2005-2007 Nadal or 2022-2024 Alcaraz?

2005-2007 Nadal or 2022-2024 Alcaraz?

  • Total voters
    63
clout said:
Nah I think other than Fedal, Alcaraz is clearly miles better than everyone else from 2005-2007. He's already winning regularly against guys today who have a direct analogue to that era (Medvedev=Roddick, Zverev=Nalbandian/Safin, Rublev=Davydenko/Blake, Stefanos=Ferrero, Ruud=Coria, etc.)
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Those are pretty good analogies.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
Carlos is most likely far better than nadal. It's just his mental stuff which is an issue. Even his serve which is poor is not holding him far back.
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I feel like Alcaraz sometimes hits himself out of matches in a way that the big 3 rarely did, especially Rafa. To beat Rafa, you really needed to play better than him for the entire duration of the match whereas Carlos sometimes has lapses during the match where he'll make a string of weird errors that costs him at the end. I'm sure if he fixes that though, he'll be very close to unbeatable on all surfaces which is scary to think about
 
clout said:
I feel like Alcaraz sometimes hits himself out of matches in a way that the big 3 rarely did, especially Rafa. To beat Rafa, you really needed to play better than him for the entire duration of the match whereas Carlos sometimes has lapses during the match where he'll make a string of weird errors that costs him at the end. I'm sure if he fixes that though, he'll be very close to unbeatable on all surfaces which is scary to think about
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Yes rafa is best at percentage play. Nole followed rafa and became almost as well.

Carlos can't match rafa on that side but look how much he forces the issue.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
So that's your insecurity to show you rafole fans are bad.

It's your issue. Resolve it and come back. Take a break from ttw.
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Dude what the hell are you even talking about

The tour then did not have a #3 on the level of Djoko or Carlos, not sure what you thought i meant

And that is to say nothing of someone like Zverev, not sure the 4th best player of 2005-07 measures up to him
 
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TheGoldenEra1990’s said:
Carlos can’t even handle grandpa djokovic and career slam loser bum Zverev . Nadal was beating peak GOAT level Fed.
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You mean Carlos can't beat him a 100% right because only a fool will say he can't beat Nole as he has won 2 Wimbledons.

And you mean nadal was beating fed , forget peak goat, those are just your opinions, some of the times right? Because fed did beat him bad in many matches as well.

If someone is totally honest, and I mean really honest, not half honest,

Then they would never make such comment , that's what I think.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
You mean Carlos can't beat him a 100% right because only a fool will say he can't beat Nole as he has won 2 Wimbledons.

And you mean nadal was beating fed , forget peak goat, those are just your opinions, some of the times right? Because fed did beat him bad in many matches as well.

If someone is totally honest, and I mean really honest, not half honest,

Then they would never make such comment , that's what I think.
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Federer 05-07 was 100000x better than this washed up version of djokovic with zero titles for the year and Carlos lost to him. 05-07 Nadal never would have lost to crippled one leg djokovic in a million years for a gold medal . Especially on clay. End of story

05-07 Nadal>>> alcaraz any day of the week and twice on Sunday
 
TheGoldenEra1990’s said:
Federer 05-07 was 100000x better than this washed up version of djokovic with zero titles for the year and Carlos lost to him. 05-07 Nadal never would have lost to crippled one leg djokovic in a million years for a gold medal . Especially on clay. End of story

05-07 Nadal>>> alcaraz any day of the week and twice on Sunday
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That's your opinion
Add 20 more zeros. These type of exaggerations mean ****.

Nadal lost to fed many times. Alcaraz beat Nole many times. Are you honest with even that. When did you join this board.

What was your previous username? Is this your first account ?
 
I think next year will end the silly discussion once and for all when we compared to their 2008 to 2025 forms. No way will Carlos come close to sniffing 2008 Nadal
 
nolefam_2024 said:
That's your opinion
Add 20 more zeros. These type of exaggerations mean ****.

