2013 USTA ITF NATIONAL 40s HARD - 5.0 vs 5.0 @ La Jolla Beach & Tennis Club

Gut4Tennis

Hall of Fame
This match was recorded by competitive edge, as they recorded every match on every court. After you played you could then purchase your match for 40 bucks. There is NO sound. The temp was around 70F and a bit breezy. At the time of this match both players have a 5.0 computer rating. The guy in the blue shorts is an east coast 5.0 at 40 years of age, while the white shorts is 50 years old with a 5.0 So Cal West coast rating, and won a 5.5 event in Cali. Notice how the guy in blue shorts keeps his opponent off balance never giving him more then 2 shots in a row to one side :)

My knees were killing me for this event so they both had blue rebrand sleeves on them. There is also a microfiber towel at the small on my back that absorbs sweat.

Nats 40s , Mixed, Father son , Grandfather grandson + La Jolla Beach & Tennis Club IS THE BEST EVENT AND LOCATION
 

eelhc

Hall of Fame
Is it common practice at 5.0 to just leave the balls wherever they sit on the changeovers? Poor etiquette.
 

Gut4Tennis

Hall of Fame
Is it common practice at 5.0 to just leave the balls wherever they sit on the changeovers? Poor etiquette.
What are you talking about? No way its poor anything. When you bring someone the balls to the bench its just one more thing that can get lost in the gear on the bench. Tennis points are started at the baseline, so that's where the balls should be.
 
Last edited:

Sumo

Semi-Pro
What are you talking about?
I agree with you about that. If I've got a ball in my pocket, it goes near the baseline, if not, oh well.

There is something weird about how the match is filmed. All your opponent's shots coming in look really slow until they reach the service line, then you can really see the speed.
 

Gut4Tennis

Hall of Fame
I agree with you about that. If I've got a ball in my pocket, it goes near the baseline, if not, oh well.

There is something weird about how the match is filmed. All your opponent's shots coming in look really slow until they reach the service line, then you can really see the speed.
the camera is very high up, so that might be it. he hit very flat. my looping balls bothered him he said after.
 

raging

Professional
looks to be even match, except that guy who plays flatter really struggled in the wind to keep the ball in play! Your tactic worked.
La Jolla seems a great event, a bit unfair though with Peter Smith teaming up with son Riley in Father & Son event.:) Riley must be 16,17 now and I guess he will be heading to USC in 2016.

Courts looked in good condition and at least you had windbreakers to make things a bit more playable. The slower speed appearance is normal for high camera angle and lots of wind. Video always slows things down from reality.

I would have liked to have seen the next match, which you lost..but if your knees were shot probably not a fair test anyway.:)

30 years of hardcourts will do that to you.
nice video.
 
Last edited:

Moz

Hall of Fame
This seems as good a place as any to ask.

Apart from the World Champs, why are all the USA ITF senior tournaments closed events this year?
 

raging

Professional
moz, I have no idea but they probably got sick of non-nationals coming in and cleaning up the titles!

Stick to the european ITFs, everybody is welcome.

as long as you pay.
 
Last edited:

JLyon

Hall of Fame
good ball striking, definitely more cat and mouse style versus crush everything, look like 5.0's with the placement of shots, nothing fancy but effective.
 

ednegroni

Rookie
The only aspect that really stood out for me was the many missed returns.

I'm a 4.5 doubles player so I take a lot of pride in returning as many serves as I can, so when I play singles I find it much easier to put the ball in play.
 

McLovin

Legend
How different is 40s 5.0 from open 5.0?
For the most part, one word: speed.

I'm a 45 yr old 4.5, but hit regularly w/ a couple of 5.0s, one a recent college grad, another a bit older than me.

The college grad will literally take the racquet out of my hands. I hit w/ him this past Monday and he went up 3-0 in ~ 5 minutes. Winners smacked off both sides, things I couldn't even get a racquet on even though I knew where he was going. I lost 6-4, but in all honesty, that score doesn't adequately reflect how out of the match I was.

The older guy (our pro) is more controlled throughout most of the point. He only goes for the winner when he has moved me out of position, where the college grad will smack one from the word 'go'. The pro will also use varying speeds & spins, as well as effective drop shots & volleys. 95% of the college grad's shots are hit about as hard as he can. The other 5% even harder...
 

Sumo

Semi-Pro
The only aspect that really stood out for me was the many missed returns.

I'm a 4.5 doubles player so I take a lot of pride in returning as many serves as I can, so when I play singles I find it much easier to put the ball in play.
I think that has to do with the filming more than anything else. If you watch the ball from the service line back, it is really moving.
 

