2017 ATP Sudden Death League: Indian Wells

sosa09 said:
It wasn't cancelled, Thompson retired when he was 3-0 down in the third against Kukushkin.
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Kukushin isn't the person I bet against. I bet against Tursunov. When he cancelled, my pick was altered- as I bet on Thompson to beat Tursunov, not on him to beat Kukushin. Therefore, my pick should be void.
 
TripleATeam said:
Kukushin isn't the person I bet against. I bet against Tursunov. When he cancelled, my pick was altered- as I bet on Thompson to beat Tursunov, not on him to beat Kukushin. Therefore, my pick should be void.
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But you changed your pick after the match was over, so I don't know.

@Krish872007 what happens in this situation?
 
sosa09 said:
But you changed your pick after the match was over, so I don't know.

@Krish872007 what happens in this situation?
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I don't believe that I had to just instantly pick another player. I consider this very similar to a walkover, where a player drops out of the match before they play. In either case, winning or losing, you get to pick again, IIRC.
 
TripleATeam said:
I don't believe that I had to just instantly pick another player. I consider this very similar to a walkover, where a player drops out of the match before they play. In either case, winning or losing, you get to pick again, IIRC.
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Good luck with Fognini ANW :p. You should've let your BU do his job.
 
I'm not sure that's allowed, it's just bad luck on your part. If Thompson had won, you wouldn't need to change the pick. But now he lost you want to change the pick. Basically you get 2 chances. (I.e. If it were considered a 'walkover' then even if Thompson won the pick should be void and another pick should be used)
TripleATeam said:
I don't believe that I had to just instantly pick another player. I consider this very similar to a walkover, where a player drops out of the match before they play. In either case, winning or losing, you get to pick again, IIRC.
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enlightenment said:
I'm not sure that's allowed, it's just bad luck on your part. If Thompson had won, you wouldn't need to change the pick. But now he lost you want to change the pick. Basically you get 2 chances. (I.e. If it were considered a 'walkover' then even if Thompson won the pick should be void and another pick should be used)
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Not fair for him. Tursunov's ranked 554 whereas Kukushkin is No.90.
The pick should be voided in either case to pick another one instead. If it's not able to pick again (all matches are played already) or dont wanna change, BU is used.
Well, 1 more term need to be added in the rule.
 
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enlightenment said:
I'm not sure that's allowed, it's just bad luck on your part. If Thompson had won, you wouldn't need to change the pick. But now he lost you want to change the pick. Basically you get 2 chances. (I.e. If it were considered a 'walkover' then even if Thompson won the pick should be void and another pick should be used)
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No, if a player receives ANY sort of W/O, they must choose another player. I count this in the same vein- that if my match is cancelled, I should have to switch.

Imagine another scenario- The world #200 goes against the #4000 player. I bet $20 on the #200, but then the match is cancelled. The #200 pairs up with the #1 in the world and is demolished. I request my money back, since the match I bet on never occurred, yet they claim I still made a bet that the #200 would win his next match. I'm saying I bet he won his match against the #4000 player, not against the #1. Clearly unfair.
 
gnana prakash said:
R2: Djokovic
BU: Mury
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TIgMAs.jpg
 
TripleATeam said:
No, if a player receives ANY sort of W/O, they must choose another player. I count this in the same vein- that if my match is cancelled, I should have to switch.

Imagine another scenario- The world #200 goes against the #4000 player. I bet $20 on the #200, but then the match is cancelled. The #200 pairs up with the #1 in the world and is demolished. I request my money back, since the match I bet on never occurred, yet they claim I still made a bet that the #200 would win his next match. I'm saying I bet he won his match against the #4000 player, not against the #1. Clearly unfair.
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Unlucky, but not unfair. The betting you describe is different because it involves betting on a match between two players. This game is about picking a player who you believe will advance to the next round. Your player didn't advance. You can't have another chance after your player loses.
 
sosa09 said:
But you changed your pick after the match was over, so I don't know.

