2004 a significantly better year than 2014 in men's tennis

abmk

Bionic Poster
2004 vs 2014

2004 AO vs 2014 AO : Safin, Federer, Agassi,Hewitt, Nalbandian, Roddick,Ferrero b/w > and >> Wawrinka, Djokovic, Nadal, Berdych, Federer

2004 Fed > 2014 Wawrinka
2004 Agassi ~ 2014 Djokovic
2004 Safin > 2014 Nadal
2004 Nalby > 2014 Fed
2004 Roddick > 2014 Berdych

no equivalents for 2004 Hewitt, 2004 Ferrero honestly

2004 FO vs 2014 FO : Gaudio, Coria, Nalbandian, Kuerten, Moya, Henman, Federer b/w < and << Nadal, Djokovic,Ferrer, Gulbis
2004 with clearly better depth, Nadal/Djoko swings it in favour of 2014 FO obviously

2004 Wim vs 2014 Wim: Federer, Roddick, Ancic, Hewitt, Henman, Grosjean > Djokovic, Federer, Dimi, Raonic, Cilic, Wawrinka, Tsonga

2004 Wim Fed > 2014 Wim Djokovic
2004 Wim Roddick > 2014 Wim Fed
2004 Wim Hewitt > anyone else in Wim 2014
.....
Gap reduces a bit considering Djoko also faced a tricky Stepanek in R2


2004 USO vs 2014 USO: Federer, Agassi, Hewitt, Henman, Roddick, Johansson b/w > and >> Cilic, Nishi, Djoko,Fed,Wawrinka, Raonic, Simon

2004 USO Fed > 2014 USO Cilic
2004 USO Hewitt > 2014 USO Nishi
2004 USO Agassi > 2014 USO Djoko
2004 USO Johansson >~ 2014 USO Raonic
2004 USO Roddick > 2014 USO Wawrinka
2004 USO Henman < 2014 USO Fed

no equivalent for 2014 Simon in 2004 (only one to trouble Cilic)


So 2 slams in 2004 significantly better than in 2014, one significantly better in 2014 and one better in 2004

2004 YEC vs 2014 YEC : Federer, Hewitt, Safin, Roddick b/w > and >> Djokovic, Federer, Stan, Nishi

Federer > Djokovic
Hewitt >~ Federer (Fed was better in RR, but shaky in semi)
Safin > Stan
Roddick ~ Nishi

RR was a complete bloodbath in 2014 YEC in both halves due to weak level and slow surface.
Also no final.

Therefore 2004 YEC b/w > and >> 2014 YEC

--------------

early HC season minus AO : 2004 > 2014 (a little better)
IW 04 had fed, agassi, henman, roddick
IW 14 had djoko, fed, isner, dolgo

Fed IW 04 > Djoko IW 14
Agassi IW 04 >~ Fed IW 14
Henman IW 04 > Isner IW 04
Roddick IW 04 > Dolgo IW 14

IW 04 somewhere b/w > and >> IW 14

Miami 04 : Roddick beat Moya in QF, Coria beat Gonzo in SF.

Miami 14 : Both Nadal/Djokovic got walkover in the semis. Djokovic had another walkover. Nadal beat Raonic, Djokovic beat Murray in QF. Nishi upset Fed.

Miami 04 < Miami 14 (mainly due to Djoko)

Clay season minus RG: 14 better by a clear margin

Monte Carlo 2004 b/w < and << Monte Carlo 2015: Coria, Safin, Nalby, Moya in 2004 b/w < and << Wawrinka, Federer, Djokovic, Ferrer, Nadal
Rome 2004 << Rome 2014: Moya, nalby, Costa in 2004 << Djokovic,Nadal,Ferrer,Murray, Raonic(crap final from nalby)
Hamburg 2004 >> Madrid 2014
Federer came through a draw of Gaudio, Gonzalez, Moya, Hewitt to get to the final. Final was a good one. In 14, Nishi retired due to injury. had beaten ferrer, Lopez. nadal had beaten RBA, berdych.

