2008-10 Federer vs 2012-14 Djokovic

Who was better?

  • 2008-2010 Federer

    Votes: 17 39.5%
  • 2012-2014 Djokovic

    Votes: 26 60.5%

  • Total voters
    43
  • This poll will close: .

The Sinner

Semi-Pro
2008-2010 Federer (age 27-29)
During these 3 seasons The Swiss Maestro won 4 slams and was runner-up 4 times (losing to Nadal, Nadal, Nadal, Del Potro respectively), in addition won 1 YEC, and had 1 YE No1.

2012-2014 Djokovic (age 25-27)
Albeit 2 years younger and still considered by most, as in the best years of a professional tennis player, Djoker won 3 slams and was runner-up 5 times (losing to Nadal, Murray, Murray, Nadal, Nadal respectively), in addition won 3 YECs, and had 2 YE No1s.

Despite being great years for most other players, they were still considered kinda mediocre for both Fed & Djoko, especially when comparing them to the heights of their 2004-07 & 2011/15 seasons respectively. Fedr gets a lot of flack for not winning as much (as in 2004-07)… his naysayers contributing it, NOT, to a slight decline, but to solely being the competition getting stronger, and that, because Federer is Federer, his peak of 2004-07 is expected to carry through all the way to 2019, at age 38.

Djokovic on the other hand, doesn’t really get as much flack for not winning as much as his other formidable two seasons, and instead, the reasoning behind the slight drop, is that it’s impossible to maintain the 2011/15 levels for so many years in a row, plus the competition was super strong. That said, the golden age of tennis is generally accepted as being 2008-13, or could be stretched even to 2007-14. So not much difference really, when we’re considering competition.

So who was better between the two? IMO, it is very close, and if I had to pick one, I’d give the edge to Federer by virtue of the extra slam won. But, is one extra slam more significant than two extra YECs, one more YE No1, and winning a few more Masters 1000?

Decide for yourselves.
 

Djokodalerer31

Hall of Fame
What do you mean by "better" can you clarify? If by results, than 2012-2014 Djokovic is better, than 2008-2010 Federer even with one less slam, but if it's something else like peak level or competition, then it's a different story, up for a debate honestly, who had better comeptition Federer from 2008 till 2010 or Djokovic from 2012 till 2014? Depends on many factors! Well if Federer's case he contested the most memorable and historically significant grand slam final of all times between Nadal in 2008 at the Wimbledon, in comparison there were no matches involving Djokovic from 2012 till 2014 AS iconic as that particular one, only 2012 AO and 2014 Wimbledon ever can comare even remotely, but even then i doubt it's on the same level as 2008 W final...then another question arises, who had higher peak during respective period? Federer from 2008 till 2010 or Djokovic from 2012 till 2014? Tricky again, because both weren't at their absolute primes, so it makes it hard to quantify that...
 

GoatNo1

Hall of Fame
Djokovic on the other hand, doesn’t really get as much flack for not winning as much as his other formidable two seasons, and instead, the reasoning behind the slight drop, is that it’s impossible to maintain the 2011/15 levels for so many years in a row, plus the competition was super strong. That said, the golden age of tennis is generally accepted as being 2008-13, or could be stretched even to 2007-14. So not much difference really, when we’re considering competition.

11-15

top8elo.jpg
 

The Sinner

Semi-Pro
What do you mean by "better" can you clarify? If by results, than 2012-2014 Djokovic is better, than 2008-2010 Federer even with one less slam, but if it's something else like peak level or competition, then it's a different story, up for a debate honestly, who had better comeptition Federer from 2008 till 2010 or Djokovic from 2012 till 2014? Depends on many factors! Well if Federer's case he contested the most memorable and historically significant grand slam final of all times between Nadal in 2008 at the Wimbledon, in comparison there were no matches involving Djokovic from 2012 till 2014 AS iconic as that particular one, only 2012 AO and 2014 Wimbledon ever can comare even remotely, but even then i doubt it's on the same level as 2008 W final...then another question arises, who had higher peak during respective period? Federer from 2008 till 2010 or Djokovic from 2012 till 2014? Tricky again, because both weren't at their absolute primes, so it makes it hard to quantify that...
If we factor in peak level, year by year, would you agree:
2008 Federer = 2012 Djokovic
2009 Federer > 2013 Djokovic
2010 Federer < 2014 Djokovic
?
 