McLovin

Legend
This match was recorded by competitive edge, as they recorded every match on every court. After you played you could then purchase your match for 40 bucks. There is NO sound. The temp was around 70F and a bit breezy. At the time of this match both players have a 5.0 computer rating. The guy in the blue shorts is an east coast 5.0 at 40 years of age, while the white shorts is 50 years old with a 5.0 So Cal West coast rating, and won a 5.5 event in Cali. Notice how the guy in blue shorts keeps his opponent off balance never giving him more then 2 shots in a row to one side :)

My knees were killing me for this event so they both had blue rebrand sleeves on them. There is also a microfiber towel at the small on my back that absorbs sweat.

Nats 40s , Mixed, Father son , Grandfather grandson + La Jolla Beach & Tennis Club IS THE BEST EVENT AND LOCATION
Wait...are you one of the players? If so, are you the guy in the blue? Because I think I know you...
 

McLovin

Legend
Apparently they are very different if this passes as a 40s 5.0.
Well, if Gut4Tennis is who I think he is, he was a 4.5 for the longest time, got bumped to a 5.0, then back down to a 4.5 this year.

Not trying to rag on him, he's a real good 4.5, but he's one of those players on the cusp of 4.5-5.0.
 

Gut4Tennis

Hall of Fame
looks to be even match, except that guy who plays flatter really struggled in the wind to keep the ball in play! Your tactic worked.
La Jolla seems a great event, a bit unfair though with Peter Smith teaming up with son Riley in Father & Son event.:) Riley must be 16,17 now and I guess he will be heading to USC in 2016.

Courts looked in good condition and at least you had windbreakers to make things a bit more playable. The slower speed appearance is normal for high camera angle and lots of wind. Video always slows things down from reality.

I would have liked to have seen the next match, which you lost..but if your knees were shot probably not a fair test anyway.:)

30 years of hardcourts will do that to you.
nice video.
As soon as I discovered walking into the ocean after playing was the secret I felt much better. Was able to squeak out a trophy for the back draw somehow.
 

JLyon

Hall of Fame
Typical response.
Unfortunately many can not accept that if someone's game looks different than theres's, they may actually be very good, all one has to do is watch the shots and placement and that tells how good someone is. These guys do nothing spectacular, just good smart tennis.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
As soon as I discovered walking into the ocean after playing was the secret I felt much better. Was able to squeak out a trophy for the back draw somehow.
Yes, the place is right across from the beach, which makes it a little chilly in the evenings.
 

raging

Professional
As soon as I discovered walking into the ocean after playing was the secret I felt much better. Was able to squeak out a trophy for the back draw somehow.
although this thread is all yours..I learnt that first as a junior living near the ocean, long before ice-baths.
Get in the ocean after a long match and the salt water does the rest!:)

Bravo for hanging in for the consolation and also for your courage posting a video here. La Jolla is a great spot with fantastic views. Haven't been there for 20 years.

nice one.
 

ednegroni

Rookie
I think that has to do with the filming more than anything else. If you watch the ball from the service line back, it is really moving.
The angle doesn't let us appreciate very well how the ball is moving but I know how fast it is moving just by the time in between hits.
 

Gut4Tennis

Hall of Fame
This seems as good a place as any to ask.

Apart from the World Champs, why are all the USA ITF senior tournaments closed events this year?
Has it not always been that way? Keep the south american sandbaggers out lol

Why don't you put up video of yourself and we can judge?
spot on, but he never will. They never do. go figure

good ball striking, definitely more cat and mouse style versus crush everything, look like 5.0's with the placement of shots, nothing fancy but effective.
blue collar tennis for sure

How different is 40s 5.0 from open 5.0?
as noted by someone else, speed, and a bit more power . of course within 5.0 there are many levels, as with any rating there is low med and high

Thanks! That camera angle slows things down from real life. And that 50 yo has some great wheels.
He was super fit and thin. He was def very fast

For the most part, one word: speed.

I'm a 45 yr old 4.5, but hit regularly w/ a couple of 5.0s, one a recent college grad, another a bit older than me.

The college grad will literally take the racquet out of my hands. I hit w/ him this past Monday and he went up 3-0 in ~ 5 minutes. Winners smacked off both sides, things I couldn't even get a racquet on even though I knew where he was going. I lost 6-4, but in all honesty, that score doesn't adequately reflect how out of the match I was.

The older guy (our pro) is more controlled throughout most of the point. He only goes for the winner when he has moved me out of position, where the college grad will smack one from the word 'go'. The pro will also use varying speeds & spins, as well as effective drop shots & volleys. 95% of the college grad's shots are hit about as hard as he can. The other 5% even harder...
word
 

Gut4Tennis

Hall of Fame
Wait...are you one of the players? If so, are you the guy in the blue? Because I think I know you...
In the naked flesh

that was one hell of a stretch drop volley at 7:45
Actually he called his own dropper wide, and I called myself for hitting the net. It was a true moment of sportsmanship at its finest. We decided to not hug it out though :)

Well, if Gut4Tennis is who I think he is, he was a 4.5 for the longest time, got bumped to a 5.0, then back down to a 4.5 this year.

