2016 Miami Open WTA Premier Mandatory

Who will win?

  • Kerber

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Muguruza

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Halep

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Suarez Navarro

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Bencic

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Kvitova

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    19
  • Poll closed .

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Whats insane is that Vika has minimal points to defend. No points, yes no points to defend in April while Kerber has 2 Premier titles (900+ points).
Even in May, all she has to defend is 3R Madrid points (120 points), QF Rome points (190 points) and 3R French Open points (130 points). Fairly safe to say she'll probably defend those and maybe go deep in those tournaments. She could be top 3 very soon!

Aga also has minimal points to defend, SF (110 points) in Katowice in April and that's all, in May, 3R Madrid (120 points) and lost 1R French Open.

Serena has no points in April to defend but don't think she's playing anything. In May just SF Madrid (390 points), 3R Rome (105 points) and then French Open (2000 points)

Muguruza has 85 points in April from 2 small tournaments, in May she has 2R points in Madrid (65 points) and then QF points French Open (430 points).

Not much to defend at the top. Moreso ranks 7-20. Kvitova has 1000 in Madrid, Sharapova has 900 in Rome and 350 in Madrid, Suarez has 585 in Rome and 215 in Madrid, Halep has 350 in Rome, Kuznetsova 650 in Madrid
 
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fundrazer

G.O.A.T.
Yeah. She might try a tad too hard to be cool, hip...whatever. Just don't dab anymore Vika, and go back to wearing skirts.
One thing with her is that I think she has a difficult time understanding that people genuinely do not like her banshee wailing. I remember in one of her press conferences she complained about people talking about it rather than her tennis. Newsflash. It is hard to watch you play with your extremely loud "WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" noises that basically extend until your opponent is hitting the ball. It's definitely gamesmanship stuff, and it makes some of her matches unwatchable for me.
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Hmm I don't know. I think the French is Serena's and the US Open as well. Wimbledon will be interesting, kinda expecting Serena to lose in early round or QF. Giving Radwanska or someone else a chance at vulturing the title

Based on what exactly? You think Serena has a better chance to win the FO than she does Wimbledon?

I think the FO is wide open for the women this year.
 
One thing with her is that I think she has a difficult time understanding that people genuinely do not like her banshee wailing. I remember in one of her press conferences she complained about people talking about it rather than her tennis. Newsflash. It is hard to watch you play with your extremely loud "WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" noises that basically extend until your opponent is hitting the ball. It's definitely gamesmanship stuff, and it makes some of her matches unwatchable for me.

Doubt it has anything to do with her wailing. Sharapova is even worse and she is very popular nonetheless.

I think Vika is disliked somewhat do to the fact she is very intense person on court and also quite confrontational. She is not afraid to speak her mind to anyone, from opponents, to umpires to ballboys. Serena is similar and also draws a lot of hate for this. I also think Vika tries too hard to be popular which can make her seem disingenuous (it sure as hell is awkward, like a Judd Apatow film, except in reality).

I don't really agree with the hate though. In interviews and off the court in general Vika comes across as a nice and pretty generous individual (she always has time for her fans and frequently participates in kids days and such). She is a fierce competitor and I'm glad she is finally back in good form.
 

PDJ

G.O.A.T.
One thing with her is that I think she has a difficult time understanding that people genuinely do not like her banshee wailing. I remember in one of her press conferences she complained about people talking about it rather than her tennis. Newsflash. It is hard to watch you play with your extremely loud "WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" noises that basically extend until your opponent is hitting the ball. It's definitely gamesmanship stuff, and it makes some of her matches unwatchable for me.
I agree with this 100% (or in Serena Williams logic, 300%).
Her tennis could be the most scintillating ever, but the noise is unbearable.
Azarenza could be Mother Theresa off court but the noise is unbearable.
And I feel similarly about Sharapova et al.
Life is too short to watch sustained matches. I can stomach it for highlights on YouTube and that's it.
 

