Soul_Evisceration
Hall of Fame
Not to make excuses but he did had a grueling 3 setter match vs Kohlschreiber for the Munich title and both looked gassed at Madrid a few days later.
2016 Rome Masters - R2- Zverev vs Federer
- Thread starter Meles
- Start date
Urkezi
Semi-Pro
Pretty much this. Almost all of Rog's service games were more or less straight forward apart from the one he lost his serve in. On the contrary he looked threatening in the majority of Zverev's service games, big serve or not. It seemed he would win comfortably from pretty much the first time he broke Zverev. And it wasn't anything near a 100% Roger, his backhand was quite off, decision-making at times suspect and he was quite fortunate to win all those drop shots as several of them were poor.
On the other hand, his touch is there, you just don't lose that I guess. Still, he can improve pretty much everywhere so I hope he gets at least to the SF this tournament and prepare for a solid RG, mostly based on his draw. He is not winning any clay tournies though, that's for sure. The young Sascha will be great, but the road ahead is still long. Forehand, movement, some mileage and a bit of routine, and he'll get to no. 1 eventually.
As for the match against Thiem, I expect pretty much the same as today. A very watchable match with some great shots from both sides but Roger prevailing. It will be interesting to see how many drop shots Roger plays with Thiem standing so deep, and I wonder whose backhand will crack first. A must watch match in my book.
stringertom
Bionic Poster
(Knock knock)
N_N: Who's there!
Stringertom: Tom!
N_N: Tom Who?
Stringertom: Tommy Blaze! I ran out, do you have more of what you're smoking???
Roddick85
Hall of Fame
He did run into stronger opposition. It's one of the reasons why I wasn't as excited as others about his results in February. Winning a small 250/500 event with next to no opposition is very different than an MS-1000/Slam where the full roster is in action.
I agree, the loss to Del Potro was a bad one. But then again, all the players who lost to Del Potro since he came back should reflect as to why they lost to a guy with no backhand. No disrespect to JMDP who still has a heck of a forehand, but watching him play, it's clear he's not the same player he once was and the odds he'll be that player again are very slim.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
He is? I know Thiem is much higher in the rankings but is he "much better" than Zverev? I don't know man. All I know is that Federer dispatched of Thiem with ease in Brisbane earlier this year. I know Fed has been injured and away from the game and Thiem has improved since then but I am not sure what weapons Thiem has for a decent playing Federer. We'll see.
mellowyellow
Legend
Everyone that played that Sunday lost early in Madrid except for Busta, but he played Dimi so that was an unavoidable outlier...
stringertom
Bionic Poster
Another devotee of the bust a move on Dimitrough!
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
From play at Monte Carlo, I'd rate Fed higher, but Zverev looked awfully good against Baby Fed.
Anyone got the forecast for Rome? I am hearing of rain. And don't want to wake up hours early for this match to watch rain!
Who doesn't look good when playing Dimitrov?
Anyway, 17-time Slam champion in beats unproven youngster in straight sets shock, eh?
TruthIncarnate
New User
Missed the match. Federer was desperate for a win. Bad luck streak, confidence wavering. Did he cheer the kid's double faults? Fist pump unforced errors? Exude an aura of undeserved sense of accomplishment when/if the kid emotionally imploded? Did he make a strange sawing motion when he won? Just curious how this legend of the game conducted himself is all...
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Didn't see the match, but from I hear, Roger is in town to play. That certainly makes it much more interesting. I wonder if he is looking at that potential semi, and probably thinking that his opponent might be a little vulnerable after the preceding round.
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Is Nadal playing today ? (talking or real tennis, that is)
Krish872007
Talk Tennis Guru
Should be on in after the Konta-Vinci WTA match
TheMusicLover
G.O.A.T.
None of what you mention. Just his cool, collected self.
