2016 Indian Wells/BNP Paribas Open WTA

Who will take the title?

  • Serena

    Votes: 5 38.5%

  • Kerber

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Radwanska

    Votes: 1 7.7%

  • Muguruza

    Votes: 2 15.4%

  • Halep

    Votes: 1 7.7%

  • Suarez Navarro

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Bencic

    Votes: 2 15.4%

  • Kvitova

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Vinci

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Other?

    Votes: 2 15.4%
  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .
RSH said:
Do you remember what were some of his suggestions?
Click to expand...

Just as I pointed out: that players should draw her out away from the baseline (as if she stays there) and attack the net. That might work against players who are only taught one kind of game, but Serena knows the entire court, and as we witnessed in the Radwanska match, trying to place Serena in a box she does not occupy is a strategy guaranteed to fail.
 
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
Just as I pointed out: that players should draw her out away from the baseline (as if she stays there) and attack the net. That might work against players who are only taught one kind of game, but Serena knows the entire court, and as we witnessed in the Radwanska match, trying to place Serena in a box she does not occupy is a strategy guaranteed to fail.
Click to expand...
I don't think an experienced coach like Cahill is unaware of Serena's doubles sense and forecourt skill. Serena's default style is aggressive baseliner; she stays there the majority of the time in a match, so I don't think it's an attempt to pigeonhole her game if he suggests strategies for moving her off the baseline.
 
RSH said:
I don't think an experienced coach like Cahill is unaware of Serena's doubles sense and forecourt skill. Serena's default style is aggressive baseliner; she stays there the majority of the time in a match, so I don't think it's an attempt to pigeonhole her game if he suggests strategies for moving her off the baseline.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I just don't see what TV could possibly suggest to Serena's opponents that would so much better than what some of these coaches are saying. They're bound to get a few strategic points right, these players have played Serena enough times for almost everything in the book to have been attempted at least once. He always oscillates between two attitudes: when criticizing coaches or players like Radwanska, he usually paints the picture of an unassailable Serena whose game is so complete that nobody can do anything about it; on the other hand, when anyone talks about her utter domination of the tour and how nobody seems to stand a chance against her, he reacts by saying she's very beatable and has a lot of good opposition that could threaten her. It's puzzling.
 
ScentOfDefeat said:
Yeah, I just don't see what TV could possibly suggest to Serena's opponents that would so much better than what some of these coaches are saying.
Click to expand...

Look to the AO final. That was no fallback coach's dismantling of Serena's game.

He always oscillates between two attitudes: when criticizing coaches or players like Radwanska, he usually paints the picture of an unassailable Serena whose game is so complete that nobody can do anything about it
Click to expand...

Utter nonsense. Unlike you, who has posted endless statements about "just handing Serena the trophy" (as a sweeping criticism of the WTA), I see players who have a game to trouble or defeat her, just as the player you seem to disrespect--Vika--took Serena to the edge at the the 2015 FO & Wimbledon, yet she gets no credit for her game, which is anything but the coaching textbook about facing Serena.
 
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
Look to the AO final. That was no fallback coach's dismantling of Serena's game.



Utter nonsense. Unlike you, who has posted endless statements about "just handing Serena the trophy" (as a sweeping criticism of the WTA), I see players who have a game to trouble or defeat her, just as the player you seem to disrespect--Vika--took Serena to the edge at the the 2015 FO & Wimbledon, yet she gets no credit for her game, which is anything but the coaching textbook about facing Serena.
Click to expand...

I think the coaching textbook about facing Serena has included everything the game has to offer. And playing like Vika gets you 3 victories out of 20 matches, not much better than other players who may or may not have followed any coaching textbook against her. "Just handing Serena the trophy" is still the default position: she still wins more often than any other player and is number 1 by some distance. Not many people would risk holding the opposite position (eg.: "Serena will almost certainly lose this match") because it simply never occurs to any sensible person (other than people who signal the danger of her losing every match she plays, as you do). If we were to choose 10 different matches where Serena plays against the field you'd never guess she would lose specifically to Vinci or Kerber. You simply blanket everyone as a danger and when she loses to one of an endless list of players you say "I told you so, she's not invincible".
 