ScentOfDefeat

G.O.A.T.
And whatever people say about grunting or wailing, it's certainly not "natural". It's a recent phenomenon in tennis, you'd never hear players screaming while playing a point before the 70's or early 80's. Granted, you could hear it on serve (McEnroe is a good example), but it never lasted much longer than the instant the ball hit the racquet.
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
And whatever people say about grunting or wailing, it's certainly not "natural". It's a recent phenomenon in tennis, you'd never hear players screaming while playing a point before the 70's or early 80's. Granted, you could hear it on serve (McEnroe is a good example), but it never lasted much longer than the instant the ball hit the racquet.
Well Jimmy Connors did it, even said it in his memoirs "Connors says he may not have been the first player to grunt while playing, but he was the highest-profile player to do so. It wasn’t meant as a distraction, but he says it was simply the outcome of how he’d been taught to breathe on the court. Connors says that, although he tried to breathe mostly through his nose, opening his mouth allowed him to exhale sharply as he exploded into a shot"

Did some googling about it the other day and came across this great article which blamed the rise of grunting on coach Nick Bollettieri. He's known for being coaches at one point of several prominent grunters. Seles (who is said to be the first major female to grunt), Sharapova, Williams sisters, Agassi. Apparently Nick Bollettieri's academy openly taught students loud breathing exercises and such. Ryan Harrison commented on how young girls at the academy scream way too loud at the academy.
 

ScentOfDefeat

G.O.A.T.
Well Jimmy Connors did it, even said it in his memoirs "Connors says he may not have been the first player to grunt while playing, but he was the highest-profile player to do so. It wasn’t meant as a distraction, but he says it was simply the outcome of how he’d been taught to breathe on the court. Connors says that, although he tried to breathe mostly through his nose, opening his mouth allowed him to exhale sharply as he exploded into a shot"

Did some googling about it the other day and came across this great article which blamed the rise of grunting on coach Nick Bollettieri. He's known for being coaches at one point of several prominent grunters. Seles (who is said to be the first major female to grunt), Sharapova, Williams sisters, Agassi. Apparently Nick Bollettieri's academy openly taught students loud breathing exercises and such. Ryan Harrison commented on how young girls at the academy scream way too loud at the academy.

Yes, well, I guess I was trying to point out that it went from being an exception to almost becoming the norm. And Connors' grunts are like music compared to players like Michelle Larcher de Brito, Teliana Pereira, Schiavone and Errani, Sharapova, Vesnina and Azarenka. I guess these modern academies who produce players in conveyor belts seem to promote this kind of behavior, as if screaming was related to your level of commitment. And when there's a lot of players fighting for success, and this becomes a habit, they'll all tend to scream to "outperform" each other in terms of displaying their commitment. Whatever it is, I find it disturbing.

I understand how breathing is an important part of any sport, but I highly doubt grunting makes it any better. Wailing requires an extra effort that is not needed when you're breathing normally. There are muscles set in motion when you scream. If anything, it seems to hinder - or at least mess with - normal breathing. I think it's related to getting into a rhythm in a rally. It's gamesmanship because, in a way, it (artificially) imposes your rhythm on the other player.
 
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Man of steel

Hall of Fame
Based on what exactly? You think Serena has a better chance to win the FO than she does Wimbledon?

I think the FO is wide open for the women this year.
Yet in the last 4 years most of the clay titles have been won by serena or sharapova. Now that meldopova is out serena is really the only favourite for the FO
 
I agree with this 100% (or in Serena Williams logic, 300%).
Her tennis could be the most scintillating ever, but the noise is unbearable.
Azarenza could be Mother Theresa off court but the noise is unbearable.
And I feel similarly about Sharapova et al.
Life is too short to watch sustained matches. I can stomach it for highlights on YouTube and that's it.
Why 300% in Serena's case? She doesn't even always grunt. In fact, she can go several matches without grunting. But, for you, it's 300% in her case, and 100% in Vika's, who I'm pretty sure has never played a match - not one - without grunting as she does - all the way through, right from the first point to the very last.

You could try to set your Serena dislike every now and then. It's okay to do that. We won't hold it against you.
 

Vanhool

Hall of Fame
Why 300% in Serena's case? She doesn't even always grunt. In fact, she can go several matches without grunting. But, for you, it's 300% in her case, and 100% in Vika's, who I'm pretty sure has never played a match - not one - without grunting as she does - all the way through, right from the first point to the very last.

You could try to set your Serena dislike every now and then. It's okay to do that. We won't hold it against you.
He said "in Serena Williams logic," so I think he is mocking her intellence or logic in this case, for no relevant reason other than trolling. At least that's how I read it.