North America HC season minus USO : 2004 ~ 2014 by a clear margin

Canada 04 ~ Canada 14

Roddick came through to the final easily and Fed beat him convincingly.
Fed had 2 Tbs vs Mirnyi (big server) and an entertaining shotmaking match vs arazi in 1st round, lost 1st set vs Johansson

fed of canada 04 > tsonga of canada 04
roddick of canada 04 >~ fed of canada 14

But Tsonga equalizes with wins over Djoko&Murray

Cincy 04 b/w >&>> Cincy 14
Agassi of Cincy 04 > fed of cincy 14
roddick, hewitt in Cincy 04 better than any one of ferrer, robredo,Murray,Cilic of Cincy 14

Indoor season minus YEC : 14 better

madrid 04 had safin in peak form better than fed of shanghai 14 (exception: semi with similar level)
madrid 04 had agassi, shanghai 14 had djokovic. similar level
simon annoyed fed in the shanghai 14 final. nalby could've played better in Madrid 04 final even if he was up against a superlative Safin.

so about even in the end at Madrid

paris 04 safin ~ paris 14 djokovic
hewitt in paris 04 > anyone else in Paris 14
but Paris 14 had berdych, raonic, nishi, fed, murray. better depth clearly.

edge to Paris 14

So to sum it up , IMO :

2004 AO b/w > and >> 2014 AO
2004 RG b/w < and << 2014 RG
2004 Wim > 2014 Wim
2004 USO b/w > and >> 2014 USO

2004 YEC b/w >&>> 2014 YEC

early HC season minus AO : 2004 > 2014
clay season minus RG : 2004 < 2014 (clearly)
North America HC season minus USO : 2004 > 2014
Indoor season minus YEC : 2004 < 2014

2004 clearly better in slams by some distance
2004 significantly better at the YEC
the non major events in 14 is a little better than 2004 (thanks to clay season)

So 2004 was a significantly better year than 2014 in men's tennis
 
Last edited:

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
Me preparing for the meltdown that will ensue:

ContentAchingDungbeetle-max-1mb.gif
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Of course 2004 was better. You didn't have the same 2-3 people winning slams every single event, there was some surprise and variety in both the results and the individual players.
 

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
Of course 2004 was better. You didn't have the same 2-3 people winning slams every single event, there was some surprise and variety in both the results and the individual players.
I think 2004 was better, but your argument doesn't make sense at all. Every Slam in 2014 was won by a different player. Stan took AO, Ned took RG, Djoker took Wimby, and Cilic took USO.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
By the breakdown it looks like it though.

clearly better? yes. not landslide or >>>.

I would like to know how you would stack 2004 with years like 2008/2009/2011/2012?

Already did this.

2009 > 2007 ~ 2008 IMO.

I had :

2012 > 2011 > 2005 >~ 2004 > 2013 > 2014 > 2006~2015 > 2016


So re-arranging to get all the years :

2009 > 2012 > 2011 ~ 2007 ~ 2008 > 2005 >~ 2004 > 2013 > 2014 > 2006~2015 > 2016

04, 05 tend to get severely under-rated here, 04 even more so.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
something like b/w > and >> = significantly
>> = considerably
To me the difference between Nadal of the RG 08 final and the RG 18 final is >> and i consider that fairly big but i guess you use a different scale.
 

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
Of course 2004 was better. You didn't have the same 2-3 people winning slams every single event, there was some surprise and variety in both the results and the individual players.

You had one player winning all the slams instead.
 

Biotic

Hall of Fame
2004 probably had a bit more depth. Pity that suppossed depth was rather useless. Just look at Federer's Sfs and Finals. 1 set in 6 matches. Pathetic effort really.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
2004 probably had a bit more depth. Pity that suppossed depth was rather useless. Just look at Federer's Sfs and Finals. 1 set in 6 matches. Pathetic effort really.

really?
Fed's toughest matches at AO and USO came in the QFs - Nalby at the AO (tough 4-setter) and Agassi at the USO (5-setter)
at Wim, obviously Hewitt in QF was considerably tougher than Grosjean in the SF (toughest match of tournament of the final obviously the final vs Roddick.)
at RG, taken out by Kuerten rolling back his years to play well.
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Well the winner had a tougher draw in 3/4 slams in 2014 except the USO, even if 2004 AO had more quality matches but they were on the other side.

2014 was a fairly strong year though the top level was fluctuating, but Wawrinka Tsonga Cilic all had nice runs saving its competitive grace. The season withered by the end though (Paris, YEC) as prelude to the rather monotonous 2015, while 2004 had Safin gear up in the fall for what would be an all-time conquest the following year, so it sure makes for a better narrative.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
Well the winner had a tougher draw in 3/4 slams in 2014 except the USO, even if 2004 AO had more quality matches but they were on the other side.