Nadal lost to fed many times. Alcaraz beat Nole many times. Are you honest with even that. When did you join this board.

What was your previous username? Is this your first account ?
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No that’s not opinion. Peak 2011 Djoker lost to 30 year old Fed at RG. Yet Carlos at 21 can’t beat a the 37 year old version of djokovic with one bum leg? The result speaks for themselves.
 
What fed did in 2011 had to be in context. The ball was much faster. Freaking handicap Andy Murray had 4 set encounter vs nadal. Isner took nadal to five that year.

And fed beat Djokovic in close match , but just 1 year later, so easily.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
Djokovic thrashed fed in 2012. So you must be honest again.

This is not pissing contest.
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No it’s not. But 2005-2007 Fed hands 2023-2024 djokovic multiple bakery products most of the time on all surfaces yet Carlos has lost to him multiple times. Nadal beat that Fed multiple times. Logic will dictate 05-07!Nadal way better than 2023-2024 alcaraz
 
nolefam_2024 said:
Now let's get back to nadal vs alcaraz. And let's all forget God Federer who never lost a match.
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Peak Fed was winning 90 plus matches a year. Djokovic didn’t win a title this year and alcaraz still lost to him so I don’t know anyone can say alcaraz at 19-21 is better since nadal faced the ultimate peak form Fed. And alcaraz is losing to this version of djokovic still
 
TheGoldenEra1990’s said:
Peak Fed was winning 90 plus matches a year. Djokovic didn’t win a title this year and alcaraz still lost to him so I don’t know anyone can say alcaraz at 19-21 is better
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Right. Djokovic don't need to win a title. His performance in Olympics was like 2011. Every single analyst of tennis including Andy roddick , former number 1 and every single ttw member here said so.

He could turn it on, because he is the GOAT.

Now what else you got.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
Right. Djokovic don't need to win a title. His performance in Olympics was like 2011. Every single analyst of tennis including Andy roddick , former number 1 and every single ttw member here said so.

He could turn it on, because he is the GOAT.

Now what else you got.
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So you think 2007 Nadal would lose to this 37 year old djokovic on clay in straight sets ? Or 2007 Nadal couldn’t beat one legged djokovic at Wimbledon (same Nadal that took peak Fed to 5 sets?) Stop please. Don’t be silly

Anything alcaraz accomplished this year. Nadal would have done in far more convincing fashion and definitely never would have lost an Olympic gold to this djokovic on clay LOL
 
TheGoldenEra1990’s said:
So you think 2007 Nadal would lose to this 37 year old djokovic on clay in straight sets ? Or 2007 Nadal couldn’t beat one legged djokovic at Wimbledon (same Nadal that took peak Fed to 5 sets?) Stop please. Don’t be silly

Anything alcaraz accomplished this year. Nadal would have done in far more convincing fashion
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2007 nadal would beat 2024 Olympics Djokovic but only on clay. 2022/23 Djokovic outside clay is supreme.

Carlos is far better player than young nadal outside clay. While nadal is far better on clay.
 
TheGoldenEra1990’s said:
So you think 2007 Nadal would lose to this 37 year old djokovic on clay in straight sets ? Or 2007 Nadal couldn’t beat one legged djokovic at Wimbledon (same Nadal that took peak Fed to 5 sets?) Stop please. Don’t be silly

Anything alcaraz accomplished this year. Nadal would have done in far more convincing fashion and definitely never would have lost an Olympic gold to this djokovic on clay LOL
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Nadal of 2007 would humiliate 37-year-old Djokovic on clay: 62, 61, in favor of the Spaniard.
:D
 
nolefam_2024 said:
2007 nadal would beat 2024 Olympics Djokovic but only on clay. 2022/23 Djokovic outside clay is supreme.