Djokodalerer31

Hall of Fame
According to this chart the late 80s to mid 90s is pretty low, yet they are considered by the experts, as some of the strongest years in tennis history.

I dunno about that honestly, i have a feeling many experts (including some of the from TTW...) just might give way too much credit to both of those tennis eras...they weren't hitting the ball back then, they were moonballing them most of the time, while playing at 0.5 speed...
 

Rafa4LifeEver

G.O.A.T.
2008-2010 Federer (age 27-29)
During these 3 seasons The Swiss Maestro won 4 slams and was runner-up 4 times (losing to Nadal, Nadal, Nadal, Del Potro respectively), in addition won 1 YEC, and had 1 YE No1.

2012-2014 Djokovic (age 25-27)
Albeit 2 years younger and still considered by most, as in the best years of a professional tennis player, Djoker won 3 slams and was runner-up 5 times (losing to Nadal, Murray, Murray, Nadal, Nadal respectively), in addition won 3 YECs, and had 2 YE No1s.

Despite being great years for most other players, they were still considered kinda mediocre for both Fed & Djoko, especially when comparing them to the heights of their 2004-07 & 2011/15 seasons respectively. Fedr gets a lot of flack for not winning as much (as in 2004-07)… his naysayers contributing it, NOT, to a slight decline, but to solely being the competition getting stronger, and that, because Federer is Federer, his peak of 2004-07 is expected to carry through all the way to 2019, at age 38.

Djokovic on the other hand, doesn’t really get as much flack for not winning as much as his other formidable two seasons, and instead, the reasoning behind the slight drop, is that it’s impossible to maintain the 2011/15 levels for so many years in a row, plus the competition was super strong. That said, the golden age of tennis is generally accepted as being 2008-13, or could be stretched even to 2007-14. So not much difference really, when we’re considering competition.

So who was better between the two? IMO, it is very close, and if I had to pick one, I’d give the edge to Federer by virtue of the extra slam won. But, is one extra slam more significant than two extra YECs, one more YE No1, and winning a few more Masters 1000?

Decide for yourselves.
AO - 2012 Djokovic ≈ 2009 Federer > 2010 Federer > 2013 Djokovic > 2014 Djokovic > 2008 Federer

RG - 2013 Djokovic > 2009 Federer > 2012 Djokovic ≈ 2008 Federer > 2014 Djokovic > 2010 Federer

Wimbledon - 2008 Federer > 2009 Federer > 2012 Djokovic ≈ 2014 Djokovic > 2013 Djokovic > 2010 Federer

USO - 2008 Federer > 2009 Federer > 2013 Djokovic ≈ 2010 Federer > 2012 Djokovic > 2014 Djokovic

Tour Finals or WTF - 2010 Federer > 2012 Djokovic > 2013 Djokovic ≈ 2014 Djokovic > 2009 Federer > 2008 Federer
 

Kralingen

Bionic Poster
It would be really concerning for Djokovic if he couldn’t be better than 2 years where Federer was ROFLMAO for large swathes of the season
 

Neptune

Hall of Fame
So who was better between the two? IMO, it is very close, and if I had to pick one

Nole is better and not even close.

