Mainad
Bionic Poster
Djokovic-Murray is scheduled for 5.30am; Berdych-Klizan for 12.30pm.
2014 China Open ATP Singles Main Draw
- Thread starter slamwarrior
- Start date
Djokovic-Murray is scheduled for 5.30am; Berdych-Klizan for 12.30pm.
newpball
Legend
Hopefully Djokovic performs a quick and professional execution as we are used to. 6-4, 6-1?
:grin:
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Hoping Murray goes on a tear and wins this. Would be good to have a competitive WTF
Hoping it is Stan , Cilic, Murray, Nishi and Dmitrov to join the top 3.
Perhaps Berdych will make it after this week's performance
Hoping it is Stan , Cilic, Murray, Nishi and Dmitrov to join the top 3.
Perhaps Berdych will make it after this week's performance
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Well, that may be YOUR hope. The rest of us are looking forward to another close-fought match between 2 players who, when at their best, are a good match-up for each other on a tennis court!
newpball
Legend
tipsa...don'tlikehim!
Talk Tennis Guru
Since i had a pretty big bet on Djokovic to win the title, Nadal out is a good news but i am a bit afraid of Murray now :twisted:
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Is that the reason he flunked against him at 2 major finals ?
tipsa...don'tlikehim!
Talk Tennis Guru
not sure, this loss reminds me the loss to Zeballos last year, he was a set up but break up can't remember
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
At least you're not bitter T_O! :lol:
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
I just hope the pattern is different this time around. Enough of Rafa.
newpball
Legend
One is more than one year ago while the other is more than two years ago.
There will come a time when Murray's ancient victories do not matter much anymore to present games.
Let's get real here the last time I checked Murray is not even in the top 10.
:grin:
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Murray will save tennis in his snazzy tight kit
LOL, it would really sting you even if Novak were to win another 500 title wouldn't it MN? :lol: Oh well, I have a feeling Murray will beat him anyway so you'll sleep well tomorrow night I'm sure.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
This is just like Wimbledon 2014.
At this point it is a win for everyone irrespective of final results.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Then your're just ignoring history, aren't you? They are 2-2 in Grand Slam finals and 3-2 to Murray in others. If that doesn't indicate how close they can be as a match-up, then you're just being yet another biased Djokovic fanboy, aren't you and I already thought we had our quota of those around here!
tipsa...don'tlikehim!
Talk Tennis Guru
Benneteau/Pospisil playing doubles this week and doing great
next: Brunstrom/Monroe
next: Brunstrom/Monroe
newpball
Legend
I am certainly a fan of Djokovic, he is a great player. And no I am sorry that I cannot say the same about Murray.
Murray certainly has talent and drive but he actually misses that what Djokovic has much of and that is discipline!
Focus, determination, perfectionism, these are all terms that are almost written for Djokovic while they are almost totally absent to Murray. With Murray we often see his talent and drive being obliterated by the "getting mad at himself" act. It's a shame, really!
He needs a good coach, someone into Zen or some other discipline, or perhaps he should take on some martial art like Aikido to learn discipline and focus.
:grin:
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Djokovic could retire tomorrow or win the CYGS and I'd have a lendl face regardless. Can I have some fun on here without you acting like I give a crap about Novak? I want Murray to beat Djokovic because I like him better, oooh shocker :roll: If Nadal is out of the tournament, Djokovic can buy it for all I care, I'm off the next 2 nights and have a lot of fun planned
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Federer:
2004: L to Berdych #79
2005: L to Gasquet #101
2007: L to Canas #60, L to Canas #55, L to Volandri #53
2008: L to Fish #98
2009: L to Benneteau #49 (close enough)
2012: L to Haas #87
2013: L to Stakhovsky #116, he was #5 when he lost to Delbonis and Brands so I won't count them.
All up when ranked #3 or higher he lost 9 matches including the Benneteau loss. If you want to cry about 1 ranking spot, fine we'll call it 8 matches.
