2014 China Open ATP Singles Main Draw

[tipsa...don'tlikehim!]

The final of the day is Benneteau/Pospisil (to get the title against Rojer/Tecau)

 

[JJGUY]

I know it's H&M, but seriously you need HD camera in closeup to know it's a tshirt, not the 5pk/$10 Fruit of the Loom you can pick up at Wal-Mart, or maybe they bought it at Wal-Mart and stapled the H&M logo.

H&M.

10outfits

 

[Djokovic2011]

Lol, I was wondering why the ATP website hadn't updated Novak's amount of top 10 wins to 119 after he beat Murray today, then I just realised that Murray isn't in the top 10 at the moment. That will take me some time to get used to!

 

[Nostradamus]

I told you Cilic is a Dud, he is no good. we found this out this week. he just got lucky at US open

 

[Gary Duane]

You're selling him short. Klizan has proven in the past that he has game and will surely do so again in the future.

Unfortunately he had problems with his ankle today. Got an MTO after very early in the first set of the match and I actually thought he was going to forfeit.
He deserves credits for playing on at least, though there were no doubts whatsoever that he wouldn't be able to deal with Berdych today. Unfortunately.

Well, you can't blame me for wishing for someone who would make it a real contest. Now, if Birdman beats Joker, or even pushes him to three hard sets, I'll have to eat my words later!

 

[Gary Duane]

Lol, I was wondering why the ATP website hadn't updated Novak's amount of top 10 wins to 119 after he beat Murray today, then I just realised that Murray isn't in the top 10 at the moment. That will take me some time to get used to!

That doesn't seem right, does it? I'm having a hard time getting uses to Murray not being around number 4...

 

[Gary Duane]

the solution is to have the umpire buzz or announce when it's "time" starting the countdown. after a long rally he'll announce it after a few more seconds.

That could be very unfair. What if the ump gives 10 seconds to one player but only 5 to the other after equally difficult and long points?

Players used to argue against the machine that calls lets, but now everyone accepts it. Some people did not like the challenge system. I don't think anyone wants to go back to horrible calls that can't be challenged.

Older players will fight anything new.

My solution - which of course is never going to happen - would be to start with a baseline of 20 seconds, then add a second for each three strokes played. 30 stroke rally, add 10 seconds. 21, add 7 seconds.

That is VERY close to what actually happens. After a 30 stroke rally the players go to about 35 seconds, and the umps leave that alone, as they should.

Or delay the start of a shot clock according to the length of the last rally. 7 second delay for a 21 shot rally. That's even better, because the start of the clock and always going to the same limit helps a rhythm.

Then when some jerk yells out, add time to the clock.

 

[britam25]

I'm not talking about their respective overall achievements which clearly favour Djokovic but their personal head to head. In this, Murray is 5-4 v Djokovic in all finals played and 2-2 in Grand Slam finals played. That is an even and balanced head to head. It's not rocket science to grasp that simple fact, is it?



Oh so you DO accept that Murray is a shadow of his former self? You DO accept that he was once a top player? I had the impression you were completely dismissing Murray's past achievements. Of course, he is a shadow of his former self otherwise he wouldn't have slipped to #11 in the rankings and only won 1 (small)title this season so far. But he is fighting to regain his form and former status. He is clearly not there yet but he has begun to make progress. He has made at least the quarter-finals of all 4 Slams this year for starters. Of which other players not named Djokovic can this be said? Would you class that as sitting around on his arse, twiddling his thumbs and doing nothing?



ALL players have some luck to help them get to where they are but, I repeat, I am now gratified to hear you finally acknowledge that Murray was a great player when he was ranked #2 something I was not at all sure you understood in some of your earlier dismissive comments.



Murray is very good at downplaying his physical problems but it is a notable fact that he has struggled to regain his former level of fitness and confidence on court neither of which are yet back to pre-surgery levels.



I have never tried to argue that Murray is currently better than Djokovic either now or in the past. I simply argued that that their personal H2H in tour finals is remarkably even and their matches, when both are playing to form, usually very close and very tight affairs.



