[2]Rafael Nadal vs [3] Roger Federer 2012 Australian Open Semifinal

[nevisben]

I much prefer Nadal to Fed but to say he is the better player is wrong IMHO. He's a better clay courter but peak F vs peak N? Hard to know for sure so I go with the 'lifetime achievements' measure and that puts Fed ahead - at the moment.

 

[Ripster]

Finished watching the whole match now, only saw the last set live. Federer is so scared of Nadal, that it is beyond shocking.

He completely forgets how to play, I could not believe the sheer amount of UEs that were bleeding him dry. Yes, Nadal pulled some errors from him, but so many of them were just flowing from the racquet, it was stunning.

Nadal OWNS him. I am not talking about the match up. I am talking about that darkest part in Federer's mind, where Nadal haunts him. He is afraid of him...the body languages say it all. Nadal walks with his chest out, roaring, knowing he owns his prey. Federer walks around submissive, unsure, afraid, insecure.

The match plays on Nadal's terms, and that is in the mind. Yes, Nadal does his job with the ball, and his spin, and his movement...but he focuses on the mind of Roger. And Roger's skull explodes all over the court. Sad to watch.

And what is worse for him is, that if he wants to win a slam, he will have to beat Nadal. Because outside of Djokovic, who can only play him in a slam final, there is no one else to KO Nadal. Nadal OWNS the whole field, barring Djoker when it comes to slams, and that is the only place that truly matters.

That said, Federer still lived up to his ranking. He was expected to get to the semis, and lose, and he honored that. However, all this talk about the big 3....seriously....it is the big 2, and it has been that way for a while now. At this point though in his career, going up against the peaks of Djoker and Nadal, he shouldn't really be expected to win.

I agree with most of your post. It isn't just the gamestyle that drives Federer nuts, Nadal is mentally in his head. Federer was playing just fine the first 5 games of the match. He looked cool, was serving well was hitting forehand winners and knocking off volley's like cake. As soon as he faces a little adversity, he completely wilts and let's Nadal back into the match.

I think Djokovic will continue to beat Nadal again this year. I also think Juan Martin Del Potro will have a winning record against Nadal. I'm almost certain that he would have done better against Nadal today than Federer's losing effort.

 

[wimble10]

great thing about the challenge system is We don't have to listen to these kind of theatrics by McEnroe:

"There's a mark. That's the only mark there.

It caught part of the line.

what?

even though i hit an ace it has to be a 2nd serve?

Is she sure of her decision?

Is there any time when they are not sure of their decision?

Has there been one occasion throughout that they are not sure.

Are they 100% sure everytime, even if it's on the line ?

Is that what they tell them, that they are 100 %. "

(Talk about gamesmanship.)

 

[Mike Sams]

You know what's hilarious? Federer and Nadal could play again at Wimbledon or US Open this year and still the polls would be lopsided in favor of "Federer in 4" :lol :lol:

 

[tlm]

Nadal doesnt do anything out the ordinary against Federer.He just puts the ball in play and wait till Federer starts making ridiculous errors!!

Ya right like the many unbelievable passing shots that rafa hit, it was a lot more than ridiculous errors. Which by the way are because fed has to go for so much to get the ball by rafa he makes a lot of errors.

His regular shots that work against most players do not cut it against rafa. So he has to play outside his ability's which in turns leads to errors.

 

[tlm]

When its all said and doned Roger will regret not making any adjustments or tactics in trying to get over the Nadal mental hurdle.

You did not even watch the match so what do you know? Fed was attacking rafas 2nd serve he was coming in often and hitting to nadals backhand repeatedly. He did change his tactics and still lost.

 

[TennisLovaLova]

I don't know what match you watched. They were both hitting well and deep most of the time. Federer was pulling more triggers than Nadal, which is why he made more errors, but also had more winners. And by the way, errors made when pulling a trigger should be distinguished from errors made when trying to do nothing special. The first category is far from "ridiculous" and a good portion of his errors belong to that category.

It seems to me there was nothing wrong with Federer's plan. He tried to play his game. The execution came a bit short, but whose game should he try to play? I thought he played pretty well (except for the second set) and it was all a matter of a few key points here and there.

