2016 Monte-Carlo Masters Final - [5] Nadal vs. [13] Monfils

Who?

  • Nadal in 2

    Votes: 28 41.8%
  • Nadal in 3

    Votes: 21 31.3%
  • Monfils in 2

    Votes: 5 7.5%
  • Monfils in 3

    Votes: 13 19.4%

  • Total voters
    67

Antonio Puente

Hall of Fame
Nah, Nadal and everybody else is still way behind Novack. We can just hand him the remaining 3 titles and get on with our lives.

At this stage, of course Nadal is behind Djoker. Too many injuries. Too many miles on the body. That said, if Djoker doesn't make the final, it doesn't
matter. If Djoker's level of play dips, Nadal showed this week that he can still win slams.
 

insideguy

G.O.A.T.
But I feel like it's harder to dominate for longer term.
Shorter and deeper domination.

It will be harder to see long term 6+ year domination as Sampras, Laver or Gonzalez.
Maybe I dont know. You are probably right on that. I cant really put an age limit on these guys anymore. I mean most of the top ten is over 28 if not all of them. And I think 6 of the top ten women were born in the 80s and there are two of them just out of the top ten who were. Hell one of them is retired and still number 12. The aging of tennis is happening right in front of our eyes. Every day.
 

Adv. Edberg

Legend
At this stage, of course Nadal is behind Djoker. Too many injuries. Too many miles on the body. That said, if Djoker doesn't make the final, it doesn't
matter. If Djoker's level of play dips, Nadal showed this week that he can still win slams.

Nah, he beat Thiem (a match Thiem should have won) otherwise he didn't beat any good players.
 

ultradr

Legend
Maybe I dont know. You are probably right on that. I cant really put an age limit on these guys anymore. I mean most of the top ten is over 28 if not all of them. And I think 6 of the top ten women were born in the 80s and there are two of them just out of the top ten who were. Hell one of them is retired and still number 12. The aging of tennis is happening right in front of our eyes. Every day.

I know. Slam finalist ages are as old as those of 60s and 70s right now!

If someone does 6+ year domination, I think we will have a player with final sum of 20+ slams.

Ken rosewall won 25 majors. 10 of them after 30. 60s and 70s stuff. :D
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
I doubt he can skip Barcelona since that and Madrid are his home country tournament! I sure he want to rest but he may say he is tired and Barcelona will understand! After all you can continue playing tennis without a rest. after winning a tournament and go in three days again! Too much to soon!
but doesn't he have some time off after Barcelona ?? and also if he plays Barcelona and Not win that one,,,,,,then People will just say ....RAFA is playing bad again......stuff like that..
 

insideguy

G.O.A.T.
I know. Slam finalist ages are as old as those of 60s and 70s right now!

If someone does 6+ year domination, I think we will have a player with final sum of 20+ slams.

Ken rosewall won 25 majors. 10 of them after 30. 60s and 70s stuff. :D
Yea and I dont see a any trend that its going to turn around. Alot of tennis fans blame the young guys but I dont. Many of them are saying oh these guys 21 to 26 suck. I dont think they are going to be super happy with they guys right behind them either. Cause these dudes who suck now at 21 to 26 are the ones who are going to be winning when the old generation retire.
 

sbengte

G.O.A.T.
I am a big Rafa fan but come on...he failed to serve out sets like 3 times this week, failed to hold on to break leads even more times.
He played well, let's not go crazy.

Well, the truth is that the clay field as we've just seen is so crap that he can afford to play like crap himself and still win , when the Djoker is away. And all this momentum from MC and Barca will actually propel him towards playing much much better when he actually gets to face Djoker in Rome/Madrid/RG.
 

sbengte

G.O.A.T.
but doesn't he have some time off after Barcelona ?? and also if he plays Barcelona and Not win that one,,,,,,then People will just say ....RAFA is playing bad again......stuff like that..

Who is he going to lose to in Barcelona ? Nishikori ? Ferrer ? LOL.
 

tacou

G.O.A.T.
Well, the truth is that the clay field as we've just seen is so crap that he can afford to play like crap himself and still win , when the Djoker is away. And all this momentum from MC and Barca will actually propel him towards playing much much better when he actually gets to face Djoker in Rome/Madrid/RG.

Who is he going to lose to in Barcelona ? Nishikori ? Ferrer ? LOL.

Playing like crap until he reaches Novak does not sound like a good path to "momentum," and it in no way proves he's ready to win another major.
Also, Nishikori & Ferrer > Cuevas & Thiem (though Thiem is fast improving).

But whatever, like I said I am a fan and would love to see him go lossless from now through Wimbledon. But nothing I saw today or this week makes me think that's possible
 

sbengte

G.O.A.T.
Playing like crap until he reaches Novak does not sound like a good path to "momentum," and it in no way proves he's ready to win another major.
Also, Nishikori & Ferrer > Cuevas & Thiem (though Thiem is fast improving).

