20 year old Rafa wouldnt have negative h2h against 36 old Djokovic

Razs form and game have regressed so much since wimby. It's not the same player. Generally speaking , if you look at 2022 and 2023 overall, he's been quite patchy outside of the 2 slam titles and a few good months in the spring sections.

Great spring 2022
Bad lead up into uso 2022, then won uso 2022.
Bad form fall 2022.
Good spring 2023 outside of rg.
Won wimby 2023(greatest win by a new gen player), and bad form since.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
Razs form and game have regressed so much since wimby. It's not the same player. Generally speaking , if you look at 2022 and 2023 overall, he's been quite patchy outside of the 2 slam titles and a few good months in the spring sections.

Great spring 2022
Bad lead up into uso 2022, then won uso 2022.
Bad form fall 2022.
Good spring 2023 outside of rg.
Won wimby 2023(greatest win by a new gen player), and bad form since.
Why "outside of rg"? Is reaching the semifinals, only losing to the GOAT and eventual champion, not a respectable result anymore?
 

Mazz Retic

Hall of Fame
The thread is asserting that 20y Nadal would beat Djokovic at Wimbledon like Alcaraz did.
Even if I agree with that, which I’m not sure I do, Nadal would still be 2-2 with him this season. He’s winning their FO encounter but losing Tour finals and Cincinnati.
 

Martin J

Hall of Fame
Re their respective YEC performances, Nadal matches better against Federer than against Novak, so he'll make the match competitive even against the best version of Fed, which was the case at 2006 Masters Cup.
Still, Fed was at the peak of is physical strength and had a perfect indoors record that year, 17-0 (lost only 3 sets), winning Basel, Madrid Masters and Masters Cup, plus two Davis Cup play-off matches, so overcoming him under the roof was a very tough challenge (though Roddick almost beat him at MC). And Nadal did perform better against Federer than Carols did against Djokovic, so he has the edge.

Both guys would've had to work pretty hard in the finals had they passed the SF, Sinner has the upper hand against Alcaraz and Blake was a formidable opponent for Nadal on HC (indoor or outdoor).
 
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Mivic

Hall of Fame
Re their respective YEC performances, Nadal matches better against Federer than against Novak, so he'll make the match competitive even against the best version of Fed, which was the case at 2006 Masters Cup.
Still, Fed was at the peak of is physical strength and had a perfect indoors record that year, 17-0 (lost only 3 sets), winning Basel, Madrid Masters and Masters Cup, plus two Davis Cup play-off matches, so overcoming him under the roof was a very tough challenge (though Roddick almost beat him at MC). And Nadal did perform better against Federer than Carols did against Djokovic, so he has the edge.

Both guys would've had to work pretty hard in the finals had they passed the SF, Sinner has the upper hand against Alcaraz and Blake was a formidable opponent for Nadal on HC (indoor or outdoor).
Watching the highlights back I think conditions in 2006 were more medium paced compared to this year where they’re very fast which probably makes Alcaraz look a bit worse. Pretty sure 2006 Nadal would look fairly useless in these conditions himself, though I agree he deserves the benefit of the doubt considering he didn’t acquit himself badly against peak Fed.
 
Razs form and game have regressed so much since wimby. It's not the same player. Generally speaking , if you look at 2022 and 2023 overall, he's been quite patchy outside of the 2 slam titles and a few good months in the spring sections.

Great spring 2022
Bad lead up into uso 2022, then won uso 2022.
Bad form fall 2022.
Good spring 2023 outside of rg.
Won wimby 2023(greatest win by a new gen player), and bad form since.
I don't think Raz is winning USO 22 with 23 Med and Djoko in the draw.

So his powerplay is essentially IW to RG in the slower part of the season, which this year was further expended with Wimbledon, Cincy final and YEC semi, though he was quite bad after Wimbledon.

Looking a bit the Nadal way so far, lol.
 
Why "outside of rg"? Is reaching the semifinals, only losing to the GOAT and eventual champion, not a respectable result anymore?
It was the manner of the rg loss cramping up facing a 36 year old. At the time he was expected to win this match.
His results overall especially without having to face other upcoming atgs do raise concerns over whether raz is a future atg candidate.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
36 year old Djokovic gives a masterclass tennis lesson and ttw disrespects him with this thread. Lol. Nadal didn't even make a hardcourt Slam SF until he was 21 and a half. Alcaraz not only did it at 19, but he won one. No chance 2006 Nadal would beat Sinner or Djokovic here.

Not nearly as disrespectful as ultronians making another nonsensical goat thread to disrespect/insults other ATG athlete like Messi, Jordan, Federer, Nadal....
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I don’t think you’ve been paying close enough attention then because I’ve seen plenty of people say/insinuate that lol :X3:

