2006 Fed or 2020 Nadal, who would win at RG?

[mike danny]

God, Nadal is Nadal.

I said 2006 Federer would give a good fight. But 13 RGs and 5-0(6-0?) And 7-1 record is there for a reason.

No one is beating RG winning Rafael in PC.

Yes, Nadal is Nadal, but 2006 Fed vs 2020 Nadal would be a far different match-up that wouldn't have the same patterns anymore.

Even if Nadal is Nadal, he hasn't had to face anyone great at RG in his 30's.

Not saying Fed would win, just pointing out that the variables change.

 

[mike danny]

Any version of Nadal except 2015/2016 would beat Federer on clay

It wasn't always Nadal's strength and speed which made him win

Federer would make dumb net approaches, poor volleys, serve would percentage would drop, backhand too weak to go against Nadal's FH. The only thing keeping him in the match WAS his forehand most of the time.

Well, things change considering that Nadal would be slower this time to get to Fed's shots and his passing shots are also worse.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Yes, Nadal is Nadal, but 2006 Fed vs 2020 Nadal would be a far different match-up that wouldn't have the same patterns anymore.

Even if Nadal is Nadal, he hasn't had to face anyone great at RG in his 30's.

Not saying Fed would win, just pointing out that the variables change.

I wouldn't go that far. Djokovic is still Djokovic and Thiem would have 2-3 FO's without Nadal.

 

[mike danny]

2006 Fed would have a legit shot (let's say 40-60), the gap in athleticism would really be in his favour.

Younger Fed is pretty underrated on TTW these days.

More like forgotten considering how many old Fed is peak posts and threads we have here yearly.

 

[mike danny]

I wouldn't go that far. Djokovic is still Djokovic and Thiem would have 2-3 FO's without Nadal.

They aren't anywhere good enough to even trouble Nadal in BO5 on clay.

Djokovic isn't still Djokovic in general, let alone on clay nowadays. It's where his decline shines the brightest. Not as elite as he used to be.

Thiem has been embarrassed by Rafa so much that does it really matter that he'd in 2-3 FO's?

Peak Fed is a tier or 2 better than them even on clay.

 

[mike danny]

Firstly, there was no need to make another thread about the same topic. Secondly, the 2020 conditions suited Bulldal to a T. The heavy balls and the court being too slow made it impossible to hit through him and I don't see how Fed can beat him.

You need for the clay court to play faster to have a chance against him. He's on 11 at MC and on 4 at Madrid for a reason. The closest match between Fed and Bull at RG was in 2011 when the conditions were a bit faster.

LOL, what? 2006 and 2007 weren't less close than 2011 and the clay was slow AF.

Hamburg was also slow and Fed was doing well vs Nadal there.

 

[mike danny]

Rafa's forehand was way weaker compared to now. I mean look at how balls bounce! 2012 or 2017 Nadal would hit winners left and right. His forehand was really weak back then. In the highlights there were just a few points where Rafa had some amazing gets though Roger almost always made another winner and won the point at the end. I need to rewatch the full match again to have a better judgement

His speed was otherwordly though and better than in his old years. That's exactly the kind of loss that benefits Fed.

 

[ForehandRF]

Fedr in five.

Would he be clutch enough in the 5th if he gets there ? That's the question

 

[NatF]

Would he be clutch enough in the 5th if he gets there ? That's the question

Federer's mental strength is being questioned a bit too much these days. I don't think 2020 Nadal is going to put the same pressure on Federer to hit the ball perfectly to the lines. The real question is whether Nadal has the stamina to go five.

 

[The_Order]

Federer would win as his peak version would exploit the 2020 Nadal comparative declined movement and speed. Federer could not beat peak Nadal due to Nadal (as safin said) being able to run around like a rabbit getting everything back. Made him hit 5 extra shots per rally.
2020 would not be the case.

2020 Rafa far more aggressive. The way he was striking his backhand and nailing his fh in that final would've been more than enough to take down 2006 Fed...

 

[Yugram]

2020 F Nadal wins 6-1 6-0 7-5 against Federer and 6-1 5-7 6-3 6-4 against 2006 Nadal

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

His speed was otherwordly though and better than in his old years. That's exactly the kind of loss that benefits Fed.

And also, playing aggressive versus roger would not be beneficial for Rafa, you can't out-attack the best attacker in the game. I'm happy nadal played the way he did, the best way to wear down prime roger was to grind him to dust, not to blast him off the court

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

2020 F Nadal wins 6-1 6-0 7-5 against Federer and 6-1 5-7 6-3 6-4 against 2006 Nadal

Recency bias has grown up way too big over you, my friend.

