1st serve Toss help. Over the head vs in front

[coyfish]

Hey guys i've been debating this on my serve. Ive got a solid 1st serve in terms of power.

There are 2 general types of tosses I see for flat 1st serves. The common toss which basically right in front of you. And then you have a toss that is more out in front where you lean / reach into the court to hit.

The first toss which is similar to how fed / nadal toss I feel gives me more power but I often hit it slightly off center.

The second which is similar to roddick's toss gives me more consistency / placement and is an easier motion. I really focus on that wrist snap which is easier when the ball is more in front. This gives me less power though. Perhaps because the more vertical toss allows me to really get my legs into it more.


I realize placement > power and I have to practice my 1st serve big time. Im just asking out of curiosity and to get some thoughts. Seems like more big guys toss out in front and the "shorter" guys use the more common toss. I am 5"10. I also realize roddick comes to net after his serve but some guys serve like that all the time.

Here are a couple vids:

1) Normal toss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG7dTkZ-EpM



2) In front

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgrfL-9kLpE&feature=related

 

[mikeler]

I toss it straight up but I'm 2 inches shorter than you. If I was taller I might try tossing it further forward but it just does not work for me.

 

[Nanshiki]

The further out and the higher you hit the ball, the more clearance over the net you'll get.

The best reason to hit a ball that's above you is because it lets you stay more stable, or because you're hitting a spin serve. A toss that isn't that high or far out in front can also make it more easier to generate power, but that power doesn't do any good if the ball doesn't go in most of the time.

 

[ProgressoR]

I am 6ft, i toss it forward for first serves, helps get the forward momentum, I miss much more if i toss just over my head.

But for safe spinny serves i toss over my head, where pace isnt an issue.

 

[supineAnimation]

The further out and the higher you hit the ball, the more clearance over the net you'll get.

The best reason to hit a ball that's above you is because it lets you stay more stable, or because you're hitting a spin serve. A toss that isn't that high or far out in front can also make it more easier to generate power, but that power doesn't do any good if the ball doesn't go in most of the time.

Not really. You get more net clearance the more you hit the bottom of the ball. So the farther the toss is in front of you and/or to your right - for righties, left for lefties - the less of the bottom of the ball you can strike and so you're hitting the ball more forward or down, which results in lower net clearance.

I'm a big fan of high percentages when it comes to the serve, and at an average or slightly below average height, I would suggest the OP stick to tossing the ball closer to the body so that you can swing up at it and contact the bottom of the ball for every serve. You might go for a big, flat serve sometimes when you're up in the game by tossing it farther out in front and hitting it closer to the net, but at 5'10" you have a really small window of space over the net to get the ball in. If you could draw a straight line from your contact point to the back of the service line, you'd see that you have quite a small margin for error to get that ball to clear the net and land in the box. If you can hit the ball over the net higher and get more topspin on it by hitting more of the bottom of the ball, your percentages will be higher and your ball will be heavier. I'm 6'1" and I try to hit the bottom of that ball on the large majority of my serves.

 

[spacediver]

A toss that isn't that high or far out in front can also make it more easier to generate power, but that power doesn't do any good if the ball doesn't go in most of the time.

why would a high / far out toss reduce available power? I would have thought the opposite - far out allows you to use more forward momentum, and high allows fuller extension...

 

[ManuGinobili]

why would a high / far out toss reduce available power? I would have thought the opposite - far out allows you to use more forward momentum, and high allows fuller extension...

The forward momentum is useful in stepping into the court. If you think about it, the power from the serve comes from the kinetic chain - the body exploding up on the ball - so a bit of leaning forward might not add all that much.

One more thing that I think is helpful: The further back you toss the ball, the more depth you're going to gain. This is a nice quick fix that you can tell yourself in the middle of a game.

 

[Slazenger07]

I usually toss it up and slightly forward to keep me hitting into the court for first serves, flat and slice. Toss is more towards my hitting shoulder for the slice so I can carve the side of the ball better. Im 6'0"

 

[coyfish]

Thanks for the tips guys. I am only talking about 1st flat serves here. Should be one of my biggest weapons but it isn't which is why I wan't to start practicing it more. My 2nd serve and slice serve are both decent enough.

For me tossing out front doesn't give me as much power because I am not exploding onto the ball as directly as the more vertical toss. But because of that I get more control.

I don't get to hit much these days but hopefully on friday ill play and really focus on what I am doing with my serve. My biggest issue with tossing more over my head is that I don't hit the ball in the sweet spot that often. Maybe 1/3 of the time. I can still crank the serves but I lose some power / control right there. Could just be not practicing them enough though.

 

[LeeD]

As usual, DEPENDS !! :shock:
EBH servers going flat tend to toss more overhead.
Conti and efh side of conti users tend to toss more into the court.
But it's personal preference, and how much wrist snap you use compared to leg drive and forward movement.
You are constantly changing your service motion and grip, stance and prep, so it changes with YOUR changes. Adapt and adopt.