But Novak isn't' playing Barca , is he ? When Novak comes back from his nice little break and is a bit rusty and doesn't have enough clay matches under his belt, guess who'll be ready to pounce ? Yes, the MC and Barca champion.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
I found that match hard to analyse - I feel Rafa should have won more easily and played it quite safe at times. Or maybe I'm not giving enough credit to Gael?
Rafa was playing it safe because it was working and wearing down Gael. The first set should not have been close except for some Clutchfils play. Monfils upped his game and energy level in a last gasp in the 2nd set to break Rafa. Monfils managed his play and the match very well, he just doesn't have the stamina to win a third set against Nadal.
 

irishnadalfan1983

Hall of Fame
Rafa was playing it safe because it was working and wearing down Gael. The first set should not have been close except for some Clutchfils play. Monfils upped his game and energy level in a last gasp in the 2nd set to break Rafa. Monfils managed his play and the match very well, he just doesn't have the stamina to win a third set against Nadal.

Agreed - I would have liked to see Rafa go for it a bit more shall we say - however clearly the tactic worked but I do feel he let Monfils into the match and that can come back to bite you.

I think I was more impressed with his win against Murray.
 

irishnadalfan1983

Hall of Fame
I am a big Rafa fan but come on...he failed to serve out sets like 3 times this week, failed to hold on to break leads even more times.
He played well, let's not go crazy.

Well said - today I was bit disappointed at how he played - however he just needed to get over the line and today was simply about winning/increasing confidence and hopefully we might see a more dominant Rafa shall we say.
 

Krish872007

Talk Tennis Guru
Missed the end of the second set and half of the third, but delighted that Rafa finally got this win - it's a big win.
Not sure why people are still disappointed - he's won a Masters 1000 after 2 full years and has had a comprehensive, extended hitting session with The Guru. How can this not be a good sign going forward (at least mentally speaking)?
 

Antonio Puente

Hall of Fame
I am a big Rafa fan but come on...he failed to serve out sets like 3 times this week, failed to hold on to break leads even more times.
He played well, let's not go crazy.

There's nothing crazy about it. If Djoker's level of play drops, if he's upset, Nadal can win a slam, even at this level. The competition is putrid. If Nadal can win this tournament, he can win a slam. Stanimal, Murray - these are the players he would have to beat. It wouldn't exactly take a magical performance on his part.
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
There's nothing crazy about it. If Djoker's level of play drops, if he's upset, Nadal can win a slam, even at this level. The competition is putrid. If Nadal can win this tournament, he can win a slam. Stanimal, Murray - these are the players he would have to beat. It wouldn't exactly take a magical performance on his part.

I assume you're only talking about RG right now because right now that is the only slam that Nadal might win at this level, and that is still a big might. I wouldn't be saying "slams" in the plural.
 

tacou

G.O.A.T.
There's nothing crazy about it. If Djoker's level of play drops, if he's upset, Nadal can win a slam, even at this level. The competition is putrid. If Nadal can win this tournament, he can win a slam. Stanimal, Murray - these are the players he would have to beat. It wouldn't exactly take a magical performance on his part.

Nadal lost in the first round of the only major this year to Fernando Verdasco. Novak had nothing to do with it. He's also lost to Cuevas and Thiem on clay.
Also, this was Novak's first legit loss of the season. There is nothing to suggest his level has dropped.

Winning Monte Carlo is a good thing. I'm happy. But it is NOT winning a slam.
 

tacou

G.O.A.T.
Well said - today I was bit disappointed at how he played - however he just needed to get over the line and today was simply about winning/increasing confidence and hopefully we might see a more dominant Rafa shall we say.

Exactly. Winning this tournament is great for Nadal, both historically and in terms of his confidence right now.
But to say he's "back" or playing at a level to win a major is incorrect in my view.
 

irishnadalfan1983

Hall of Fame

Meles

Bionic Poster
There's nothing crazy about it. If Djoker's level of play drops, if he's upset, Nadal can win a slam, even at this level. The competition is putrid. If Nadal can win this tournament, he can win a slam. Stanimal, Murray - these are the players he would have to beat. It wouldn't exactly take a magical performance on his part.
Your sentiments are correct except for the bold part. Nobody has ever beaten Nadal on clay when he's near the top of his game. This will be an extremely competitive year on clay. Ferrer is the only one at the top declining (Berdych might be too, but both are very strong on clay for their careers.) Yes some of these players are unlikely to win the French Open, but the path to theses titles is a greuling one and the likes of Monfils, Thiem, Tsonga, Nishikori, Wawrinka, Gasquet, and Federer are all capable of pulling off an upset in a match. Nadal seems capable of grinding through these players even at 90-95% of his top game, but Djokovic may not treasure the experience.
 