Sometimes fed could easily have finished some valuable points but he always allowed nadal to hit the ball back. That smatch nadal returned on the line, 2 fh down the line at bp in 3rd set, etc.
The excessive margin of security he took in this match combined with the low speed of the court cost him the match, mental aspect of his failure today aside. He should have finished some points in the way he used to dominate before. So, Imo, he simply didnt elevate his level of tennis as we would expect him to do when facing nadal. Serve, returns, volley, everything went wrong. The weird thing is that he resisted with his bh today. But the rest was average.

Maybe peak federer was superior to anything we'll see in tennis but today he played bad. It's as simple as that.
And nadal got lucky with cord and lines. And played some marvelous tennis on both offense and defense.

 

[Mike Sams]

Federer broke Nadal's serve but proceeded to get broken back immediately. It happened a few times. Federer is becoming very easy to break.

 

[TennisFan3]

Most Nadal fans realize that there is no glory in this since they both sucked ass today, outmugging eachother.

I'm sure some will troll in the next few hours but the Fedal rivalry has lost so much steam that people can't even get upset or riled up anymore.

I agree 100% with this. The quality of tennis from Nadal wasn't anything to feel happy about. He even played better against Berdych..

 

[TennisFan3]

I agree, who's gonna beat him besides Dokovic?

Yeah..but if he continues getting beaten by Djokovic in the final of every slam, how will he manage to win slams? Everyone has a breaking points, you can only lose so many times.

 

[wimble10]

gilbert/becker smackdown

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T17zqevDMBw

 

[Towser83]

I agree 100% with this. The quality of tennis from Nadal wasn't anything to feel happy about. He even played better against Berdych..

He had about 6 great passing shots in the match that totally rattled Federer or were played at crucial times. Apart from that and a few games in the first set by Federer, both players played average and it was one of the poorest Fedal matches I've seen.

But Nadal will feel he has his mojo back. Beating Federer is like a tonic for him.

 

[Towser83]

Federer broke Nadal's serve but proceeded to get broken back immediately. It happened a few times. Federer is becoming very easy to break.

Yeah his serves don't trouble people like before and he really loses concentration. It's like he sometimes can't adjust from recieving to serving. He looked better this week but Nadal brings out the worst in him.

 

[CCNM]

I heard they were all big hug-nicey-nice after the match. If that's true then I'm happy

 

[mrDamien]

Well done Nadal. Vamos! Congrats!

 

[Crisstti]

Nadal won a total of 146 points. 34 of those were winners. And 63 were unforced errors by Federer. So that leaves us with 49 forced errors by Federer, I suppose.

So Nadal's winners + the errors he forced on Federer add up to 83. Which means that 57% of the points won by Nadal in this match were won directly by his own play -- not by Federer's errors -- but somehow he did this just by "putting the ball back in play".

I don't know what match you watched. They were both hitting well and deep most of the time. Federer was pulling more triggers than Nadal, which is why he made more errors, but also had more winners. And by the way, errors made when pulling a trigger should be distinguished from errors made when trying to do nothing special. The first category is far from "ridiculous" and a good portion of his errors belong to that category.

It seems to me there was nothing wrong with Federer's plan. He tried to play his game. The execution came a bit short, but whose game should he try to play? I thought he played pretty well (except for the second set) and it was all a matter of a few key points here and there.

Clap, clap, clap.

great thing about the challenge system is We don't have to listen to these kind of theatrics by McEnroe:

Lol . That can still happen on clay though.

You did not even watch the match so what do you know? Fed was attacking rafas 2nd serve he was coming in often and hitting to nadals backhand repeatedly. He did change his tactics and still lost.

True.

Sometimes fed could easily have finished some valuable points but he always allowed nadal to hit the ball back. That smatch nadal returned on the line, 2 fh down the line at bp in 3rd set, etc.
The excessive margin of security he took in this match combined with the low speed of the court cost him the match, mental aspect of his failure today aside. He should have finished some points in the way he used to dominate before. So, Imo, he simply didnt elevate his level of tennis as we would expect him to do when facing nadal. Serve, returns, volley, everything went wrong. The weird thing is that he resisted with his bh today. But the rest was average.

Maybe peak federer was superior to anything we'll see in tennis but today he played bad. It's as simple as that.
And nadal got lucky with cord and lines. And played some marvelous tennis on both offense and defense.

When has he ever managed to do that against Rafa?.

Yeah..but if he continues getting beaten by Djokovic in the final of every slam, how will he manage to win slams? Everyone has a breaking points, you can only lose so many times.

Maybe he won't continue getting beaten. Maybe he will and will still stick around and win some more slams, like Fed has done.

