2015 Wimbledon semi-final Federer vs 2015 Wimbledon final Djokovic

[Megafanoftennis100]

So many people claim that Federer played much worse in the Wimbledon final against Djokovic than he did in the semi-final against Murray in 2015.
I am not sure if they really mean it objectively or if they are simply saying that to discredit Djokovic’s victory.
In my opinion, I think that his serve was indeed better in the semis, but everything else was about the same. And considering that Djokovic is a better returner than Murray (and arguably even the best returner ever), I don’t think that Federer could have so easily beaten Djokovic, even with a better serve.
Not to mention that he nearly got straight-setted by Djokovic in the final and had to basically sell his soul to win the 2nd set tiebreak.
But what do you guys think?

 

[Subway Tennis]

So many people claim that Federer played much worse in the Wimbledon final against Djokovic than he did in the semi-final against Murray in 2015.
I am not sure if they really mean it objectively or if they are simply saying that to discredit Djokovic’s victory.
In my opinion, I think that his serve was indeed better in the semis, but everything else was about the same. And considering that Djokovic is a better returner than Murray (and arguably even the best returner ever), I don’t think that Federer could have so easily beaten Djokovic, even with a better serve.
Not to mention that he nearly got straight-setted by Djokovic in the final and had to basically sell his soul to win the 2nd set tiebreak.
But what do you guys think?

Djokovic being a better grasscourt returner than Murray is arguable, even more so if we are only including their career up until 2015.

 

[Megafanoftennis100]

Djokovic being a better grasscourt returner than Murray is arguable, even more so if we are only including their career up until 2015.

Come on, 2011/2015 Djokovic > any version of Murray on grass. I would even make the same argument for 2014 Djokovic. In 2013, Djokovic seemed visibly tired after his gruelling match against Del Potro in the semis. And in 2012, he lost to an extremely good Federer who was playing out of his mind (whom Murray also lost to)

 

[Subway Tennis]

Come on, 2011/2015 Djokovic > any version of Murray on grass. I would even make the same argument for 2014 Djokovic. In 2013, Djokovic seemed visibly tired after his gruelling match against Del Potro in the semis. And in 2012, he lost to an extremely good Federer who was playing out of his mind (whom Murray also lost to)

I’m referring to the return on grasscourt.

One of your premises is that Djokovic is a better returner than Murray. That may not be the case on grass.

 

[fedfan24]

djokovic in 4. 2012 fed gets it done in 4 or a close 5th

 

[btsjungkook]

It's the same Federer in 2015 Wimbledon, so Djokovic still wins obviously.

 

[Megafanoftennis100]

djokovic in 4. 2012 fed gets it done in 4 or a close 5th

Wait, you seem to be contradicting yourself. Federer clearly played better in 2015 Wimbledon semi-final than he did in 2012 Wimbledon. So if Djokovic can beat 2015 Wimbledon semi-final Fed, then how would he lose to an inferior version? Besides, 2015 Djokovic has better serve and net game than his 2012 self and has become a more complete player. I’d say 2015 Djokovic in 4 over 2012 Federer.
Against 2003-2006 Federer on the other hand, he may win 4.5/10 times

 

[fedfan24]

Wait, you seem to be contradicting yourself. Federer clearly played better in 2015 Wimbledon semi-final than he did in 2012 Wimbledon. So if Djokovic can beat 2015 Wimbledon semi-final Fed, then how would he lose to an inferior version? Besides, 2015 Djokovic has better serve and net game than his 2012 self and has become a more complete player. I’d say 2015 Djokovic in 4 over 2012 Federer.
Against 2003-2006 Federer on the other hand, he may win 4.5/10 times

2012 fed was much better from the back than 2015 versions no way in a million years is djokovic taking him out in 4. In real life matches we saw fed beat djokovic in 4 then lose in 4. Im taking 2012 guy.

 

[Megafanoftennis100]

2012 fed was much better from the back than 2015 versions no way in a million years is djokovic taking him out in 4. In real life matches we saw fed beat djokovic in 4 then lose in 4. Im taking 2012 guy.

