veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Yeah, that's what I said before, Novak never had it easy to win slams. He won all of them the hard way.Even better thing is that he won all his Slams after beating at least one of the Big 4 players.
2016 Australian Open Final - [1] Djokovic vs. [2] Murray
- Thread starter Adv. Edberg
- Start date
DownThe Line66
New User
Murray could learn a lot from Kerber about attitude and playing the point you're in. He also needs Lendle back. And Djokvic is a sneaky c*nt - at 5-5 40-0 he encouraged Murray to challenge, knowing full well it was out. He took the initiative away from Murray, slowed it down, and won the next 5 points to break. As close to cheating as you can get at this level.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Thanks babe.
What about Nadal and Fed?
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
You're welcomeThanks babe.
Nadal:
RG 2014: Murray/Djokovic
RG 2011: Murray/Federer
W 2008: Murray/Federer (but note that Murray was not a top 10 player at that time)
RG 2008: Djokovic/Federer
RG 2007: Djokovic/Federer
RG 2006: Djokovic/Federer (Djoko was out of top 60!)
So your info is wrong. Nadal did it 6 times but with the reservations I indicated (2 of those 6 times happened before big 4 became top players), so I guess they didn't count W 2008 and RG 2006 because Djokoray were out of top 10.
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Harry_Wild
G.O.A.T.
Best "audio quality" in a long time for a GS ceremony!
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Federer:
W 2012: Djokovic/Murray
USO 2008: Djokovic/Murray
Fed won a lot of slams with cream puff draws.
W 2012: Djokovic/Murray
USO 2008: Djokovic/Murray
Fed won a lot of slams with cream puff draws.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
They're both 28. Kerber's just won her first Slam. Murray had already won 2 by that age. I doubt he needs too many lessons from Angie K.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
He's in the same situation as Nadal. They should just get together and join forces to figure out the best strategy
Tennis_Hands
Banned
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
7 slams won without facing a top 4.Don't complain, when being called ignorant.
I know, truth hurts
Most of the GS finals he lost, he lost to Novak, but, also, only ones that he won (except 2012 Olympics) were against Novak, so probably he is his main nemesis. For the other guys mentioned, Rafa and Rog had their fair share of wins over anybody, however, I have a feeling that Ferrer and Berdych also could have couple of slams have they played in some other time, but Andy... Djok has to be THE worst nightmare for him.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
7 slams won without facing a top 4.
I know, truth hurts
You don't know what you are talking about and that is what I said.
The truth can be discussed by people, who actually know what means what.
The ones like you are reduced to a sad existence in efforts to forge some kind of reality.
The best part is that the more you are shown to be like this, the more you have to work to delude yourself.
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veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Facts my friend, facts. 7 out of 17 without facing a top 4. Not Fed's fault of course but...weak competition.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
You don't know what you are talking about.
Even about your favourite player you don't know basic things.
You may write whatever you want here, but I know it and , more importantly, you know it.
Cannot escape from yourself, when you are away from your keyboard.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Forget about insults and focus on arguments (yeah I know, you don't have any...)
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Last time I had an "argument" based on knowledge about tennis matters with you you ran with a tail between your legs.
Those are not insults, but facts.
You said that we should focus on them, and that is what I am doing.
dunlop_fort_knox
Professional
lol 31% of TTers either LUV andy "so much" or really hate nole a lot.
swordtennis
G.O.A.T.
Bittersweet win. Not much to celebrate. Gutted for Andy. Made me cry last night. has so much passion. You can tell he wants it he is just up against a machine. AO is becoming like the FO was to Rafa. He does not have to play well just has to play within themselves and the opponent will beat themselves and outside forces will take care of the rest. Entrenched is the term.
dunlop_fort_knox
Professional
exposed? lol.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
You said that we should focus on them, and that is what I am doing.
Nope on the subject of Fed winning 7 slams without facing top 4, you've been completely argumentless
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Murray got robbed! On two separate break points in the 2nd set, Djokovic's serves were well long but were not overruled by the umpire. Had Murray broken in either or both of those times, he could have won the 2nd set and then it would have been a completely different match from then on.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Nope on the subject of Fed winning 7 slams without facing top 4, you've been completely argumentless
Ahhh.
But what do you know about the players that contested all those finals with Federer?
Nothing.
That is the whole point.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Most common slam final pairs in the last 5 years (since AO 2011):
Djoko/Murray: 6 times (4 AO, 1 USO, 1 W)
Djoko/Nadal: 6 times (2 RG, 2 USO, 1 W, 1 AO)
Djoko/Fed: 3 times (2 W, 1 USO)
Note that Djoko/Nadal is the only one that happened in all 4 slams and Djoko/Murray the only one that happened more that twice at a specific slam.
Djoko/Murray: 6 times (4 AO, 1 USO, 1 W)
Djoko/Nadal: 6 times (2 RG, 2 USO, 1 W, 1 AO)
Djoko/Fed: 3 times (2 W, 1 USO)
Note that Djoko/Nadal is the only one that happened in all 4 slams and Djoko/Murray the only one that happened more that twice at a specific slam.
swordtennis
G.O.A.T.
The 5 setter with Raonic did affect his legs in the 1st set. The last 2 games of the 1st is when he started getting his legs back. After that the match was close and entertaining.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Tennis_Hands
Banned
I know that they were not top 4 players 7 of the times
That doesn't mean much, if you don't know what they played like, what kind of resistance they provided, in what form they were etc.
But, seeing that you can't do much better than quoting sources, I guess that you will have to settle with this.
Otherwise, should you start to really research what you are quoting, I am afraid your enthusiasm for dissing Federer might be slightly reduced.
Also, the more you get confronted with the things about your knowledge, the more you post.