Didn't he play deep for most of the match?, it's one of the things you've complained the most he wasn't doing.

Maybe you guys should just be a little happy about the match, about the result. It's the result you wanted, isn't it?. Enjoy it

I heard they were all big hug-nicey-nice after the match. If that's true then I'm happy

I hope so. It seems like things are fine from the way Rafa talked about Roger in the press conference. Saying he's been unlucky lately, that he could have won more slams, that he was tired today. He was making excuses for him.

 

[NamRanger]

Nadal won a total of 146 points. 34 of those were winners. And 63 were unforced errors by Federer. So that leaves us with 49 forced errors by Federer, I suppose.

So Nadal's winners + the errors he forced on Federer add up to 83. Which means that 57% of the points won by Nadal in this match were won directly by his own play -- not by Federer's errors -- but somehow he did this just by "putting the ball back in play".

I don't know what match you watched. They were both hitting well and deep most of the time. Federer was pulling more triggers than Nadal, which is why he made more errors, but also had more winners. And by the way, errors made when pulling a trigger should be distinguished from errors made when trying to do nothing special. The first category is far from "ridiculous" and a good portion of his errors belong to that category.

It seems to me there was nothing wrong with Federer's plan. He tried to play his game. The execution came a bit short, but whose game should he try to play? I thought he played pretty well (except for the second set) and it was all a matter of a few key points here and there.

The whole gameplan that Federer had in the first set was fine. The gameplan in sets 2 3 and 4 were totally wrong, since he just simply abandoned it after he went into full panic mode (which is what he normally does). Unless Federer stays absolutely on top of Nadal the entire time in the match, he will almost always find a way to lose literally 99.9% of the time. The .01% time that he still won despite going into full panic mode was in Miami in 2005, which was against a very young and inexperienced Nadal who still wasn't as good or as strong as he is now (he was tired at the end of the 5th in that final).


Federer's inability to STICK to the plan is what gets him killed alot. Nadal KNOWS his gameplan and sticks to it. He may make slight adjustments in order to adapt to his opponent, however his overall goals remain the same. Make Federer hit alot of balls, keep alot of length, alot of spin, and simply play solid high percentage tennis. Federer has done everything against Nadal from going all out attack tennis, kamakazie into the net, trying to drop shot him constantly, trying to play defensive grinding style of tennis, etc. all in the same match.


And honestly, it is NOT that difficult to beat Nadal in terms of gameplan. You just have to execute extremely well. Federer however for whatever reason goes into full panic mode everytime Nadal makes the match close, and tries some of the dumbest things I have ever seen, completely abandoning the gameplan that got him the lead in the first place.

 

[nadalwon2012]

And even Federer's gameplan in the first set almost lost the set.

 

[nadalwon2012]

You know what's hilarious? Federer and Nadal could play again at Wimbledon or US Open this year and still the polls would be lopsided in favor of "Federer in 4" :lol :lol:

Definitely, and the betting odds would probably favor Federer too after Federer beats someone 6-3 6-2 6-1 in a previous round. People never learn. But that makes it more fun, to read the media's reactions when Nadal wins.

Hewitt thought Federer would win because the AO at night 'plays like an indoor hardcourt'.

 

[snr]

He overuses the dropshot I find.. it reminded me so much of the USO 2009 Finals against Del Potro.

Fed would be in a good position to blast a forehand winner but instead decides to get cute with a dropshot that nets. Then he probably gets pissed and then becomes ******** for a bit, and then after error-ing goes into panic mode.

 

[tlm]

Sometimes fed could easily have finished some valuable points but he always allowed nadal to hit the ball back. That smatch nadal returned on the line, 2 fh down the line at bp in 3rd set, etc.
The excessive margin of security he took in this match combined with the low speed of the court cost him the match, mental aspect of his failure today aside. He should have finished some points in the way he used to dominate before. So, Imo, he simply didnt elevate his level of tennis as we would expect him to do when facing nadal. Serve, returns, volley, everything went wrong. The weird thing is that he resisted with his bh today. But the rest was average.

Maybe peak federer was superior to anything we'll see in tennis but today he played bad. It's as simple as that.
And nadal got lucky with cord and lines. And played some marvelous tennis on both offense and defense.

Nadal got lucky my ***, he outplayed fed plain and simple. Nadal also did not finish valuable points that he should have. But of course you only see the mistakes fed makes.

