2015 Wimbledon Final - [1] Novak Djokovic vs. [2] Roger Federer

[marc45]

Brain Game:

"Becker scouted Federer’s impressive semi-final victory over Murray from the Royal Box on Centre Court, and saw specific areas for Djokovic to attack in the final.

“Wimbledon finals are not won in the semi-final,” Becker knowingly pointed out.

“Roger peaked in the semi-final. He could not have played better, but I have seen Andy Murray play better as well. Of course, you get carried away with the legend, Roger has won it seven times, but I felt if Novak could get hold of the return, get Roger involved in the baseline rallies, just the extra point all the time, eventually he was going to wear him down.”

my add: as Nadal said, French Open finals aren't won in the quarters

don't think this will top Becker's "fifth set" quote though

 

[MichaelNadal]

I never tire of hearing you say that Hitman!

Then you should watch Raw, live from Atlanta tomorrow

 

[Down_the_line]

I figure this is as good as place as any to say this now:

I might not be around much the next month or so. This run from when the clay season starts to when Wimbledon ends is the peak of the season for me. When no real big tournaments are playing I don't post as much. I also find slams pretty long these days. I'm actually kind of starting to prefer the tennis that gets played in the masters events even though the prestige is nowhere near as high as in slams.

That said, congrats again to Novak. See you all again for the Rogers Cup. Might drop in sporadically in between.

I hear ya. It's kind of the same for me. I'm around more from the French Open to the US Open and I do random check-ins during the rest of the year.

Enjoy your time doing other things!

 

[abmk]

Even if Djokovic, Murray and Nadal are not in the draw, it's no sure bet that Federer can win. Remember when Cilic blew him off the court at US Open last year? Plus as long as Federer is making $50 million per year, it's unlikely he'll be leaving tennis anytime soon. One thing Federer can be thankful for is that, despite his heartbreaking losses to Djokovic, it was Djokovic that basically saved Federer's Grand Slam record. Nadal would probably have surpassed Federer in the Slam count by now. Federer can be bitter but should probably buy Djokovic a beer at the same time. LOL!

you need to get a reality check:

djoko prevented nadal from winning at max : wim 11, USO 11 and AO 12

he's cost federer : AO 11, wim 14, wim 15 and arguably AO 08 and USO 11

 

[tipsa...don'tlikehim!]

 

[Fed881981]

forget it.....he blew those chances because he does not ultimately believe that he can take down peak djokovic or any version of nadal......he would have converted them and won his 8th title had it been any other player......he threw it away without a fight from 2-4 in the fourth set onwards......

Fed's body language after breaking for 4-2 and early in the third suggests so, unfortunately. You know, after breaking Novak it felt that Fed is very excited about the idea of breaking Novak, that he threw that service game away easily. It felt like a top 100 player breaking Fed's serve, not believing himself in the next few minutes and ultimately finding himself losing his next service game. The same applies to the first two service games of the third set: despite having the momentum and Djokovic looking disgusted, he gave him 2 BPs in the first service game (which he saved), then let a BP go, then lost his next service game despite being 40-15. It's the kind of thing you see from low ranked players against the very best. The lack of disbelief. Fed of the past, including 2010-2012 in my opinion, would have capitalized and let Novak chase the match.

BTW, did you guys notice that Novak mostly looked very confident and never over celebrated BPs, SPs and even the MP? It felt to me that he, deep inside, knew that his opportunities will come. Sure, he was very angry after losing the 2nd set, but that's very understandable. Besides that, Novak looked like really the top guy in the way he behaved on the court.

 

[KK Partizan]

BTW, did you guys notice that Novak mostly looked very confident and never over celebrated BPs, SPs and even the MP? It felt to me that he, deep inside, knew that his opportunity will come. Sure, he was angry after losing the 2nd set, but that's very understandable. Besides that, Novak looked like really the top guy in the way he behaved on the court.

Yup. He looked very comfortable throughout the match. Usually, if he struggles mid-way through a set, you start seeing a lot of anger and vocalization from Djokovic. Today, he'd frequently hang his head and move on to the next point.