But while we're on the subject, have you noticed how Serena often tries to keep a lid on the grunting until the situation gets too tense or difficult for her.....except when she plays Sharapova or other big time grunters? It almost seems like when Maria starts up, Serena is either thinking "two can play at that game," or "screw it, why should I hold back?" Cracks me up.
 

boredone3456

G.O.A.T.
Vika completes the double...congrats to her. A rare feat and well earned for her....I think she's back and if she keeps this going she'll win a major this year.
 

PDJ

G.O.A.T.
Why 300% in Serena's case? She doesn't even always grunt. In fact, she can go several matches without grunting. But, for you, it's 300% in her case, and 100% in Vika's, who I'm pretty sure has never played a match - not one - without grunting as she does - all the way through, right from the first point to the very last.

You could try to set your Serena dislike every now and then. It's okay to do that. We won't hold it against you.
Levi I think you should actually read what Serena herself said - along the lines of players play "300%" better when they play her.
which is in context in my post.
Your interpretation is wrong.
And my dislike for Serena is consistent. You could learn from that given your swinging opinion of her.
 

skyline

Legend
Yet in the last 4 years most of the clay titles have been won by serena or sharapova. Now that meldopova is out serena is really the only favourite for the FO

Unless she gains patience for extended rallies and collects herself mentally all around, she's no favorite. I agree with whoever said the FO is up for grabs this year. I have no idea who I'd bet on.

I always thought Kerber had a fine game for clay, but she never accomplished much at the FO. I similarly feel like Simona's style should have gotten her far, and it did in 2014, but I'd never bet on her winning that, or any other, major (though I hope she will - I like Simona). She simply seems to lack the champion mentality.
 

Mr.Lob

G.O.A.T.
So If Vika doesn't win this, she's "just another member of the pack"? The fact that no one has pulled off the double since '05...

Looks like Vika took that next step to separate herself from the pack. She's currently a solid #2 in my book. Doesn't do that well on clay, but neither did Sugarpova. She's worked hard, gotten in good shape, confidence growing... one more big win and she's there.
 

spystud

Talk Tennis Guru
Honest question... If Vika lost today, would she not still be your current solid #2? WAY too reactionary for my tastes.
 

insideguy

G.O.A.T.
Honest question... If Vika lost today, would she not still be your current solid #2? WAY too reactionary for my tastes.
I think she is now. But vika like many in the wta sort of has a history of going on walkabouts both physical and mental. She could end up in tibet with monks in another month. I have to see more
 
And my dislike for Serena is consistent. You could learn from that given your swinging opinion of her.
That's understandable, as Brother Levi is in training to become a lawyer. He'll argue any position! :D

Am I not allowed to be ticked off with the players I support? Do I have to be happy with my favourites all the time? Serena does stuff that frustrates me sometimes. But that doesn't mean I should completely wash my hands of her? You probably think I should. You probably think everyone should dislike Serena; just a single collective of Serena haters - oh, I'm sorry you don't like that word ("haters"), PDJ. Serena dislikers.
 
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Mr.Lob

G.O.A.T.
Am I not allowed to be ticked off with the players I support? Do I have to be happy with my favourites all the time? Serena does stuff that frustrates me sometimes. But that doesn't mean I should completely wash my hands of her? You probably think I should. You probably think everyone should dislike Serena; just a single collective of Serena haters - oh, I'm sorry you don't like that word ("haters"), PDJ. Serena dislikers.

LOL. You troll them one day, then kiss their rear the next.:rolleyes:

Here's an example of one of your bipolar threads hating on Serena.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/inde...s-coming-from-a-fan-well-a-former-fan.545337/

Oh, but NOW you're a fan... again?
 
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LOL. You troll them one day, then kiss their rear the next.:rolleyes:

I troll "them"? "Them"? "Them", as in my favourite players? I didn't know Serena and Rafa were users on TTW.

Here's an example of one of your bipolar threads hating on Serena.
Yeah, let's all just trivialise bipolar disorder by using it as an insult. It's not like it's a real mental disorder that some unfortunate souls have to live with, or something.

Oh, but NOW you're a fan... again?
Short answer? Yes, I am... again. Deal with it. :cool:
 
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Mr.Lob

G.O.A.T.
And yet another post from Brother Levi:

"Her (Serena) attitude on court and off. It's just unbecoming of a champion. Petulance, histrionics and laziness. Not traits I like in a player I support. It's gotten worse as of late. Before, you could say it's because she's got fire in her belly. Not anymore.

Ignore list: every single Fed fan!"