Pretty pleased with this victory though, as he should be.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Zverev played poorly overall and just served and returned poorly in first set. It was a sub par day. The Fed UEs were generally more of the forced variety. To me speed kills and Zverev did not look on his game to start the match and was just in a lot of trouble. The match was on much more even terms when Zverev started to return a little better. Zverev serves more around 70% and was probably in low 50s in the 2nd set. On clay, he'll have a chance against Fed if they play again this year.
Thiem's game is so off right now, that he would have to present a Nadal like matchup issue for Fed to stand a chance. Played like total garbage in the doubles today. Sousa broke him quite a few times today despite the lopsided match score.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Thiem is probably significantly better than Goffin overall on clay. Head to head Goffin may trouble Thiem some, but probably on clay Thiem would find a way even on average day.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Played poorly again Kohli and Delpo (Delpo probably matchup issue too.) Thiem has been quite erractic lately. Seems that the return of Gulbis to the team may not be a good thing.
TheMusicLover
G.O.A.T.
Zverev should really work hard on his serving, I think we can all agree on that. It's a weakness right now, and with his height, he should be able to do a lot better.
It should be his main focus for improvement imho. Will come in time I believe.
In all, I think Zverev was a bit overwhelmed at the occasion, certainly during that 1st set. The lack of experience was showing, but hey, the guy is still a teeniebopper!
As for "Fed's UEs being more of the forced variety", I just have to respectfully disagree. The way he lost his serve game was just absymal from Fed!error, there wasn't as much Zverev got to do there.
We'll have to wait and see. Things can change quickly, and if I have to believe all of the press about Fed not being sure to play this morning...
In any case, I hope for the both of them to show up in good form.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
What a shame that draw is. Z could have beaten a lot of players. But not Fed on their first encounter. Still can't believe all of Nadal, Fed and Djoko are on the same side. We need clay rankings. Because #5 for Rafa on clay makes no sense.
TruthIncarnate
New User
As expected. He acted in a manner commensurate with his status in the game. Taking notes, rafa?
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
It doesn't? That's news to me. Djokovic is way ahead of him. He's lost to Murray in back to back years in Madrid with a hard fought loss in MC. Wawrinka beat him last year in Rome and won RG. A fact you despise I know, but it is what it is. The only guy he's ahead of on clay right now is Federer, but that's hardly enough to say "We need clay rankings because ranking him at 5 makes no sense." Some might say it makes perfect sense considering the fact that he plays measly 250's while Federer and Djokovic played the 2014 and 2015 Dubai finals. Not only that, but he didn't win them when he was favoured to, losing to guys like Thiem, Cuevas, and Fognini. More than enough reason to rank him at 5.
Living in the past helps no one. Your statement would've been true just a few short years ago, but those years are long gone and they're not coming back.
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Eh? Gulbis was away from the team for like a month last year (not more) and has been back since last clay season. Thiem has won all of his five titles with Gulbis already back...
Sartorius
Hall of Fame
Reading Federer's post-match comments, analyzing how good or bad he played today seems largely meaningless. And I'm quite positive the overuse of drop-shots in this match is a direct reflection of the "cautious" (his words) mindset he had going in. He's not even sure he's going to play tomorrow. The main issue on his and his team's mind right now seems to be how the body is going to react.
Gary Duane
G.O.A.T.
Of course Novak is ahead of Nadal. He's ahead of everyone. But the fact is that after three 1000s, Novak has one on clay, and Nadal has one. That's all we know so far this year.
I'll remind you that Nadal has only been seeded #1 at RG three times, and one of those was in 2009. So RG has not done too well with seedings, and there is a problem with the huge gap between the clay season in one year and the next one.
mightyrick
Legend
Doesn't really matter. Like the rest of the up-and-coming tennis generation, Zverev isn't going to win any meaningful titles until he's probably 30 or 31 years old anyways.
Gary Duane
G.O.A.T.
It's too soon to say that Thiem is way better than Goffin. But Goffin's service game is weak. However, it has been terrible this year, and that's what is killing him.
I don't think Thiem has been tested enough yet against the best, so I'm optimistic but not yet convinced. I need to see more...
Meles
Bionic Poster
That is correct. Thiem has not won a tournament that Gulbis has played in. Conclusion; the UE bug is contagious.