Carlos is far better player than young nadal outside clay. While nadal is far better on clay.
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Bad 'Djoke', pal.
The 36-year-old Djokovic was quite beatable but did not have enough competition (except for Alcaraz at Wimbledon) to expose the Serbian player's decline.
 
clout said:
Nah I think other than Fedal, Alcaraz is clearly miles better than everyone else from 2005-2007. He's already winning regularly against guys today who have a direct analogue to that era (Medvedev=Roddick, Zverev=Nalbandian/Safin, Rublev=Davydenko/Blake, Stefanos=Ferrero, Ruud=Coria, etc.)
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Alcaraz matches up horribly against Zverev, Roddick would be a nightmare for him on anything other than clay, in the 2000s courts were on average a lot faster than they are now too.
 
Sinner and Alcaraz are nowhere near Big 3 level. They've competed for quite some time with retirement age washed up Djokovic and their H2H with him is a losing one.

The gap between the 3 guys and the 90s gen is just so gargantuan there are several tiers right in between. Both falls somewhere in there.
 
Troicki’sCat said:
22-24 Alcaraz, for me it’s not even close. More consistent across all surfaces, whereas Rafa was more of a clay court specialist, though he had pretty good success at Wimbledon after 06.

Post ‘07 Rafa is a different story. I think Carlos has the potential to be even better than Rafa, he’s unbelievably talented. But in my opinion, Rafa was more mentally tough, so maybe time will help Carlos grow into a mental giant
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Alcaraz wasn’t more consistent on grass, he just didn’t have the misfortune of playing arguably the greatest grass courter in the history of tennis in his pomp. Lot of difference that will make.

On HC he’s won a slam but their winning %’s are close (76.8%-75.0%) and both have 3 Masters/5 titles. He’s not some destroyer of worlds on that surface.

On clay, well, lol. But even outside of clay it’s an open question considering the vast difference in competition on grass.
 
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clout said:
The factor of peak Fed always makes the Nadal/Alcaraz comparison an extra interesting one. Alcaraz simply hasn't had to come up against someone of that caliber in his career so far (with all due respect to Sinner/old Novak) and it's likely that Rafa even that young of an age would've added 2 Wimbledon's, 2 YEC's, 3 YEN1's, and a bunch of weeks at number 1 without peak Fed.

On the flip side, Carlos winning at least one major on every surface is very impressive. I don't think we've ever seen a 19-21 year old who is that versatile across every surface ever before.
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Borg
 
Rafa for peak level, his consistency was better too.
He faced a thougher competition in Federer, that's the reason he didn't reach the number one, plus Carlos got the number one by Djokovic being banned in some tournaments as the USO 22 ( and that also helped him to get the extra slam over Rafa)
 
bhpower said:
Rafa for peak level, his consistency was better too.
He faced a thougher competition in Federer, that's the reason he didn't reach the number one, plus Carlos got the number one by Djokovic being banned in some tournaments as the USO 22 ( and that also helped him to get the extra slam over Rafa)
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He was also helped by Wimbledon giving no points, so Nadal didn't gain a significant amount from the semifinal and Djokovic lost a ton.
 
Troicki’sCat said:
22-24 Alcaraz, for me it’s not even close. More consistent across all surfaces, whereas Rafa was more of a clay court specialist, though he had pretty good success at Wimbledon after 06.

Post ‘07 Rafa is a different story. I think Carlos has the potential to be even better than Rafa, he’s unbelievably talented. But in my opinion, Rafa was more mentally tough, so maybe time will help Carlos grow into a mental giant
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He had good success at Wimb in 2006 itself.
 
Clay, definitely Rafa. Fed was an immovable object on grass, nobody in history would have beaten him. Also Fed beat him in two semifinals at yEC. Rafa could have won the tournament in one of those years probably.
 
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Achievement, Carlos wins. Couldn’t care less about rankings or masters. It all about the majors for me. 4 is greater than 3.
 
clout said:
Now that Alcaraz has basically wrapped up in his 2024 season, how would rate Carlos' performance in his age 19-21 seasons with Nadal's first 3 competitive seasons from 2005-2007 when Rafa was also ages 19-21? If we break it down by stats, they are honestly very close in a lot of statistics.

