2006 vs 2015 competition (once again)

Which season was more difficult to totally dominate and possibly collect the CYGS in: 2006 or 2015?

  • Total voters
    49
AnOctorokForDinner

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
I've seen many Djokovic enjoyers, and some neutrals who appear to have bought it, praise 2015 for its stronk cumpetishen, certain debaters even going as far as to claim it's one of the most competitive seasons in modern memory. Meanwhile, 2006 gets typically marked as a relatively weak season even by many Fredfans, while detractors slam it as a garbage year only slightly propped up by Claydal if at all.

But is that so? The supporting cast may have been sturdier in 2015, but when comparing seasons from the standpoint of an alpha CYGS-contending dominator like 06 Federer and 15 Djokovic, shall having a fellow dominator opponent on a whole surface not trump it? Would Federer not prefer facing the overall more consistent 2015 field devoid of the mighty prime Nadal on clay? Would even Djokovic, without apriori knowledge of the impending Wawrinka loss, not prefer facing Stan and co to 06dal at RG? Consider "what it tells us" and vote accordingly, if you please.
 
Some coping threads hold more value than others. :cool:

Wondering why Fedal fans have such a problem with 2015?
Fedal were completely shut out of the slams (and almost all big tournaments except Cincy), despite both playing a full schedule. Meanwhile, Nole conquered Everest with 16585 points, taking down 16 top-5 and 31 top-10 opponents along the way.
Must hurt a lot.
 
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The only thing I have to wonder is how much of the existence of this post is due to your favorite player being surpassed by another and the emotional baggage and saltiness involved with that.
 
2015 is better due to not having a Blake and a Ljubicic in the top 5. And due to a stronger top 4 as a whole.

2006 arguably had the stronger top 2.

But given that Nadal finished 2015 in the top 5, it was a clear downgrade from the previous years.
 
mike danny said:
2015 is better due to not having a Blake and a Ljubicic in the top 5. And due to a stronger top 4 as a whole.

2006 arguably had the stronger top 2.

But given that Nadal finished 2015 in the top 5, it was a clear downgrade from the previous years.
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I invite you to look it this way:
Assign a win probability to every round of every slam in either year, multiply the 28 figures to get a CYGS chance. Which one is higher? I would think 15vic had a higher chance due to not facing 06dal, because everyone else's chances to beat him weren't that high and they wouldn't be high against 06erer either, RGrinka potentially aside but even then I sure think Fed would have a much better chance against him than 06dal, heh.
 
The Blond Blur said:
They both sucked tbh. 15 had the stronger (read less crappy) top 10, but 06 had by far the best 2 players. Which in the modern era is really all that matters. Just further cements my belief that 2007-2013 was the best stretch of time in the Big 3 era.
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The competition was perhaps better at every slam in 06 than 10 though, tells us?
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
I just don't like it when people underrate Federer.
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If we ignore the hardcore Djoko fans no one here underrates him. He's in the olympus for a reason.

Can't say the same about some Fed fans involving other players. They didn't (don't) really underrate those other players, they were (are) just salty Fed lost to them so they invented (invent) lots of *conceited* insults and excuses due to the losses. I remember the 2000's and beginning of 2010's very clearly.
 
Daniel Andrade said:
If we ignore the hardcore Djoko fans no one here underrates him. He's in the olympus for a reason.

Can't say the same about some Fed fans involving other players. They didn't (don't) really underrate those other players, they were (are) just salty Fed lost to them so they invented (invent) lots of *conceited* insults and excuses due to the losses. I remember the 2000's and beginning of 2010's very clearly.
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Plenty of people think Joe/Ned are objectively better players than Fred, which is utter bull.

I don't care what happened on the forums aeons ago and neither should you, times have changed (for better and worse).
 
The thing with doing CYGS hypotheticals is it exists only a handful of seasons in tennis history which could actually win CYGS in non-joke years like 2006/2015 (and of course, these are on the weakest end of the spectrum for Big 3 years)

i.e. how many could realistically be contenders for CYGS in a decent year? It can't be more than say 20-25 since the beginning of the OE. No offense to PETE or Lendl but their clay/grass resume just doesn't lend them to winning a CYGS in either year imo. The other issue is, that of these CYGS contender years, almost all of them are Federer, Djokovic, Nadal, or possibly McEnroe.

So, for Djok it would be easier in 2006 than in 2015, and Federer, would be easier in 2015 than 2006.
 