Meles
Bionic Poster
31/2015 F Gstaad Clay Dominic Thiem David Goffin 7-5 6-2
On hard courts, Goffin would beat Thiem. Clay, Thiem wins. Gorfin is narrowly ahead of Thiem in the rankings at the moment, so they are very close.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Meles
Bionic Poster
Another yarn from Grandpa so he could get the morning match with another youngster.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Agree, but unfortunately the devil is in the details. It would take a radically different ranking system otherwise clay court specialists like Thiem might be in the top 4.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Zverev's serve has been improving a lot and its part of his surge up the rankings this year. There is little doubt it will get even better. Its hard to be experienced with Fed blitz of all new talent by definition. Its a unique rite of iniation that Fed seems to love administering. Fed rigging match times for alleged back problems is classic. Zverev is a tough competitor and he showed it, but in the end he just couldn't recover all the way from such an awful start.Zverev should really work hard on his serving, I think we can all agree on that. It's a weakness right now, and with his height, he should be able to do a lot better.
It should be his main focus for improvement imho. Will come in time I believe.
In all, I think Zverev was a bit overwhelmed at the occasion, certainly during that 1st set. The lack of experience was showing, but hey, the guy is still a teeniebopper!
As for "Fed's UEs being more of the forced variety", I just have to respectfully disagree. The way he lost his serve game was just absymal from Fed!error, there wasn't as much Zverev got to do there.
We'll have to wait and see. Things can change quickly, and if I have to believe all of the press about Fed not being sure to play this morning...
In any case, I hope for the both of them to show up in good form.
The Tennis TV replay of the Thiem vs Sousa match is down and they don't care enough to fix it so I'm flying a bit blind on Thiem's current form. Based on the stats for the match and watching Thiem in doubles; the first serve is in trouble (like 50% instead of average 66% on clay). Thiem destroyed Sousa in the return stats. Thiem seems to own the matchup with Sousa, so even though it appears Thiem won the last set 6-2 without losing serve, Thiem seems far from his best. I'm sure he'll up his game enough to make it respectable, but I see Federer in 2 as almost inevitable. Thiem has had a lackluster European clay swing to date.
If Thiem in his best imagnable form comes to play, this still is a very tough matchup because Thiem will likely have difficulty breaking Federer. The only hope is that Thiem's heavy clay game is at its heaviest (Nadal like) and Federer has trouble keeping the ball in the court.
Gary Duane
G.O.A.T.
Very hard to judge these players who are coming up fast - Thiem is making a move this year. And I hope you are right, because Thiem is one of the guys I'd like to see challenge the older players!
West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
I'd only agree with her IF she were willing to put Nadal outside the Top 8 for Wimby and the USO - his serve is terrible. But we both know she'd have a cow.
Fed got the job done. The drop shot clowning was in full effect. For those calling Zverev the Next Big Thing, you may have seen today why that won't happen (or won't be as 'big' as you think) - 6'6" (and is he done growing?) might be too big for today's game based on movement.
I just hope win, lose, or draw Fed doesn't foul up his back. I almost wish he'd show up tomorrow and default and say "I'll see everyone in Halle. Steal a few RG towels for me and put on a good show for the fans."
D
Deleted member 743561
Guest
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SpinDr.
Professional
Fed's thoughts on the match: "I was expecting to lose in straight sets today. That was the mindset going in, so to win in straights is actually a really big surprise to me. I played cautious, and I only decided after the warm-up that I was actually going to play. So for me it was a big match on many levels."
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Yes, Zverev is too bleeping tall. He wasn't fed growth hormones when he was growing up or anything, no way, couldn't be!
Despite his height, I do think he appears to have talent and a strong will to win so we will see where that takes him.
West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
Because I'm a realist? (and don't work for Nike, Wilson, Rolex, Mercedes, etc. and don't have a good reason for Fed to do the Human Billboard thing). Wimbledon is by far his best chance to win #18. IMHO that's what he should be focusing on.