Well what would you expect him to do? What strategy would you currently advise him to pursue in order to improve his ranking and his chances of qualifying for the year-end finals? How about playing as many tournaments as possible and gaining some ranking points? Whether or not you think it smacks of desperation, it is the only sound and logical strategy to pursue!



All players have their particular foibles and mannerisms on court. Murray likes to talk to himself and berate himself. Sometimes he does take this a bit too far but he is vastly improved from his early years. He still wins the majority of his matches and his mannerisms have not stopped him from winning multiple Slams and multiple other titles, have they? How many other players out there not named Djokovic, Federer or Nadal can say the same? You might have a point that if he had exuded a bit more positive body language on court over the years he may have won even more but that does not detract from what he has already achieved and has not acted as any bar to him joining the elite group of players at the top of the game. You could just as well argue that if Nadal had not spent so much time picking his shorts and arranging his hair, he could have won even more Slams than he has already done!



Of course I do. Why don't you? I repeat, name me any other player apart from the Big 3 who has achieved as much as he has? Now, if only all these other players had a bit more of Murray's discipline and focus. Just think what THEY might have been able to achieve!

"Murray is very good at downplaying his physical problems..."

That's a joke, right?

 

[Gary Duane]

But did either Djokovic or Murray get a time violation? What about this supposed clampdown the commies were talking about in Rafa's game where every time violation was going to be called? They're sure not clamping down in Tokyo which, last I heard, was also an ATP tournament.

I keep saying it. They need a clock. It should not be at the umps discretion.

That said, Rafa's OCD thing is costing him an average of 3-5 seconds, and it is getting worse. If you go back to 2006 almost none of that was there, and he was playing almost as fast as Fed in Wimbledon 2006.

Klizan wasn't exactly a Speedy Gonzales during their match but he never got called once. Murray and Djoke didn't get called in this match either.

There weren't over the time quite as much as Rafa. I was checking, because I honestly did not know. Joker was OK except after very long points. Again, I checked. But Murray was over for sure, more often.

The thing is, we don't have facts, and I don't think the umps have it right either, because you can't watch a stopwatch every point and do everything else right. You have to start it at EXACTLY the time the last point ends.

Try it sometime. You may be surprised. I can't do it more than a game or so, because it takes all the fun out of watching.

Rafa is a big part of why tennis is so popular now around the world and yet the ATP - or at least some people in the ATP - seem to be intent on dragging him and his game down. He's frustrated over the situation and it's being reflected in his play. The ATP is shooting itself in the foot.

I agree with you, but maybe in a slightly different way. Every player I've heard commenting says something like, "Why NOW? Do they have to do it NOW?"

When the ump called Rafa on 2nd set point, I was disgusted. That's like calling people on few seconds during tie-breakers.

That's why I want a clock.

 

[Gary Duane]

With the match being played indoors I wouldn't be too concerned. Of course he will decline and his HC game this year has been less than spectacular, but I highly doubt you would see Nadal drop the kind of lead he had in an outdoor match at a major if that's what you're worried about. And not to a player of Klizan's caliber.

The whole "indoor" think may have to do with the lighting there. Some people seem to thrive indoors, but decades ago Borg hated playing at night in the USO. I don't understand why any player likes heat, but Nadal also seems to thrive in hot weather.

Unfortunately, it just feeds into the myth that this healthy, motivated Nadal is unbeatable, and trust me, you stick around and you'll find plenty of people that actually believe that. It's just so tiresome at this point for people like me that have been here long enough and plus, seen it in other places.

So far a healthy, motivated Nadal has meant another FO title. My view is that his strokes and strategy make him perfect on clay, not so perfect on other surfaces because he tends to play too far back. He needs confidence to move up, which he had in 2013 during the HC season, for example.

And you know what the worst part of all this is, we'll get all the healthy, motivated stuff next year too because there is an extra week between Halle and Wimbledon starting next year. You just wait and see if I'm not right come around Wimbledon time in 2015.

He'll be 29. I think if he builds up steam on HCs in 2015 and then has some good wins on clay then he has a chance for one last amazing year. But I honestly think 2015 is it. If he can even do it. After that at best he will be like 30-something Fed, still maybe impressive, but not the same Nadal as we have seen.