2014 was a fairly strong year though the top level was fluctuating, but Wawrinka Tsonga Cilic all had nice runs saving its competitive grace. The season withered by the end though (Paris, YEC) as prelude to the rather monotonous 2015, while 2004 had Safin gear up in the fall for what would be an all-time conquest the following year, so it sure makes for a better narrative.
Federer fans would rate Roddick of Wim 04 over Federer of Wim 14.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Well the winner had a tougher draw in 3/4 slams in 2014 except the USO, even if 2004 AO had more quality matches but they were on the other side.

2014 was a fairly strong year though the top level was fluctuating, but Wawrinka Tsonga Cilic all had nice runs saving its competitive grace. The season withered by the end though (Paris, YEC) as prelude to the rather monotonous 2015, while 2004 had Safin gear up in the fall for what would be an all-time conquest the following year, so it sure makes for a better narrative.

I don't think Djokovic had a tougher draw in Wim 14 than fed in Wim 04. Djoko made life tougher for himself I'd say.
I'd rate Roddick of Wim 04 higher than fed of Wim 14, so...
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Federer fans would rate Roddick of Wim 04 over Federer of Wim 14.

Higher potential for sure but he fried up mentally on key junctions in sets 2&4. 14rer played focused and positive-minded, right until he actually believed he could win then plonked it quickly LOL. Of course, Djokovic should have won in 4. Roddick still the better finalist as far as finals go, but Djokovic had a solid draw prior as well. I'm wary of dropping Hewitt>Dimitrov despite its obviously inviting nature, 6-0 6-1 ain't no joke and that'd be giving Djokovic a lot of grief for almost going 5 vs dim&trough, maybe Greg wasn't so dim for once, this isn't a unique occurrence after all (yes AO reference), shame he managed it that so rarely.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
Higher potential for sure but he fried up mentally on key junctions in sets 2&4. 14rer played focused and positive-minded, right until he actually believed he could win then plonked it quickly LOL. Of course, Djokovic should have won in 4. Roddick still the better finalist as far as finals go, but Djokovic had a solid draw prior as well. I'm wary of dropping Hewitt>Dimitrov despite its obviously inviting nature, 6-0 6-1 ain't no joke and that'd be giving Djokovic a lot of grief for almost going 5 vs dim&trough, maybe Greg wasn't so dim for once, this isn't a unique occurrence after all (yes AO reference), shame he managed it that so rarely.
I think you can make a case both ways who played better of Federer and Roddick in the 04 and 14 comparsion.
 

ForehandRF

Legend
Fed was 1 or 2 matches away from ending YE #1 in 2014 and that by not winning a single slam.I think this should tell something, in comparison with 2004.
 

zvelf

Hall of Fame
I don’t normally give threads like this much credence when no stats are invoked, but even a cursory check against your stat-less assumptions show your judgments to be so off-base as to question the entirety of your conclusion.

2004 Agassi ~ 2014 Djokovic

Djokovic ended 2014 ranked #1 and was 65-8 on the year, an 89% win percentage. His major results were QF at AO, F at FO, W at Wimbledon, SF at USO, and he won the YEC.
Agassi ended 2004 ranked #8 and was 37-13 on the year, a 74% win percentage. His major results were SF at AO, 1R at FO, DNP at Wimbledon, QF at USO.
They are not remotely close. 2014 Djokovic is far better than 2004 Agassi.

2004 Safin > 2014 Nadal

Nadal ended 2014 ranked #3 and was 44-11 on the year, an 80% win percentage. His major results were F at AO, W at FO, 4R at Wimbledon, DNP at USO, and he DNP at the YEC.
Safin ended 2004 ranked #4 and was 52-23 on the year, a 69% win percentage. His major results were F at AO, 4R at FO, 1R at Wimbledon, 1R at USO, and he made SF at the YEC.
2014 Nadal is clearly better than 2004 Safin.
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
basically for slams it looks like this:

AO
overall competition 2004
winner's draw 2014
winner's level 2004

RG
overall competition 2014
winner's draw 2014 slightly
winner's level 2004 big time

WB
overall competition 2014
winner's draw 2014
winner's level 2004

USO:
overall competition 2014
winner's draw 2004
winner's level 2004

2004 AO is propped up by Safin's conquests, however Fred's draw doesn't benefit.
2014 USO is propped up by Nishikori's run, however Cilic's draw doesn't benefit

Roddick was a better finalist at 04 WB but overall I respect how meaty Djoko's draw was. The times when there still were kinda competent grasscourters besides Fedalovic lel.