And that’s kind of the point. People are saying that Tiny Carl is better on grass “because he won Wimby” without factoring in the level of opposition faced. Outside of Fed 06 RAFA didn’t have a tough draw, but neither did Carl. And the difference between their Fs opponents is massive. No matter how you slice it Carl’s not beating 06 Fed, whereas I absolutely see 06 RAFA beating the Joker who “showed up” in this year’s F. Besides, 06 Fed forced almost as many errors as he had winners.
They bring up straight setting Rune, but 2006 Baghdatis > Rune anyway and Nadal routined him in the semis too.
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
It was the manner of the rg loss cramping up facing a 36 year old. At the time he was expected to win this match.
His results overall especially without having to face other upcoming atgs do raise concerns over whether raz is a future atg candidate.
Alcaraz is not only having physical cramps but also mental ones.
:oops:
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I love the narrative change for Fed and Nadal fans...instead of actual results its always "peak" mumbo jumbo in an attempt to overcome the data. A players resume is based on their cumulative match performance history across a decade or more. You cant take a "slice" to copy and paste a different outcome. Your results dont count for more through style points or any other narrative change...
The Djokodal fans used context for years to explain away Fed's numbers.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
The difference is Alcaraz didn't have 3 matches against qualifiers or wildcards. He faced the best possible players he could face in this grass era. Hurkacz would have been tougher but Djokovic took care of him for him. Nadal wasn't playing the best possible players he could have faced in 2006. That's the difference.
2006 Baghdatis > 2023 Rune.
 

SonnyT

Legend
Nadal, while still 20, had a whopping 7-3 H2H vs prime Federer!

.
Because Federer took his dominance on the rallies as superiority of play, so he rushed the net. Nadal, in such a situation, only hoped for his opponent to come to the net so he could pass him.

Djokovic just kept on the dominance of the rallies until it won him the point. I don't know if that was a feasible option to Federer, because he was the least steady on the rallies,
 

Neptune

Hall of Fame
I love the narrative change for Fed and Nadal fans...instead of actual results its always "peak" mumbo jumbo in an attempt to overcome the data. A players resume is based on their cumulative match performance history across a decade or more. You cant take a "slice" to copy and paste a different outcome. Your results dont count for more through style points or any other narrative change...

Fedal fans need too many hypothetical wins/titles to decorate Fedal resumes. LOL
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Still close to nothing LOL. Overall rankings don't reflect ability on grass.
Kendrick was 4-14 on grass and beat nobody. Jarry is at least 8-9 with 2 wins over a top player. You're really making the case for a qualifier being on the level of a top 20 guy...
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Kendrick was 4-14 on grass and beat nobody. Jarry is at least 8-9 with 2 wins over a top player. You're really making the case for a qualifier being on the level of a top 20 guy...
Are we really hyping up Jarry now? LOL.

No, I'm just saying that being top 20 doesn't mean anything for grass, hence why we've had non-top players show their best level on grass and why we used to have Wimby specific rankings.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Are we really hyping up Jarry now? LOL.

No, I'm just saying that being top 20 doesn't mean anything for grass, hence why we've had non-top players show their best level on grass and why we used to have Wimby specific rankings.
Well he's certainly better than someone ranked #242 in the world, unless you live on Pluto.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Well he's certainly better than someone ranked #242 in the world, unless you live on Pluto.
Nadal struggled in the early rounds, that is well known. It doesn't mean anything in the long run. Even in his best years he struggled.

Jarry would probably not even have the mental strength to beat him anyway.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Nadal struggled in the early rounds, that is well known. It doesn't mean anything in the long run. Even in his best years he struggled.

Jarry would probably not even have the mental strength to beat him anyway.
This conversation is pointless so I'm abandoning it.
 

The Blond Blur

G.O.A.T.
They bring up straight setting Rune, but 2006 Baghdatis > Rune anyway and Nadal routined him in the semis too.
Right? And that’s not even factoring in that Rune had tough 5 and 4 set matches the previous 2 rounds playing in his 2nd Wimby ever. Add in the fact that his season was pedantic for most of the year and I’m not seeing what I should be impressed with. At least Baggy made a GS F earlier in the year. Rune let freaking Medvedev win Rome lol.
daniil-medvedev-clay.gif


RAFA’s 06 draw wasn’t tough but most of Carl’s draw consisted of: out of form players, guys who suck grass, and guys who are inexperienced on grass. Playing 06 Peakerer instead of 23 Zombieovic by default makes RAFA’s 06 tougher.

And for all this talk of 23 Tiny Carl being able to take it 06 Fed you’d have to believe that 23 Joker is playing at a similar (or greater) level to him…and if people actually believe that then they might as well get “Don’t take anything I say about tennis seriously.” tattooed on their foreheads lol. Case and point:
Prime Fed is NO Nole.
Lol
 
Add in the fact that his season was pedantic for most of the year and I’m not seeing what I should be impressed with.

One of the funniest sentences written on this site. Imagine being so arrogant -- as a likely 3.0 club player who's old, fat, slow and pathetically weak -- that you write "his season was pedantic" and then turn your nose up about not being impressed by a top player's season.

Hilarious. Absolutely hilarious.
 

The Blond Blur

G.O.A.T.
One of the funniest sentences written on this site. Imagine being so arrogant -- as a likely 3.0 club player who's old, fat, slow and pathetically weak -- that you write "his season was pedantic" and then turn your nose up about not being impressed by a top player's season.

Hilarious. Absolutely hilarious.
Lol who peed in your Cheerios dude? It’s always so funny when trolls on the internet get their panties in a bunch they automatically attack your physical appearance. I’m 32, 6ft tall, weigh 165lbs, and can run a 15k in just little over an hour. But thanks for checking in on my exercise routine (y)

I’m not judging Rune based on how he would compete against me in tennis. I’m judging him based on his performance vs past great players. Besides, if he were to try my profession he’d look equally (if not more so) incompetent.
 
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