2015 Roland Garros Final - [1] Novak Djokovic vs. [8] Stanislas Wawrinka

[PinShot]

That's how I see it too, Bertie. Rafa and Federer have battled on tour for a decade. Novak was good enough to be a challenger during their reign, but he wasn't.

Now that Federer is aging and Nadal tired, Novak comes in and gets the spoils? I don't think so. He's been saving his body for years. I don't understand the hype. It's undeserved in my opinion. He's the beneficiary of the two warriors being at precarious times in their career. Not to mention that Andy is just now recovering from his back surgery.

They have battled before Djokovic. But that doesnt mean, Djokovic does not deserve all he achieved less than Federer ore Nadal.

Federer fore Example capitalized on the weakest Tour ever ... he built his Reputation on being the One-Eyed One in between blind Chicken ...

Nalbandian (although probably more talented than Federer), Davydenko, Ljubicic, Blake, Roddick, Hewitt, Safin, Moya, Henman, Gaudio, Coria, an aging Agassi ... besided Nadal on Clay of course .. were Federers strongest Competition.

I mean .. look at those Names ... a Djokvoic 2011+ sweeps the Floor with all of them, anytime anywhere ... an that includes Federer and probably even Nadal on Clay.

And .. btw ... calling Federer a "Warrior" must be a bad Joke ...

 

[Deleted member 307496]

They have battled before Djokovic. But that doesnt mean, Djokovic does not deserve all he achieved less than Federer ore Nadal.

Federer fore Example capitalized on the weakest Tour ever ... he built his Reputation on being the One-Eyed One in between blind Chicken ...

Nalbandian (although probably more talented than Federer), Davydenko, Ljubicic, Blake, Roddick, Hewitt, Safin, Moya, Henman, Gaudio, Coria, an aging Agassi ... besided Nadal on Clay of course .. were Federers strongest Competition.

I mean .. look at those Names ... a Djokvoic 2011+ sweeps the Floor with all of them, anytime anywhere ... an that includes Federer and probably even Nadal on Clay.

And .. btw ... calling Federer a "Warrior" must be a bad Joke ...

Weakest era ever? Did you see how weak 1996-1998 was? Rios ranked #1, players like Pioline and Martin in Grand Slam finals? Yet 2004-2007 is the "weakest era ever"?

Djokovic 2011+ would also lose to players like Roddick, Hewitt and Safin in GS finals. I mean, look at what a washed up, injured Hewitt ranked outside the top 200 did to your Djoko-man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v-mHe3OxsM

No excuses either because he just "destroyed" Roddick.

 

[JonnyMac]

They have battled before Djokovic. But that doesnt mean, Djokovic does not deserve all he achieved less than Federer ore Nadal.

Federer fore Example capitalized on the weakest Tour ever ... he built his Reputation on being the One-Eyed One in between blind Chicken ...

Nalbandian (although probably more talented than Federer), Davydenko, Ljubicic, Blake, Roddick, Hewitt, Safin, Moya, Henman, Gaudio, Coria, an aging Agassi ... besided Nadal on Clay of course .. were Federers strongest Competition.

I mean .. look at those Names ... a Djokvoic 2011+ sweeps the Floor with all of them, anytime anywhere ... an that includes Federer and probably even Nadal on Clay.

And .. btw ... calling Federer a "Warrior" must be a bad Joke ...

Feds - 'the one eyed chicken' ! Classic ! - You are gonna fit right in here my friend !

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Djokovic loses half of his GS finals anyway, you think that's going to change if he plays in a "weaker" era?

No way Djokovic touches Federer or Nadal anywhere except the AO peak for peak.

 

[PinShot]

Djokovic 2011+ would also lose to players like Roddick, Hewitt and Safin in GS finals. I mean, look at what a washed up, injured Hewitt ranked outside the top 200 did to your Djoko-man.

LoL ... good one ...

2004-2006 Hewitt, Roddick, Safnin and Federer could show up together vs Djokovic 2011+ ... and proabably still couldnt beat him ... although they would cover pretty much every inch of the court.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

LoL ... good one ...

2004-2006 Hewitt, Roddick, Safnin and Federer could show up together vs Djokovic 2011+ ... and proabably still couldnt beat him ... although they would cover pretty much every inch of the court.

