Nadal said he was better than ever? Federer said that about his own level i do not remember Rafa saying it.Slam titles: 5-3
Slam finals: 7-5
Slam semis: 10-5
Players' opinion on the level of tennis: 2017-19 >>> 2005-07
I'm not convinced that Nadal is that much better on Hardcourt now. Maybe a little. Definitely better on clay and grass 05-07. 2017-2019 on Hardcourts he is a very pedestrian 10-8 vs top 10. Avoided good players and lost usually when he met them. Just lucky.
That's cartoon Frank Bannister.Is your avi a depressed Maestronian?
On clay Nadal was MUCH better in 2005-2007. It's not even close. Prime Federer would really like to face 2017-2019 Nadal on clay.2005-07 Nadal superior on clay (just about). Superior on grass too (again, not a lot in it)
2017-19 Nadal vastly superior on hard courts
Overall, 2017-19 Nadal takes it, given how prevalent hard court is. Significantly better results at slams too
Definitely better at the masters. 2017 Nadal was damn good at RG though. Similar level to 2007 (arguably better but I'd probably disagree). 2005/6 a bit better than 2018/19 at RG but I don't think there's a huge amount in it. A lot faster back then but is more aggressive now.Come on, on clay Nadal was MUCH better in 2005-2007. It's not even close.
On hardcourt yes, because 2017-2019 Nadal does better against the field. On the other hand I think young Nadal would play much better against his main rivals. I don't see 2007 Nadal losing to 2019 Federer at Wimbledon.Definitely better at the masters. 2017 Nadal was damn good at RG though. Similar level to 2007 (arguably better but I'd probably disagree). 2005/6 a bit better than 2018/19 at RG but I don't think there's a huge amount in it. A lot faster back then but is more aggressive now.
Probably less close than I initially thought but certainly closer than the difference on hard courts.
2007 Nadal may well take 2019 Federer in 4. Even 2006 Nadal would have done better, although not sure if he would have wonOn hardcourt yes, because 2017-2019 Nadal does better against the field. On the other hand I think young Nadal would play much better against his main rivals. I don't see 2007 Nadal losing to 2019 Federer at Wimbledon.
If it wasn't a final (and thus Nadal plays a normal first set) I think 06 Nadal could win.2007 Nadal may well take 2019 Federer in 4. Even 2006 Nadal would have done better, although not sure if he would have won
I hope that was a joke.2006-7 on grass, 17-19 on HC, equal on clay
One of Nadal's finest. Only 2008 RG was better IMO.
One of Nadal's finest. Only 2008 RG was better IMO.
2007 Nadal would crush any of the post-16 incarnations, but not so sure about 05 or 06.I hope that was a joke.
2005-2007 on clay.
2017-2019 on HCs.
2007>2018>2006=2019 on grass.
Nadal won something like 80 matches in a row in 2005-2007 before he was stopped by prime Federer in Hamburg. Nadal in 2019 alone lost to a few mugs and played some of his worst ever matches on clay. For sure they are not even close to equal.2007 Nadal would crush any of the post-16 incarnations, but not so sure about 05 or 06.
2007 Nadal would crush any of the post-16 incarnations, but not so sure about 05 or 06.
Ok, I wasn't counting 2019. This year was one of his worst clay incarnations.Nadal won something like 80 matches in a row in 2005-2007 before he was stopped by prime Federer in Hamburg. Nadal in 2019 alone lost to a few mugs and played some of his worst ever matches on clay. For sure they are not even close to equal.
2010 last 4 rounds and 2018 were very high. Especially considered Murray played well in Wimbledon 2010. 2018 was very high as well.2006 Nadal on grass is better than any Nadal on grass post 2008.
He lost to more on fire HC players then as well. Blake at USO 2005,Gonzo at AO 2007. Nadal doesn’t catch as many early rounds threats anymore which helps him.Notable players that Nadal defeated on HC in both periods.
2005-2007: Federer, Djokovic, Agassi, Roddick, Davydenko
2017-2019: Delpo, Cilic, Medvedev, Thiem
Yep, he coasts now. Couldn't do that back then.He lost to more on fire HC players then as well. Blake at USO 2005,Gonzo at AO 2007. Nadal doesn’t catch as many early rounds threats anymore which helps him.
Agreed, those middle two sets especially was exceptional stuff from Nadal and I don't think 2019 Fed would have the answersIf it wasn't a final (and thus Nadal plays a normal first set) I think 06 Nadal could win.
Only possible area is clay. I've just been watching his 2005 Coria matches and I'm impressed with his obvious ability (Ferrer already said he'd be #1 eventually), but Coria is damaged goods then coming off shoulder surgery. Nadal doesn't seem to hit with that invincible high bouncing heaviness, but conditions on Monte-Carlo and Rome may be the culprit. Just starting Rome match. 2007 clay probably comparable with 2017-2019 clay and Djokovic had arrived and of course Federer so the rest of the field might be weak, but the rest of the Big3 were not. Not sure when Djoko's prime started on clay, but a case could be made it started in 2007 and hasn't stopped for the most part.Which version is is better?
There are arguments to be made for both sides. 2017-2019 had the bigger title haul but Nadal isn't facing anyone who is near the caliber of a peak Federer so the competition argument sways in the favor of 2005-2007.
Well, I disagree with Federer, and my disagreement stems from, in descending order of priority, the stats, further context behind his quotes, and my personal assessment of his performance over the years, (plus, there's no solid proof that he actually did improve other than his own claims, which I'll dismiss as actual evidence).He is facing peak Federer now, according to Federer. According to you, Nadal (possibly) now plays better than ever, but can't beat weak Federer while in the past he played peak Federer who he demolished.
Well, I disagree with Federer, and my disagreement stems from, in descending order of priority, the stats, further context behind his quotes, and my personal assessment of his performance over the years, (plus, there's no solid proof that he actually did improve other than his own claims, which I'll dismiss as actual evidence).
From my point of view, it's Federer's words against the stats, but I can see where you're coming from.I commend your honesty. It is your word against Federer's about Federer.
From my point of view, it's Federer's words against the stats, but I can see where you're coming from.
Win percentage
2005-07 - 84.80
2017-19 - 88.33
Slams
2005-07 - 86.21
2017-19 - 90.67
Big Tournaments
2005-07 - 84.47
2017-19 - 88.59
Against top-10
2005-07 - 66.67
2017-19 - 69.05
On hardcourt
2005-07 - 75.21
2017-19 - 85.23
On clay
2005-07 - 97.27
2017-19 - 93.42
On grass
2005-07 - 73.91
2017-19 - 81.25
One metric that sounds promising enough is how ranking points are distributed across the top 10 (or top 20). It's basically the closest we can get to determining field strength. For instance, what did ___ player have to do to get to the number 6 ranking? The higher the bar for reaching the top, the "tougher" the players who occupy the top spots are.As we are looking for absolute playing level (not relative level in relation to the field), stats can be used only if the field he played was equally strong. If not, that would be like comparing Fulham's results in Championship and Premiership. What method can you use to assess absolute strength of the field?
Nadal's opponents in 2017-19 had a higher Elo rating: 2032.6 to 1994.1.That is great. Can you do ELO of top20 in these two periods?
Does that mean 2017-2019 is the strongest period ever then?Nadal's opponents in 2017-19 had a higher Elo rating: 2032.6 to 1994.1.
Does that mean 2017-2019 is the strongest period ever then?
2019 Cinci Fed>2004 USO final Fed, no?Of course, tennis is constantly improving.