And what in the world would make think fed could raise his level of tennis high enough to beat rafa in a major? That is hilarious i think it is time you checked out the last time fed could raise his level above rafas in a grand slam.

 

[tlm]

The whole gameplan that Federer had in the first set was fine. The gameplan in sets 2 3 and 4 were totally wrong, since he just simply abandoned it after he went into full panic mode (which is what he normally does). Unless Federer stays absolutely on top of Nadal the entire time in the match, he will almost always find a way to lose literally 99.9% of the time. The .01% time that he still won despite going into full panic mode was in Miami in 2005, which was against a very young and inexperienced Nadal who still wasn't as good or as strong as he is now (he was tired at the end of the 5th in that final).


Federer's inability to STICK to the plan is what gets him killed alot. Nadal KNOWS his gameplan and sticks to it. He may make slight adjustments in order to adapt to his opponent, however his overall goals remain the same. Make Federer hit alot of balls, keep alot of length, alot of spin, and simply play solid high percentage tennis. Federer has done everything against Nadal from going all out attack tennis, kamakazie into the net, trying to drop shot him constantly, trying to play defensive grinding style of tennis, etc. all in the same match.


And honestly, it is NOT that difficult to beat Nadal in terms of gameplan. You just have to execute extremely well. Federer however for whatever reason goes into full panic mode everytime Nadal makes the match close, and tries some of the dumbest things I have ever seen, completely abandoning the gameplan that got him the lead in the first place.

Wow so it is not that difficult to beat nadal as far as gameplan goes huh. This is hilarious, you should obviously be coaching the top players and show them how easy it is to beat rafa.

 

[NamRanger]

And even Federer's gameplan in the first set almost lost the set.

He started to abandon it after Nadal made it close. The way you beat Nadal is you expose him off his predictable backhand side, which Novak Djokovic does perfectly by making Nadal cough up short balls in backhand to backhand exchanges and forehand to backhand exchanges. Djokovic KNOWS he can get away with Nadal basically never trying to go for a winner with his backhand, and thus whenever he is in trouble, he almost always goes to that side.


Federer for whatever reason, abandons his plan totally and starts trying to win backhand to forehand rallies like a complete idiot; that's a plan that will never work in a best of 5.

Wow so it is not that difficult to beat nadal as far as gameplan goes huh. This is hilarious, you should obviously be coaching the top players and show them how easy it is to beat rafa.

As far as strategy and gameplan, it's not that hard. The hard part is being able to consistently execute the plan at a high level over 5 sets (if necessary). Djokovic as of late is the only one who has been able to do it; however Federer is all well and capable of doing such a thing. The only issue he has is that he totally goes into full panic mode every time the match is close.

 

[tlm]

He started to abandon it after Nadal made it close. The way you beat Nadal is you expose him off his predictable backhand side, which Novak Djokovic does perfectly by making Nadal cough up short balls in backhand to backhand exchanges and forehand to backhand exchanges. Djokovic KNOWS he can get away with Nadal basically never trying to go for a winner with his backhand, and thus whenever he is in trouble, he almost always goes to that side.


Federer for whatever reason, abandons his plan totally and starts trying to win backhand to forehand rallies like a complete idiot; that's a plan that will never work in a best of 5.






As far as strategy and gameplan, it's not that hard. The hard part is being able to consistently execute the plan at a high level over 5 sets (if necessary). Djokovic as of late is the only one who has been able to do it; however Federer is all well and capable of doing such a thing. The only issue he has is that he totally goes into full panic mode every time the match is close.

Okay but if a guy has to play at that high of a level then maybe it is not the best gameplan.

And yes joker has been the only one who has played at that high level tennis for an entire match. But i think it is more because of the super level of tennis joker has played, not his gameplan.

 

[wimble10]

He overuses the dropshot I find.. it reminded me so much of the USO 2009 Finals against Del Potro.

Fed would be in a good position to blast a forehand winner but instead decides to get cute with a dropshot that nets.

If it's a good dropper then it's probably just as good as an approach shot. It does seem a little lazy though. It's one of my favorite shots to watch.

 

[NamRanger]

Okay but if a guy has to play at that high of a level then maybe it is not the best gameplan.

And yes joker has been the only one who has played at that high level tennis for an entire match. But i think it is more because of the super level of tennis joker has played, not his gameplan.

Of course it's not his gameplan. Nadal has the most simplistic strategic gameplan in the world; there's nothing interesting or creative about his shot selection/strategy. He is just plain out ruthless and effective.


