2005-2007 Nadal vs 2017-2019 Nadal

Who is better 2005-2007 Nadal or 2017-2019 Nadal

  • Equal

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 2005-2007 on HC only

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 2017-19 on clay only

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 2017-19 on grass only

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    38
  • This poll will close: .

Lew II

Hall of Fame
Slam titles: 5-3
Slam finals: 7-5
Slam semis: 10-5

Players' opinion on the level of tennis: 2017-19 >>> 2005-07
 

NFN

New User
Slam titles: 5-3
Slam finals: 7-5
Slam semis: 10-5

Players' opinion on the level of tennis: 2017-19 >>> 2005-07
Nadal said he was better than ever? Federer said that about his own level i do not remember Rafa saying it.
 

ForehandRF

Professional
2006 and especially 2007 Nadal better on clay and especially at RG, times when he was running like a cheetah on a clay court almost retrieving balls from the stands.
On grass 2007 Nadal better than 2018 Nadal imo, 2006 probably a bit bellow compared to 2019.
2017-2019 Nadal better on hardcourts
 

Towny

Hall of Fame
2005-07 Nadal superior on clay (just about). Superior on grass too (again, not a lot in it)

2017-19 Nadal vastly superior on hard courts

Overall, 2017-19 Nadal takes it, given how prevalent hard court is. Significantly better results at slams too
 
I'm not convinced that Nadal is that much better on Hardcourt now. Maybe a little. Definitely better on clay and grass 05-07. 2017-2019 on Hardcourts he is a very pedestrian 10-8 vs top 10. Avoided good players and lost usually when he met them. Just lucky.
 

clout

Hall of Fame
Clay: 2005-07 (didn’t he go on like an 80 match win streak back then or something like that; he would’ve never lost to guys like Thiem and Fognini in that form)
Grass: About dead even. His game wasn’t as developed for grass back then but he pushed Federer to the limits in 2007 one year prior to finally beating him. Then again, his game seemed more dangerous in 2018-19 than back then so it’s about even here.
Hard: Definitely 2017-19. Won 2 HC majors and made 2 other finals to go along with 2 Masters titles and 2 Masters finals. Rafa didn’t make a single semifinal appearance at a HC major until 2008 and it’s pretty clear his game is much more well suited for HCs now.

Overall, if he was going up against Fed or Djoker, I’d choose 2005-07, but against anyone else, I’m going 2017-19
 
2005-07 Nadal superior on clay (just about). Superior on grass too (again, not a lot in it)

2017-19 Nadal vastly superior on hard courts

Overall, 2017-19 Nadal takes it, given how prevalent hard court is. Significantly better results at slams too
On clay Nadal was MUCH better in 2005-2007. It's not even close. Prime Federer would really like to face 2017-2019 Nadal on clay.
 

Towny

Hall of Fame
Come on, on clay Nadal was MUCH better in 2005-2007. It's not even close.
Definitely better at the masters. 2017 Nadal was damn good at RG though. Similar level to 2007 (arguably better but I'd probably disagree). 2005/6 a bit better than 2018/19 at RG but I don't think there's a huge amount in it. A lot faster back then but is more aggressive now.

Probably less close than I initially thought but certainly closer than the difference on hard courts.
 

ForehandRF

Professional
I don't know why some of you consider Nadal more agressive on clay than back then.Check out the 2007 final vs Federer.
 
Definitely better at the masters. 2017 Nadal was damn good at RG though. Similar level to 2007 (arguably better but I'd probably disagree). 2005/6 a bit better than 2018/19 at RG but I don't think there's a huge amount in it. A lot faster back then but is more aggressive now.

Probably less close than I initially thought but certainly closer than the difference on hard courts.
On hardcourt yes, because 2017-2019 Nadal does better against the field. On the other hand I think young Nadal would play much better against his main rivals. I don't see 2007 Nadal losing to 2019 Federer at Wimbledon.
 

Towny

Hall of Fame
On hardcourt yes, because 2017-2019 Nadal does better against the field. On the other hand I think young Nadal would play much better against his main rivals. I don't see 2007 Nadal losing to 2019 Federer at Wimbledon.
2007 Nadal may well take 2019 Federer in 4. Even 2006 Nadal would have done better, although not sure if he would have won
 

Sabrina

Rookie
2007 Nadal would crush any of the post-16 incarnations, but not so sure about 05 or 06.
2005-2006 Nadal would probably outlast 2018-2019 Nadal, especially on clay. The current Nadal wouldn't be able to blast through his younger self who would turn it into a war of attrition.
 