Fed 2008-10
8 big titles, average ≈9925 atp points (2008 points adjusted)
82.76% 192-40 overall
average opponent rank 23 (Elo 2041)
59.38% 38-26 vs top10

Nole 2012-14
16 big titles, average 12180 atp points
87.87%
210-29 overall
average opponent rank 18 (Elo 2092)
76.14% 67-21 vs top10
 

Neptune

Hall of Fame
What a shame. I honestly don’t know how we can go on as tennis fans seeing our beautiful game disgraced by such blatant cheating. This may be my final straw.

well, you are guru, but post #15 looks like rookie.
slam draws are all public, you never noticed insane odd? I guess not.
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
2008-2010 Federer (age 27-29)
During these 3 seasons The Swiss Maestro won 4 slams and was runner-up 4 times (losing to Nadal, Nadal, Nadal, Del Potro respectively), in addition won 1 YEC, and had 1 YE No1.

2012-2014 Djokovic (age 25-27)
Albeit 2 years younger and still considered by most, as in the best years of a professional tennis player, Djoker won 3 slams and was runner-up 5 times (losing to Nadal, Murray, Murray, Nadal, Nadal respectively), in addition won 3 YECs, and had 2 YE No1s.

Despite being great years for most other players, they were still considered kinda mediocre for both Fed & Djoko, especially when comparing them to the heights of their 2004-07 & 2011/15 seasons respectively. Fedr gets a lot of flack for not winning as much (as in 2004-07)… his naysayers contributing it, NOT, to a slight decline, but to solely being the competition getting stronger, and that, because Federer is Federer, his peak of 2004-07 is expected to carry through all the way to 2019, at age 38.

Djokovic on the other hand, doesn’t really get as much flack for not winning as much as his other formidable two seasons, and instead, the reasoning behind the slight drop, is that it’s impossible to maintain the 2011/15 levels for so many years in a row, plus the competition was super strong. That said, the golden age of tennis is generally accepted as being 2008-13, or could be stretched even to 2007-14. So not much difference really, when we’re considering competition.

So who was better between the two? IMO, it is very close, and if I had to pick one, I’d give the edge to Federer by virtue of the extra slam won. But, is one extra slam more significant than two extra YECs, one more YE No1, and winning a few more Masters 1000?

Decide for yourselves.

Federer was older AND won more Slams?

And Gioco is still winning the poll?
 

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
Without looking at the respective seasons, I'd guess Fed would be better at the Slams but Djokovic much better everywhere else.

Now let's take a look:

2008 Fed vs. 2012 Djokovic:

AO: Djokovic
IW: Djokovic (both meh losses but the Fish match was one of the worst Fed had ever played up to that point)
Miami: Djokovic
Monte-Carlo: Federer
Madrid/Hamburg: Federer
Rome: Djokovic
RG: Djokovic
Wimbledon: Federer
Canada: Djokovic
Cincinnati: Djokovic
US Open: Federer
Shanghai/Madrid Indoors: Djokovic
Paris: Djokovic
YEC: Djokovic

Fed leads at two of the Slams and in a couple of the clay Masters but Djokovic sweeps otherwise.

2009 Fed vs. 2013 Djokovic:

AO: Djokovic (close-ish)
IW: Even
Miami: Federer
Monte-Carlo: Djokovic
Rome: Federer (close)
Madrid: Federer
RG: Federer (likely a controversial pick and it's indeed close)
Wimbledon: Federer
Canada: Djokovic
Cincinnati: Federer
US Open: Federer
Shanghai: Djokovic by default
Paris: Djokovic
YEC: Djokovic

Fed leads at the Slams 3-1 (or ties 2-2 if you're not as high on RG 2009 Fed), Djokovis with the edge in Bo3, though it's slighter than in 2012 vs. 2008. I'd say Fed's season was better.

2010 Fed vs. 2014 Djokovic:

AO: Federer
IW: Djokovic
Miami: Djokovic
Monte-Carlo: Djokovic by default
Madrid: Federer by default
Rome: Djokovic
RG: Djokovic (I thought Fed was actually quite good in 2010 RG but Soderling was red hot... this is a close one)
Wimbledon: Djokovic
Canada: Federer
Cincinnati: Federer
US Open: Federer (neither were that great but Fed's loss was more flattering)
Shanghai: Djokovic
Paris: Djokovic (losing to Monfils is an instant disqualification)
YEC: Even (Fed's competition was stronger and he looked great throughout, but Djokovic also looked really good in 2014...)