Your anti- Serena rant seems pretty strong. Why the change of heart counselor?
 
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PDJ

G.O.A.T.
Levi_AckermanLegend
Joined:
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Messages:
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Location:
London, United Kingdom
Levi_Ackerman, Sep 30, 2015Report

When did you become a former fan? After the 2015 US Open final?
After the US Open SF. I gave it a lot of thought but I can't support someone like her anymore

The above is more evidence against the wishy washy nature of Brother Levi. :eek:
Levi said to me recently "I never give him the benefit of doubt".
I think it's all too obvious that I have in the past. A mistake, that won't be replicated.

I appreciated your post.
 

PDJ

G.O.A.T.
And yet another post from Brother Levi:

"Her (Serena) attitude on court and off. It's just unbecoming of a champion. Petulance, histrionics and laziness. Not traits I like in a player I support. It's gotten worse as of late. Before, you could say it's because she's got fire in her belly. Not anymore.

Ignore list: every single Fed fan!"

Your anti- Serena rant seems pretty strong. Why the change of heart counselor?
Levi being "ticked off" with Serena Williams:

"Word on the ether is she may not play again this season because she is so disappointed with that US Open loss.

Gimme a break! If it meant that much to her, she should have brought your A-game! She got what she deserved for underestimating her opponents.

She's so petulant. There's only so much of her antics a person can tolerate before he/she begins to loathe her, and this is it for me. She's got some major growing up to do.

Here's the link to thearticle:http://m.bleacherreport.com/article...-star-should-take-time-off-after-us-open-loss"
---------------
Someone else appears to need to grow up.
Thanks for posting the link. It made for amusing reading. VERY.

Levi doesn't like the word "hate", he prefers "loathe"........
:)
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Azarenka will probably win 1-2 slam this year. Current Aza >> Current Serena.

Right now, that is not an unreasonable prediction. I know some around here cannot stand Vika, so that emotion shapes their view of her game, but she is a serious, talented player who has won majors. She knows her position as the leader of the next generation and cannot be underestimated.

Hmm I don't know. I think the French is Serena's and the US Open as well. Wimbledon will be interesting, kinda expecting Serena to lose in early round or QF. Giving Radwanska or someone else a chance at vulturing the title

The FO? I'm not sure. Serena has played well there in recent years, but I think she's in a vulnerable place right now, and I'm not certain what that vulnerability is--other than it is enough to allow a player with court sense (and that included the otherwise lumbering, disinterested Kuznetsova) to disrupt her game.

In any case, we will wait and see, but regarding 70後's prediction for Vika--at the moment, she must be the one to fear on tour. Vika--knowing the bias she suffers from those who are still hostile toward her for "daring" to not bow down to Sharapova (see their history), uses that as fuel to live up to her world class talent.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
And whatever people say about grunting or wailing, it's certainly not "natural". It's a recent phenomenon in tennis, you'd never hear players screaming while playing a point before the 70's or early 80's. Granted, you could hear it on serve (McEnroe is a good example), but it never lasted much longer than the instant the ball hit the racquet.

Oh, please. I was there in person to hear hypocritical Navratilova's "uuaamph!" when returning, Connors' loud growl when serving, McEnroe (as you noted), Courier's "strain," Becker, Seles, Mary Pierce, et al. The argument against noise is a fake "cultural" attack from some in the PTB (of all people) and a small number of so-called "fans" who still think tennis is some country club sport. ...and they wonder why it still struggles to break free of that pampered, isolationist prison.
 

PDJ

G.O.A.T.
Oh, please. I was there in person to hear hypocritical Navratilova's "uuaamph!" when returning, Connors' loud growl when serving, McEnroe (as you noted), Courier's "strain," Becker, Seles, Mary Pierce, et al. The argument against noise is a fake "cultural" attack from some in the PTB (of all people) and a small number of so-called "fans" who still think tennis is some country club sport. ...and they wonder why it still struggles to break free of that pampered, isolationist prison.
Most of the names you quoted are NOT late 70s/early 80s.
@ScentOfDefeat point remains valid.
 

ScentOfDefeat

G.O.A.T.
Oh, please. I was there in person to hear hypocritical Navratilova's "uuaamph!" when returning, Connors' loud growl when serving, McEnroe (as you noted), Courier's "strain," Becker, Seles, Mary Pierce, et al. The argument against noise is a fake "cultural" attack from some in the PTB (of all people) and a small number of so-called "fans" who still think tennis is some country club sport. ...and they wonder why it still struggles to break free of that pampered, isolationist prison.