Nadal basically THROWS the gameplan out the window. He forces you to play that style of tennis because of his athleticism and determination to win. That is the ONLY way to beat him. You have to sustain such an incredibly high level of tennis over such a long period of time to beat him. The times Nadal has lost in slams, it is usually because he has been utterly blitzed to death and he has almost 0 answers.

The only two guys who cleanly beat Nadal without any kind of "blitz" gameplay are David Ferrer, and Novak Djokovic. Novak Djokovic is just a freak of nature, and David Ferrer has an unbreakable will that rivals that of Nadal's.

 

[tlm]

Of course it's not his gameplan. Nadal has the most simplistic strategic gameplan in the world; there's nothing interesting or creative about his shot selection/strategy. He is just plain out ruthless and effective.


Nadal basically THROWS the gameplan out the window. He forces you to play that style of tennis because of his athleticism and determination to win. That is the ONLY way to beat him. You have to sustain such an incredibly high level of tennis over such a long period of time to beat him. The times Nadal has lost in slams, it is usually because he has been utterly blitzed to death and he has almost 0 answers.

The only two guys who cleanly beat Nadal without any kind of "blitz" gameplay are David Ferrer, and Novak Djokovic. Novak Djokovic is just a freak of nature, and David Ferrer has an unbreakable will that rivals that of Nadal's.

I would say i agree with most of this post.

 

[wimble10]

I think Nadal is an amazing tactician. He breaks down his opponents until they have nothing left.

 

[TheTruth]

Of all the explanations I’ve seen as to why Federer often loses to Nadal, this is the oddest and most deserving of elaboration. Federer’s loyalty to elegance at all costs is his undoing. Maintaining the proper lines of the ballet arabesque when stretching for volleys causes him to net them. And he stubbornly refuses to bend down as much as he should on certain low balls, for fear of being photographed in a humiliating position. In addition, he hasn't understood the benefits of the grimace: that timely distortion of the countenance in the whole-body mechanics of energy transfer to the playing hand. Bad karma pents up in his bosom by his refusal to let it out in periodic grunts. And worst of all, his boundless vanity dictates that no-sweat wins are the only wins worth having, so he commands his sudoriferous ducts to contract and hold all the sweat inside, allowing toxins to accumulate in his body as the match progresses. In short, he is defeated and poisoned by vanity.

This is so true. Federer wants to maintain his "image." He's said as much. It's not brain cramps that Federer gets against Nadal. It is vanity. He wants to beat Rafa like he beats the rest of them. Hit some insane shots and watch their shoulders sag. Then he goes into full acrobatic mode, dancing around the court making his opponent a spectator. Sometimes he tries to use shots that will debilitate Rafa, but it doesn't work. Rafa knows what the rest of them don't seem to understand, no matter how gifted the point, it only counts for one point, and after it's over you move on to the next point. He never allows himself to be distracted by Federer's "genius." That's to his credit.

So many times Federer could win a point against Rafa, but he wants to do to Rafa what he wants to do to the others. It will never work and that's the dynamic we keep seeing over and over again.

 

[nadalwon2012]

delete post

 

[TennisLovaLova]

^^^ we saw what happened in london a month ago.

 

[nadalwon2012]

Here's some more stats from last night:

Average 1st Serve Speed:
Federer 185 KMH
Nadal 172 KMH

Break Point Conversions:
Federer 3 of 10 = 30 %
Nadal 6 of 16 = 38 %

Winners:
Federer 46
Nadal 36

Net Approaches:
Federer 35 of 57 = 61 %
Nadal 5 of 15 = 33 %

 

[Marius_Hancu]

What did Wilander say yesterday that he had to apologize today on ESPN?

Guess criticizing Fed towards the end?

 

[Apun94]

hahahahaha!!

 

[Bartelby]

Uncle Toni's football/soccer tactics are key.

I think Nadal is an amazing tactician. He breaks down his opponents until they have nothing left.

 

[Benhur]

Sometimes fed could easily have finished some valuable points but he always allowed nadal to hit the ball back. That smatch nadal returned on the line, 2 fh down the line at bp in 3rd set, etc.
The excessive margin of security he took in this match combined with the low speed of the court cost him the match, mental aspect of his failure today aside. He should have finished some points in the way he used to dominate before. So, Imo, he simply didnt elevate his level of tennis as we would expect him to do when facing nadal. Serve, returns, volley, everything went wrong. The weird thing is that he resisted with his bh today. But the rest was average.