Not trying to rag on him, he's a real good 4.5, but he's one of those players on the cusp of 4.5-5.0.
Actually I was only a 4.5 for only one year 2011, and now this year. Self rated and Appeal rating.

Every league match I play people are asking me how in the world did I get back down to 4.5. The reason are from my 2013 40+ 4.5 singles results. I was playing as a 5.0 with an injury and lost a few matches and all other were close. It seems playing with an injury helps to get your rating down. Any ball hit to the corner I would just let it go.

Indeed I'm a low 5.0, but can beat high 5.0s. In usta league matches sadly I dont try quite that hard. I might be a 4.5 in the computer at the moment, and I'm trying to stay there, as there are 5x more matches I can play as a 4.5 then 5.0. I use the usta league matches as my practice for tournament.

I'm proud of the way I find a way to win, and of my national ranking. Hopefully if my knees can get better, I can Improve.

Best of luck to you in tournaments this year

although this thread is all yours..I learnt that first as a junior living near the ocean, long before ice-baths.
Get in the ocean after a long match and the salt water does the rest!:)

Bravo for hanging in for the consolation and also for your courage posting a video here. La Jolla is a great spot with fantastic views. Haven't been there for 20 years.

nice one.
Thanks. Love your input.

Yes, the place is right across from the beach, which makes it a little chilly in the evenings.
Very chilly !!

The angle doesn't let us appreciate very well how the ball is moving but I know how fast it is moving just by the time in between hits.
I prefer to hit medium and move the ball well. I might hit a serve at 95mph if I'm lucky lol
 
Last edited:

arche3

Banned
Hi gut4tns.
I have a health question. Are you wearing calf sleeves? I just got a torn left calf muscle and the physio suggested I use compression calf sleeves going forward. I always get calf cramps as well.
 

McLovin

Legend
In the naked flesh
Ah, so you'd know me by site, but not by name (however, we have the same last name). I've played next to you in a few tournaments (most recently in Fairfax back in October), and we know many of the same people (Gary P., Bill S., Niko, Vinny, etc.), although I don't play the NOVA leagues. Too far to drive and too late at night.

I'm proud of the way I find a way to win, and of my national ranking.
And you should be. Your game can give many people fits. A good friend of mine plays a similar game, and it drives me crazy. What's worse is he's 12 years younger, so he's still got the wheels & the stamina.
 

Gut4Tennis

Hall of Fame
Hi gut4tns.
I have a health question. Are you wearing calf sleeves? I just got a torn left calf muscle and the physio suggested I use compression calf sleeves going forward. I always get calf cramps as well.
I'm wearing compression socks under reg high socks. Hell I might start wearing a full body compression suit!!!! I really think compression is amazing. I highly recommend anything that has firm compression, as the looser stuff its useless IMO. The compression absorbs vibrations in the muscle, improves circulation, and prevents fatigue. Any fracking advantage I can get baby :)

I think the compression socks are better then the calf sleeves(doing the same thing but also help more of the foot and ankle), but you should experiment

Ah, so you'd know me by site, but not by name (however, we have the same last name). I've played next to you in a few tournaments (most recently in Fairfax back in October), and we know many of the same people (Gary P., Bill S., Niko, Vinny, etc.), although I don't play the NOVA leagues. Too far to drive and too late at night.


And you should be. Your game can give many people fits. A good friend of mine plays a similar game, and it drives me crazy. What's worse is he's 12 years younger, so he's still got the wheels & the stamina.
I knew you all along. I think you're a great player. Keep up the good work, and stay out of my age group!!! :)
 

mikeler

Moderator
Ah, so you'd know me by site, but not by name (however, we have the same last name). I've played next to you in a few tournaments (most recently in Fairfax back in October), and we know many of the same people (Gary P., Bill S., Niko, Vinny, etc.), although I don't play the NOVA leagues. Too far to drive and too late at night.