True, I agree. But 2015 Djokovic had much better serve, net game and slice and his FH was also better than in 2012. Against, as I said, he became a more complete player and was also in his physical prime. Also, in 2012, Federer barely broke Djokovic to win the 3rd set, but that was helped majorly by Djokovic missing an easy putaway overhead. No way that 2015 Djokovic would have made the same dumb mistake. If it were 2015 Djokovic, the 3rd set would have gone to a tiebreaker at least, with 2015 maybe winning it by a hair (as long as he does not choke like he did in the 2nd set tiebreak in 2015 final).
But either way, whoever wins, I truly believe that 2012 Federer vs 2015 Djokovic at Wimbledon would be an absolutely legendary match, even better than WB 2008 final or 2019 final.

 

[Megafanoftennis100]

2012 fed was much better from the back than 2015 versions no way in a million years is djokovic taking him out in 4. In real life matches we saw fed beat djokovic in 4 then lose in 4. Im taking 2012 guy.

Also, I have seen many Fedfans say that his performance in the 2015 semi-final was one of his best ever matches played on grass, even better than his 2012 Wimbledon run. They are the ones that say that if Federer had played against Djokovic like he did against Murray, then Djokovic would have gotten smoked.

 

[Megafanoftennis100]

I have also seen threads, where people claimed that 2015 Wimbledon semi-final Federer > 2007/2008 Wimbledon Nadal.
And they weren’t even Djokovic fans saying it.

 

[fedfan24]

True, I agree. But 2015 Djokovic had much better serve, net game and slice and his FH was also better than in 2012. Against, as I said, he became a more complete player and was also in his physical prime. Also, in 2012, Federer barely broke Djokovic to win the 3rd set, but that was helped majorly by Djokovic missing an easy putaway overhead. No way that 2015 Djokovic would have made the same dumb mistake. If it were 2015 Djokovic, the 3rd set would have gone to a tiebreaker at least, with 2015 maybe winning it by a hair (as long as he does not choke like he did in the 2nd set tiebreak in 2015 final).
But either way, whoever wins, I truly believe that 2012 Federer vs 2015 Djokovic at Wimbledon would be an absolutely legendary match, even better than WB 2008 final or 2019 final.

maybe djokovic in 5 or fed in 4. Would be a hell of a match.

 

[fedfan24]

Also, I have seen many Fedfans say that his performance in the 2015 semi-final was one of his best ever matches played on grass, even better than his 2012 Wimbledon run. They are the ones that say that if Federer had played against Djokovic like he did against Murray, then Djokovic would have gotten smoked.

maybe fed could’ve served a little better but djokovic return made the difference in the final. Murray simply isn’t the same challenge for federer. Fantastic serve + 1 day but the foundations of his game were a notch below 2012 without getting into 03-09

 

[Megafanoftennis100]

maybe fed could’ve served a little better but djokovic return made the difference in the final. Murray simply isn’t the same challenge for federer. Fantastic serve + 1 day but the foundations of his game were a notch below 2012 without getting into 03-09

Thanks for providing your insights. I totally agree with you. Also, it seems quite ironic how many people picked “Djokovic in 4” in the polls, despite the fact that this talk tennis platform is swarming with Fed fans.

 

[Third Serve]

Fed served much better in the semifinal which could be enough to steal another set but the rest of his game left something to be desired. A player like Murray—especially post-2013 Murray—can’t really expose this, but Djokovic on the other hand…

 

[Third Serve]

maybe fed could’ve served a little better but djokovic return made the difference in the final. Murray simply isn’t the same challenge for federer. Fantastic serve + 1 day but the foundations of his game were a notch below 2012 without getting into 03-09

Meh, I think Murray returned Fed’s serve about as well as Djokovic did, perhaps even better.

But Fed just served way better in the semifinal. 73% first serve percentage should tell you everything. Dipped about seven percentage points in the final, which is of course far from bad but still a noticeable drop off. The problem with a 73% first serve percentage is that it’s just not very repeatable. The stars had to align for Fed to put in that serving performance in the semifinal, so I don’t necessarily blame him too much for falling off a bit in the next round.

 

[jl809]

Come on, 2011/2015 Djokovic > any version of Murray on grass. I would even make the same argument for 2014 Djokovic. In 2013, Djokovic seemed visibly tired after his gruelling match against Del Potro in the semis. And in 2012, he lost to an extremely good Federer who was playing out of his mind (whom Murray also lost to)

Based on what? How Djoker beat Gasquet, Tsonga, Nadal and Old Feddy?