Incidentally, I don't see how grunting necessarily equates with being a commoner and why it should be defended as such. We'd do much better if we rescued what people in general consider to be decent enough behavior (and that includes some of the mild grunters you listed) from the conventional prisons of "high class" and "low class", that are both used one against the other in order to create artificial gulfs in terms of legitimacy and power. You are now taking the side of the "commoner" against the "country-club" elite while still accepting the prejudiced notion (created ages ago by the elites) that commoners are loud, brash and obnoxious, and that this is a virtue in itself.
 

skyline

Legend
To be fair, wasn't Aga's upper arm/shoulder taped during Miami? I seem to recall seeing it. But I do agree it sounds fishy. You'd think she'd be a bit more interested in defending her Katowice points at least, given her battle for number 2 with Kerber.
 

skyline

Legend
The FO? I'm not sure. Serena has played well there in recent years, but I think she's in a vulnerable place right now, and I'm not certain what that vulnerability is--other than it is enough to allow a player with court sense (and that included the otherwise lumbering, disinterested Kuznetsova) to disrupt her game.

She's definitely in a vulnerable place. My only question is whether that's all it is - whether it's just mental or whether she's also having physical troubles. If it's the former alone, I have to believe she can, and will, find her way.

She has simply got to summon the patience to hang in rallies past four-five shots if she intends to do anything at the FO at all. It's been so painful to watch her impatiently spray the ball out of court just to end a point.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Most of the names you quoted are NOT late 70s/early 80s.
@ScentOfDefeat point remains valid.

You are so off the mark. The point is that grunting/yelling is nothing new. Scent of Defeat is harping on a negative about today's players made utterly false by history. The only "problem" is the country club mentality which has hurt the sport.
 

ScentOfDefeat

G.O.A.T.
You are so off the mark. The point is that grunting/yelling is nothing new. Scent of Defeat is harping on a negative about today's players made utterly false by history. The only "problem" is the country club mentality which has hurt the sport.

You're contradicting yourself. On the one hand you say grunting has always been part of the sport. I can agree with that only to a certain extent, because we can't exactly go back in time past Connors to prove that. But even admitting this is true, it's certainly not true that it was widespread and almost the norm, as it is today, nor that, in the worst cases, it reached the decibels we're witnessing today. Just watch videos prior to the 90's in the women's game and you'll see that the phenomenon has increased, not decreased, since Seles. Growth is usually the sign that a certain phenomenon wasn't there before (or was there in a very rudimentary, almost negligible form) and became larger in time. But then you say the problem lies in the "country club mentality", which, judging by what you're saying, implies that there was a time when nobody grunted - and then came the barbarians with their obnoxious behavior, ruining everything. Which one is it?
 
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PDJ

G.O.A.T.
You are so off the mark. The point is that grunting/yelling is nothing new. Scent of Defeat is harping on a negative about today's players made utterly false by history. The only "problem" is the country club mentality which has hurt the sport.
I merely pointed out you were factually incorrect. Pierce, Courier, Seles et al were NOT professional tennis players in the late 70's/early 80s.
Maybe you should brush up on your tennis history.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
You're contradicting yourself.

What's wrong with you? If its always been a part of the sport in one way or another, then there is no contradiction.

It is not a problem. The problem is a small group of people with misguided ideas on what tennis is, since there's no evidence from attendance, or from the sport's biggest audience--the TV audience--that says noise is a problem hurting the sport.

I would be most interested in seeing any concrete evidence saying the sport is being harmed by noise.


But then you say the problem lies in the "country club mentality", which, judging by what you're saying, implies that there was a time when nobody grunted - and then came the barbarians with their obnoxious behavior, ruining everything. Which one is it?

Sigh. The country club mentality is a sub-cultural aberration--not the mainstream. They are--in effect--the isolationist tennis version of Tea Party--who have always resented the greater body they (much to their resentment) are a part of, and they ranted about any number of things that were not then--or now a detriment to the sport.

Again, this insignificant group of ranters need to do one--and only one thing: produce any concrete evidence saying the sport is being harmed by noise.

...and I will ignore the rest of you pal's posts, since he's deliberately ignoring historical references that show a pattern of action in order to play his typical flaming games--as seen with his posts against another member on this page.
 
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