Obviously Federer showcased stronger tennis in his three wins at prime than Stan/Sillyc/Grassovic, although Nadal's advantage is the biggest w/r/t RG. Such a cruel shame Coria's only final had to be a legendary extended choke, even if not as horrible as you can hear it described, still doesn't measure up to Nadal finding his prime strokes from QF onwards.
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Well the winner had a tougher draw in 3/4 slams in 2014 except the USO, even if 2004 AO had more quality matches but they were on the other side.

2014 was a fairly strong year though the top level was fluctuating, but Wawrinka Tsonga Cilic all had nice runs saving its competitive grace. The season withered by the end though (Paris, YEC) as prelude to the rather monotonous 2015, while 2004 had Safin gear up in the fall for what would be an all-time conquest the following year, so it sure makes for a better narrative.
lol how is Wimbledon tougher, Roddick is a better opponent than anyone in 14, Hewitt is on the same level at worst, and Fraud probably could have elevated Grosjean to Greg levels (he almost did let the third set slip for no reason) if he wanted to. (Technically one can argue RG was tougher for the winner too but that's not the hill anyone wants to die on here).
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
I don’t normally give threads like this much credence when no stats are invoked, but even a cursory check against your stat-less assumptions show your judgments to be so off-base as to question the entirety of your conclusion.



Djokovic ended 2014 ranked #1 and was 65-8 on the year, an 89% win percentage. His major results were QF at AO, F at FO, W at Wimbledon, SF at USO, and he won the YEC.
Agassi ended 2004 ranked #8 and was 37-13 on the year, a 74% win percentage. His major results were SF at AO, 1R at FO, DNP at Wimbledon, QF at USO.
They are not remotely close. 2014 Djokovic is far better than 2004 Agassi.



Nadal ended 2014 ranked #3 and was 44-11 on the year, an 80% win percentage. His major results were F at AO, W at FO, 4R at Wimbledon, DNP at USO, and he DNP at the YEC.
Safin ended 2004 ranked #4 and was 52-23 on the year, a 69% win percentage. His major results were F at AO, 4R at FO, 1R at Wimbledon, 1R at USO, and he made SF at the YEC.
2014 Nadal is clearly better than 2004 Safin.

He means in those particular tournaments, obviously. don't be silly
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
lol how is Wimbledon tougher, Roddick is a better opponent than anyone in 14, Hewitt is on the same level at worst, and Fraud probably could have elevated Grosjean to Greg levels (he almost did let the third set slip for no reason) if he wanted to. (Technically one can argue RG was tougher for the winner too but that's not the hill anyone wants to die on here).

2004 WB Grosjean >= 2019 WB Djokovic? :D
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
basically for slams it looks like this:

AO
overall competition 2004
winner's draw 2014
winner's level 2004

RG
overall competition 2014
winner's draw 2014 slightly
winner's level 2004 big time

WB
overall competition 2014
winner's draw 2014
winner's level 2004

USO:
overall competition 2014
winner's draw 2004
winner's level 2004

2004 AO is propped up by Safin's conquests, however Fred's draw doesn't benefit.
2014 USO is propped up by Nishikori's run, however Cilic's draw doesn't benefit

Roddick was a better finalist at 04 WB but overall I respect how meaty Djoko's draw was. The times when there still were kinda competent grasscourters besides Fedalovic lel.

Obviously Federer showcased stronger tennis in his three wins at prime than Stan/Sillyc/Grassovic, although Nadal's advantage is the biggest w/r/t RG. Such a cruel shame Coria's only final had to be a legendary extended choke, even if not as horrible as you can hear it described, still doesn't measure up to Nadal finding his prime strokes from QF onwards.
Fed, Roddick, Hewitt, Ancic, Grosjean vs Joe, Fed, Cilic, Greg, Raomug? Not seeing how the latter is in any way better.
Fed and Agassi take a steaming dump on anyone in 2014 USO.
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Fed, Roddick, Hewitt, Ancic, Grosjean vs Joe, Fed, Cilic, Greg, Raomug? Not seeing how the latter is in any way better.
Fed and Agassi take a steaming dump on anyone in 2014 USO.