Kralingen said:
The thing with doing CYGS is it's only a handful of seasons in tennis history which could actually win CYGS in non-joke years like 2006/2015 (and of course, these are on the weakest end of the spectrum for Big 3 years)

i.e. how many could realistically be contenders for CYGS in a decent year? It can't be more than say 20-25 since the beginning of the OE. No offense to PETE or Lendl but their clay/grass resume just doesn't lend them to winning a CYGS in either year imo.
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Pete maybe not, but Lendl would have his chances on modern grass
 
Kralingen said:
The thing with doing CYGS hypotheticals is it exists only a handful of seasons in tennis history which could actually win CYGS in non-joke years like 2006/2015 (and of course, these are on the weakest end of the spectrum for Big 3 years)

i.e. how many could realistically be contenders for CYGS in a decent year? It can't be more than say 20-25 since the beginning of the OE. No offense to PETE or Lendl but their clay/grass resume just doesn't lend them to winning a CYGS in either year imo. The other issue is, that of these CYGS contender years, almost all of them are Federer, Djokovic, Nadal, or possibly McEnroe.

So, for Djok it would be easier in 2006 than in 2015, and Federer, would be easier in 2015 than 2006.
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Djok would never in a million years in 2006
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
Plenty of people think Joe/Ned are objectively better players than Fred, which is utter bull.
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That's different to underrating a player.

Thinking Nadal or Djokovic are better players than Federer is just an opinion, as viable as thinking the opposite.

Even if the opinion were to be wrong I doubt it would merit as much attention as you seem to give it.

And I agree with you, I do not care what happened eons ago, I care about today. And based on our current situation, the fact of the matter is that it would be much healthier for you to accept that some people disagree with you about this and have their reasons for it, even if you do not share their opinions. I doubt you will, but it would definitely be better for you in the long term.
 
Daniel Andrade said:
That's different to underrating a player.

Thinking Nadal or Djokovic are better players than Federer is just an opinion, as viable as thinking the opposite.

Even if the opinion were to be wrong I doubt it would merit as much attention as you seem to give it.

And I agree with you, I do not care what happened eons ago, I care about today. And based on our current situation, the fact of the matter is that it would be much healthier for you to accept that some people disagree with you about this and have their reasons for it, even if you do not share their opinions. I doubt you will, but it would definitely be better for you in the long term.
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"Objectively" is important here. Clearly a lot of posters think Djo and/or Ned being superior is no personal opinion but established objective fact. I don't like it when people elevate their possibly wrong opinions to apparently undeniable facts. Obviously it happens way too often outside tennis as well.
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
"Objectively" is important here. Clearly a lot of posters think Djo and/or Ned being superior is no personal opinion but established objective fact. I don't like it when people elevate their possibly wrong opinions to apparently undeniable facts. Obviously it happens way too often outside tennis as well.
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I don't care too much about it, and neither should you. It's just tennis. But anyway, there are some Fed fans in here that also think they have the objective truth. Go make some posts about it and dissect their arguments, let me know how it goes (y)
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
Meanwhile, 2006 gets typically marked as a relatively weak season even by many Fredfans, while detractors slam it as a garbage year only slightly propped up by Claydal if at all.
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Yes and I've never understood that.

But when it comes to 2015 (the 5th year of Nole's peak), it only needs to be pointed out that Djokovic faced old Roger Federer in the final of Dubai and Indian Wells and Rome and Wimbledon and Cincinnati and the US Open and the ATP Finals.
 
Daniel Andrade said:
I don't care too much about it, and neither should you. It's just tennis. But anyway, there are some Fed fans in here that also think they have the objective truth. Go make some posts about it and dissect their arguments, let me know how it goes (y)
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Well, we both still care enough to post. :<
The Joe/Ned fans here have already expended tons of effort on exposing those guys you speak of, it's not that exciting now that there's a dearth of Fed-goat-posting. I did post some anti-Fedfan-bias threads way back when that were not yet the case before Djodal counts got fattened.
 
Safin Hewitt and Agassi all disappearing from the top of the game in 05 leaves a big vacuum and Roddick permanently falling from his best also hurts big time. Nadal was not ready to step up yet he mostly regressed from the year before though he’s still a solid number 2. No one really fills the void either what do we have a slightly improved Davydenko? You could make a serious case that James Blake was the second best HCer in the world in 2006. Yikes. 2015 on the other hand has 4 of the big 5 improving from what was a solid year before and the rest of the top 10 playing consistent and sometimes threatening tennis. Obviously a stronger year.
 