King No1e

Legend
Nadal won something like 80 matches in a row in 2005-2007 before he was stopped by prime Federer in Hamburg. Nadal in 2019 alone lost to a few mugs and played some of his worst ever matches on clay. For sure they are not even close to equal.
Ok, I wasn't counting 2019. This year was one of his worst clay incarnations.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Which version is is better?
Only possible area is clay. I've just been watching his 2005 Coria matches and I'm impressed with his obvious ability (Ferrer already said he'd be #1 eventually), but Coria is damaged goods then coming off shoulder surgery. Nadal doesn't seem to hit with that invincible high bouncing heaviness, but conditions on Monte-Carlo and Rome may be the culprit. Just starting Rome match. 2007 clay probably comparable with 2017-2019 clay and Djokovic had arrived and of course Federer so the rest of the field might be weak, but the rest of the Big3 were not.o_O Not sure when Djoko's prime started on clay, but a case could be made it started in 2007 and hasn't stopped for the most part.
 

Third Serve

Hall of Fame
There are arguments to be made for both sides. 2017-2019 had the bigger title haul but Nadal isn't facing anyone who is near the caliber of a peak Federer so the competition argument sways in the favor of 2005-2007.
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
There are arguments to be made for both sides. 2017-2019 had the bigger title haul but Nadal isn't facing anyone who is near the caliber of a peak Federer so the competition argument sways in the favor of 2005-2007.
He is facing peak Federer now, according to Federer. According to you, Nadal (possibly) now plays better than ever, but weak Federer is a strong competitor while in the past he played peak Federer who he demolished.
 

Third Serve

Hall of Fame
He is facing peak Federer now, according to Federer. According to you, Nadal (possibly) now plays better than ever, but can't beat weak Federer while in the past he played peak Federer who he demolished.
Well, I disagree with Federer, and my disagreement stems from, in descending order of priority, the stats, further context behind his quotes, and my personal assessment of his performance over the years, (plus, there's no solid proof that he actually did improve other than his own claims, which I'll dismiss as actual evidence).
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
Well, I disagree with Federer, and my disagreement stems from, in descending order of priority, the stats, further context behind his quotes, and my personal assessment of his performance over the years, (plus, there's no solid proof that he actually did improve other than his own claims, which I'll dismiss as actual evidence).
I commend your honesty. It is your word against Federer's about Federer.
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
From my point of view, it's Federer's words against the stats, but I can see where you're coming from.
As we are looking for absolute playing level (not relative level in relation to the field), stats can be used only if the field he played was equally strong. If not, that would be like comparing Fulham's results in Championship and Premiership. What method can you use to assess absolute strength of the field?
 

Lew II

Hall of Fame
Win percentage

2005-07 - 84.80
2017-19 - 88.33

Slams


2005-07 - 86.21
2017-19 - 90.67

Big Tournaments

2005-07 - 84.47
2017-19 - 88.59

Against top-10

2005-07 - 66.67
2017-19 - 69.05

On hardcourt

2005-07 - 75.21
2017-19 - 85.23

On clay

2005-07 - 97.27
2017-19 - 93.42

On grass

2005-07 - 73.91
2017-19 - 81.25
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
Win percentage

2005-07 - 84.80
2017-19 - 88.33

Slams

2005-07 - 86.21
2017-19 - 90.67

Big Tournaments

2005-07 - 84.47
2017-19 - 88.59

Against top-10

2005-07 - 66.67
2017-19 - 69.05

On hardcourt

2005-07 - 75.21
2017-19 - 85.23

On clay

2005-07 - 97.27
2017-19 - 93.42

On grass

2005-07 - 73.91
2017-19 - 81.25
That is great. Can you do ELO of top20 in these two periods?
 

Third Serve

Hall of Fame
As we are looking for absolute playing level (not relative level in relation to the field), stats can be used only if the field he played was equally strong. If not, that would be like comparing Fulham's results in Championship and Premiership. What method can you use to assess absolute strength of the field?
One metric that sounds promising enough is how ranking points are distributed across the top 10 (or top 20). It's basically the closest we can get to determining field strength. For instance, what did ___ player have to do to get to the number 6 ranking? The higher the bar for reaching the top, the "tougher" the players who occupy the top spots are.

If winning a Slam, making the WTF final, and reaching another Masters 1000 final (Del Potro in 2009) only gets you to rank 5, then that indicates that the bar for cracking top 5 was pretty high.

I'm not really looking for players such as Nishikori recently who consistently make it to QFs and SFs of the big events but never quite break through. Players like the aforementioned Del Potro who actually win big are better signs of tough competition because they prove that they can actually challenge the top players.

This metric isn’t perfectly accurate (especially when you factor in the ranking system change from 2008-2009) but it’s a good starting point.
 
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