@Krish872007 what happens in this situation?
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It's a tricky situation but Thompson (the main pick) did not actually receive a walkover, and the purpose is to pick a player you think will advance. If he loses, you're out. The pick cannot be changed or voided after the match is complete.
 
Krish872007 said:
It's a tricky situation but Thompson (the main pick) did not actually receive a walkover, and the purpose is to pick a player you think will advance. If he loses, you're out. The pick cannot be changed or voided after the match is complete.
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But I specifically chose him because of his opponent! He could have beaten the opponent he was given, but I never said he would beat this guy.
 
Krish872007 said:
It's a tricky situation but Thompson (the main pick) did not actually receive a walkover, and the purpose is to pick a player you think will advance. If he loses, you're out. The pick cannot be changed or voided after the match is complete.
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Never mind- I found the 8th clause.
8. If the opponent of the person you picked withdraws and is replaced by a lucky loser your original pick will stand unless you specifically change it.

This should be changed to the the BU is picked. However, I guess I lose. :(

I just think there wasn't enough time to change between the withdrawal and the beginning of play, but whatever.
 
TripleATeam said:
Never mind- I found the 8th clause.
8. If the opponent of the person you picked withdraws and is replaced by a lucky loser your original pick will stand unless you specifically change it.

This should be changed to the the BU is picked. However, I guess I lose. :(

I just think there wasn't enough time to change between the withdrawal and the beginning of play, but whatever.
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Its a tough way to lose but if it's any consolation I changed my pick away from Thompson and still lost.
 
JJGUY said:
Well, I will need to use my Save Picks to get out of this one, do I have to pick another player, or the save will send me to directly to round 2?
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Yep, you can use a Save here. Which player would you like to burn? (You'll get through to R2 and won't be able to pick that burnt player again of course)
 
Krish872007 said:
Its a tough way to lose but if it's any consolation I changed my pick away from Thompson and still lost.
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I don't want you to lose. I wanted to move on. Please consider changing this rule in the future. Many people make their picks based on who the player they pick is playing against. It's quite frustrating to see a #550 has dropped out in place of #90 when you check back in after making your pick.
 
TripleATeam said:
Never mind- I found the 8th clause.
8. If the opponent of the person you picked withdraws and is replaced by a lucky loser your original pick will stand unless you specifically change it.

This should be changed to the the BU is picked. However, I guess I lose. :(

I just think there wasn't enough time to change between the withdrawal and the beginning of play, but whatever.
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I think this clause should have some more words kinda "...specifically change it before the match begins"
 
TripleATeam said:
I don't want you to lose. I wanted to move on. Please consider changing this rule in the future. Many people make their picks based on who the player they pick is playing against. It's quite frustrating to see a #550 has dropped out in place of #90 when you check back in after making your pick.
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The frustration is understandable. It's also understandable that you may not have had time to realise this change had taken place. I will edit the clause slightly and say that the change of pick should take place before the match starts (as clarification), but this kind of outcome is part and parcel of the SDL in my view. This has happened in the past as well and consistency in handling the issue should be maintained
 
Krish872007 said:
The frustration is understandable. It's also understandable that you may not have had time to realise this change had taken place. I will edit the clause slightly and say that the change of pick should take place before the match starts (as clarification), but this kind of outcome is part and parcel of the SDL in my view. This has happened in the past as well and consistency in handling the issue should be maintained
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Maybe add something to the clause to give the person participating in the SDL enough time to change it. I don't know, it just seems like if it truly happens like an hour before play, it's not very fair to assume the person will hear the news/ get online quick enough to make a change.

As for your point, it is understandable, as well, but take my suggestion under stronger consideration, please. If the opponent had no impact on the match, sure. But there is a difference between opponents- what could make the difference between a loss and a win. If the opponent changes, it doesn't seem to be fair to stay with that pick instead of going to the much more reasoned-out BU pick.

Personally, I look at both my BU and R# pick seriously, and partially use H2H to determine who the winner should be. If, however, I have no chance to research whether or not a player will beat his opponent, I'd rather my BU be taken than a poor pick.
 