The Guru said:
Safin Hewitt and Agassi all disappearing from the top of the game in 05 leaves a big vacuum and Roddick permanently falling from his best also hurts big time. Nadal was not ready to step up yet he mostly regressed from the year before though he’s still a solid number 2. No one really fills the void either what do we have a slightly improved Davydenko? You could make a serious case that James Blake was the second best HCer in the world in 2006. Yikes. 2015 on the other hand has 4 of the big 5 improving from what was a solid year before and the rest of the top 10 playing consistent and sometimes threatening tennis. Obviously a stronger year.
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O esteemed expert, bless me with your profound knowledge in the format of participating in this sort of evaluation:
"Assign a win probability to every round of every slam in either year, multiply the 28 figures to get a CYGS chance. Which one is higher?"
 
BauerAlmeida said:
2015 is definitely better than 2006 in terms of competition as a whole. However, 2006 would be harder to make a CYGS because you'd have to beat Nadal at Roland Garros
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Isn't the latter what matters most when we compare such mammoth performances as 2006 Federer and 2015 Djokovic though?
 
The Guru said:
Safin Hewitt and Agassi all disappearing from the top of the game in 05 leaves a big vacuum and Roddick permanently falling from his best also hurts big time. Nadal was not ready to step up yet he mostly regressed from the year before though he’s still a solid number 2. No one really fills the void either what do we have a slightly improved Davydenko? You could make a serious case that James Blake was the second best HCer in the world in 2006. Yikes. 2015 on the other hand has 4 of the big 5 improving from what was a solid year before and the rest of the top 10 playing consistent and sometimes threatening tennis. Obviously a stronger year.
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All true points, but I have 2006 Nadal as stronger than 2015 Fed
 
Kralingen said:
The thing with doing CYGS hypotheticals is it exists only a handful of seasons in tennis history which could actually win CYGS in non-joke years like 2006/2015 (and of course, these are on the weakest end of the spectrum for Big 3 years)

i.e. how many could realistically be contenders for CYGS in a decent year? It can't be more than say 20-25 since the beginning of the OE. No offense to PETE or Lendl but their clay/grass resume just doesn't lend them to winning a CYGS in either year imo. The other issue is, that of these CYGS contender years, almost all of them are Federer, Djokovic, Nadal, or possibly McEnroe.

So, for Djok it would be easier in 2006 than in 2015, and Federer, would be easier in 2015 than 2006.
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How do you think 2006erer would have gone at 2015 RG? Stan got some precious wins over Fed in 2014/2015 but that would be a world away from facing the machine-like 2006 version?
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
Isn't the latter what matters most when we compare such mammoth performances as 2006 Federer and 2015 Djokovic though?
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But Djokovic having to compete with Murray, Wawrinka and Federer himself in the other 3 slams can't be brushed aside. 2006 had Safin falling off a cliff, Hewitt declining a lot, Roddick declining as a threat, although he was still pretty consistent (this had happened in 2005 actually compared to his 03-04 form), Agassi being done, etc. Nalbandian was great the first half of the season, but a bit disappointing in big matches in general (lost SF at AO, RG, Miami and Rome), Davydenko had a great year, but he was always a bit disappointing in big matches and slams.

I agree that having Nadal there is more important than any depth in 5-10 or 10-20 spots, but a much stronger TOP 5 is a big factor.
 
Djokovic quite clearly. BTW if you ever want to have a laugh, check out Ned's 2006 Wimbledon draw lol. " Robert Kendrick " took Dull to 5 and was his toughest competition.

It's really unreal how many AI generated fake players existed in that era of tennis.
 
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BrokenGears said:
Djokovic quite clearly. BTW if you ever want to have a laugh, check out Ned's 2006 Wimbledon draw lol. " Robert Kendrick " took Dull to 5.

It's really unreal how many fake players exist in this era of tennis.
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Wawrinka faced match point vs Dan Evans at 2016 USO, then went on to beat Novack in the final. Of course, Nolephiles claim he was extremely injured playing at 0,000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of his true capabilities etc. I could bet my life lots of you mugs would be signing entirely different tunes if only Djokovic won.
 