 

[SoBad]

Nothing strange about that at all. Gasquet has plummeted down the rankings and Troicki has been playing for a while already.

Both phenomena you describe are rather bizarre, as already stated. The only question here is what is more befuddling – Gasquet plummeting in the rankings or the Serbian journeyman Troicki being permitted to play “for a while” after being banned from competition for illegal PED use. Used to be the case that you needed a couple of AO titles under the belt to skate.

 

[vernonbc]

I keep saying it. They need a clock. It should not be at the umps discretion.

A clock will still be started or stopped or paused at the umps discretion. In your previous post you just talked about the ump adding seconds depending on the number of strokes in the previous rally!

That said, Rafa's OCD thing is costing him an average of 3-5 seconds, and it is getting worse. If you go back to 2006 almost none of that was there, and he was playing almost as fast as Fed in Wimbledon 2006.

Rafa does NOT have OCD. If he had it, he would have it off the court too and he definitely doesn't. OCD isn't something that you can turn on and off depending on your location. Yes he has tics and habits that are getting worse and I think it would definitely help his game if he could reduce them. I personally think a sports psychologist could possibly help him in this area or maybe hypnosis or something.

cont'd...

 

[vernonbc]

There weren't over the time quite as much as Rafa. I was checking, because I honestly did not know. Joker was OK except after very long points. Again, I checked. But Murray was over for sure, more often.

But the crux of the argument is they were both over and were not called. Other players are often over and aren't called. Rafa was and it is unfair how he is being targeted. I agree with a lot of people on other boards who are saying if they're supposedly clamping down, then call it, right on the dot, against everyone and against receivers too. Yes Rafa may still get a bunch of violations, he may get 30 in a match, but if they called it against EVERYONE it might open up people's eyes to how ridiculous and inane and unfair the Rafa Rule is.

And call it for EVERYTHING that delays the game - racquet smashing, temper tantrums, umpire arguments, inspecting a ball spot - call it on everything. Federer fans would go nuts if he got called a few times. Can you imagine the Dj

 

[vernonbc]

Another thing that tennis needs to be very cognizant of is the integrity of the game and whether umpires are affecting the outcome of a match with their calls. It could be argued that a couple of their calls this week did have an effect and that's a whole big can of worms they might not wish to open. The players are under a microscope concerning their behaviour and actions on the court and the umpires should be too.

 

[Gary Duane]

A clock will still be started or stopped or paused at the umps discretion. In your previous post you just talked about the ump adding seconds depending on the number of strokes in the previous rally!

No. I was thinking of it being automated. Right now statistics tell how many shots were in each rally. Think if the tally of shots were automatically included in the next resetting of the clock. Not by the ump. By a system. Can it be done? I don't know. But if it could be, I think it would be a good idea.

My thought was to take the decision out of the ump's hands, because the rules are not consistently and fairly applied.

Rafa does NOT have OCD. If he had it, he would have it off the court too and he definitely doesn't. OCD isn't something that you can turn on and off depending on your location.

You may be right. I need a different word though. It's pretty obvious that his need to do all the touching is compulsive. I do not believe he can stop it. These things don't look like tics either. They seem to be 100% linked to tennis and only tennis. Did you notice that they almost disappeared at the 2014 AO, when he was injured and lost his focus?

I'm saying that he doesn't feel he can win without them, but he also can't control them. I don't know more than that.

Yes he has tics and habits that are getting worse and I think it would definitely help his game if he could reduce them. I personally think a sports psychologist could possibly help him in this area or maybe hypnosis or something.

Last year I would say it did not matter. 2013 was a near miracle year.

But I do think it has gotten worse this year, and now it is losing him points. Ultimately it may lose him a match. And I don't want to see that happen.

I'll say one more thing. Someday he will have Uncle Toni out of his life, and I think then he may be a much happier person.

 

[Gary Duane]

But the crux of the argument is they were both over and were not called. Other players are often over and aren't called. Rafa was and it is unfair how he is being targeted.