 

[Yugram]

And also, playing aggressive versus roger would not be beneficial for Rafa, you can't out-attack the best attacker in the game. I'm happy nadal played the way he did, the best way to wear down prime roger was to grind him to dust, not to blast him off the court

Yeah... no. Tsonga and Del Potro blasted prime Federer off the court many times, it’s just that in pathetic weak era the only 2 blasters were Big Mac Davy and Safin, who was basically retired by 2006.

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

Yeah... no. Tsonga and Del Potro blasted prime Federer off the court many times, it’s just that in pathetic weak era the only 2 blasters were Big Mac Davy and Safin, who was basically retired by 2006.

On slam level, Both safin & Del potro did once in 2005 & 2009, both of which were again not supposed to be more than 4 set victories for roger. The lack of clutch this guy possesses, blows my mind away sometimes, lol
And 2006 was in no way a weaker year than either of 2010 or 2015, gentleman. Sorry, brother, I am not a biased fan.

 

[Yugram]

On slam level, Both safin & Del potro did once in 2005 & 2009, both of which were again not supposed to be more than 4 set victories for roger. The lack of clutch this guy possesses, blows my mind away sometimes, lol
And 2006 was in no way a weaker year than either of 2010 or 2015, gentleman. Sorry, brother, I am not a biased fan.

You are not a biased fan, you are Federer fan, who is biased. And of course you’re propagating the myth that Federer should’ve won all the matches he ever participated in, but cLuTcH happened.

 

[NoleIsBoat]

On slam level, Both safin & Del potro did once in 2005 & 2009, both of which were again not supposed to be more than 4 set victories for roger. The lack of clutch this guy possesses, blows my mind away sometimes, lol
And 2006 was in no way a weaker year than either of 2010 or 2015, gentleman. Sorry, brother, I am not a biased fan.

Federer is very fortunate that Safin was washed up age 27... otherwise he could have posed a threat at HC slams if he remained fit. Lucky for maestro he got to feast on Roddick, Hewitt, Bagdhatis, Henman, Bjorkman etc

 

[ForehandRF]

Federer's mental strength is being questioned a bit too much these days. I don't think 2020 Nadal is going to put the same pressure on Federer to hit the ball perfectly to the lines. The real question is whether Nadal has the stamina to go five.

Well it's inevitable as he wasted opportunities on clay against Nadal, but fair enough.

Bolded.Good point, he might be tired but the time the match would enter the 5th set and that could make the difference.

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

You are not a biased fan, you are Federer fan, who is biased. And of course you’re propagating the myth that Federer should’ve won all the matches he ever participated in, but cLuTcH happened.

Not for the first time I've got this, lol.
People call me djokovic fan, federer fan, nadal hater, federer hater, djokovic hater, just lol....

 

[ForehandRF]

If Fed has no chance in this scenario, as some say, that means that at his best he was a weak opponent and that it's not the case.Nadal at RG is Nadal at RG, but it's not like in 2020 he was some fresh daisy on a tennis court.

 

[NatF]

Well it's inevitable as he wasted opportunities on clay against Nadal, but fair enough.

Bolded.Good point, he might be tired but the time the match would enter the 5th set and that could make the difference.

Fundementally different match-up though.

 

[ForehandRF]

Fundementally different match-up though.

Agreed

 

[mike danny]

On slam level, Both safin & Del potro did once in 2005 & 2009, both of which were again not supposed to be more than 4 set victories for roger. The lack of clutch this guy possesses, blows my mind away sometimes, lol
And 2006 was in no way a weaker year than either of 2010 or 2015, gentleman. Sorry, brother, I am not a biased fan.

2010 is actually weaker than 2006 anyway.

 

[ForehandRF]

The very first point tells you how legendary this match was. And look at Federer defending like Djokovic.

This is the match where I think two guys moved as well as it is possible on clay.

To think that Nadal has never been that close to lose a 5th set on clay

 

[xFedal]

They aren't anywhere good enough to even trouble Nadal in BO5 on clay.

Djokovic isn't still Djokovic in general, let alone on clay nowadays. It's where his decline shines the brightest. Not as elite as he used to be.

Thiem has been embarrassed by Rafa so much that does it really matter that he'd in 2-3 FO's?

Peak Fed is a tier or 2 better than them even on clay.

"Peak Fed is a tier or 2 better than them even on clay. "Peak Fed is better than whom?

 

[mike danny]

"Peak Fed is a tier or 2 better than them even on clay. "Peak Fed is better than whom?

Than 2020 Novak and Thiem.

 

[xFedal]

Yh Nadal 2020 RG beats Fed 06 or any other version of Fed, simply put NADAL is KING on this surface. Nadal a lot more offensive, this offensive version I think defeats many defensive versions of himself to. See RG17/RG20

 

[mike danny]

Yh Nadal 2020 RG beats Fed 06 or any other version of Fed, simply put NADAL is KING on this surface. Nadal a lot more offensive, this offensive version I think defeats many defensive versions of himself to. See RG17/RG20

Just a bunch of BS propagated by recency bias.

 

[xFedal]

Just a bunch of BS propagated by recency bias.

The older Ned gets the more impressive his wins will be. -xFedal

 

[metsman]

2006/2007 Federer should be favorite against any post 2010 Rafa except 2012 and maybe 2017 Nadal (or 2013 in the last 2 rounds).

He definitely has the game to beat 11/13/14 Nadal as the matchup had significantly changed by then (see 11 RG looking more comfortable for Fed off the baseline with relatively very little BH abuse than 05-07 despite a large decline off the baseline) and the same is true for 2012 matchup wise but Nadal was hitting the ball very well that year and wouldn't be getting dictated quite as much unless the conditions were like in the final. What is also neglected is that conditions at RG were faster starting from around 09 or so. But still those Nadals still have the advantage of being a more natural claycourter and Fed's BH is still the weakest shot. Nadal is also physically still good enough to use that to wear down Federer over a B05 clay match. So I'm not confident Federer wins, with a controlled performance like 06 Rome he should but we never saw his ability to keep it up like that at RG and over a 10 match span it's unlikely he produces that more than a few times and the times he didn't, he'd have to be very good in the clutch.

After that, and I include 2017, the physical gap is too big. 2017 Nadal didn't all of a sudden get faster or more explosive on clay than the version that a 36 year old Federer was bossing around on HC. He moves better on clay of course but it should be clear that 2017 Nadal is a step below even 2014 physically and if people think he will make up for it with more aggression they need to go back and watch the last few rounds of 2014.

 

[RS]

He definitely has the game to beat 11/13/14 Nadal as the matchup had significantly changed by then (see 11 RG looking more comfortable for Fed off the baseline with relatively very little BH abuse than 05-07 despite a large decline off the baseline) and the same is true for 2012 matchup wise but Nadal was hitting the ball very well that year and wouldn't be getting dictated quite as much unless the conditions were like in the final. What is also neglected is that conditions at RG were faster starting from around 09 or so. But still those Nadals still have the advantage of being a more natural claycourter and Fed's BH is still the weakest shot. Nadal is also physically still good enough to use that to wear down Federer over a B05 clay match. So I'm not confident Federer wins, with a controlled performance like 06 Rome he should but we never saw his ability to keep it up like that at RG and over a 10 match span it's unlikely he produces that more than a few times and the times he didn't, he'd have to be very good in the clutch.

After that, and I include 2017, the physical gap is too big. 2017 Nadal didn't all of a sudden get faster or more explosive on clay than the version that a 36 year old Federer was bossing around on HC. He moves better on clay of course but it should be clear that 2017 Nadal is a step below even 2014 physically and if people think he will make up for it with more aggression they need to go back and watch the last few rounds of 2014.

2006/2007 Federer over 2017 Nadal in 4 sets or less then and to beat Stan not losing a single game?

 

[metsman]

2006/2007 Federer over 2017 Nadal in 4 sets or less then and to beat Stan not losing a single game?

Federer, like Pete, isn't some tryhard mug that will go all out to break an opponent who has no chance every game, but closer to the truth than what anyone else will tell you!

 

[RS]

Federer, like Pete, isn't some tryhard mug that will go all out to break an opponent who has no chance every game, but closer to the truth than what anyone else will tell you!

I will count that as a Nadal victory then.

 

[Third Serve]

I will count that as a Nadal victory then.

lol

 

[RF-18]

I’m shocked and disgusted by the people going against Federer here. Obviously a lot of young morons on this board. A 2020 Nadal doesn’t have anywhere near a prime Nadal’s retrieving abilities. Federer’s winner count would skyrocket from the 06 match. Nadal was running down ridiculous shots in that 06 match. Nadal plays more aggressive now and he would get smoked playing a prime Federer in a shotmakers duel.