Usually I'm as cynical as anyone and would agree. But 'Misha is 6'4". And they show his dad in the crowd and he looks like a mountain of a man.
D
Deleted member 743561
Guest
If it's his best chance, he's gonna need to keep the chains driving... not park his keister on the shelf. He'd get rusty. Gotta stay match tough at 35... plus, if he takes a month off, he might get cozy, and that's that. Think the home call is growing louder here.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Since last year, Wawa hasn't done much and if he continues to fare like he has this year, he's gonna drop down the rankings like a rock to the bottom of the ocean after RG. That's the only thing that keeps his ranking so high atm: his RG title. And he really doesn't look like he's in any kind of a form to defend it. He'll easily drop out of the top 10.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
I don't care about the names but whoever wins most matches on clay (and titles) would have to be ranked higher. For a player who won a master + a 500 (+ semi at 2nd master) to be ranked 5 is dumb, dumb, dumb. Fed has played like what ? 4 matches total on clay and he's seeded 2??? Everyone knows Fed isn't 2nd best player on clay and nowhere close. (Both Nadal and Murray should obviously been ranked above.)
ruerooo
Legend
He's got an eye on the Rio Olympics too, since singles gold is, like, the one prize he doesn't have yet that he wants.
But let him stay hungry. I'm a fan; I'm not trying to pull him off the tour. Let him play as long as he wants; I'll keep showing up.
I mean - how was the match billed -- "The Legend v. the Kid"?? We're not the only ones who're going to shed tears when Roger decides it's time to hang up the racquet. The sport's promoters are all going to wear black for at least a year.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Another victim of the Fed blitz.
Zverev is significantly faster than Del Potro. He will face challenges in the next few years if he bulks up too much, but the tenacity and power on tap will make for a very complete game with only a bit more physical maturity. Drop shot is Zverev's weakness so of course Fed used that shot. Fed needs to play. With a weak Nadal and suspect Djokovic, imagine what the Fed legacy might be with another French Open. With the right draw it could easily happen.
Meles
Bionic Poster
The cornered Stanimal seems to becoming aware of this and looks quite dangerous. His games stats on hard courts so far in 2016 are better than his career average. With losses to Kyrgios and Nadal on clay, its more bad luck with the draw. Rome will tell a lot. With such a cake draw, anything short of a SF and his fate may be as you fear.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Well by points stats, Fed is tied with Rafa for 2nd place on clay so far this year. For a surface other than hard courts you'd have to have a ranking over several years and that is no good. Cuevas has won two tournaments on clay this year, and then he loses to Mahut in Rome? Cuevas has great stats. The current ranking system would have to be the basis for any clay court rankings perhaps with some tweaks or weighting for clay, otherwise the Pellas, Cuevas, Almagros, and even Thiems of the world would be wildly over ranked.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Keep it moving Fed or they'll start piling dirt on top of you.
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
His height is less of a problem in today's game than it ever was in yesterday's game. Tall guys seem to move a bit better than in the past, for the most part.
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
Do you mean average points per tournament? Or percentage of points won? The latter doesn't matter, as it's not used in any ranking system. The final match results are all that counts. 7-6 0-6 7-6 is a win. 6-0 6-0 is a win. Both are equally wins.
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
Another victim of the Fed blitz.
I really doubt that. I think he's no greater than fifth favorite for Roland Garros, at best. And a pretty distant fifth. Stan James (bookmakers) put him equal fifth with Nishikori at 25-1 each. (Djokovic is 8-11, Nadal is 3-1, Murray 8-1, Wawrinka 12-1, and your favorite Thiem is seventh favorite at 40-1).
Meles
Bionic Poster
Sounds about right. Put Nadal, Wawa, and Djoko in the same half and let Fed deal with Murray if he makes the SF. Or put Fed with Djoko (Wawa, Murray, and Rafa other half) and maybe the year @Djokovic2011 will happen all over again at the French.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
I'm gonna bump it when Z wins a big one this year or next@veroniquem that's signature worthy.
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