Maybe peak federer was superior to anything we'll see in tennis but today he played bad. It's as simple as that.
And nadal got lucky with cord and lines. And played some marvelous tennis on both offense and defense.

I don’t think Federer played with too much margin of security at all. On the contrary, he kept going for aggressive shots, and a great part of his high error count (63) is due to this fact. I don’t remember him going into full safety mode for any long stretch.

Federer won 74% of his points directly by his own play (winners + errors he forced on Nadal). Nadal won 57% of his points that way. So clearly Federer was considerably more aggressive, even if Nadal was not exactly passive.

The difference in the match was the number of errors Federer made by missing when going for big shots, compared with how many Nadal missed for the same reason. The other part of it is the amount of great shots Federer made that Nadal somehow managed to retrieve or even turn into winners, shots that would have won Federer the point against most people.

Failure to execute a plan is different from abandoning your plan. Federer stuck to his plan, I think. He could not quite execute it, but wasn't too far either.

 

[Benhur]

This is so true. Federer wants to maintain his "image." He's said as much. It's not brain cramps that Federer gets against Nadal. It is vanity. He wants to beat Rafa like he beats the rest of them. Hit some insane shots and watch their shoulders sag. Then he goes into full acrobatic mode, dancing around the court making his opponent a spectator. Sometimes he tries to use shots that will debilitate Rafa, but it doesn't work. Rafa knows what the rest of them don't seem to understand, no matter how gifted the point, it only counts for one point, and after it's over you move on to the next point. He never allows himself to be distracted by Federer's "genius." That's to his credit.

So many times Federer could win a point against Rafa, but he wants to do to Rafa what he wants to do to the others. It will never work and that's the dynamic we keep seeing over and over again.

Well, it's true that Federer’s demeanor on court may look a bit coquettish sometimes, but I don't really believe this is contrived. Nor do I think his elegant style of play is the result of a conscious plan to play elegantly. Even when he is forced to play defense (which he can do pretty well by the way) there seems to be a poise, an extra balance, a lightness of foot to the scrambling not often seen in other players. But that’s just his natural style, and it is indeed aesthetically pleasant to watch when he is playing well. In any case, I was speaking a little bit with my tongue on my cheek on that post. I don’t really think that adopting a coarser style, whatever it might involve, would help Federer in any way.
But I also think that aesthetic judgment in tennis may be unduly influenced by the established patterns of activities, like dancing, skating etc, where smoothness of movement is one of the main goal and an important measure by which performance is judged, unlike tennis, where the only goal and measure is to win the point. And it's all very subjective as well. I happen to find Nadal’s shotmaking extremely impressive and pleasant to watch when he takes the initiative, while others find it a profanation of the altars of beauty. Many people found Sampras game ravishing to watch. I agree he was a phenomenally skilled player, but somehow I got easily bored watching him.

 

[Crisstti]

Nadal got lucky my ***, he outplayed fed plain and simple. Nadal also did not finish valuable points that he should have. But of course you only see the mistakes fed makes.

And what in the world would make think fed could raise his level of tennis high enough to beat rafa in a major? That is hilarious i think it is time you checked out the last time fed could raise his level above rafas in a grand slam.

Yeah. Plus, Nadal lucky with netcords?. I remember it was Fed who mainly hit netcords.

Federer for whatever reason, abandons his plan totally and starts trying to win backhand to forehand rallies like a complete idiot; that's a plan that will never work in a best of 5.

As far as strategy and gameplan, it's not that hard. The hard part is being able to consistently execute the plan at a high level over 5 sets (if necessary). Djokovic as of late is the only one who has been able to do it; however Federer is all well and capable of doing such a thing. The only issue he has is that he totally goes into full panic mode every time the match is close.

From Rafa's press conference:

I didn't play as I played hundreds of times against him. I didn't play all the time against his backhand like I did a lot of times.
Today I think I played more normal match, playing in his backhand, playing in his forehand, too.
I really wanted to do that before the match, because I felt that in the last match against him in London he played very aggressive with his backhand, so he was very inside the court. Was very difficult for me to find, you know, spaces to move him, no?
Even the final of Roland Garros, the same. He played more aggressive with his backhand. On clay is different. You have more time.
But today went on court with the idea change a little bit more the direction against him, and in my opinion it worked well. Because I think he was a little bit tired.