Ages
Nadal - 19 to 21
Alcaraz - 19 to 21

Slams Won
Nadal - 3
Alcaraz - 4

Masters Titles
Nadal - 9
Alcaraz - 5

Total Titles
Nadal - 22
Alcaraz - 15

Weeks at N1
Nadal - 0
Alcaraz - 36

Year End Rankings
Nadal - 2, 2, 2
Alcaraz - 1, 2, 3

Wins vs Top 10
Nadal - 26
Alcaraz - 32

Overall Record
Nadal - 208W-37L (84.9%)
Alcaraz - 175W-38L (82.2%)

Best Performance at Each Slam
Nadal - AO (QF), RG (Wx3), WI (RUx2), US (QF)
Alcaraz - AO (QF), RG (W), WI (Wx2), US (W)

Best Performance at Each Masters
Nadal - IW (W), MIA (RU), MC (Wx3), ROM (Wx3), MAD (RU), CAN (W), CIN (QF), SHA (W), PAR (RU)
Alcaraz - IW (Wx2), MIA (W), MC (R2), ROM (3R), MAD (Wx2), CAN (QF), CIN (RU), SHA (QF), PAR (QF)

Performances at WTF
Nadal - DNP, SF, SF
Alcaraz - DNP, SF, RR

Best Performance at Olympics
Nadal - NH
Alcaraz - Silver

Win %/Titles/Majors by Surface
Nadal - Hard (75%/5/0), Grass (74%/0/0), Clay (97.2%/17/3)
Alcaraz - Hard (77%/5/1), Grass (92%/3/2), Clay (86.3%/7/1)
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Hard one this, Alcaraz has the stats but Nadal also had Federer at his absolute peak whereas Alcaraz has Sinner and a heavily declined old Djokovic and Zverev!!
I'll probably just give this Alcaraz simply as he managed the Surface Slam at such a young age while Nadal at the same age wasnt winning Majors on hard court. But this can go either way.
 
duaneeo said:
05-07 Nadal won Indian Wells, Canada, indoor hard Madrid, and if not for a peak Roger Federer would've also won Wimbledon, Miami, and likely the YEC.
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Would 06/07 Rafa be able to beat Sinner at the YEC if you dropped young Rafa into the present day?
 
clout said:
Would 06/07 Rafa be able to beat Sinner at the YEC if you dropped young Rafa into the present day?
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Nadal played better in the 2006 edition than in the 2007 edition of the Shanghai Masters Cup.
Sinner would still be the favourite but the Spaniard would have more chances than Fritz, that's for sure.
:D
 
Racquet_smash said:
Alcaraz matches up horribly against Zverev, Roddick would be a nightmare for him on anything other than clay, in the 2000s courts were on average a lot faster than they are now too.
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Roddick's modern equivalent is Medvedev and not Zverev. Zverev is most similar to Nalbandian imo
 
Racquet_smash said:
Medvedev is a baseline pusher with nearly no net game. The 2 are only similar because they are tall and like hard courts.
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Nah they're very similar players. Both are big servers but get passive in baseline rallies, both are bad on clay, both prefer hard courts, both were always a step below the top players, both were number one for a very brief moment, and both are one-time slam champions with the US Open being their only major win.
 
clout said:
Would 06/07 Rafa be able to beat Sinner at the YEC if you dropped young Rafa into the present day?
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I'll simply say that 06/07 Rafa would easily beat 23/24 Alcaraz.

clout said:
Nah they're very similar players. Both are big servers but get passive in baseline rallies, both are bad on clay, both prefer hard courts, both were always a step below the top players, both were number one for a very brief moment, and both are one-time slam champions with the US Open being their only major win.
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Roddick preferred grass; the top player he was always a step below was a peak Roger Federer; and along with being "number one for a very brief moment", Roddick was YE#1.
 
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