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pilskova had better stats overall and she could not win I didn't see the match though

pilskova - azarenka
aces 17 - 4
df 2 - 10
1e serve in 62 - 59
w 43 - 33
ue 25 - 28

only plus point: azarenka was good at the net and pilskova not 17/20 vs 0/3
 
ScentOfDefeat said:
And playing like Vika gets you 3 victories out of 20 matches, not much better than other players who may or may not have followed any coaching textbook against her.
Click to expand...

Compared to? Vika has a game that challenges Serena, and the tenacity to back it up--more than any of the other top players, whether she wins the match or not.

"Just handing Serena the trophy" is still the default position: she still wins more often than any other player and is number 1 by some distance.
Not many people would risk holding the opposite position (eg.: "Serena will almost certainly lose this match") because it simply never occurs to any sensible person (other than people who signal the danger of her losing every match she plays, as you do).
Click to expand...

Which is nonsense. If your "just hand Serena the trophy" default position had any merit, she would have won the Grand Slam in 2015 (what better time for that default position to mean anything?), and followed it by winning AO 2016--neither event happened, even after some speculated that she would win AO '16, now that the assumed pressure of the Grand Slam was no longer an issue for her. Back to back at the sport's biggest events (where one would assume she is more invested a positive outcome) and your default did not come into play.

I will note that the play which took her out of USO '15 & AO '16 was not from the coaching textbook on how to defeat Serena, which is why I thought they were dangerous. No one sees Radwanska (for one example) as a threat.
 
I Am Finnish said:
pilskova had better stats overall and she could not win I didn't see the match though

pilskova - azarenka
aces 17 - 4
df 2 - 10
1e serve in 62 - 59
w 43 - 33
ue 25 - 28

only plus point: azarenka was good at the net and pilskova not 17/20 vs 0/3
Click to expand...
Vika has way more heart than Pliskova, that's the difference. She dug down deep and willed herself to win.
 
Last edited:
Fell asleep during first set of the Azarenka Pliskova match. Saw the triple double fault from Vika and I don't remember much after that. Disappointed to wake up and see that she won. None of the wta players I've rooted for have won a tournament since Belinda last year. :( I'm a jinx!
 
Vanhool said:
Vika has way more heart than Pliskova, that's the difference. She dug down deep and willed herself to win.
Click to expand...

Victoria also draws a lot of forced errors from her opponents which doesn't show up on the stat sheet. That along with her fighting spirit which helped on the big points got her through this match.

Her service needs to improve significantly versus Serena though or it will be a quick match. Hopefully it's another high quality match similar to their recent wimbledon encounter.
 
Tennis wizard said:
Pliskova into doubles final and almost made singles final, quite the week for her.... begs the question though why does pliskova never move to the net, if shes good at doubles than she must have some good net skills.
Click to expand...

That's a question I've asked about many similar players over the decades; its like they think the skills learned in doubles are only meant for doubles, which makes no sense at all.
 
I wonder what the odds are that one of them retires? Probably slim, but not impossible.

Not a fan of either, so won't watch but will be interested to read the match reports.

Guess- Williams in 3, with Azarenka blowing a lead.
 
PDJ said:
I wonder what the odds are that one of them retires? Probably slim, but not impossible.

Not a fan of either, so won't watch but will be interested to read the match reports.

Guess- Williams in 3, with Azarenka blowing a lead.
Click to expand...

I'll watch, though I share your opinion. I have a fever, so there's nothing much to do except passively enjoy two bullies trying to outbully each other. :)
 
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I know that Serena has never been double bagel in singles or doubles play while she was in the WTA tour! Does not surprise at all!
 
Harry_Wild said:
I know that Serena has never been double bagel in singles or doubles play while she was in the WTA tour! Does not surprise at all!
Click to expand...
Nor Evert. But she did beat at least two former no.1s 0&0 (Navratilova and Austin). Has Williams? I've no idea?
 
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