About Federer playing too cute or whatever, I don't think I agree. That is his game. How else is he supposed to play?.

Well, it's true that Federer’s demeanor on court may look a bit coquettish sometimes, but I don't really believe this is contrived. Nor do I think his elegant style of play is the result of a conscious plan to play elegantly. Even when he is forced to play defense (which he can do pretty well by the way) there seems to be a poise, an extra balance, a lightness of foot to the scrambling not often seen in other players. But that’s just his natural style, and it is indeed aesthetically pleasant to watch when he is playing well. In any case, I was speaking a little bit with my tongue on my cheek on that post. I don’t really think that adopting a coarser style, whatever it might involve, would help Federer in any way.
But I also think that aesthetic judgment in tennis may be unduly influenced by the established patterns of activities, like dancing, skating etc, where smoothness of movement is one of the main goal and an important measure by which performance is judged, unlike tennis, where the only goal and measure is to win the point. And it's all very subjective as well. I happen to find Nadal’s shotmaking extremely impressive and pleasant to watch when he takes the initiative, while others find it a profanation of the altars of beauty. Many people found Sampras game ravishing to watch. I agree he was a phenomenally skilled player, but somehow I got easily bored watching him.

Good post.

 

[DjokovicForTheWin]

This is so true. Federer wants to maintain his "image." He's said as much. It's not brain cramps that Federer gets against Nadal. It is vanity. He wants to beat Rafa like he beats the rest of them. Hit some insane shots and watch their shoulders sag. Then he goes into full acrobatic mode, dancing around the court making his opponent a spectator. Sometimes he tries to use shots that will debilitate Rafa, but it doesn't work. Rafa knows what the rest of them don't seem to understand, no matter how gifted the point, it only counts for one point, and after it's over you move on to the next point. He never allows himself to be distracted by Federer's "genius." That's to his credit.

So many times Federer could win a point against Rafa, but he wants to do to Rafa what he wants to do to the others. It will never work and that's the dynamic we keep seeing over and over again.

Yup instead of those idiotic fancy droppers or acrobatic insane angles or whatever, all he needs to do is pound the ball where Rafa is not, don't try to outguess. Sure Rafa will reach it, but then you pound to other corner. Just keep it simple Fed and you can win.

 

[mandy01]

Now we know why he lost :lol:
Seriously though, I find it surprising that Roger wanted the girls in such close proximity during the match(es). Well, they certainly have the best view of their daddy out there :lol:

 

[TheTruth]

Well, it's true that Federer’s demeanor on court may look a bit coquettish sometimes, but I don't really believe this is contrived. Nor do I think his elegant style of play is the result of a conscious plan to play elegantly. Even when he is forced to play defense (which he can do pretty well by the way) there seems to be a poise, an extra balance, a lightness of foot to the scrambling not often seen in other players. But that’s just his natural style, and it is indeed aesthetically pleasant to watch when he is playing well. In any case, I was speaking a little bit with my tongue on my cheek on that post. I don’t really think that adopting a coarser style, whatever it might involve, would help Federer in any way.
But I also think that aesthetic judgment in tennis may be unduly influenced by the established patterns of activities, like dancing, skating etc, where smoothness of movement is one of the main goal and an important measure by which performance is judged, unlike tennis, where the only goal and measure is to win the point. And it's all very subjective as well. I happen to find Nadal’s shotmaking extremely impressive and pleasant to watch when he takes the initiative, while others find it a profanation of the altars of beauty. Many people found Sampras game ravishing to watch. I agree he was a phenomenally skilled player, but somehow I got easily bored watching him.

I feel it is contrived, brought about when he started winning on a regular basis. It may be his innate personality, but it has indeed been pruned for the public. Before Federer started winning, he didn't act the way he does now. He acted pretty regular, imo.

But, I know what you mean. I was one of the ones who loved watching Pete play. I don't get the same feeling with Roger. While he is a phenomenally skilled tennis player something about his tennis and personality is a major turnoff for me. Unless he's playing Rafa, Novak, or Andy M., there is no way I can watch him for the duration of an entire match.

 

[Fay]

I feel it is contrived, brought about when he started winning on a regular basis. It may be his innate personality, but it has indeed been pruned for the public. Before Federer started winning, he didn't act the way he does now. He acted pretty regular, imo.