I'm not arguing that. Rafa is a target. What I hear is that the he is over the limit the most. I have not had a stopwatch out to time every player, but I do know that Rafa is way on the slow side, and Fed is one of the fastest players. You will have a hard time catching him going over the limit.

I agree with a lot of people on other boards who are saying if they're supposedly clamping down, then call it, right on the dot, against everyone and against receivers too.

I'm saying the same thing, but I'm also saying it can't be done unless every point is timed, and they don't do that.

Yes Rafa may still get a bunch of violations, he may get 30 in a match, but if they called it against EVERYONE it might open up people's eyes to how ridiculous and inane and unfair the Rafa Rule is.

I'm simply saying to apply the rules, then let it sort itself out. They aren't doing that, are they?

And call it for EVERYTHING that delays the game - racquet smashing, temper tantrums, umpire arguments, inspecting a ball spot - call it on everything.
Federer fans would go nuts if he got called a few times.

I don't think you finished, but mostly I agree with you. That said, imagine what would have happened if McEnroe had been stopped from arguing with umps.

The inspecting of ball spots should fall under the same rule. "Delay of game".

I don't care about racket smashing as long as no one's health is threatened. But I think players who never do it should get more respect. For instance, normally Nadal and Nishikori are two of the most polite people in tennis. I think that should get more credit. I'd like to see people who have major temper tantrums thrown out of matches. But I don't think it will happen.

 

[Gary Duane]

Another thing that tennis needs to be very cognizant of is the integrity of the game and whether umpires are affecting the outcome of a match with their calls. It could be argued that a couple of their calls this week did have an effect and that's a whole big can of worms they might not wish to open. The players are under a microscope concerning their behaviour and actions on the court and the umpires should be too.

THAT I agree with. You and I would probably agree about the worst calls too.

 

[vernonbc]

No. I was thinking of it being automated. Right now statistics tell how many shots were in each rally. Think if the tally of shots were automatically included in the next resetting of the clock. Not by the ump. By a system. Can it be done? I don't know. But if it could be, I think it would be a good idea.

My thought was to take the decision out of the ump's hands, because the rules are not consistently and fairly applied.

Rafa has suggested the same thing (facetiously). Let Hawkeye call the lines and let a clock call the time. Let the crowd check the scoreboards themselves. He's not in favour of a clock but he's also very frustrated with the umpires blindly following dumb rules and not using their discretion.

I'll say one more thing. Someday he will have Uncle Toni out of his life, and I think then he may be a much happier person.

You don't know Rafa very well (and I don't expect you to keep up with all the Spanish media like I do through various sources) but Toni will never, ever, ever, ever be out of his life. Toni is family and in Mallorca, on the island, family is everything. They are together all the time, not just on the practice court but in down time. In the pictures of Rafa on his boat in the summer with his girlfriend and other friends, as often as not Toni is there with his family as are his Uncle Miguel Angel and Uncle Rafael and his Aunt Marilen and all their kids. They all golf together, have dinners together, up to several years ago they all lived together in their own family apartment block (in different suites) and now have homes on the coast within walking distance of each other. The family is large and very very very close.

And Rafa IS a very happy person. Has been since he was a kid and still is to this day. Loves his family, loves his band of close childhood friends, loves what he does for a living, has a number of big projects on the go that he's excited about in preparation for his retirement. His manager and friend since he was 14, Carlos Costa, was asked a bit ago to briefly describe Rafa and he said "just a happy guy".

 

[vernonbc]

I'm not arguing that. Rafa is a target. What I hear is that the he is over the limit the most. I have not had a stopwatch out to time every player, but I do know that Rafa is way on the slow side, and Fed is one of the fastest players. You will have a hard time catching him going over the limit.

I know Fed fans (which includes most of the media) like to think he's perfect, but he's not. He doesn't always stay within the limit. In his match against Rafa at the AO, they were of course trying to damn Rafa by putting up a screen graphic showing his average time between points was 27 seconds but the thing is, Fed's was 23 which is over the limit too. An automated system would have caught him in its net too. And Fed has had his share of temper tantrums, he's smashed racquets, he's argued with the umpires - he's delayed the game plenty of times but has the sanctimony to preach about other peoples failings. :roll:

I'm saying the

 

[vernonbc]

That said, imagine what would have happened if McEnroe had been stopped from arguing with umps.