 

[mistik]

Yup. He looked very comfortable throughout the match. Usually, if he struggles mid-way through a set, you start seeing a lot of anger and vocalization from Djokovic. Today, he'd frequently hang his head and move on to the next point.

That what happens when a dominant player plays with a guy who is in his mid 30s. He just knew deep down Fed cant keep his level long enough. Unlike Murray Djoko ask the question and Fed failed it.

 

[abmk]

forget it.....he blew those chances because he does not ultimately believe that he can take down peak djokovic or any version of nadal......he would have converted them and won his 8th title had it been any other player......he threw it away without a fight from 2-4 in the fourth set onwards......

he took down nadal twice in wimby finals and beat absolutely peak djokovic in RG 11, in an year where your boy failed to do so ...... now, federer is the GOAT and GOAT at wimbledon as well ...now , deal with it ....

 

[mistik]

I didn't waste my time watching this entire match just checked it out off and on. Once joker went up in the 3rd set I knew it was over. Then I turned it back on at the end of the fourth set to see the same old same old.

I watched the match but completely agree with you. This was none exciting match from the start. Murray or Stan would be match interesting final opponents for Djoko. Fed played really well last year and still lost. I wonder what makes Fed fans more hopeful for this year final when Novak overall results is nearly as good 2011 if not better.

 

[rh310]

Brain Game:

"Becker scouted Federer’s impressive semi-final victory over Murray from the Royal Box on Centre Court, and saw specific areas for Djokovic to attack in the final.

“Wimbledon finals are not won in the semi-final,” Becker knowingly pointed out.

“Roger peaked in the semi-final. He could not have played better, but I have seen Andy Murray play better as well. Of course, you get carried away with the legend, Roger has won it seven times, but I felt if Novak could get hold of the return, get Roger involved in the baseline rallies, just the extra point all the time, eventually he was going to wear him down.”

Hmm...well, Roger did get drawn into baseline play more often than not, and he did run out of gas about halfway through the 3rd set.

 

[tlm]

I agree with tlm to a degree, my impression is that Novak was outplaying Fed for the large portion of the match while Fed was scrambling and struggling to hold on. He gutted out one set but that's about it, Novak was putting tremendous pressure on him from the baseline and on the return.

Of course the key was the 1st and that is somewhat on Fed but after that I didn't really feel like Fed was the better player throughout the rest of the match.

Well it is obvious to anyone that is not blind. Look all credit to fed for still playing this good at his age it is very impressive. But for so many to really think that fed can take joker out this year in a best of 5 match is not thinking clearly or facing reality.

 

[70後]

Another Djokovic / Federer Wimbledon final in 2016. Same time next year, folks!

 

[racquetreligion]

I was predicting if Fed worked hard enough for the last 2 years after his slump, his stamina would be able to reflect that of Haas and some other over 34 YOs but clearly apart from stamina, Fed lacked mental belief. He looked so average out there and his BH was no where the weapon vs Murray who was pounding the ball heavier than Nole. Nole served better than Fed, more consistent and in the end what we hoped would be a well contested final was indeed more skewed than last years.

I really hope Stan does not fall to Gassedque or other weaker players that have no chance vs Nole but seriously this is the weakest era atm and Nole should be able to add many slam trophies in the next 3-4 years if he stays as fit which I believe he will. Nole is lightweight and carries no baggage like many other players do. I keep saying Nole is a modern superior version of Jimmie Connors but with way more brains, endearing spirit and class.

 

[Fed881981]

Nole served better than Fed, more consistent and in the end what we hoped would be a well contested final was indeed more skewed than last years.

Djokovic was not serving better than Fed:

Fed/ Djoker
1st serve in: 67%/66%
1st serve points won: 74/74
2nd serve points won: 49/60
Aces : 14/13
Average speed 1st serve: 117/119 mph
Average speed 1st serve: 102/96 mph

So, if by serving better you mean first serve %, aces, first-serve points won and speed, then they were pretty even. In fact, if I were to look at these stats, I wouldn't believe that Fed was well beaten in the last two sets of this match.
Numbers-wise: it was about Novak doing better on second serves (even though Fed served faster on average) and BPs, and Fed doing better on net points. But, this match wasn't just about these numbers.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Props mah peep!

I'm a tennis fan, meaning I like Sampras, Fed, Rafa, Djoko, Borg, Rios, Goran (that nut!), Connors, McEnroe, Edberg, etc., etc., …… ok maybe not Justin Gimmlestob….

I envy your ability to not get too emotional over tennis fandom.
Seriously, not trying to be sarcastic or smart or anything, I really do.
Hopefully I can grow up and not care so much.

 

[Down_the_line]

I envy your ability to not get too emotional over tennis fandom.
Seriously, not trying to be sarcastic or smart or anything, I really do.
Hopefully I can grow up and not care so much.

I think it comes with just loving the game. I'm certainly not saying you don't, but when you love the game more than anything you can just watch the tennis and objectively discuss it, whoever is playing and whoever wins.

 

[tennis_commentator]

Djokovic 2015 Wimbledon Final vs Federer
46 winners
16 unforced erros
66% first serves in
13 aces
20/34 net points (59%)
4/10 break points

Nadal 2015 Wimbledon Round 2 vs Brown
42 winners
15 unforced errors
72% first serves in
9 aces
26/41 net points (63%)
3/5 break points

 

[ArcspacE]

Djokovic 2015 Wimbledon Final vs Federer
46 winners
16 unforced erros
66% first serves in
13 aces
20/34 net points (59%)
4/10 break points

Nadal 2015 Wimbledon Round 2 vs Brown
42 winners
15 unforced errors
72% first serves in
9 aces
26/41 net points (63%)
3/5 break points

Cool story, bro

 

[smoledman]

Honestly if anyone thinks Nole will magically start declining next year, they are in denial. He is super fit and will easily be able to play at this level for another 3-4 years.

 

[jm1980]

Djokovic has locked up that #1 seed for the USO, no?

He's 4180 points ahead of Fed and only defending 180 points between now and the USO. Fed is defending 1600 (Canada final and Cincy win), so he can gain at most 400 points... Or 900 if he plays Hamburg and Washington and wins them both.

This means worst case scenario for Djoker he'll still be 3100 points ahead of Fed by the USO.

 

[smoledman]

That what happens when a dominant player plays with a guy who is in his mid 30s. He just knew deep down Fed cant keep his level long enough. Unlike Murray Djoko ask the question and Fed failed it.

This. He had the quiet confidence of knowing ******* would fold sooner or later. Federer is going to have to put the seeds of doubt by actually BEATING him in a GS final soon.

 

[racquetreligion]

Fed could not predict Noles serves for most of the match which is strange knowing how many times they have played.
Nole wasnt playing his best tennis, he just did what he needed to do and send them to Feds BH when he needed a cheap point

 

[racquetreligion]

Oh look! Federer shouting "Come on!" at opponent's unforced error.

pretty cheap shots showin total lack of confidence today using false hope for a bad day

and heres a reason FEd looked so ordinary for the finals

 

[Sentinel]

I envy your ability to not get too emotional over tennis fandom.
Seriously, not trying to be sarcastic or smart or anything, I really do.
Hopefully I can grow up and not care so much.

Growing up has nothing to do with it IMO. This is a cross you will have to bear now . I've been a fan of many players since 1979 or so, and of Fed and several other players for many years prior to joining this board. Only AFTER joining here, did i become so vested and emotional about Federer. This forum has a very polarizing atmosphere.

Prior to joining here, i often rooted for underdogs against Federer (can't believe it now !). I used to root for Djokovic against Fed in 2005-6 !!!

 

[tipsa...don'tlikehim!]

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Growing up has nothing to do with it IMO. This is a cross you will have to bear now . I've been a fan of many players since 1979 or so, and of Fed and several other players for many years prior to joining this board. Only AFTER joining here, did i become so vested and emotional about Federer. This forum has a very polarizing atmosphere.

Prior to joining here, i often rooted for underdogs against Federer (can't believe it now !). I used to root for Djokovic against Fed in 2005-6 !!!

Actually you may well have a point.
Kind of like how political debate can just polarise things further.
I enjoy talking to people on here though, I have a lot to learn about tennis and I can't help but feel I am still in the right place.

