Better for attacking style, net-rush, volley(and half-volley), more reach and flexibility. Better striking zone, slice is more affective, more topspin, less prone for error.

2HBH suits for slow, high bounce courts
Best for baseline basher who thrives on long rally, playing safe. Defense/pusher specialist. More compact for grinder(I.e. Djokovic) relying on wearing out his opponent physically. ROS on shoulder high, and less prone for shank


With that being said, mastering 1HBH is more difficult because it require a higher degree of innate talent, skills and athleticism. Aesthetically, 1HBH looks more sophisticated and manly, and pleasing to the eye.
 
TMF said:
1HBH suits for fast, low bounce courts
Better for attacking style, net-rush, volley(and half-volley), more reach and flexibility. Better striking zone, slice is more affective, more topspin, less prone for error.

2HBH suits for slow, high bounce courts
Best for baseline basher who thrives on long rally, playing safe. Defense/pusher specialist. More compact for grinder(I.e. Djokovic) relying on wearing out his opponent physically. ROS on shoulder high, and less prone for shank


With that being said, mastering 1HBH is more difficult because it require a higher degree of innate talent, skills and athleticism. Aesthetically, 1HBH looks more sophisticated and manly, and pleasing to the eye.
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Winning matches looks most manly, which is where the 2HBH shines. Besides, Agassi and Connors are two of the most aggressive players of all time and used 2HBHs.
 
Holmes said:
Winning matches looks most manly, which is where the 2HBH shines. Besides, Agassi and Connors are two of the most aggressive players of all time and used 2HBHs.
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2hbh gives you ability to stay on baseline and dictate. Not the old technique one hander. These players are pushed back and from there they can grind.

Or just slice the backhand and hope your opponent is inept to take advantage of this.

@Pheasant
 
Slice is a weakness in modern tennis. Yes players who are one dimensional can get some issues with it.

Usually we are told the one who slices earlier shows weakness.
 
Holmes said:
Winning matches looks most manly, which is where the 2HBH shines. Besides, Agassi and Connors are two of the most aggressive players of all time and used 2HBHs.
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2HBH only shines in a slow, homogenized era, but on fast courts, it's a huge disadvantage because it lacks variety of skills necessary to be at the very top.

No doubt Agassi and Connors were great, but vast majority of great players during the fast court era were dominated by 1HBH.
 
TMF said:
2HBH only shines in a slow, homogenized era, but on fast courts, it's a huge disadvantage because it lacks variety of skills necessary to be at the very top.

No doubt Agassi and Connors were great, but vast majority of great players during the fast court era were dominated by 1HBH.
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McEnroe did not dominate Borg nor Connors, and Sampras did not dominate Agassi. Pete and Mac had winning records against Connors and Agassi because of their GOAT serve and volley game, not because of their dreadful backhands. Lendl had a losing record against Borg, and a non-dominant win against the older Connors. Becker and Edberg both had losing records to Agassi. Not sure who else you're referring to.

As a side note, Lendl struggled with Edberg because of Edberg's heavy, high bouncing kick serve that went up to Lendl's shoulder. He expressed fear to his coach Roche over this at the time. Agassi on the other hand didn't have this problem.
 
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leodevlin said:
Is there no hard data on average 1HBH vs 2HBH power?
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What do you mean by hard data though? 1 handers bailing out of tougher shots is hard data enough I think.

On flip side we have Agassi Sinner and such guys who barely ever bail out of hitting a backhand topspin.
 
socallefty said:
With higher topspin being generated these days amongst ATP pros, the balls are likely to be higher bouncing on average compared to the past both on serves and rally shots. So you will need to make higher contact on returns and rally contact points more often these days which is what makes the 1HBH less viable than the past as it is harder to keep hitting it consistently with a high contact point.

Also generally 1HBHs need to make contact in front of the body much earlier than 2HBHs which makes it harder to play defense against faster balls especially as it is very hard to hit 1HBHs consistently with an open stance while you can easily do so on 2HBHs with later contact. As the pace of shot goes up amongst the pros putting the ability to play great defense at a premium, this also makes the 1HBH less viable.

