2015 Rogers Cup F: [1] Novak Djokovic vs. [2] Andy Murray

Canadian Open Champ?

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Commiserations to the Djokovic fans, your man went down fighting like a champion. He will be back winning again pretty soon.

So glad Murray has finally got another win against the person who has stopped him from winning some big tournaments this last year.

Masters number 11 as well :)
 
mattosgrant said:
Great win for Murray today! Finally breaks his long losing streak to Djokovic, and it is his first win over either Djokovic or Fed for awhile. 2 Masters for the year now, one on clay and one on hards. Doesn't Fed now have to win Cincinnati to get the #2 seeding at the U.S Open? Murray will probably be 2nd seed at the Open.
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Yup. Fed has to win Cincinnati. Could turn out a week on Saturday, if the two meet in the SF, that would be a showdown for it.
 
The_18th_Slam said:
Yes. Because, then, he'd have more energy to spare, and wouldn't have given Murray the belief. We know Djokovic will probably go all-out for Cincinnati (because he hasn't won it yet). Now, can you reason like an intelligent adult, or will you keep repeating the few words the entirety of your vocabulary seems to consist of?
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Where did this idea that top pro athletes get tired and it takes weeks to recover come from?

I don't know if Nole is going to win Cincy or the USO. But this is his 10th consecutive tier 1 final and he's won eight of them. He is not running out of gas.
 
marc45 said:
don't get it...my cable company won't pick it up

Isner on ESPN3...

"We would have been on ESPN3, which nobody knows or watches. I don't know how many people watch ESPN3; I mean, I know I don't."
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What do you mean by this? You get ESPN, but your service provider isn't recognized by WatchESPN? That's crazy
 
eliars said:
Loved this match.

Apropos a recent thread, there is no doubt who has the best 2nd serve between him and Nadal at the moment. Murray's second serve today was outstanding (paying off working with Bjorkman?). Coming to the net much more showing the great hands he's got. Saving 9 or 10 BP's in the third. Unfairly getting a warning in that short of 20 mins game and still managing to keep his composure and hold his nerve, getting through that all important game. This was a monumental win for him.

Djokovic really fought here and also played decent; maybe not extraordinary, but still played well. He's so rock solid. Murray took the match to him.

Great prospects moving forward, especially with USO in sight.

\M/oirai \M/uzziah
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Murray should be beat over the head for not playing this aggressive all the time. The guy has all the tools to be an offensive all-court player but too often fails to put them to good use and falls into his cat and mouse from the baseline routine.
 
GabeT said:
Where did this idea that top pro athletes get tired and it takes weeks to recover come from?
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He'd have 1 week to recover from Canada and Cincinnati until the USO starts. Not weeks.

I don't know if Nole is going to win Cincy or the USO. But this is his 10th consecutive tier 1 final and he's won eight of them. He is not running out of gas.
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It's precisely because he's been in so many finals that he might be running out of gas. Remember what happened post-USO in 2011? And Djokovic was 24 then. Not 28.
 
tacou said:
What do you mean by this? You get ESPN, but your service provider isn't recognized by WatchESPN? That's crazy
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yep....been thinking of going to Direct, but my cable company did at least get Tennis Channel back after years away...that was all those court battles with Tennis Channel and cable tv, which made it to Supreme Court I think...or maybe Federal Court
 
The_18th_Slam said:
He'd have 1 week to recover from Canada and Cincinnati until the USO starts. Not weeks.

It's precisely because he's been in so many finals that he might be running out of gas. Remember what happened post-USO in 2011? And Djokovic was 24 then. Not 28.
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But having one week only between Cincy and the USO is true for all other players. And Murray, maybe his biggest challenge today, also reached the Canada finals.

I just don't see how reaching a final is bad for him. If he's tired for Cincy, which would be true for Murray as well, so be it. He can play a few matches and then be ready for the USO.
 
zagor said:
Murray should be beat over the head for not playing this aggressive all the time. The guy has all the tools to be an offensive all-court player but too often fails to put them to good use and falls into his cat and mouse from the baseline routine.
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I think Murray tried the aggressive approach vs. Djokovic in a lot of matches last year with no success. It wasn't as much all court tennis though, but was more about him injecting pace more often than not (a bit ala how Nadal played Djokovic in 2013 Montreal and USO). He'd often end making too many unforced errors doing so and didn't prove to be a winning strategy. I think Murray's lack of fitness or Djokovic' superior fitness, knowing that he couldn't hang with Djokovic over a 2-3 hour match with long rallies, also played a part in that strategy.

This year he toned down the aggressiveness and went for a more balanced approach, which I think in essence was better than 2014, but obviously something still lacking (not much though, see: RG and AO/Miami before the implosions). In a game of margins the more risky second serve, the net approaches and aggressive mindset, in certain stages of the match (i.e. the break in the second game of the third set) really paid dividends. I also thought Murray's first serve slider looked great today. Small things, but really important tweaks in order to finally get over the hurdle that is Djokovic.
 
Great win from Murray. These type of conditions give him the best chance against Djokovic. Points are shorter when hot. Murray able to hit through Djokovic easier. Night conditions always end up with endless points. Djokovic will eventually win out if too many long points.
 
The_18th_Slam said:
He'd have 1 week to recover from Canada and Cincinnati until the USO starts. Not weeks.

It's precisely because he's been in so many finals that he might be running out of gas. Remember what happened post-USO in 2011? And Djokovic was 24 then. Not 28.
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it was much more mentally taxing for him in 2011, partly because of the competition, but mainly because of the streak and him getting to no. 1 for the first time with all the added attention, obligations and pressure that entails.

I would be extremely surprised if Djoko has a 2011 kind of end to the season.

As for your debate, of course it's bad to lose to Murray because it gives him belief, but if he isn't injured, there's nothing bad about Djoko playing 10 matches in Montreal-Cinci.
The guy is a monster in deciding sets and he won't lose the US Open due to being physically overmatched.
 
Good job Murray. Finally. You knew it was coming. You could see it from the FO match how close Murray was to beating Novak on Murray's worst surface. As much as I am a Federer fan there is no question in my mind that if Murray made the Wimbledon final instead of Federer, it would have been a much bigger challenge for Novak.
 
zagor said:
Yes, a guy with 6 HC slams is not an all-time tennis great on HC.

You're absolutely clueless about the game.
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Facts are stubborn things... With Murray and Nishikori around another US Open for Nole would be a great accomplishment.
 
GabeT said:
But having one week only between Cincy and the USO is true for all other players.
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Not all players will be playing 5 matches apiece at Canada and Cincinnati as Djokovic is likely to.

And Murray, maybe his biggest challenge today, also reached the Canada finals.
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And he has a Masters title and a win over Djokovic to take confidence and positives from.

I just don't see how reaching a final is bad for him. If he's tired for Cincy, which would be true for Murray as well, so be it. He can play a few matches and then be ready for the USO.
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Making a final and losing to who will likely be his main obstacle is what I think is bad for him. Murray has the luxury to tank Cincinnati if he feels tired. It's not especially significant for him. Djokovic might go all-out. It's the one Masters title he's missing, so I don't see him tanking it.
 
Chanwan said:
it was much more mentally taxing for him in 2011, partly because of the competition, but mainly because of the streak and him getting to no. 1 for the first time with all the added attention, obligations and pressure that entails.

I would be extremely surprised if Djoko has a 2011 kind of end to the season.

As for your debate, of course it's bad to lose to Murray because it gives him belief, but if he isn't injured, there's nothing bad about Djoko playing 10 matches in Montreal-Cinci.
The guy is a monster in deciding sets and he won't lose the US Open due to being physically overmatched.
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Well, he is 28. I genuinely think he'd have been better off losing to Gulbis. And so did he, probably, because it seemed obvious to me that he was tanking.
 
Chanwan said:
it was much more mentally taxing for him in 2011, partly because of the competition, but mainly because of the streak and him getting to no. 1 for the first time with all the added attention, obligations and pressure that entails.

I would be extremely surprised if Djoko has a 2011 kind of end to the season.

As for your debate, of course it's bad to lose to Murray because it gives him belief, but if he isn't injured, there's nothing bad about Djoko playing 10 matches in Montreal-Cinci.
The guy is a monster in deciding sets and he won't lose the US Open due to being physically overmatched.
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I suspect T18S is panicking a little that Djokovic's 2015 could end up surpassing Federer's 2006. There's certainly an undercurrent of anxiety in his posts.
 
The_18th_Slam said:
Well, he is 28. I genuinely think he'd have been better off losing to Gulbis. And so did he, probably, because it seemed obvious to me that he was tanking.
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Didn't watch the Gulbis match, but saving 2 MP's doesn't sound like tanking to me?
I just see very little indication, if any at all, that Novak is losing a step/getting tired physically. He's a beast.
Djokovic2011 said:
I suspect T18S is panicking a little that Djokovic's 2015 could end up surpassing Federer's 2006. There's certainly an undercurrent of anxiety in his posts.
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haven't monitored his posts enough to have an opinion on this, but I trust it you have - that's what you do, right? ;)
 
zagor said:
I think Fed has to win and Murray has to lose in QF or worse (not sure though). I'll root for Fed to win Cincy but for me Murray deserves to be #2 seed at USO, he's been better than Fed overall this year.
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Fed will have 8465 points tomorrow. Murray will have 8660, a difference of 195 points.

Murray lost in the QF of Cincy last year, which means that the maximum that he can lose is 180 points (if he skips it all together), but that's less than 195. Therefore, if my calculations are right, it appears that Mr. Murray will be seeded #2 at the USO regardless of the outcome of Cincy. I hope I'm wrong though...
 
Chanwan said:
Didn't watch the Gulbis match, but saving 2 MP's doesn't sound like tanking to me?
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He didn't win either of those match points. Gulbis lost them. Djokovic was basically fooling around and keeping the ball in play. He was grinning when he was losing important points, and there wasn't a hint of a grimace in those grins. He didn't care about the match.

I just see very little indication, if any at all, that Novak is losing a step/getting tired physically. He's a beast.
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Nobody is immune to fatigue. Well, at least not in the biological passport era.

haven't monitored his posts enough to have an opinion on this, but I trust it you have - that's what you do, right? ;)
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What else could one expect from someone as paranoid as Djokovic2011? :p
 
Following the great TTW tradition of knee-jerking to the chin, I would say this match is beginning of #Novaks decline. His numerous injuries are taking a toll on his game; Wrist, ankle, back, leg, forearm, right butt cheek. It's beginning to be too much for him.
 
The_18th_Slam said:
He didn't win either of those match points. Gulbis lost them. Djokovic was basically fooling around and keeping the ball in play. He was grinning when he was losing important points, and there wasn't a hint of a grimace in those grins. He didn't care about the match.

Nobody is immune to fatigue. Well, at least not in the biological passport era.

What else could one expect from someone as paranoid as Djokovic2011? :p
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Again, without watching, when you're down MP and want to tank, it should be fairly easy to do so. Djoko has a way of grimacing and grinning when he's down - as if he doesn't believe how bad he's playing/that he's actually losing. Nothing extraordinary there (again, without watching though).

When was the last time Djoko appeared to be the more fatigued player? I seriously don't recall that.

Who can blame @Djokovic2011 for acting as the Djoko police? If he doesn't do it, who would? And how would this forum survive that? :D:eek:
 
zagor said:
I think Fed has to win and Murray has to lose in QF or worse (not sure though). I'll root for Fed to win Cincy but for me Murray deserves to be #2 seed at USO, he's been better than Fed overall this year.
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Well, the current rankings are:

Murray - 8490
Federer - 8075

So that's a 415 point difference Federer needs to make up. So either:

1) Federer wins the tournament and Murray loses (pretty much in any round as they're in the same half. Federer winning the tournament means that he has to go through Murray in the SF or whoever got out of Murray's section as the victor)
2) Federer reaches the final and Murray reaches the QF at most (in this case Fed would be 5 points ahead of Murray in the rankings right before the US Open, lawl)

If Fed loses before the final - he's the no 3 seed for the US Open.

I've got a feeling that Federer will lose to Nadal in the QF while a spent Murray will lose to Chardy.
 
Rebel-I.N.S said:
Equalling Sampras in any tennis record is quite special.
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Sampras never cared about the MS but it was his problem, really. Still there's a reason why Sampras won 14 Slams and 5 WTF's compared to only 11 MS (well given that there are 4 Slams a year, 1 WTF and 9 MS)
 
The_18th_Slam said:
Not all players will be playing 5 matches apiece at Canada and Cincinnati as Djokovic is likely to.

And he has a Masters title and a win over Djokovic to take confidence and positives from.

Making a final and losing to who will likely be his main obstacle is what I think is bad for him. Murray has the luxury to tank Cincinnati if he feels tired. It's not especially significant for him. Djokovic might go all-out. It's the one Masters title he's missing, so I don't see him tanking it.
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I don't see any of the top players tanking. Wasn't Nole supposed to tank his match with Gulbis? And he saved, what, seven MPs?
 
marc45 said:
yep....been thinking of going to Direct, but my cable company did at least get Tennis Channel back after years away...that was all those court battles with Tennis Channel and cable tv, which made it to Supreme Court I think...or maybe Federal Court
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Thought you were joking, but maybe not. Get your email and password that your tv provider forces on you. Use these to log on to ESPN3. In Ohio myself, and if you get internet through AT&T they give you ESPN3 access, no cable contract necessary. Another option it to just have internet and get Sling TV for $20 a month for minimal cable. That gets you ESPN access which has pretty much taken over this year in the US for Tennis.

If you are really into the wonders of internet Tennis, Kodi media server gets with a channel add-on called Sports Devil gets you all the internet tennis feeds served up on a platter with no danger. (1. Download and install Kodi 2. youtube Husham Kodi Wizard) I am running all this on a jail broken ipad2 which is just awesome as a personal/portable TV. The Sports devil is great for picking up events outside of ESPN3 including Challenger events. Tennis channel has a very nice service, but it is incomplete without having the Tennis Channel. I've not done it, but Kodi can be put on a $35 firestick which sets in your TV hdmi. The Kodi stuff is all hacker kind of stuff, so anyone trying needs to be ready for some frustration.
 
The_18th_Slam said:
Well, he is 28. I genuinely think he'd have been better off losing to Gulbis. And so did he, probably, because it seemed obvious to me that he was tanking.
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I thought he was pretty much tanking against Gulbis too. I actually put some $$ down on Gulbis as Nole looked pretty dam disinterested. Novak didn't play great this week so it will be interesting to see if he tries to save energy next week or go for the title. It will be interesting to see how Murray plays it as well.
 
AngieB said:
I hope #Novak's back feels better approaching the US Open. I heard his ankle hurts too. He grabbed at it during the match, with his sore wrist.
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Been awhile since you've posted about Novak, not much since he won Wimbledon! Ohhh right he lost today, convenient you've showed up :D You should be happy though, by losing today he made sure he's not majoring in minors :D
 
Murray should be beat over the head for not playing this aggressive all the time.
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+10. Usually the Muzz-Nole matches are ZZZZ-ville. But this final was enjoyable. I predicted an easy Djoker victory, but Muzz held his nerve and came through, all credit to him. And props to Nole for hanging in there until the very last point. Most guys would haved folded after the break in the third. I never believed Andy would actually win until the last point, which is a tribute to Nole's focus/intensity/fight on court.

A really good final of high quality!
 
FanOfLu said:
After winning the second set Djokovic was like:
TgslzH.gif




Then in the third set Murray became this to get the crucial break :
XWsU-8.gif




This is what happened in the end:
50uIVy.gif
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You are the man :D
 
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