They split the Slams like with 2008 vs. 2012 but Fed is a bit better at the Masters here. However, Djokovic still outdoes him in Bo3, by huge margins in some cases.

Overall, Djokovic was better in this period but Fed was slightly better at the Slams. His huge walkabouts in Bo3 don't do him any favors though and Djokovic's massive lead there ultimately carries him to the win.
 

The Sinner

Semi-Pro
Nole is better and not even close.

Fed 2008-10
8 big titles, average ≈9925 atp points (2008 points adjusted)
82.76% 192-40 overall
average opponent rank 23 (Elo 2041)
59.38% 38-26 vs top10

Nole 2012-14
16 big titles, average 12180 atp points
87.87%
210-29 overall
average opponent rank 18 (Elo 2092)
76.14% 67-21 vs top10
How is it not even close!? Fed won 4 slams to Djoko’s 3. Slams are the number one marker when talking about who is/was greater.
 

Subway Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Explain how the rigged draw caused Djokovic to play poorly when the chips were down in USO 12 Wim 13 USO 13 RG 14 USO 14?

I am curious
If the aim was to harm Djokovic with rigged draws, that plan has definitely been abandoned, based on the draws he has been getting lately.

Part of Neptune’s theory is that Nadal and Djokovic have not met at certain stages of some events very often. Neptune believes that this has been orchestrated by a cabal within the Grand Slam Committee.
 

The Sinner

Semi-Pro
Without looking at the respective seasons, I'd guess Fed would be better at the Slams but Djokovic much better everywhere else.

Now let's take a look:

2008 Fed vs. 2012 Djokovic:

AO: Djokovic
IW: Djokovic (both meh losses but the Fish match was one of the worst Fed had ever played up to that point)
Miami: Djokovic
Monte-Carlo: Federer
Madrid/Hamburg: Federer
Rome: Djokovic
RG: Djokovic
Wimbledon: Federer
Canada: Djokovic
Cincinnati: Djokovic
US Open: Federer
Shanghai/Madrid Indoors: Djokovic
Paris: Djokovic
YEC: Djokovic

Fed leads at two of the Slams and in a couple of the clay Masters but Djokovic sweeps otherwise.

2009 Fed vs. 2013 Djokovic:

AO: Djokovic (close-ish)
IW: Even
Miami: Federer
Monte-Carlo: Djokovic
Rome: Federer (close)
Madrid: Federer
RG: Federer (likely a controversial pick and it's indeed close)
Wimbledon: Federer
Canada: Djokovic
Cincinnati: Federer
US Open: Federer
Shanghai: Djokovic by default
Paris: Djokovic
YEC: Djokovic

Fed leads at the Slams 3-1 (or ties 2-2 if you're not as high on RG 2009 Fed), Djokovis with the edge in Bo3, though it's slighter than in 2012 vs. 2008. I'd say Fed's season was better.

2010 Fed vs. 2014 Djokovic:

AO: Federer
IW: Djokovic
Miami: Djokovic
Monte-Carlo: Djokovic by default
Madrid: Federer by default
Rome: Djokovic
RG: Djokovic (I thought Fed was actually quite good in 2010 RG but Soderling was red hot... this is a close one)
Wimbledon: Djokovic
Canada: Federer
Cincinnati: Federer
US Open: Federer (neither were that great but Fed's loss was more flattering)
Shanghai: Djokovic
Paris: Djokovic (losing to Monfils is an instant disqualification)
YEC: Even (Fed's competition was stronger and he looked great throughout, but Djokovic also looked really good in 2014...)

They split the Slams like with 2008 vs. 2012 but Fed is a bit better at the Masters here. However, Djokovic still outdoes him in Bo3, by huge margins in some cases.

Overall, Djokovic was better in this period but Fed was slightly better at the Slams. His huge walkabouts in Bo3 don't do him any favors though and Djokovic's massive lead there ultimately carries him to the win.
Good analysis, however it’s heavily reliant on the Masters. What if we just focused on the more important events like the slams and YEC, where they both were fully invested in. As per your analysis, Masters and slams carry the same weight.
 

fedfan24

Hall of Fame
AO - 2009 Federer > 2012 Djokovic > 2013 Djokovic=2010 Federer > 2014 Djokovic > 2008 Federer
RG - 2013 Djokovic > 2009 Federer > 2012 Djokovic > 2014 Djokovic > 2010 Federer > 2008 Federer
W - 2008 Federer > 2009 Federer > 2014 Djokovic > 2012 Djokovic > 2013 Djokovic > 2010 Djokovic
USO - 2008 Federer > 2009 Federer > 2012 Djokovic > 2010 Federer > 2013 Djokovic > 2014 Djokovic
YEC - 2010 Federer > 2012 Djokovic > 2013 Djokovic > 2009 Federer > 2014 Djokovic > 2008 Federer


Federer high peak at the slams except RG imo. You’d need 2008,2011,2016 Djokovic at AO to take down 2009 Fed convincingly there I think.

Masters pretty much all to Djokovic except 2009 Cincy, 2008 Hamburg, 2010 Shanghai to Federer for highest level in those years.
 

GoatNo1

Hall of Fame
Precisely, it is not.
telling outright lies and standing by them does not make your statements more true. it wasn't a nole fan who invented ELO (sheer idiocy to claim such a thing) and it's clear that ELO doesn't show that nole has a higher ELO on CC than rafa (again a lie just to advance your agenda by stating something outlandish but false to discredit something you don't like)!

Highest Hard Elo Rating​


Highest Clay Elo Rating​


Highest Grass Elo Rating​

RankNameElo RatingDate
1Bjorn Borg256207-07-1980
2Rod Laver256123-03-1970
3Roger Federer254706-07-2009
4Jimmy Connors254213-06-1983
5Novak Djokovic
active.png
254011-07-2022
6John McEnroe251709-07-1984
7Pete Sampras250105-07-1999
8Ken Rosewall250021-04-1971
9Andy Murray
active.png
248711-07-2016
10Stefan Edberg248217-06-1991
11Boris Becker244910-07-1989
12Tony Roche243711-01-1970
13John Newcombe242405-07-1971
14Rafael Nadal
active.png
240105-07-2010

 

fedfan24

Hall of Fame
telling outright lies and standing by them does not make your statements more true. it wasn't a nole fan who invented ELO (sheer idiocy to claim such a thing) and it's clear that ELO doesn't show that nole has a higher ELO on CC than rafa (again a lie just to advance your agenda by stating something outlandish but false to discredit something you don't like)!

Highest Hard Elo Rating​


Highest Clay Elo Rating​


Highest Grass Elo Rating​

RankNameElo RatingDate
1Bjorn Borg256207-07-1980
2Rod Laver256123-03-1970
3Roger Federer254706-07-2009
4Jimmy Connors254213-06-1983
5Novak Djokovic
active.png
254011-07-2022
6John McEnroe251709-07-1984
7Pete Sampras250105-07-1999
8Ken Rosewall250021-04-1971
9Andy Murray
active.png
248711-07-2016
10Stefan Edberg248217-06-1991
11Boris Becker244910-07-1989
12Tony Roche243711-01-1970
13John Newcombe242405-07-1971
14Rafael Nadal
active.png
240105-07-2010

Highest grass ELO 09 for Federer and 22 for Djokovic. Calls this stat into question when neither year was anywhere close to being their peak on the surface, by eye test or stats.
 

fedfan24

Hall of Fame
Nole is better and not even close.

Fed 2008-10
8 big titles, average ≈9925 atp points (2008 points adjusted)
82.76% 192-40 overall
average opponent rank 23 (Elo 2041)
59.38% 38-26 vs top10

Nole 2012-14
16 big titles, average 12180 atp points
87.87%
210-29 overall
average opponent rank 18 (Elo 2092)
76.14% 67-21 vs top10
Djokovic definitely better at masters and below events but slam performance + YEC peak are in Fed’s favour.
 