It is possible to generate high topspin more easily with 1HBH drives and the few 1HBH players on the ATP tour will generally be near the top of the chart for BH topspin RPM. On the other hand, 1HBH drive players rarely rank high on return leaderboard charts published by the ATP.

If you are playing at a rec level where the balls hit by opponents are not as fast or high bouncing, you can excel using 1HBHs drives also, but it is harder to learn for little kids when they are beginners. There are also less young coaches with 1HBHs and so they are more likely to encourage learning the 2HBH if you are a beginner as they will model how they hit their own BH typically. Over time this has got to make the 1HBH rarer amongst tennis players who have been coached and you are likely to see more self-taught players or very old coached guys playing with it at the rec level.
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This is spot on and really unfortunate as the one hander is such a beautiful stroke when executed properly.
 
junior74 said:
I think the main reason for a one-handler is easier access to ‘effortless’ power and spin. And aesthetics, obviously. One-bh aficionados are vain.
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The other reason is how much easier it is to hit a 1H on the move.

nolefam_2024 said:
What do you mean by hard data though? 1 handers bailing out of tougher shots is hard data enough I think.

On flip side we have Agassi Sinner and such guys who barely ever bail out of hitting a backhand topspin.
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I don't understand where you got this idea that only 1H players slice. Sinner slices more than Shapo does. Grigor slices a lot. It's player preference
 
Rosstour said:
The other reason is how much easier it is to hit a 1H on the move.



I don't understand where you got this idea that only 1H players slice. Sinner slices more than Shapo does. Grigor slices a lot. It's player preference
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Sinner slices more than shapo? Is this true ? I rarely watch shapo matches. So need confirmation.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
Slice is a weakness in modern tennis. Yes players who are one dimensional can get some issues with it.

Usually we are told the one who slices earlier shows weakness.
Click to expand...
Slice is not a weakness on grass especially at Halle or Queens. Guys like Dimitrov and Berretinni can put the ball at lower shin height which is not easy to hit up on consistently.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
Shapovalov slices 30% of backhand and sinner just 7.5%


Slice IN GENERAL is weakness in tennis. Be it used by 2 handed player or 1 handed player. There are of course exceptions and everyone should understand exceptions will always be there but they are not good for making any statement.
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A slice can be a great change up shot, or a defensive play to get you back in the point, and for that reason everyone should have it. But the notion that relying on slicing 50% of the time to keep you in the point doesn't indicate the 1HBH is weaker than the 2 is denial.
 
Ray Mercer said:
Slice is not a weakness on grass especially at Halle or Queens. Guys like Dimitrov and Berretinni can put the ball at lower shin height which is not easy to hit up on consistently.
Click to expand...
Slice is weakness by itself.

The guys you mentioned dimitrov and berrettini both possess great forehand and serve which is why this backhand weakness can be hidden.

This also shows that in grass you don't need most powerful game to win @Aabye5 , both won queens.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
Slice is weakness by itself.

The guys you mentioned dimitrov and berrettini both possess great forehand and serve which is why this backhand weakness can be hidden.

This also shows that in grass you don't need most powerful game to win @Aabye5 , both won queens.
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Dude what are you talking about. Slicing is well known to be one of the most effective ways to counter Djokovic, he hates it. Maybe that's why you hate players who slice.
 
Aabye5 said:
No, it definitely allows for greater reach, but you have to have excellent footwork to take advantage.

Federer and Thiem, and especially Wawrinka, could recover better because of that reach
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I see DHBH players with a wider reach to the sides than I saw from Fed, Thiem and Wawrinka. I'm not talking about textbook DHBH, more that ones that are almost played on splits.
Recovering of Wawra and Thiem was more about letting their left leg rotate outside when opening up or playing open stance. Still no advantage to what alcaraz or fils can do.
 
Rosstour said:
Dude what are you talking about. Slicing is well known to be one of the most effective ways to counter Djokovic, he hates it. Maybe that's why you hate players who slice.
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I am not only limited to Djokovic. That is your issue to look at nolefams in this way.