 

[jga111]

My comments are spot on just because I am living in reality and you are in fantasyland. Everyone has seen this same movie multiple times in the last few years and it always ends the same. What's to funny is all the fed lovers the last couple days on this site going through all these different scenario's of how fed can actually win this match. Now that was some hilarious reading, but hey just keep convincing yourself so that you think you are being taking seriously. LOL

I refer to my comments above. #peurile #silly #youDidntEvenWatchTheMatch #fedHadAChance #weLoveMovies! Lol

 

[Sentinel]

Actually you may well have a point.
Kind of like how political debate can just polarise things further.
I enjoy talking to people on here though, I have a lot to learn about tennis and I can't help but feel I am still in the right place.

Last night, the match started at about 7 pm my time. By nine, when it was time for dinner, my stomach was in such a bad shape I had to take an antacid and sip some lime-soda. Even then at ten, i just had a small bite (forced). Totally tight and paining. This usually does happen during Fed matches, but it's never been this bad.

I think we strongly start identifying with a player at some point. Notice how some trolls man the board round the clock looking for any post criticizing their player and hitting back. Nadal Freak used to be one such guy here once, who even admitted he could not sleep at night worrying that someone somewhere on the internet may have said something about Nadal and that he had to defend Nadal everywhere.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Last night, the match started at about 7 pm my time. By nine, when it was time for dinner, my stomach was in such a bad shape I had to take an antacid and sip some lime-soda. Even then at ten, i just had a small bite (forced). Totally tight and paining. This usually does happen during Fed matches, but it's never been this bad.

I think we strongly start identifying with a player at some point. Notice how some trolls man the board round the clock looking for any post criticizing their player and hitting back. Nadal Freak used to be one such guy here once, who even admitted he could not sleep at night worrying that someone somewhere on the internet may have said something about Nadal and that he had to defend Nadal everywhere.

Humans are far from perfect.
That goes for us, Nadal freak, Federer, and Djokovic.
I get really nervous during Roger's big matches too, especially if I think he has a good chance of winning.

 

[ScottleeSV]

It's hilarious how many fed lovers were actually thinking fed had a chance of winning the final. I will give him credit for making it and taking out Murray. But please this match was a joke, there was no way in hell old man fed was going to take 3 sets off joker. He was lucky that that joker pulled one of his choke jobs in the 2nd otherwise it was a routine straight set win.

I will give fed credit for still playing good at his age but he has no chance of taking 3 sets in a major against joker. It does show with rafa fading and Murray a head case there is not much competition for joker. He is getting off easy. I am sorry but these titles off old man fed don't mean much. Where was he when fed was in his prime? I can only remember him taking fed out at AO years back when fed was playing at his peak level.

Djoko was only 5/6 for the win yesterday. I can only presume you made a fortune?

 

[tennis_commentator]

How would you guys rate Djokovic's speed/quickness (mark out of 10) on grass compared to 2006-2008 Rafa?
I think yesterday's final was a good example because Djokovic used his retrieving skills more in this match than perhaps any other Wimbledon match he's ever played.

 

[WarriorRafa]

you need to get a reality check:

djoko prevented nadal from winning at max : wim 11, USO 11 and AO 12

he's cost federer : AO 11, wim 14, wim 15 and arguably AO 08 and USO 11

Yeah but the losses Nadal had were at his peak/prime, thus more detrimental especially after the fantastic 2010 that he had. Nadal could have won four slams in a row and would have overtaken Federer in GS count. While Federer was post prime for most of his losses against Novak, even in 08 he was sick during AO. Novak was expected to win most of those matches.

 

[Deleted member 77403]

you need to get a reality check:

djoko prevented nadal from winning at max : wim 11, USO 11 and AO 12

he's cost federer : AO 11, wim 14, wim 15 and arguably AO 08 and USO 11

The is true, but you can argue Djokovic cost Nadal RG 15 also. We don't know for sure what would have happened if Nadal had managed to get past Djokovic. We know how lethal he is in the business end of RG.