So, go on, post moar facts of the meaning of which you have no clue.
You can't be serious, but to answer anyway - what about challenge? Hawk-eye is mostly present and available at big tournaments, especially at majors finals, so, it's just Andy bad luck the he returned well both balls, only to lose the point later, but... hey, stop the play and take it like the man, don't moan on the (far side overrule is indeed rare) umpire. He did challenge that one on the 40-0 game that he lost, though... though luck all in all, robbed - ummm, not so much.
Fedex
Legend
Wow I didn't realise that happened twice!
Murray really should have bagged that set.
I believe 2012 clutch Murray with Lendl kicking his arse would have won today.
Time and time again Murray gets into great positions then blows them away somehow. Umpire didn't help but overall it was down to Murray to do the business.
Cortana
Legend
Just a matter of time when he will surpass them all in every hard court record.
I think he will end up with 10+ HC slams, 7+ WTF titles, 25+ HC Masters and 60+ HC titles.
DownThe Line66
New User
They're both 28. Kerber's just won her first Slam. Murray had already won 2 by that age. I doubt he needs too many lessons from Angie K.
Man...I wasn't referring to their respective careers, but to the way each of them approached a GS final against their world No.1.
Kerber was probably more of an underdog than Murray, but she stayed focused, kept believing in herself, played her best shots under pressure, and she pulled it off.
Do you think Murray could ever win a GS final if he got broken serving at 5-3 in the final set?
abmk
Bionic Poster
I know that they were not top 4 players 7 of the times
yeah, because the other players kicked the a**** out of those top 4 players.
Remember that glorious day when Fernando Gonzalez blasted nadal out of court in AO 07 ?
Remember that glorious day when Roddick blasted Murray out his way in Wim 09 ?
etc. etc.
yeah, I didn't think so.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
bjsnider
Hall of Fame
Most matches are won and lost before they're ever played. Djokovic is winning because of his attention to detail, his preparation, his determination to master his weaknesses. How Djokovic spends his time between matches and tournaments is making all the difference. The separation from the field is due to the fact that the rest of the tour is either unwilling or unable to make those same sorts of changes. For example, just about every observer has been loudly complaining about Murray's serve -- how much has he done about it? He's made some changes, but not enough. This year's final was even more lopsided than last year.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
veroniquem,
if you want to learn something about Federer's opponent in the AO 07 final, WATCH this match, because I KNOW that you haven't.
OK?
if you want to learn something about Federer's opponent in the AO 07 final, WATCH this match, because I KNOW that you haven't.
OK?
zvelf
Hall of Fame
Members who should have known better.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
BTW.
Something that I have forgotten, but the match in question reminded me of: Nadal's gamesmanship by trying to irritate his opponent with nailing a ball that was already called out on purpose.
Something that I have forgotten, but the match in question reminded me of: Nadal's gamesmanship by trying to irritate his opponent with nailing a ball that was already called out on purpose.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Exactly, there was no consistent competition at the top. Now there is. Fed took advantage of that situation in the first part of his career. He didn't have a strong consistent rival on hard until after his prime years (after 2007)
indianabones
Rookie
Agree 100% but would like to add that Djokovic also has some very unique gifts that people overlook. He has an unbelievable ability to pick serves and return them within a few inches of the baseline in a way that no one else ever has. Djokovic great flexibility in his ankles allowing those great defensive shots off both wins, these are things you are born with.
The fitness and improvement of certain shots, the gameplan is something every player can work on and improve.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
I really hope Muzza wins this title at least once before calling it a career. As for the heavyweight champion...the question is simple. Who's next?
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
That's due to the combination of Murray's serve stats not being competitive enough anymore (since his operation) and Djoko's serve stats improving significantly at the same time.
Murray was at 81.7% service games won on hard last year (even worse than Nadal with 83.8). That's an awful stat for him. You can't win the big ones with a stat like that.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
I have a question for veroniquem.
How can she compare the players from back then with the players now, when:
1) she doesn't have any idea about the players from back then
2) she doesn't know what she sees, when watching players play
How can she compare the players from back then with the players now, when:
1) she doesn't have any idea about the players from back then
2) she doesn't know what she sees, when watching players play
abmk
Bionic Poster
you mean consistent competition like Murray who played nowhere close to his best in 4 out of the 5 matches at the AO ( 2012 being the exception ) .ok.
zvelf
Hall of Fame
I agree that he could have kept Bjorkman on at the same time as Mauresmo. But if whatever she did helped him get to the AO final, that's still pretty damn good. Considering no one is beating Djokovic these days, it just may be the case that regardless of who his coach is, Murray's not going to do much better against Novak than he currently is. Improving his forehand and second serve will help, but I think his mental game may be his biggest obstacle at the moment and that will be the hardest to change.
The Fedfather
Legend
Um, so why is this guy the world's number 2 currently? You were the one comparing the level and consistency of the competition for Roger and Novak during their best years, insisting that the latter has it tougher. And then you say stuff like that about the second best player in the world?
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Because there is not enough competition, so weak era MUGS can be #2 without a pretty good serve.
Oh, wait, she just said that there is much more consistency at the top of the game nowadays.
The Green Mile
Bionic Poster
People really shouldn't look at rankings when looking at who had the tougher paths to the trophy. One of the most ignorant ideas on here really (IMO). If you watched all these matches you can see who played well and who didn't, which is all that matters really. It's why I regard opinions of some guys who are very active in Pro Match Results, and who watch a lot of matches.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Yes, but for some lazy people, for which watching tennis for the game itself is a bore, is much easier and quicker to get reputation for knowledge by going by the ranking, no?
That saves them the trouble to actually have to understand things, which can be, well , bore and lacking adrenalin.
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