How come a way, way past his prime Hewitt was beating peak Djoko until he choked then?

2005 Hewitt would beat the same Djokovic in straights on the green stuff.

 

[PinShot]

How come a way, way past his prime Hewitt was beating peak Djoko until he choked then?

2005 Hewitt would beat the same Djokovic in straights on the green stuff.

I don't know .. I mean .. I bet not even Hewitt knows how he did it ..

How did Wepner manage to floor Ali back in 1975?


I guess sometimes even a blind hen sometimes finds a grain of corn ...

 

[Deleted member 307496]

I don't know .. I mean .. I bet not even Hewitt knows how he did it ..

How did Wepner manage to floor Ali back in 1975?


I guess sometimes even a blind hen sometimes finds a grain of corn ...

It shows that in a potential meeting between the two, peak for peak, Lleyton would have way more of a chance than you're giving him.

Let alone Federer. He'd regulate Djokovic to 1 slam a year.

 

[kandamrgam]

Weakest era ever? Did you see how weak 1996-1998 was? Rios ranked #1, players like Pioline and Martin in Grand Slam finals? Yet 2004-2007 is the "weakest era ever"?

Djokovic 2011+ would also lose to players like Roddick, Hewitt and Safin in GS finals. I mean, look at what a washed up, injured Hewitt ranked outside the top 200 did to your Djoko-man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v-mHe3OxsM

No excuses either because he just "destroyed" Roddick.

It shows that in a potential meeting between the two, peak for peak, Lleyton would have way more of a chance than you're giving him.

Let alone Federer. He'd regulate Djokovic to 1 slam a year.

This TT logic is so prevalent here. Just see what 17 year old Nadal did to Hewitt at AO 2005. I can't imagine what he would do to Hewitt in 2009 form

Or here is a real one. The kind of caliber Hewitt possesses is to eat 4 bagels in 3 Slam matches against Federer in 2004. 2011+ Djoker is not eating that many to any version of Federer

 

[kandamrgam]

I don't know .. I mean .. I bet not even Hewitt knows how he did it ..

How did Wepner manage to floor Ali back in 1975?


I guess sometimes even a blind hen sometimes finds a grain of corn ...

The official chicken expert on TTW Welcome!

 

[kandamrgam]

Djokovic loses half of his GS finals anyway, you think that's going to change if he plays in a "weaker" era?

No way Djokovic touches Federer or Nadal anywhere except the AO peak for peak.

1. I think you have a point but not much. Djoker 2.0 has lost Majors to still reasonably good Federer, Nadal, Murray and redlining Wawrinka [comparable to Federer's losses to Safin and Del Potro]. I think he is definitely doing better against opponents of Federer from 2004-07 period, but not much that I can agree. For eg, replace Nadal and Federer of 2011+ with Roddick and likes Djoker is winning more.

I would say 10 Slams and 6 runner-up finishes

2. Lol, Djoker beat peak Nadal in both WC and UO in 2011.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

This TT logic is so prevalent here. Just see what 17 year old Nadal did to Hewitt at AO 2005. I can't imagine what he would do to Hewitt in 2009 form

Or here is a real one. The kind of caliber Hewitt possesses is to eat 4 bagels in 3 Slam matches against Federer in 2004. 2011+ Djoker is not eating that many to any version of Federer

The Australian Open has always been Hewitt's weakest Grand Slam (or at least it was up to that point).

For your information Nadal was 18, turning 19 and he was about to embark on his greatest season yet up to that point, ending the year at No. 2 ahead of Hewitt, who ended the year at No. 4.

Doesn't that show the level Nadal must have been showing at that point?

Hewitt dispatched Nadal relatively easily at the AO in 2004 when Nadal was 17. The same Nadal who beat Federer a couple of months later..

Nadal found it tougher to overcome Hewitt in terms of pure fighting spirit and mentality. Federer had all the shots, but if you had enough (Hewitt didn't, Nadal did) he would cave in a little and give you a chance to get back into the match.

Because Nadal is naturally a bad matchup for Federer and has immense mental strength/talent/skill he exploited this. But that is what all tennis players do and Nadal's probably done it the best.