Nadal:
2005: L to Waske #149, L to Muller #69, L to Blake #49
2006: L to Clement #65, L to Youzhny #54, L to Johansson #690
2007: L to Mahut #106
2010: L to Garcia-Lopez #53
2012: L to Rosol #100
2014: L to Brown #85, L to Kyrgios #144, L to Klizan #53
So that's 12 losses. Only 3 more than Federer and half of them when he was a teenager and only his clay results boosted his ranking over clowns like Blake and Ljubicic back then.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Djokovic could retire tomorrow or win the CYGS and I'd have a lendl face regardless Can I have some fun on here without you acting like I give a crap about Novak? I want Murray to beat Djokovic because I like him better, oooh shocker :roll: If Nadal is out of the tournament, Djokovic can buy it for all I care, I'm off the next 2 nights and have a lot of fun planned
Nah, sorry mate but I ain't buying that for a second. Not with all the things you've said about Novak since I first started browsing this forum, no way.
If Novak did win the CYGS (not that he ever will) you'd need some very strong antiseptic for the wounds. Heck, I think you'd have needed it even if he'd won the USO last month! :grin:
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
You don't have to buy anything, because I'm not trying to sell anything. I missed half the Nadal match because I was at the doctors for my autoimmune condition. Translation: My day goes the same way if Djokovic wins or loses, it's the smallest concern in my life. Again, it's NOT THAT SERIOUS and I'm frankly getting tired of telling you my life doesn't revolve around tennis results. I'm a realist, and I know exactly how good he is, you think i'm going to sit here mad if he beats Murray?
Edit: and to elaborate, the reason I get so irritated is because I come on here to enjoy good conversations and talk with other people that like tennis. Not to get in STUPID back and forths with trolls like you. I'd like Djokovic at this point if his fans weren't all such asses. He hasn't done a thing I thought was that bad all year.
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mike danny
Bionic Poster
Nadal skipped some slams as well, thus avoiding other losses
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Come on man, the only ones he skipped you reckon he'd lose to someone out of top 50? Wimbledon is the only one where he'd realistically have that happen and he didn't skip it apart from 2009 when his grass game was top 2 and he was making WIM finals.
Lol at least have a think before you post nonsense.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Haha.. Look at the players Fed lost and those that Nadal lost to !!
Haha look how many times Fed lost to Nadal :lol:
Even lost to him on grass :lol:
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Dude, really? Look who you're going back and forth with. Come on. He's here just to play with you and you jump in his hands.
tipsa...don'tlikehim!
Talk Tennis Guru
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Yeah good point.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
tipsa...don'tlikehim!
Talk Tennis Guru
:lol: :lol:
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
What is even funnier, is the predictable duality of the fanatics. Had he won this tournament, it would have been held up as one of the greatest achievements in sports. Right?
NatF
Bionic Poster
Clay results and 2 HC masters and a Wimbledon final....
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
What is even funnier, is the predictable duality of the fanatics. Had he won this tournament, it would have been held up as one of the greatest achievements in sports. Right?
No, settle down kid it's only a 500 tournament. I know Nadal losing will help you cope with your day, so I'm happy for you..
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Well at least Berdych didn't stop Murray at the USO. Murray beat him right when it mattered
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
When he blasted Gasquet 4 and 0, we saw so many Rafa pics here, that it felt like a major
Mainad
Bionic Poster
No, you're not a fan of Djokovic, you're a fanboy. Important difference. True fans support their man but don't make excuses for their failures and certainly don't disrespect their opponents especially when they have lost to those opponents in important matches. Ergo you are not a true fan, merely a fanboy! Sad but true.
You don't win 2 Slams, 9 Masters titles, an Olympic title and 17 other titles by lacking discipline. Only a biased and deluded fanboy of one of his main rivals could ever come up with such an observation.
See my reply above. What's really a shame is your very silly bias and illogical prejudice. You need to bear in mind that just because you don't personally like a player does not necessarily mean they are a bad player. True fans understand that important distinction. Fanboys like yourself do not.
No, that's advice you should take yourself. You might then learn to make mature and informed observations about the game of tennis and the people who play it. At the moment you're just embarrassing yourself and looking more and more foolish.
newpball
Legend
Dear Mainad:
Bottom line: Djokovic 1st, Murray 11th in the ATP singles ranking.
And that, my friend, is a fact!
Source: http://m.atpworldtour.com/Rankings/Singles.aspx
:grin:
Bottom line: Djokovic 1st, Murray 11th in the ATP singles ranking.
And that, my friend, is a fact!
Source: http://m.atpworldtour.com/Rankings/Singles.aspx
:grin:
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Yeah and everybody else is ranked below Djokovic. Does that mean all players ranked below Djokovic are not great players? When Murray was ranked #2 a year ago did that mean he was still not a great player because he was only ranked #2? Did Nadal and Federer cease to be great players when their rankings fell to #5 and #8 not so long ago?
Grow up and start acting with a bit of a maturity. At the moment you sound like you're about 12. Are you about 12?
newpball
Legend
Not at all, but a rank or 1 and 11 is at least one league of a difference.
Indeed, he played far better one to two years ago.
I know you do not like to hear the truth but he clearly lacks focus and discipline to stay at that level. Don't blame me for Murray's dismal performance. If he wants to get back to the absolute top it is not a secret what it takes! Indeed, focus and discipline!
First of all 5 and 8 is still higher than 11. After all eleven is not even top ten anymore! By the way comparing Federer and Nadal to Murray is a stretch to say the least.
I will ignore the personal attacks.
:grin:
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think Nadal fans better get used to seeing more and more results like this one. I happened to turn it on just in time to see Nadal break and go up 3-2 in the third set, and thought, great, perfect timing. Little did I realize that he'd won his last game, lol, including a string of 11 straight points, Klizan beat him like a rented mule, sweet.
SpicyCurry1990
Hall of Fame
What is even funnier, is the predictable duality of the fanatics. Had he won this tournament, it would have been held up as one of the greatest achievements in sports. Right?
What is the FUNNIEST though is at least it takes a TOURNAMENT WIN for Nadal fans to do that unlike proclaiming Federer LOSING in a Wimbledon final is the greatest achievement in sports, but then exhibiting "predictable duality" by then writing off the win for Novak over him as meaningless due to "old" as is the case with every win any player has over Fed. Right?
Oh and then proceeding to satiate your own insecurities by claiming Fed would go 38-2 in his prime vs Nole, despite the fact that Nole has never lost a 5th set to Fed, is 17-18 over-all and 6-6 in slams against him covering a span of 7 years across prime periods of both players. Right? :lol:
Mainad
Bionic Poster
So you where's your cut-off point? When Andre Agassi dropped out of the top 100 at some point in the late 1990s did he cease to be a great player? Did it cast doubt on what he had achieved before?
Indeed he did but at that point when he was winning Slams and being ranked as high as #2, was he then a great player according to you?
How about keeping good health and fitness into the bargain? Is it just a mere coincidence to you that his form and ranking took a nosedive after he underwent back surgery a year ago, something Djokovic, Federer or Nadal have never had to do? How long do you suppose it should take before you recover from a potentially serious operation like that or do you suppose he just did it for fun and used it as some sort of excuse for not being able to play as well as he had done before? How about you learn some truth yourself and establish all the facts before you pass some facile judgement on what Murray should and should not have been doing?
So 5 and 8 are still good but 11 is a no-no? Again, I ask, what is your cut-off point and are you saying that Federer and Nadal should always continue to be regarded with respect for their past achievements no matter how low their rankings may fall but that this same courtesy does not extend to any other player who may be suffering a temporary blip in their performance? Does the fact that Murray has been working hard to build up enough points to qualify for the year end finals by winning a tournament last week, however small, and getting to the semis of one the following week somehow strike you as lacking discipline and focus? Is the fact that he never failed to make the quarter-finals of any of the Grand Slams this year also an indication of this for you?
Then don't invite any.
newpball
Legend
It is very simple really, every player has a development curve, most players start low, then rise, and eventually fall again. It is only natural.
We are talking about a coming match between Djokovic and Murray, not about some timeless comparsion between the two (which allready would be a slam dunk for Djokovic but that is besides the point). Clearly Djokovic is currently absolute top, something we cannot say about Murray, that he won two slams one and two years ago is not really relevant to that discussion.
I wonder why is it so hard to accept that Murray is currently but a shadow of his former tennis self?
He had some luck but generally yes, he played great when he was ranked 2, but that is long passed we are now talking about the present.
Murray reported in march that he was comfortable with his physical condition. One shiny thing about Murray is that he does not try to find lame excuses for his bad playing. That I think is a good quality of his, a quality that is perhaps not shared by all his fans?