 

[Deleted member 77403]

he took down nadal twice in wimby finals and beat absolutely peak djokovic in RG 11, in an year where your boy failed to do so ...... now, federer is the GOAT and GOAT at wimbledon as well ...now , deal with it ....

Yes, with 10 finals, Federer is now Wimbledon GOAT.

 

[tlm]

Djoko was only 5/6 for the win yesterday. I can only presume you made a fortune?

I am not a gambler. But they want to give all the fed lovers confidence so they can take more of their money.

I refer to my comments above. #peurile #silly #youDidntEvenWatchTheMatch #fedHadAChance #weLoveMovies! Lol

I watched it off and on. I didn't watch the entire match because it was a waste of time. Like I said I have already seen the end of this movie. The LOL part is many like you that actually thought fed could win this thing.

 

[jga111]

I am not a gambler. But


I watched it off and on. I didn't watch the entire match because it was a waste of time. Like I said I have already seen the end of this movie. The LOL part is many like you that actually thought fed could win this thing.

He had a chance. Not a great chance, but he had a chance. I've been in sport a long time now and believe me when I tell you I've seen bigger 'upsets' than Federer beating Djokovic. To say he had no chance at all is just plain ignorant.

 

[tlm]

He had a chance. Not a great chance, but he had a chance. I've been in sport a long time now and believe me when I tell you I've seen bigger 'upsets' than Federer beating Djokovic. To say he had no chance at all is just plain ignorant.

There is always some chance, like joker getting injured or just being completely off. But that was about feds only hope. If you want to see ignorance just read all the threads before this match of how many that really thought fed would win. LOL

 

[ScottleeSV]

If you know the result, it's not gambling.

 

[abmk]

Yeah but the losses Nadal had were at his peak/prime, thus more detrimental especially after the fantastic 2010 that he had. Nadal could have won four slams in a row and would have overtaken Federer in GS count. While Federer was post prime for most of his losses against Novak, even in 08 he was sick during AO. Novak was expected to win most of those matches.

without Novak , fed would've taken AO 2011 and maybe AO 2008 even before that. How would rafa have come close to overtaking federer then ?

Novak was not "expected" to win AO 2011 btw ...federer was the better in-form player at the end of 2010 having dominated the field at the YEC, including Novak.

USO 11 was expected to be tight as well esp. after federer took him down at RG ...and b/w fed and rafa, I'd say a tossup as fed was the better in-form player, that and the surface conditions would've somewhat neutralised rafa's matchup advantage .....

reality is Novak has cost federer more slams than he has rafa ...

 

[abmk]

The is true, but you can argue Djokovic cost Nadal RG 15 also. We don't know for sure what would have happened if Nadal had managed to get past Djokovic. We know how lethal he is in the business end of RG.

not 2015 rafa ..

I'd give 2010 federer a greater chance of taking down 2010 USO rafa than of rafa winning RG 2015 ( both considerably less than 50% of course ) --- notice, I didn't mention USO 2010 for fed ..federer had one bad match vs djoko in USO 10, was playing well before that ....rafa OTOH stunk up the whole CC season this time and wasn't even that convincing at RG ....

 

[tipsa...don'tlikehim!]

I envy your ability to not get too emotional over tennis fandom.
Seriously, not trying to be sarcastic or smart or anything, I really do.
Hopefully I can grow up and not care so much.

Imagine being a Ferrer fan (or if we mention slam winners, a Murray fan).

 

[King Fed WW]

Imagine being a Ferrer fan (or if we mention slam winners, a Murray fan).

It is all relative to expectations mate.

Murray winning Wimbledon would have given as much joy to Murray fans as breaking the slam record gave to Fed fans.

 

[zep]

Djokovic 2015 Wimbledon Final vs Federer
46 winners
16 unforced erros
66% first serves in
13 aces
20/34 net points (59%)
4/10 break points

Nadal 2015 Wimbledon Round 2 vs Brown
42 winners
15 unforced errors
72% first serves in
9 aces
26/41 net points (63%)
3/5 break points

It just shows how deceiving stats can be. From those stats if one did not know the result 9 out of 10 times one would guess that Nadal won the match. But he was not even close. It also highlights how poor Nadal has been in crucial moments this year. He has lost many matches these year where he played decent enough to win but was horrible on important points.