He learned most of that from Hewitt, since he didn't even have the shots to back up his mentality. He just went out there and competed as hard as he could and would not give up - traits shown by Nadal, which I believe are adopted.

Nadal was so young and like a sponge, he took in all he could when he was a youngster and because he was so talented/gifted he adapted to his environment and took elements of all different things and incorporated it into his game.

So just like Djokovic and Federer, Nadal was a product of his time.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

1. I think you have a point but not much. Djoker 2.0 has lost Majors to still reasonably good Federer, Nadal, Murray and redlining Wawrinka [comparable to Federer's losses to Safin and Del Potro]. I think he is definitely doing better against opponents of Federer from 2004-07 period, but not much that I can agree. For eg, replace Nadal and Federer of 2011+ with Roddick and likes Djoker is winning more.

I would say 10 Slams and 6 runner-up finishes

2. Lol, Djoker beat peak Nadal in both WC and UO in 2011.

It's more in reference to Nadal on clay (even though he beat him on clay that year, but that year is an exception really. He never repeated that form) and Federer everywhere else.

 

[kandamrgam]

The Australian Open has always been Hewitt's weakest Grand Slam (or at least it was up to that point).

For your information Nadal was 18, turning 19 and he was about to embark on his greatest season yet up to that point, ending the year at No. 2 ahead of Hewitt, who ended the year at No. 4.

Doesn't that show the level Nadal must have been showing at that point?

Hewitt dispatched Nadal relatively easily at the AO in 2004 when Nadal was 17. The same Nadal who beat Federer a couple of months later..

Nadal found it tougher to overcome Hewitt in terms of pure fighting spirit and mentality. Federer had all the shots, but if you had enough (Hewitt didn't, Nadal did) he would cave in a little and give you a chance to get back into the match.

Because Nadal is naturally a bad matchup for Federer and has immense mental strength/talent/skill he exploited this. But that is what all tennis players do and Nadal's probably done it the best.

He learned most of that from Hewitt, since he didn't even have the shots to back up his mentality. He just went out there and competed as hard as he could and would not give up - traits shown by Nadal, which I believe are adopted.

Nadal was so young and like a sponge, he took in all he could when he was a youngster and because he was so talented/gifted he adapted to his environment and took elements of all different things and incorporated it into his game.

So just like Djokovic and Federer, Nadal was a product of his time.

Thanks for correcting the age.

My point was to emphasize that taking out one match like that to analyze the potential outcome of a future or past meeting has it's flaws. Sure Nadal at 18 was reasonably good, but nothing like what he was in 2009+ at AO. If that's the best Hewitt can perform at AO [which I think it was his best AO] chances are less he can do any better to win against Nadal. The problem with these kind of analyses is that because any player at the elite level can catch fire on his day how do we know that Hewitt's case is not one of those days? Consider Berrer beating Nadal this year. Nadal was playing really well while Berrer was redlining. How would it be someone says Berrer is winning Slams against Nadal in his peak? How do we know Hewitt's day against Djoker that day is not the same as what Berrer had against Nadal? I can give many many examples like that. And the scoreline doesn't indicate any struggle tbh. Djoker finished it routinely in 3 sets. I quote you:

Djokovic 2011+ would also lose to players like Roddick, Hewitt and Safin in GS finals. I mean, look at what a washed up, injured Hewitt ranked outside the top 200 did to your Djoko-man.

Reading that I find your conclusion is right, but the route you have taken to reach there is wrong. I would say to put it like this which I think is better:

Djokovic has lost in Majors to Nishikori and Wawrinka and given Safiwittoddick can catch fire similarly he could lose to them too.

Or I would look for consistent pattern. Like since Federer is almost matching Djoker even in his 30s it's fairly given Federer is beating Djoker more often than not in his prime.

 

[kandamrgam]

It's more in reference to Nadal on clay (even though he beat him on clay that year, but that year is an exception really. He never repeated that form) and Federer everywhere else.

But your original comment was misleading. Fact:

- Peak Djoker beat peak Nadal once at WC and once at UO
- Peak Djoker didnt meet peak Federer [though my hunch says odd victories here and there are possible].

Hence this is wrong to say:

No way Djokovic touches Federer or Nadal anywhere except the AO peak for peak