And you should be. Your game can give many people fits. A good friend of mine plays a similar game, and it drives me crazy. What's worse is he's 12 years younger, so he's still got the wheels & the stamina.
Can he hit 5 half volley drop shot winners on break point?
 

arche3

Banned
I'm wearing compression socks under reg high socks. Hell I might start wearing a full body compression suit!!!! I really think compression is amazing. I highly recommend anything that has firm compression, as the looser stuff its useless IMO. The compression absorbs vibrations in the muscle, improves circulation, and prevents fatigue. Any fracking advantage I can get baby :)

I think the compression socks are better then the calf sleeves(doing the same thing but also help more of the foot and ankle), but you should experiment
Thanks for info. The runners I know my age (later 40s early 50s) are all over compressions. Lol. I think its time I do the same. It was a wakeup call last week when I was on court and all of a sudden... pop.... my calf goes out. I felt it pop. Pretty scary. Thought it was achilles. Luckily just a calf tear. 4 weeks and im back on court. I ordered the sleeves already. CEP brand. Will have to try the socks too.
 

ednegroni

Rookie
I prefer to hit medium and move the ball well. I might hit a serve at 95mph if I'm lucky lol
Nothing against your game or anything, I'm just saying how I see it. I've seen 5.0 40&over players and the game is just slower.


My initial observation was about all the missed returns, and I think the speed of the serves should allow for the ball to be put in play even more than you guys did.
 

Gut4Tennis

Hall of Fame
Nothing against your game or anything, I'm just saying how I see it. I've seen 5.0 40&over players and the game is just slower.


My initial observation was about all the missed returns, and I think the speed of the serves should allow for the ball to be put in play even more than you guys did.
I really think you're deeply mistaken as I went and charted the first set only.

In the first set I got 18 of 22 returns in play, and this is counting aces or service winners. He got 20 of 25 serves in play.

You really think 80%+ of returns in play is bad???

I think the % of returns we got in play was excellent.
 
Last edited:

EP1998

Semi-Pro
I think the USTA nationals showing up as closed has to do with IPIN. I think anyone from anywhere can enter a national if they pay for a USTA card, they just can't register on the itf site.
 

Gut4Tennis

Hall of Fame
I think the USTA nationals showing up as closed has to do with IPIN. I think anyone from anywhere can enter a national if they pay for a USTA card, they just can't register on the itf site.
you may be spot on. great point. Just have to register via the usta site after you get a usta membership, and then use a fake mailing address :shock:
 

EP1998

Semi-Pro
Most Americans don't play outside of usa and dont want to pay for the IPIN just to play a national. They did offer a free one at one point
 

Gut4Tennis

Hall of Fame
Most Americans don't play outside of usa and dont want to pay for the IPIN just to play a national. They did offer a free one at one point
If I was financially secure, I would just travel all over the globe playing ITF events for my age group and one age group below. That would be sooo much fun.
 

Gut4Tennis

Hall of Fame
Nothing against your game or anything, I'm just saying how I see it. I've seen 5.0 40&over players and the game is just slower.


My initial observation was about all the missed returns, and I think the speed of the serves should allow for the ball to be put in play even more than you guys did.
all the missed returns??

first set I got 18 of 22 returns in play, and this is counting aces or service winners. He got 20 of 25 returns in play.

80%+ of returns in play is bad???
 
Last edited:

Moz

Hall of Fame
I think the USTA nationals showing up as closed has to do with IPIN. I think anyone from anywhere can enter a national if they pay for a USTA card, they just can't register on the itf site.
Thanks. That makes sense as far as Americans not wanting to pay for an IPIN - although usually (closed) means foreigners aren't allowed to enter (all the other countries tend to have a closed tournament).

Although I assume non-Americans don't have to pay for the USTA card as they have an IPIN.

EDIT: No you are correct - "Entry to this tournament is open to all USTA members". How much does that cost these days?
 
Last edited:

beernutz

Hall of Fame
Thanks. That makes sense as far as Americans not wanting to pay for an IPIN - although usually (closed) means foreigners aren't allowed to enter (all the other countries tend to have a closed tournament).

Although I assume non-Americans don't have to pay for the USTA card as they have an IPIN.

EDIT: No you are correct - "Entry to this tournament is open to all USTA members". How much does that cost these days?
19 and over is $44
Junior is $20
Family is $72
But you can buy 5 year memberships at a reduced yearly rate. Three years ago I think I paid $265 for a 5 year family membership.
 

raging

Professional
I'm thinking, if one's plan is to really attack seconds, 80% might be too high.
I guess the OP can answer better but at this level it isn't about attacking seconds, the 80% was overall returns...the other poster ednegroni thought there were too many return errors. 80% is perfect for seniors tennis, make the other guy play.

I think it was more about keeping the ball in play, varying the attack, changing the game and not giving the opponent a chance to settle. In windy, cooler conditions pretty good tactics.

It seemed to work.:)
 

Gut4Tennis

Hall of Fame
I guess the OP can answer better but at this level it isn't about attacking seconds, the 80% was overall returns...the other poster ednegroni thought there were too many return errors. 80% is perfect for seniors tennis, make the other guy play.

I think it was more about keeping the ball in play, varying the attack, changing the game and not giving the opponent a chance to settle. In windy, cooler conditions pretty good tactics.

It seemed to work.:)
thank you

someone is paying attention
 
Top