 

[LoboLaw1984]

GOAT in numbers and longevity. I also put him in the top group where each could beat each other on any given day. The goat I think gets misconstrued as being this player who would never ever lose and is invincible. Not.

That really sums it up - could not agree more

 

[Deleted member 688153]

GOAT in numbers and longevity. I also put him in the top group where each could beat each other on any given day. The goat I think gets misconstrued as being this player who would never ever lose and is invincible. Not.

Indeed.
Even peak Fed had losses, to Safin at the AO in 2005 comes to mind, not to mention to Nadal plenty of times.
Nadal lost to Soderling.
Sampras lost to Krajicek.
No-one is invincible.

The best is still the best, but it's just the person with the most positives and least negatives at the end of the day, not perfection.

Novak is making a strong case to be included in the top group.

 

[Deleted member 77403]

not 2015 rafa ..

I'd give 2010 federer a greater chance of taking down 2010 USO rafa than of rafa winning RG 2015 ( both considerably less than 50% of course ) --- notice, I didn't mention USO 2010 for fed ..federer had one bad match vs djoko in USO 10, was playing well before that ....rafa OTOH stunk up the whole CC season this time and wasn't even that convincing at RG ....

Lets just agree to disagree again. Nadal stunk up the joint in 2014 also, and still walked away the RG champion. He is undefeated when he makes the title match, so I won't right him off, if he had got past Novak. If he got past him, he would have been a massive favorite in the eyes of quite a few people. So lets just agree to disagree.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

Lol. Nadal was in no shape or form to win 2015 RG. Absolutely none. It stems from very clear current physical deficiencies — not mental, physical. His core physical deficiencies (which would have seen him lose to Djokovic, Murray or Wawrinka no matter which quarter he'd have ended up in) then filter through to the rest of his game and make him doubt himself and his tactics. Nadal is physically rekt and needs some time to bring his fitness back up to Slam winning levels.

He loses explosiveness in the legs after 2 sets. Someone said that Nadal had considerably less than 50% chance to win 2015 RG. I'd say in hindsight, he had less than a 5% chance to win RG. He'd have needed a damn bleeding flippin' miracle to win 2015 RG.

 

[Rosstour]

Lol. Nadal was in no shape or form to win 2015 RG. Absolutely none. It stems from very clear current physical deficiencies — not mental, physical. His core physical deficiencies (which would have seen him lose to Djokovic, Murray or Wawrinka no matter which quarter he'd have ended up in) then filter through to the rest of his game and make him doubt himself and his tactics. Nadal is physically rekt and needs some time to bring his fitness back up to Slam winning levels.

You think it is simply a matter of getting his fitness back up?

IMO---Rafa is done winning any Slams aside from 1-2 more RGs. I thought in 2012-13 that for sure he was going to pass Fed at some point, but the decline has been so steep...

He is still a fighter with a strong mentality, but losing a step or two can undermine (reasonably so) even the strongest mentality. Just like Fed in 2008/9, Rafa's invincibility is gone. And because of his injury history I do not think that at 29, 30, 31 he is going to be any real threat to dominate any more.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

You think it is simply a matter of getting his fitness back up?

IMO---Rafa is done winning any Slams aside from 1-2 more RGs. I thought in 2012-13 that for sure he was going to pass Fed at some point, but the decline has been so steep...

He is still a fighter with a strong mentality, but losing a step or two can undermine (reasonably so) even the strongest mentality. Just like Fed in 2008/9, Rafa's invincibility is gone. And because of his injury history I do not think that at 29, 30, 31 he is going to be any real threat to dominate any more.

I think right now even if Nadal was mentally at his strongest, he'd just be incapable of winning a Slam. He isn't physically ready. To me it's that simple. Now unfortunately, that also impacts the rest of his game and so it means he has many things to fix right now, but perhaps just being physically ready will put everything else in its place in double-quick time. On the other hand, the damage that has filtered down to his psyche might be unrecoverable even if he finds his fitness. Hard to say.