Neptune

Hall of Fame
AO - 2009 Federer > 2012 Djokovic > 2013 Djokovic=2010 Federer > 2014 Djokovic > 2008 Federer
RG - 2013 Djokovic > 2009 Federer > 2012 Djokovic > 2014 Djokovic > 2010 Federer > 2008 Federer
W - 2008 Federer > 2009 Federer > 2014 Djokovic > 2012 Djokovic > 2013 Djokovic > 2010 Djokovic
USO - 2008 Federer > 2009 Federer > 2012 Djokovic > 2010 Federer > 2013 Djokovic > 2014 Djokovic
YEC - 2010 Federer > 2012 Djokovic > 2013 Djokovic > 2009 Federer > 2014 Djokovic > 2008 Federer


Federer high peak at the slams except RG imo. You’d need 2008,2011,2016 Djokovic at AO to take down 2009 Fed convincingly there I think.

Masters pretty much all to Djokovic except 2009 Cincy, 2008 Hamburg, 2010 Shanghai to Federer for highest level in those years.

AO07, RG11, Wimb12, USO09 were the last times Fed won against Nole in each slam.

Fed started 6-0, then 0-11, shocking.
 

fedfan24

Hall of Fame
AO07, RG11, Wimb12, USO09 were the last times Fed won against Nole in each slam.

Fed started 6-0, then 0-11, shocking.
Federer should’ve won 1-2 between 2014-2019 but it’s clear he declined in certain aspects while Djokovic was at or close to his best. Natural progression of ageing ATG vs younger. If Djokovic had reached peak fed between 04-06 fed would’ve racked up a bigger lead. He even avoided him 4 times between 2009AO-2010AO, all certain losses while he was number 3 too.
 

Neptune

Hall of Fame
Elo is a stupid & heavily biased thind invented by some Djokovic fanatics. I recall once one of them even claimed his peak on clay to be higher than Rafa's.

No ranking system is flawless, but both the Elo and ATP systems are well-developed and transparent, far superior to relying on biased feelings or eyetest.
Elo, in particular, excels even better than the ATP ranking in predicting match outcomes, something important to keep in mind.
 

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
Good analysis, however it’s heavily reliant on the Masters. What if we just focused on the more important events like the slams and YEC, where they both were fully invested in. As per your analysis, Masters and slams carry the same weight.
I myself am weighting them differently but you don’t see this in the actual post.
 

TheAssassin

G.O.A.T.
Not getting as much flak? If anything, 2012-14 is the one straw that the objective context brigade grasp at to convince others that Djokovic isn't the greatest lol.

Fed had the best season among all of those in question but also had bigger droughts. Close to call I guess.
 

Neptune

Hall of Fame
Good analysis, however it’s heavily reliant on the Masters. What if we just focused on the more important events like the slams and YEC, where they both were fully invested in. As per your analysis, Masters and slams carry the same weight.

Do you understand ATP ranking points?
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Slams
Federer - 4 Slams, 4 finals
Djokovic - 3 Slams, 5 finals

Weeks at #1
Djokovic - 101
Federer - 81

YE #1
Djokovic - 2
Federer - 1

ATP Finals
Djokovic - 3
Federer - 1

Masters
Djokovic - 10
Federer - 3

Win percentage
Djokovic - 87.87%
Federer - 82.76%

Win percentage against top 10
Djokovic - 76.14%
Federer - 59.38%

I know there's a lot of Slamism around here but it's clearly Djokovic.
 

fedfan24

Hall of Fame
If you say 24>22>20, those same fans suddenly not so Slamism :-D :-D
2008-2014 was part of the normal era of tennis. Didn’t include pisspoor slam finalists such as Tsitsipas or Berretini. Or even jokers like Paul or Norrie making semi final. Bautista Agut making a Wimbledon semi (yikes!)
Easier to compare strength of slams in a proper era vs the **** show since 2020.
 
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