He and Connors and their cronies is the reason the rule was instituted in the first place to stop them from delaying the matches for five or ten minutes. I don't think TPTB imagined how their rule would be so ridiculously interpreted these days.

I don't care about racket smashing as long as no one's health is threatened. But I think players who never do it should get more respect. For instance, normally Nadal and Nishikori are two of the most polite people in tennis. I think that should get more credit. I'd like to see people who have major temper tantrums thrown out of matches. But I don't think it will happen.

Racquet smashing delays the game far longer than two or three seconds of tics and habits. If one is going to be penalized the other should be too.

 

[vernonbc]

This computer is driving me crazy. :evil: Here is what got cut off in my second last post.

I'm saying the same thing, but I'm also saying it can't be done unless every point is timed, and they don't do that.

I'm simply saying to apply the rules, then let it sort itself out. They aren't doing that, are they?

No they're not but if they did, there would be many many many other players caught and everybody would be in an outrage, not just Rafa fans.

I don't think you finished, but mostly I agree with you.

Friggin' computer is acting up on me. I don't remember everything I said but I did say 'Can you imagine the Djokovic fans on this board? Chico would have a heart attack!'

 

[cc0509]

Such a shame but very happy it looks like his fall season is gonna be great again. He needs it to consolidate his #1.
(ETA: Cilic winning the USO felt so weird. Novak would never have lost to him. Oh well.)

The same Novak who was defeated quite handily at the USO by Kei Nishikori, the player pummelled by Cilic in the USO final you mean?

 

[Djokovic2011]

The same Novak who was defeated quite handily at the USO by Kei Nishikori, the player pummelled by Cilic in the USO final you mean?

You know it doesn't always work like that cc0. All 'bout dat match-up.

 

[Russeljones]

You know it doesn't always work like that cc0. All 'bout dat match-up.

I don't think Cilic was getting beaten by anyone. He was a man on a mission.

 

[TheMusicLover]

I don't think Cilic was getting beaten by anyone. He was a man on a mission.

Most definitely. Anyone who states anything different obviously didn't watch his QF, SF and F match.

 

[Chico]

I told you Cilic is a Dud, he is no good. we found this out this week. he just got lucky at US open

Someone with common sense, finally.

 

[Chico]

LOL at Fedal fanboys still hyping Cilic and saying he is better player and would have beaten Novak at US Open.

Novak would have destroyed him in the US Open final.

Cilic has no chance of ever beating Novak.

 

[newpball]

Cilic has no chance of ever beating Novak.

Hmm, quite a brash statement!

I figure that anyone who has the guts to put a way past his prime old champion in his place should definitely be taken seriously!

:grin:

 

[cc0509]

LOL at Fedal fanboys still hyping Cilic and saying he is better player and would have beaten Novak at US Open.

Novak would have destroyed him in the US Open final.

Cilic has no chance of ever beating Novak.

Please! Novak seems to shine most at these Masters 1000 or 500 level events rather than the slams. The way you talk it is like Novak has won two or three slams a year for the past few years. That is NOT the case and his record at the USO has not been great considering his hc pedigree.

To say Cilic has no chance of ever beating Novak is stupid. I think Novak is a tough match-up for Cilic but if Cilic can somehow play the way he did at the USO and Novak has an off day, it is possible Cilic could beat Novak. We will have to see if Cilic can deal with the pressure after winning a slam. Many players can't.

 

[beast of mallorca]

Please! Novak seems to shine most at these Masters 1000 or 500 level events rather than the slams. The way you talk it is like Novak has won two or three slams a year for the past few years. That is NOT the case and his record at the USO has not been great considering his hc pedigree.

To say Cilic has no chance of ever beating Novak is stupid. I think Novak is a tough match-up for Cilic but if Cilic can somehow play the way he did at the USO and Novak has an off day, it is possible Cilic could beat Novak. We will have to see if Cilic can deal with the pressure after winning a slam. Many players can't.

Stop harassing Chico. He's entitled to his own stupid opinion, ok........:twisted: