2017 ATP Sudden Death League: Indian Wells

TripleATeam said:
I don't want you to lose. I wanted to move on. Please consider changing this rule in the future. Many people make their picks based on who the player they pick is playing against. It's quite frustrating to see a #550 has dropped out in place of #90 when you check back in after making your pick.
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And how about the opposite scenario where you pick a player, and just before the match, the opponent is swapped in the draw with a much worse opponent? You are unaware of this change, but even had you known, you would have kept your original pick. The match is ruled to be void, and your backup pickup loses or you don't have a backup pick and it's too late to select one once you find out because all eligible matches have been played. Do you think you should lose then, when you correctly picked a player to advance?

Again, this isn't open picking a player to beat another specific player, it's about picking a player to advance to the next round, regardless of who the opponent is. If you really want to protect yourself, consider a caveat when you make your pick: I pick Player A unless Player A's opponent changes, in which case please go to my back up pick.

Also, if your player would have won even with an opponent change, and your backup lost, would you have demanded that you be eliminated?
 
Beacon Hill said:
And how about the opposite scenario where you pick a player, and just before the match, the opponent is swapped in the draw with a much worse opponent? You are unaware of this change, but even had you known, you would have kept your original pick. The match is ruled to be void, and your backup pickup loses or you don't have a backup pick and it's too late to select one once you find out because all eligible matches have been played. Do you think you should lose then, when you correctly picked a player to advance?

Again, this isn't open picking a player to beat another specific player, it's about picking a player to advance to the next round, regardless of who the opponent is. If you really want to protect yourself, consider a caveat when you make your pick: I pick Player A unless Player A's opponent changes, in which case please go to my back up pick.

Also, if your player would have won even with an opponent change, and your backup lost, would you have demanded that you be eliminated?
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I gave up on trying to argue, since I saw clause 8, sir. If I had won with this, I doubt I would have brought it up, but reform is never made when the circumstances are in your favor. Again, I'm fine with losing, as long as we consider changing the rule.
 
First round picks for this tournament (and others with first round byes) are often more difficult than later round picks. Perhaps the top 32 ranked participants in SDL should be seeded and get a bye, mirroring how the actual tournament draw is made. It would encourage people to play regularly, and reward participants who are doing well, just like the players in the tournament. The could of course extend in a similar fashion to other tournaments with first round byes.

I understand this might be too much trouble for the organizers.
 
Beacon Hill said:
And how about the opposite scenario where you pick a player, and just before the match, the opponent is swapped in the draw with a much worse opponent? You are unaware of this change, but even had you known, you would have kept your original pick. The match is ruled to be void, and your backup pickup loses or you don't have a backup pick and it's too late to select one once you find out because all eligible matches have been played. Do you think you should lose then, when you correctly picked a player to advance?

Again, this isn't open picking a player to beat another specific player, it's about picking a player to advance to the next round, regardless of who the opponent is. If you really want to protect yourself, consider a caveat when you make your pick: I pick Player A unless Player A's opponent changes, in which case please go to my back up pick.

Also, if your player would have won even with an opponent change, and your backup lost, would you have demanded that you be eliminated?
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All pick, repick or BU use lead to 2 scenario only: you win or you lose. Rules must be obeyed. And we dont challenge the rule for our favor to win by any chance, but asking about our control ability when unexpected thing happens. That says, we prefer to be able to change our decision and accept the risk, of course.
You keep talking about SDL is about picking the player regardless the oppnent. Really? What makes you think the player will advance if not a win for him? You call it "picking the player to advance", we call it "picking a player that can win", and we both looked as his opponent to make selection at first. Are they different? No, until a cancellation happens.
Now:
- You want a rule that keeps the original player no matter what happens, because it is suitable for the name Sudden death. Agree.
- We are, however, asking for a rule that allows us to adapt the cancellation, not to have a second chance, no, when the first pick's condition doesnt exist anymore. It's also not an advantage as we dont know who's gonna advance now. Not less sudden for a death, isnt it? And again, we accept the risk.
In case the replacing player has lower rank than the substituted one (or worse h2h, poor performance...) that makes the chance to advance of the original pick higher, it's not an advantage. Others can change their decision anytime as well, as soon as the match hasnt started. We cant say that they re taking advtg on the situation, can we?
Plz remember 1 more thing: we dont want to use the BU at all, the best choice has been put on the first pick. But we prioritize to have the initiative.
Anw, this is just a suggestion, of course!
 
Sereger said:
All pick, repick or BU use lead to 2 scenario only: you win or you lose. Rules must be obeyed. And we dont challenge the rule for our favor to win by any chance, but asking about our control ability when unexpected thing happens. That says, we prefer to be able to change our decision and accept the risk, of course.
You keep talking about SDL is about picking the player regardless the oppnent. Really? What makes you think the player will advance if not a win for him? You call it "picking the player to advance", we call it "picking a player that can win", and we both looked as his opponent to make selection at first. Are they different? No, until a cancellation happens.
Now:
- You want a rule that keeps the original player no matter what happens, because it is suitable for the name Sudden death. Agree.
- We are, however, asking for a rule that allows us to adapt the cancellation, not to have a second chance, no, when the first pick's condition doesnt exist anymore. It's also not an advantage as we dont know who's gonna advance now. Not less sudden for a death, isnt it? And again, we accept the risk.
In case the replacing player has lower rank than the substituted one (or worse h2h, poor performance...) that makes the chance to advance of the original pick higher, it's not an advantage. Others can change their decision anytime as well, as soon as the match hasnt started. We cant say that they re taking advtg on the situation, can we?
Plz remember 1 more thing: we dont want to use the BU at all, the best choice has been put on the first pick. But we prioritize to have the initiative.
Anw, this is just a suggestion, of course!
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I think simplicity is best. We are all trying to pick players to advance to the next round. (Yes, by winning if you want to use that term, but it amounts to the same thing.) The player can't advance by a W/O, and I think we all understand the reasons for that. But other than that, we are just picking a player to beat an opponent and advance. You can play the game without even knowing who the opponent is, because we are not picking one player to beat another particular player, just to win and advance.

We all have the ability to determine our picks in whatever way we choose: current form, better head to head stats, because we are a fan, we like the color of their outfit, coin flip, whatever we like. It's up to each of us to research (or not), and then pick, and that includes researching who their opponent is, and whether that opponent has changed. Sometimes opponents change, sometimes the roof closes, sometime our player gets injured during the match - anything can happen. But it's all immaterial in the end. It only matters if our pick wins and advances.

And if someone, like in this case, is only picking based on a head to head, just say so when you are picking: If my Player A does not play Player B, then I choose Player C. No need to change any rules, especially when it will have a detrimental affect in other circumstances.

My two cents. I don't decide because I don't organize. I appreciate the organizers and respect their decisions. I also appreciate the respectful dialogue and debate from those who disagree. And I'm most thankful no one turned this into a debate about who is the GOAT.
 
Lesson learned! In 5 years of playing this game I have never changed pick had I did here and Coric not me out but I would have gone through with Chardy!

Good luck to everyone left in it and thanks to the organisiners for your great work.

I will see you all for Miami and I predict that I will win the tournament this year :)
 
ark_28 said:
Lesson learned! In 5 years of playing this game I have never changed pick had I did here and Coric not me out but I would have gone through with Chardy!

Good luck to everyone left in it and thanks to the organisiners for your great work.

I will see you all for Miami and I predict that I will win the tournament this year :)
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it happens to@sosa09 all the time :(
 
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