BauerAlmeida said:
But Djokovic having to compete with Murray, Wawrinka and Federer himself in the other 3 slams can't be brushed aside. 2006 had Safin falling off a cliff, Hewitt declining a lot, Roddick declining as a threat, although he was still pretty consistent (this had happened in 2005 actually compared to his 03-04 form), Agassi being done, etc. Nalbandian was great the first half of the season, but a bit disappointing in big matches in general (lost SF at AO, RG, Miami and Rome), Davydenko had a great year, but he was always a bit disappointing in big matches and slams.

I agree that having Nadal there is more important than any depth in 5-10 or 10-20 spots, but a much stronger TOP 5 is a big factor.
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Most of the supporting cast were stronger in 2015 of course, but the monster that was 06 claydal really tips the scales, right?
 
Im(moral) Winner said:
It's up there with Nole's draw
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Dude, Babyovic took Fraud's stronk grass court competition Ancic to 5 sets in that Wimbledon.

AnOctorokForDinner said:
Wawrinka faced match point vs Dan Evans at 2016 USO, then went on to beat Novack in the final. Of course, Nolephiles claim he was extremely injured playing at 0,000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of his true capabilities etc. I could bet my life lots of you mugs would be signing entirely different tunes if only Djokovic won.
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2016 USO was a disgraceful tournament, I've long held that if Djokovic actually won that US Open, it would have deservedly been treated as equivalent to how Dull's 2017 USO is looked at even if he was also significantly comprised with his elbow issues

Really only good for potential USO HC propaganda purposes, but a paper tiger

Also, Nolephiles really doesn't roll off the tongue like Fedophiles. I saw Sinner fans on Xitter come up with that name.
 
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top8elo.jpg


average ELO of top8 in 2015 was ca 2330, 2nd best in OE (2012 being best) while average ELO of top8 in 2006 was ca 2220, apr as in 2023!
 
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2015 because of such legends in the SF such as Seppi, Goffin and Bautista Agut. Sarcasm invoked.

At least in 2006 Roddick was a GS champ and top 10 player, along with Davydenko in the top 10 and Youzhny as a strong up and comer that took our Nadal.
 
BrokenGears said:
Dude, Babyovic took Fraud's stronk grass court competition Ancic to 5 sets in that Wimbledon.
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Always found it quite funny, maybe babyvic wasn't too bad of a grasscourter, heh.

BrokenGears said:
2016 USO was a disgraceful tournament, I've long held that if Djokovic actually won that US Open, it would have deservedly been treated as equivalent to how Dull's 2017 USO is looked at even if he was also significantly comprised with his elbow issues
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BrokenGears said:
Really only good for potential USO HC propaganda purposes, but a paper tiger
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You feel free to say that because he lost, so no skin off your back shyttalking the tournament. Should Djokovic have won, I'm quite certain little of this would be found.


BrokenGears said:
Also, Nolephiles really doesn't roll off the tongue like Fedophiles. I saw Sinner fans on Xitter come up with that name.
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They didn't invent jack, I used "fedophiles" like a decade ago.
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
You feel free to say that because he lost, so no skin off your back shyttalking the tournament. Should Djokovic have won, I'm quite certain little of this would be found
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It wouldn't matter what I felt, Fraud and Dull fans would have been bombarding the forum

AnOctorokForDinner said:
They didn't invent jack, I used "fedophiles" like a decade ago.
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Don't remember seeing that insult before this year ngl
 
The next generation of players should've been in the process of taking over by 2015, yet none ended the year in the top-5! Only one (#8 Nishikori) was in the top-10.

The youngest top-5 was 28 years old.
 
BrokenGears said:
It wouldn't matter what I felt, Fraud and Dull fans would have been bombarding the forum
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Hurtposting happens after every slam, especially back then. Eventually stuff grows old and isn't brought up that frequently. Happened to USO 17 itself as well, you don't see it rehashed daily now.

BrokenGears said:
Don't remember seeing that insult before this year ngl
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Not my fault. I recall using it on Russian forums before I even joined here lol. Those were the peak schizo days, some of the crazies populating tennis forums back then won't be surpassed (mods won't let them anyway).
 
Fedal fan here and yeah the top 10 was moderately stronger in 2015. Doesn't make a grand difference to me though since 06 Fed is not struggling with any of the 2015 top ten except Djoko (assuming we exclude fed himself from 2015) and bull would still be favoured against anyone else on clay and make at least the SF of wimby (Gasquet could do it lol).
 
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