Only a complete moron would think a 2020 Nadal is better than a 2006 version.

There were stuff Nadal did things better in 2006 that he can't do today, like his athleticism, but in terms of ball striking, serving and all round having a better understanding of his game and tactics he is a much better player today than in 2006. The things you are mentioning like his retrieving skills, he wouldn't be in those positions today because he wouldn't allow it thanks to his improved game and ballstriking ability, but also his superior serve that gives him the upper hand in rallies

Federer of 2006 would still get destroyed is my verdict.

 

[Oceans]

You are not a biased fan, you are Federer fan, who is biased. And of course you’re propagating the myth that Federer should’ve won all the matches he ever participated in, but cLuTcH happened.

It's quite obvious, isn't it.

 

[ForehandCross]

Two ends of the same spectrum:

One that can't accept that the future is probably better

The other that can't accept that the past might have been better.

Neither will ever accept the other view.

There's no point in threads like these. None.

@MichaelNadal is someone who actually was watching things live then and now. He gave a view and got questioned by his own fandom.

Only and only negativity come from hypotheticals like these threads.

 

[Yugram]

Two ends of the same spectrum:

One that can't accept that the future is probably better

The other that can't accept that the past might have been better.

Neither will ever accept the other view.

There's no point in threads like these. None.

@MichaelNadal is someone who actually was watching things live then and now. He gave a view and got questioned by his own fandom.

Only and only negativity come from hypotheticals like these threads.

The fact that someone watched it live in 2006 doesn’t make him more objective. In fact, the reverse can be true.

 

[ForehandCross]

The fact that someone watched it live in 2006 doesn’t make him more objective. In fact, the reverse can be true.

Umm but then what can we even begin to say about those didn't watch it?

This is circular.

 

[junior74]

Federer's mental strength is being questioned a bit too much these days. I don't think 2020 Nadal is going to put the same pressure on Federer to hit the ball perfectly to the lines. The real question is whether Nadal has the stamina to go five.

Would Nadal without top speed/ physicality have the mental edge in a long, close match?

 

[6august]

Dal, easy question. I don't bet against Nadal in a RG final.

2006 Clayderer < 2011 Clayovic < any RG final version of Nadal.

 

[NatF]

Would Nadal without top speed/ physicality have the mental edge in a long, close match?

Exactly, been the favourite in extended points is a big mental boost in a long match.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

The fact that someone watched it live in 2006 doesn’t make him more objective. In fact, the reverse can be true.

What makes you more objective?

 

[Ray Mercer]

I think it’s an absolute joke how some people think that a slightly better serve and more experience makes up for a significant loss in retrieving ability and athleticism. The fundamental greatness of Nadal lies in his athleticism. He’s never been anywhere near as good of a first strike player as Federer. As soon as Nadal lost his speed and Federer updated his equipment Nadal was a punching bag for an old geriatric Federer.

 

[The Blond Blur]

2020 DO RAFA doesn’t have to be better than 2006 RG RAFA. He just has to be better than 2006 RG Ol’ Rog, which he would be.

Spoiler

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

2020 DO RAFA doesn’t have to be better than 2006 RG RAFA. He just has to be better than 2006 RG Ol’ Rog, which he would be.

Spoiler

Can someone post a gif of 2015dal hitting an inside-in forehand winner and conclude he must not have been in a slump at all? I'm not a gif master.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Can someone post a gif of 2015dal hitting an inside-in forehand winner and conclude he must not have been in a slump at all? I'm not a gif master.

Nor are you fun at parties

 

[Spencer Gore]

People are being unfair on Federer.

If 2020 Nadal played as badly in the first set as 2006 Nadal it is entirely possible that Roger could win a set again.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

It takes watching a just few games of the 2020 final to note the massive disparity in Nadal and Djokovic's footwork. Nadal has visibly lost tons of speed and so has Djokovic but less, he's faster than Nadal now. Rafito still retains great foot- and bodywork on clay though, hitting balls as well as he can within reach. Djokovic was found wanting on that front dozens of times, literally every game there are points which he loses by not striking the ball correctly due to funky movement. Lmao prime comparisons rofl.

 

[aldeayeah]

I think it'd be close. Jesusfed should be clearly favored, but the matchup on clay is what it is, so we'd have a match.

If it goes to an attrition battle Fed should have the advantage too. So I'd say 66 fed/33 nadal. Most likely result Fed in 4.