Djokovic is not losing because fed sliced a lot. He would lose when on a day fed serve became unreadable. Federer said so himself that his slice has stopped bothering Nole in wimby 2019 pre final. Its definitely better than going topspin backhand to backhand vs Nole yes but it doesn't give you huge advantage either.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
I am not only limited to Djokovic. That is your issue to look at nolefams in this way.

Djokovic is not losing because fed sliced a lot. He would lose when on a day fed serve became unreadable. Federer said so himself that his slice has stopped bothering Nole in wimby 2019 pre final. Its definitely better than going topspin backhand to backhand vs Nole yes but it doesn't give you huge advantage either.
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I'm not just talking about Fed, this is why debating you gets annoying bc you can't separate technical discussions from Fanwars
 
nolefam_2024 said:
I am not only limited to Djokovic. That is your issue to look at nolefams in this way.

Djokovic is not losing because fed sliced a lot. He would lose when on a day fed serve became unreadable. Federer said so himself that his slice has stopped bothering Nole in wimby 2019 pre final. Its definitely better than going topspin backhand to backhand vs Nole yes but it doesn't give you huge advantage either.
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I wouldn't continue to engage. Speaking from experience, it's going to get progressively uglier.
 
Rosstour said:
I'm not just talking about Fed, this is why debating you gets annoying bc you can't separate technical discussions from Fanwars
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Ok then I can agree some guys like Andy Murray do get successful when they use it as change up tactic vs Nole but they had backhand worthy to go toe to toe with Nole so this was extra option.

Even for these guys, backhand slice is weakness. Nole became increasingly better at attacking the slice in his 20s.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
It's pretty obvious the member just wanted a response which is why Nole name was dropped but when I mentioned fed them it was time for fan wars.
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Nope. The point is, even the best player ever can be troubled by slice.

Nadal wasn't troubled by slice as much. I dislike these blanket statements, no nuance.
 
Rosstour said:
Nope. The point is, even the best player ever can be troubled by slice.

Nadal wasn't troubled by slice as much. I dislike these blanket statements, no nuance.
Click to expand...
Sinner is the best today. No slice , nothing. Just hammer the backhand

Why you can't appreciate this I don't know. This is the way to win matches today. Which makes one hander pretty bad an option.
 
In general variety is very overrated. What you need is power and consistency. That's the way to win matches. Monica Seles did this even back in 90s on women's tour. So not just issue of surface slowing down. She led the wta power era revolution. No need of variety tbh to win.

As sports are going to be more data based , the variety aspects will die down in place of consistency.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
In general variety is very overrated. What you need is power and consistency. That's the way to win matches. Monica Seles did this even back in 90s on women's tour. So not just issue of surface slowing down. She led the wta power era revolution. No need of variety tbh to win.

As sports are going to be more data based , the variety aspects will die down in place of consistency.
Click to expand...
Variety is important, but usually when your opponent is better than you in some way. For example, Pete and Roger often used slice against Andre and Nole because both of those guys had far superior backhands, and using the slice to change the pace of the rally was a get out of jail free card when they were getting pushed into the corner, and could sometimes move Andre/Nole into uncomfortable positions. However, despite this being a smart tactic, Andre/Nole usually won rallies where they could make the dynamic an isolated backhand to backhand affair, and generally didn't have to do as much to get around their backhands as Pete/Fed.
 
Holmes said:
Variety is important, but usually when your opponent is better than you in some way. For example, Pete and Roger often used slice against Andre and Nole because both of those guys had far superior backhands, and using the slice to change the pace of the rally was a get out of jail free card when they were getting pushed into the corner, and could sometimes move Andre/Nole into uncomfortable positions. However, despite this being a smart tactic, Andre/Nole usually won rallies where they could make the dynamic an isolated backhand to backhand affair, and generally didn't have to do as much to get around their backhands as Pete/Fed.
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I don't know specifics of Pete and Andre rivalry so can't confirm this. But makes sense to me.

Variety is actually very important. But it's not more important than power and consistency. It's third behind both.
 
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