But, I know what you mean. I was one of the ones who loved watching Pete play. I don't get the same feeling with Roger. While he is a phenomenally skilled tennis player something about his tennis and personality is a major turnoff for me. Unless he's playing Rafa, Novak, or Andy M., there is no way I can watch him for the duration of an entire match.

If I want to study technique I go to YouTube for Roger F., Pete S., Pancho G., etc.

I think Roger is both athletically sound and also that he very carefully chose not to do things which aggravate his joints. I notice on 1-H BH, and BH slice, he rarely takes bicep above the shoulder line. Sometimes but not often, where many do. Roger has a tad different serve, a full service motion and poetry in motion, but just a tad different.

I being a skater know about effortless flow. that is what elite skaters try to achieve. I think it comes to Roger because he has very efficient technique and technique which is not prone to injury, hence one reason I watch his stuff in slo mo and try to use his technique as a guide.

I think Roger treats his opponents well, but his elite commercials did turn me off a bit, and some of his interviews when he was no. 1

But he obviously has worked very hard like all of the others who have won Grand Slams and hats off to him to win more. But unless Rafa is injured he absolutely exerts to the ultimate to get to every ball and I have to admire that. Anyone who has read his book will understand the "face" he brings to his game. Basically shy and insecure he has to pump himself up or I don't think he would have gotten this far. Can't imagine Rafa becoming arrogant.

And as recently as this weekend, he gave Roger his due and paid a compliment to Novak as well.

 

[Mike Sams]

I feel it is contrived, brought about when he started winning on a regular basis. It may be his innate personality, but it has indeed been pruned for the public. Before Federer started winning, he didn't act the way he does now. He acted pretty regular, imo.

But, I know what you mean. I was one of the ones who loved watching Pete play. I don't get the same feeling with Roger. While he is a phenomenally skilled tennis player something about his tennis and personality is a major turnoff for me. Unless he's playing Rafa, Novak, or Andy M., there is no way I can watch him for the duration of an entire match.

I only watch Federer if he's playing Djokovic, Murray, Nadal, Del Potro, Nalbandian, Berdych, and Tsonga. Basically the only guys on the tour who can trouble him immensely. All the other guys he faces like Ferrer, Soderling, Monfils, and the rest of the tour don't inspire me to watch. I might just read the score after.

 

[ttbrowne]

No TB in the 5th, oops :twisted:

Oops...and I was picking Rafa to win, not Fed.

 

[TheTruth]

If I want to study technique I go to YouTube for Roger F., Pete S., Pancho G., etc.

I think Roger is both athletically sound and also that he very carefully chose not to do things which aggravate his joints. I notice on 1-H BH, and BH slice, he rarely takes bicep above the shoulder line. Sometimes but not often, where many do. Roger has a tad different serve, a full service motion and poetry in motion, but just a tad different.

I being a skater know about effortless flow. that is what elite skaters try to achieve. I think it comes to Roger because he has very efficient technique and technique which is not prone to injury, hence one reason I watch his stuff in slo mo and try to use his technique as a guide.

I think Roger treats his opponents well, but his elite commercials did turn me off a bit, and some of his interviews when he was no. 1

But he obviously has worked very hard like all of the others who have won Grand Slams and hats off to him to win more. But unless Rafa is injured he absolutely exerts to the ultimate to get to every ball and I have to admire that. Anyone who has read his book will understand the "face" he brings to his game. Basically shy and insecure he has to pump himself up or I don't think he would have gotten this far. Can't imagine Rafa becoming arrogant.

And as recently as this weekend, he gave Roger his due and paid a compliment to Novak as well.

Nice post, Fay. Can't disagree with anything that you've said.

 

[TheTruth]

I only watch Federer if he's playing Djokovic, Murray, Nadal, Del Potro, Nalbandian, Berdych, and Tsonga. Basically the only guys on the tour who can trouble him immensely. All the other guys he faces like Ferrer, Soderling, Monfils, and the rest of the tour don't inspire me to watch. I might just read the score after.

That's actually my list too. No point in watching great tennis against a mediocre effort from an opponent.

 

[cc0509]

That's actually my list too. No point in watching great tennis against a mediocre effort from an opponent.

So I suppose that means you don't watch Nadal when he plays many people on tour such as his fellow Spaniards who fold like a cheap tent before they walk on the court to play him. At least if you are going to make a statement make sure it makes some sense first.

 

[mehdimike]

OMG, what a horror movie point!!

Actually it was a great point in terms of defensive skills