Well Murray stated himself in March this year he has no longer problems. It seems only some of the fans keep using it as an excuse.
With respect to a cutoff point, there isn't one in my opinion. It is a sliding scale. Certainly his past achievements are respected, but that does not invalidate the fact that Murray is currently out leagued by Djokovic.
A temporary blip? :shock:
Al right we will both look forward to the 2015 season and see how he performs. :grin:
Frankly it strikes me more as desperation.
The lack of discipline and focus I mentioned is not related to his playing schedule it is related to his composure on court. Getting mad at yourself is simply not a good strategy, if anything it is self destructive. When it happens you no longer focus 100% on each ball, each rally, each game, each set and each match. And to reach and stay at the absolute top you need that focus.
I think it is pretty obvious what I say, anyone knowing a bit about tennis will see what Murray's problem is.
But eh, out of curiosity you don't think so? You think he is one of the most focused and disciplined players on the tour?
:grin:
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Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
I agree with you on this one point. That said, Joker gives a lot of hang-dog looks, complete with hands up in the air, as if the whole world is against him.
Different players have different ways of dealing with stress.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
I'm not talking about their respective overall achievements which clearly favour Djokovic but their personal head to head. In this, Murray is 5-4 v Djokovic in all finals played and 2-2 in Grand Slam finals played. That is an even and balanced head to head. It's not rocket science to grasp that simple fact, is it?
Oh so you DO accept that Murray is a shadow of his former self? You DO accept that he was once a top player? I had the impression you were completely dismissing Murray's past achievements. Of course, he is a shadow of his former self otherwise he wouldn't have slipped to #11 in the rankings and only won 1 (small)title this season so far. But he is fighting to regain his form and former status. He is clearly not there yet but he has begun to make progress. He has made at least the quarter-finals of all 4 Slams this year for starters. Of which other players not named Djokovic can this be said? Would you class that as sitting around on his arse, twiddling his thumbs and doing nothing?
ALL players have some luck to help them get to where they are but, I repeat, I am now gratified to hear you finally acknowledge that Murray was a great player when he was ranked #2 something I was not at all sure you understood in some of your earlier dismissive comments.
Murray is very good at downplaying his physical problems but it is a notable fact that he has struggled to regain his former level of fitness and confidence on court neither of which are yet back to pre-surgery levels.
I have never tried to argue that Murray is currently better than Djokovic either now or in the past. I simply argued that that their personal H2H in tour finals is remarkably even and their matches, when both are playing to form, usually very close and very tight affairs.
Well what would you expect him to do? What strategy would you currently advise him to pursue in order to improve his ranking and his chances of qualifying for the year-end finals? How about playing as many tournaments as possible and gaining some ranking points? Whether or not you think it smacks of desperation, it is the only sound and logical strategy to pursue!
All players have their particular foibles and mannerisms on court. Murray likes to talk to himself and berate himself. Sometimes he does take this a bit too far but he is vastly improved from his early years. He still wins the majority of his matches and his mannerisms have not stopped him from winning multiple Slams and multiple other titles, have they? How many other players out there not named Djokovic, Federer or Nadal can say the same? You might have a point that if he had exuded a bit more positive body language on court over the years he may have won even more but that does not detract from what he has already achieved and has not acted as any bar to him joining the elite group of players at the top of the game. You could just as well argue that if Nadal had not spent so much time picking his shorts and arranging his hair, he could have won even more Slams than he has already done!
Of course I do. Why don't you? I repeat, name me any other player apart from the Big 3 who has achieved as much as he has? Now, if only all these other players had a bit more of Murray's discipline and focus. Just think what THEY might have been able to achieve!
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Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
I saw the whole match because I was curious about what happened. I recorded it and was gone when it happened, then I made the mistake of checking messages here and someone said Nadal lost.
I was expecting lots of slices, problems with 2HBH, but that really was not the story. Klizan would have beaten most of the top players in the world with the game he brought today. His lefty FH was absolutely wicked.
But Nadal at anywhere near his best would not have lost in three sets after winning the first set in a tie-breaker and then being ahead in the 2nd set. The UEs and low percentage on 2nd serves won pretty much told the story.