Benhur

Hall of Fame
But Novak isn't' playing Barca , is he ? When Novak comes back from his nice little break and is a bit rusty and doesn't have enough clay matches under his belt, guess who'll be ready to pounce ? Yes, the MC and Barca champion.
Please keep in mind that the word Barça in Spain is only used as a familiar name for football club Barcelona. It is NOT used to refer to the city of Barcelona or sports competitions organized in that city, or anything else. Only the football club. Nobody in Spain calls the city Barça.
 

Antonio Puente

Hall of Fame
I assume you're only talking about RG right now because right now that is the only slam that Nadal might win at this level, and that is still a big might. I wouldn't be saying "slams" in the plural.

Again, it goes back to the competition. Outside of Djoker there is no one. He beat Murray the last time they met on a hard court at the WTF. He beat Stan twice on hard courts at the end of last year. If Djoker goes down, who couldn't he beat? Sure, Nadal is inconsistent at this stage, but the competition is so poor that, even at this level, he is still capable of going on a roll and winning slams.
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
I think Rafa really earned that title. His draw was very tough. Very dramatic way to get back to top form.
I also think it's good for Novak because he needs a serious challenger not to get complacent. He's gonna need to come up with something very special now if he wants to a- keep the head to head edge and b- regain the master title record. We all know that when Nadal gets on a roll, he becomes close to unbeatable.
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
Again, it goes back to the competition. Outside of Djoker there is no one. He beat Murray the last time they met on a hard court at the WTF. He beat Stan twice on hard courts at the end of last year. If Djoker goes down, who couldn't he beat? Sure, Nadal is inconsistent at this stage, but the competition is so poor that, even at this level, he is still capable of going on a roll and winning slams.

Your head is a bit up in the clouds today I'm afraid. How's he winning Wimbledon? That's not happening. How's he winning the USO when he's losing to Fognini and by the time the AO comes around next year Nadal's form is more likely to be gone than not. The man is almost 30 now. Expecting him to go "on a roll" and win slams in the plural is just unrealistic. Nadal is losing to "weak" competition. That's the point.

Not to mention that we don't yet know if he'll win RG. He's still more likely to lose there than he is not to. He didn't look great today. And this is all assuming he doesn't injure himself again.
 

mistik

Hall of Fame
Your head is a bit up in the clouds today I'm afraid. How's he winning Wimbledon? That's not happening. How's he winning the USO when he's losing to Fognini and by the time the AO comes around next year Nadal's form is more likely to be gone than not. The man is almost 30 now. Expecting him to go "on a roll" and win slams in the plural is just unrealistic. Nadal is losing to "weak" competition. That's the point.

Not to mention that we don't yet know if he'll win RG. He's still more likely to lose there than he is not to. He didn't look great today. And this is all assuming he doesn't injure himself again.
I hate it but agree with it.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
I think Rafa really earned that title. His draw was very tough. Very dramatic way to get back to top form.
I also think it's good for Novak because he needs a serious challenger not to get complacent. He's gonna need to come up with something very special now if he wants to a- keep the head to head edge and b- regain the master title record. We all know that when Nadal gets on a roll, he becomes close to unbeatable.
Lol, I think you're getting a little bit over excited if you think Novak needs to do something special to stay ahead of Nadal right now vero. Two years is a long time though so I can't say I blame you. ;)
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
michael-jackson-baile-dance-o.gif

 

Roddick85

Hall of Fame
Your head is a bit up in the clouds today I'm afraid. How's he winning Wimbledon? That's not happening. How's he winning the USO when he's losing to Fognini and by the time the AO comes around next year Nadal's form is more likely to be gone than not. The man is almost 30 now. Expecting him to go "on a roll" and win slams in the plural is just unrealistic. Nadal is losing to "weak" competition. That's the point.

Not to mention that we don't yet know if he'll win RG. He's still more likely to lose there than he is not to. He didn't look great today. And this is all assuming he doesn't injure himself again.

Totally right.

I understand everyone is happy he won MC, heck even I, I was glad to see him win as I hope he turns things around. However, if we remain realistic and look at how he won the tournament, he did so not by dominating the field but by working extremely hard for every point and outlasting his opponents. This might work in a best of 3 sets event with moderate opposition, but to think he will be able to do the same for 7 matches in a best of 5 format is foolish. Fact is, Nadal's serve is still a liability like it was a couple of weeks ago, it's weak and breaks in key moments. He still has a hard time getting the proper depth or pace on the forehand. Sure his movement might have improved a bit, but this is clay we're talking about. To think that Nadal even has a chance at Wimbledon is looking at the future with rose tinted glasses. At the USO? Perhaps he's got better odds, but they are many better hard court players in front of him. Until Rafa fixes his serve and is able to properly close sets/matches, I will remain skeptical about his chances.
 
Top