I sense a whiff of ROFLMAO in elevating Roddick-Ancic over DJ-Grigolo. The sort of casual djoko insult you love to give out.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Higher potential for sure but he fried up mentally on key junctions in sets 2&4. 14rer played focused and positive-minded, right until he actually believed he could win then plonked it quickly LOL. Of course, Djokovic should have won in 4. Roddick still the better finalist as far as finals go, but Djokovic had a solid draw prior as well. I'm wary of dropping Hewitt>Dimitrov despite its obviously inviting nature, 6-0 6-1 ain't no joke and that'd be giving Djokovic a lot of grief for almost going 5 vs dim&trough, maybe Greg wasn't so dim for once, this isn't a unique occurrence after all (yes AO reference), shame he managed it that so rarely.

well, fed after serving bonkers in 3rd set didn't do well enough in the 3rd set TB. And couldn't complete comeback in 5th set.
I don't remember Roddick frying up on key junctions in set2. 1st break was bad. but he broke fed twice - which more than makes up for it.

In wim 04QF, hewitt only played below par in the 6-0 set.

He had like 13 winners+errors forced to 2 UEs in the 6-1 set . His faults in that set were :
a) he played federer at his damn best (arguably best set on grass)
b) less than 50% first serves in

played fairly well in that set honestly.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
Fed, Roddick, Hewitt, Ancic, Grosjean vs Joe, Fed, Cilic, Greg, Raomug? Not seeing how the latter is in any way better.
Fed and Agassi take a steaming dump on anyone in 2014 USO.
Cllic was on fire in the QF-F.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
I don’t normally give threads like this much credence when no stats are invoked, but even a cursory check against your stat-less assumptions show your judgments to be so off-base as to question the entirety of your conclusion.



Djokovic ended 2014 ranked #1 and was 65-8 on the year, an 89% win percentage. His major results were QF at AO, F at FO, W at Wimbledon, SF at USO, and he won the YEC.
Agassi ended 2004 ranked #8 and was 37-13 on the year, a 74% win percentage. His major results were SF at AO, 1R at FO, DNP at Wimbledon, QF at USO.
They are not remotely close. 2014 Djokovic is far better than 2004 Agassi.



Nadal ended 2014 ranked #3 and was 44-11 on the year, an 80% win percentage. His major results were F at AO, W at FO, 4R at Wimbledon, DNP at USO, and he DNP at the YEC.
Safin ended 2004 ranked #4 and was 52-23 on the year, a 69% win percentage. His major results were F at AO, 4R at FO, 1R at Wimbledon, 1R at USO, and he made SF at the YEC.
2014 Nadal is clearly better than 2004 Safin.

eh, I was talking about the particular tournaments, not whole years while making those specific comparisions.
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
I sense a whiff of ROFLMAO in elevating Roddick-Ancic over DJ-Grigolo. The sort of casual djoko insult you love to give out.
No, Fed is over Joe (although maybe 04 Roddick could beat 14 Wimby) anyways. Roddick beats old, Hewitt at least on par with Cilic (being very generous, 04 Fed probably goes to town on Cilic), Ancic at least on par with Greg, Grosjean better than Raomug, but who cares.
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
well, fed after serving bonkers in 3rd set didn't do well enough in the 3rd set TB. And couldn't complete comeback in 5th set.
I don't remember Roddick frying up on key junctions in set2. 1st break was bad. but he broke fed twice - which more than makes up for it.

In wim 04QF, hewitt only played below par in the 6-0 set.

He had like 13 winners+errors forced to 2 UEs in the 6-1 set . His faults in that set were :
a) he played federer at his damn best (arguably best set on grass)
b) less than 50% first serves in

played fairly well in that set honestly.

losing a double break lead shouldn't happen in the first place, for a grassgoat on grass in his prime... how silly does that look. So that limits the credit Roddick can get by the discredit Federer has to get for this. You don't give a good opponent a double break lead and expect to win the set, however much effort you put into coming back.

As for Hewitt, well what do we say about passivity, obviously this is no weaponless journeyman level and Fred was locked in but Hewitt not being able to stop the onslaught at all until he found the first serve doesn't cast the most favourable light. Unless we say plainly that such an on-fire Federer whoops anyone including Djokovic, which is fine, but then why even bother with flaunting competition if it is irrelevant to who wins, i.e. Federer. Whooping 2014 Dimitrov in straight sets certainly looks like reasonable speculation, Dimitrov's slice would be completely neutralised so nothing to really bother Fed with.
 
Top