TripleATeam said:
Maybe add something to the clause to give the person participating in the SDL enough time to change it. I don't know, it just seems like if it truly happens like an hour before play, it's not very fair to assume the person will hear the news/ get online quick enough to make a change.

As for your point, it is understandable, as well, but take my suggestion under stronger consideration, please. If the opponent had no impact on the match, sure. But there is a difference between opponents- what could make the difference between a loss and a win. If the opponent changes, it doesn't seem to be fair to stay with that pick instead of going to the much more reasoned-out BU pick.

Personally, I look at both my BU and R# pick seriously, and partially use H2H to determine who the winner should be. If, however, I have no chance to research whether or not a player will beat his opponent, I'd rather my BU be taken than a poor pick.
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Right - thanks for voicing your concerns directly. I'm happy for anyone else to chip in with their thoughts on the 8th clause as well, particularly more senior SDL participants who may have experienced a similar issue.
 
Krish872007 said:
Right - thanks for voicing your concerns directly. I'm happy for anyone else to chip in with their thoughts on the 8th clause as well, particularly more senior SDL participants who may have experienced a similar issue.
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I'd also like to say that I'm not lobbying I be allowed to continue playing in Indian Wells- just expressing my opinions on a clause. Either way, I lose.
 
TripleATeam said:
I'd also like to say that I'm not lobbying I be allowed to continue playing in Indian Wells- just expressing my opinions on a clause. Either way, I lose.
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Don't worry, I completely understand - with each passing year of the SDL more and more specific clauses have been included to help properly shape and define the boundaries of the game, so it's good to flesh things out and be clear with what happens under certain circumstances for the future tournaments
 
UPDATE:

Looks like Murray's half is playing first on Saturday so for those who get through, your next pick will be for "R2 Top", then "R2 Bottom" if you get through to Sunday.
 
@Krish872007: I just feel one's back up should be used in this case. Because we don't pick a player blindly expecting him to advance without seeing who the opponent is. In other leagues like PPL and PDL, the said match is void. Back up rule was introduced in this tournament. It is only fitting we fix another rule at IW.
Just my 2 cents.
 
I would say the rule is fine as it is. I think In this game you are not predicting the result of a match (i.e. Federal will beat Nadal) but you are picking who will advance no matter who they are playing..

Pretty sure that was one of the idea's to differentiate this from the Prediction League which was first.
 
Boozyuzi said:
I would say the rule is fine as it is. I think In this game you are not predicting the result of a match (i.e. Federal will beat Nadal) but you are picking who will advance no matter who they are playing..

Pretty sure that was one of the idea's to differentiate this from the Prediction League which was first.
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What made you think this player will advance to the next round ?
 
gnana prakash said:
@Krish872007: I just feel one's back up should be used in this case. Because we don't pick a player blindly expecting him to advance without seeing who the opponent is. In other leagues like PPL and PDL, the said match is void. Back up rule was introduced in this tournament. It is only fitting we fix another rule at IW.
Just my 2 cents.
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But a user may want to keep their original pick despite the change in opponent so it shouldnt be an automatic change to the bu.

My vote would be for the rule to remain the way it is now. If a user is that concerned the onus should be on that user to check the matchup before it begins and make any changes.
 
Krish872007 said:
Excellent - I'll make the change in a few hours. You have another Save as well, so just wanted to let you know that you can't use both in the same tournament if such a situation was to arise.
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Does he get extra points straight away or does he need to win his nxt match ?
 
Boozyuzi said:
Does he get extra points straight away or does he need to win his nxt match ?
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I understand that in the WTA there is a requirement to win the next match to get extra points
In this case, he'll get the points now. (That's my view of the Save pick at least - it's a very early exit here. However, this rule will not hold if you choose to use your Save at the last possible stage. I'll write a paragraph on this in the FAQs)
 
Not sure if it makes a difference when the use it.. I based it on the LL rule that you gain additional points if you win your next pick, the save pick gives you the chance to progress.

Should you get points for a loss ?
 
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