He never even won 1 set against Murray on grass. He never even got to a TB in any set! Had no excuse of a long match beforehand in 2012 and took the L in straights

Djoker is better against the field than Murray, no question, especially vs Federer and Nadal on grass. But in a direct match it’s not going to be pretty

 

[jl809]

For the OP iirc Fed basically won 2015 SF through an insane serving performance and Murray not going for attack during rallies. If we repeat the serving performance, he does enough to get it to 5 sets, but I think Djoker being a far better counterpuncher than Murray at that point gives him the edge

 

[Megafanoftennis100]

Based on what? How Djoker beat Gasquet, Tsonga, Nadal and Old Feddy?

He never even won 1 set against Murray on grass. He never even got to a TB in any set! Had no excuse of a long match beforehand in 2012 and took the L in straights

Djoker is better against the field than Murray, no question, especially vs Federer and Nadal on grass. But in a direct match it’s not going to be pretty

Did Djokovic face Murray on grass anytime in either 2011 or 2015? 2012-2013 Djokovic was indeed great on grass, but he was not as good as in 2011, 2014/2015.

 

[RS]

Wim 2002 Hewitt

 

[jl809]

Did Djokovic face Murray on grass anytime in either 2011 or 2015? 2012-2013 Djokovic was indeed great on grass, but he was not as good as in 2011, 2014/2015.

Sure, which I guess is my point - it’s uncertain, we know Djoker was better in 11 and 15 than 12 and 13 but the only evidence we have from the matchup was so firmly in favour of Muzzah. I actually think his 2013 final rounds weren’t great from him either, he didn’t play that well in the final - was much better in 2016 with the amazing passing, offensive BH and particularly the GOATing return game, which was up there with the best grass returning I’ve seen on the slower stuff

It would be a really rough, probably long match if peak Djoker and peak Lendl Murray faced off on centre court

 

[RS]

Sure, which I guess is my point - it’s uncertain, we know Djoker was better in 11 and 15 than 12 and 13 but the only evidence we have from the matchup was so firmly in favour of Muzzah. I actually think his 2013 final rounds weren’t great from him either, he didn’t play that well in the final - was much better in 2016 with the amazing passing, offensive BH and particularly the GOATing return game, which was up there with the best grass returning I’ve seen on the slower stuff

It would be a really rough, probably long match if peak Djoker and peak Lendl Murray faced off on centre court

I wonder if Murray's back issues were effecting him at all during Wim 2013. It may have been.

 

[Sport]

Vruh, we saw the answer in the final.

 

[TheAssassin]

Djokovic beat him in the other two Wimbledon finals despite having more dips in his own game, especially the last one. You never know as always with any imaginary match but I wouldn't bet on Federer given how much Djokovic was dialed in at 2015 Wimbledon...

 

[nolefam_2024]

Vruh, we saw the answer in the final.

There is no difference between 2014/2015 Nole either. In 2015, it was just Nole playing at much higher confidence. In 2014, Nole had some wrist related issues as early as MC.

Federer in 2014 was at least hopeful of winning slam vs Nole. In 2015 he had no hope.

2014 vs 2015
Nole won AO in 2015 while in 2014 fed went further in the draw.
Dubai Fed played a bit better.

Dubai was the only bright spot
IW Nole won again beating, this time barely needing third set
Miami Nole won again but Federer didn't even participate.
MC Nole won, while last year's finalist Federer didn't participate. Nole was injured that year.
Madrid both skipped
Rome Nole won, a disastrous defeat for Federer
RG Nole lost in final, fed lost in QF just like 2014
Halle fed won

2015 Nole had no injury.
Every single tournament Nole was better than last year. He had won a slam already, won 1 more masters vs fed and was 2-1 for the year vs fed as opposed to 1-2 in 2014.

Fed had pretty low confidence vs Nole in 2015.

Federer played great vs Murray but it's the same Murray who lost 3 times to Nadal in Wimbledon and 1 time to Federer. It's a whole different game facing the player like Djokovic 2015 than playing Murray.

I think Federer fans OVER EXAGGERATED Federer's game that day. I watched the match from start to finish but saw Murray too weak.

It's like Nolefams bragging about sinner win after ultimately losing to Alcaraz the next round.