2017 ATP World Tour Finals RRP - [1] Nadal vs [7] Goffin
- Thread starter Charleneriva
- Start date
Tennisgods
Hall of Fame
It's very curious. Why was he here? There simply was no strong reason for Nadal to play this event.
Tennisgods
Hall of Fame
delete
YellowFedBetter
Hall of Fame
I think this also proves how seriously the top players really take this event anyways.
marc45
G.O.A.T.
that was false, during the match he said in presser
Ralph
Hall of Fame
Indeed. I remember him saying that. I just wonder whether he'd have aimed to play a few matches then tanked, knowing that he'd have the chance. Pure speculation, but still. I think the title here again this week is more important than the year end no.1 to him regardless. Plus it also makes him regaining the no.1 again a touch easier now, or am I wrong....
Tennisanity
Legend
LOLLLL, Nadal chickens out to protect his H2H against Federer.
marc45
G.O.A.T.
I guess the "will he play Oz?" watch is on...two months to rest and recuperate
YellowFedBetter
Hall of Fame
You guys amuse me. You’ll make comments like this but then burn me at the stake for trying to say Fed is ducking Rafa on clay.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
I suppose it does. He needs to go 5-0 here and then wait and see how next season starts. It helps his #1 chances in the sense that Nadal could've picked up a lot of points here, but now he won't.
existential dread
Professional
Like last year's FO?
Charleneriva
Hall of Fame
I hope he will skip Abu Dhabi. Brisbane is right in the following week. And that is if he didn't aggravate his knees (which I doubt very much considering how the match went) and will recover in time. All in all I don't think it's a wise decision to keep playing even though he wanted to give back to his fans and play the last match of the season in London. I watched all of his practice sessions and just couldn't see how he could suddenly play like "normal".
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Really cares about the WTF I guess. Contrary to what some e-warriors will tell you.
Charleneriva
Hall of Fame
YellowFedBetter
Hall of Fame
That was different. Nadal made it to the third round and his body gave out.
Here it’s pretty clear he just wanted to finish the match today and collect his check.
I respect your view though you’re not like the fanboys on here.
YellowFedBetter
Hall of Fame
That was different. Nadal made it to the third round and his body gave out.
Here it’s pretty clear he just wanted to finish the match today and collect his check.
I respect your view though you’re not like the fanboys on here.
YellowFedBetter
Hall of Fame
Exactly. Fact is despite what so many try to say WTF just isn’t that big a deal. It isn’t an event that inspires top players to take risks to win it.
abmk
Bionic Poster
YellowFedBetter
Hall of Fame
Exactly. Fact is despite what so many try to say WTF just isn’t that big a deal. It isn’t an event that inspires top players to take risks.
marc45
G.O.A.T.
I've heard he's hard up for money...might even be dropping that watch off at a pawn shop tonight
existential dread
Professional
Even at that he still knew he couldn't give it his all; he unnecessarily risked injury by showing up, I don't think that's something he does unless the event means something. 200k is a lot but it's not that much.
Wilhelm
Hall of Fame
Oh, he will
Steak it is.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
I don't expect Nadal to risk worsening his injury, but clearly he cared about the WTF enough give his best in this match. Even if he did only show up for the cheque (not necessarily something I'd condemn him for tbh) at least he gave a top effort.
George Turner
Hall of Fame
To cheer all you guys up, i'm making a PCB vs Thiem thread
Shank Volley
Hall of Fame
Agreed. He clearly values this tournament a lot, as he should, given it has as high a standard of opposition as any grand slam.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
If it wasn't that big a deal, Nadal wouldn't have shown up at all!
YellowFedBetter
Hall of Fame
Well I see that. I still think that IW is a bigger deal to the players than this though.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
He will just play Nadal's remaining 2 round robin matches.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
You're thinking wrong then. Too lazy to find the exact quote now, but Djokovic for example has said that his WTF win in 2008 was comparable to his AO win that year. Or else projecting your own view of the WTF as something that the players themselves should think.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Why would you think that when ranking points and prize money are greater at the WTF?
YellowFedBetter
Hall of Fame
I respect that. It’s placement at the end of year hurts it.
YellowFedBetter
Hall of Fame
I respect that. It’s placement at the end of year hurts it. Unavoidable I guess.
YellowFedBetter
Hall of Fame
This is my response. Players aren’t going to give the kind of effort for an event at the end of the season and jeopardize their ridiculously short off season and thus have a major affect on the next year. IW is in the thick of the early part of the season.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Nadal and Goffin just played a fiercely contested match that went the full distance even though both players were probably a bit fatigued and Nadal definitely injured. Do you think Nadal would have fought so hard to win at least 1 match if he wasn't prepared to make any kind of effort for this event? What you seem to be watching is obviously very different from what everyone else is seeing!
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
I agree that it hasn't been truly great since about 2012 or so and that the long year and injuries that come with it can hurt the competition, but I don't think that means that IW is more valued by the players. Certainly not the ones that are actually (relatively) healthy come WTF time and have worked their asses off to get there.
This year (and maybe last) has been an anomaly in regards to injuries tbh. Usually there aren't anywhere near this many. At any rate, I don't think it takes away any inherent value of the WTF. It has always been the 5th biggest tournament in tennis regardless of injuries or anything else.
YellowFedBetter
Hall of Fame
I’m a maverick lol. But I don’t have a problem with your point though.
I just don’t care for the event period. Have yet to see one live I found memorable.
Nothing can be less serious than this year's FO and Wimbledon.
Nothing can be less serious than this year's FO and Wimbledon.
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
existential dread
Professional
I know even I poo-pooed the idea of changing anything about the WTF but I wonder if making it like the 'Granddaddy' of the masters would add something to it. The idea would be that qualification for it would be based upon points gathered at only masters events only, so in effect it would be like the culmination of the ATP year (with the thinking that grand slams are under the purview of the ITF), and would function as the 10th and last masters event. Format and points allotted would remain the same within the tournament so as to give a higher status among the other masters events.
'
'
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
this. so much this
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Of course this event has always been played at the end of the season for very obvious reasons. However, I do agree that injury/fatigue issues seem to be more evident in preventing more of the top players participating than used to be the case and I think this is down to the fact that, over the years, the season has grown ever longer with the result that players are suffering more injury issues (fully 5 of last year's participants had no chance of playing this year because of injury) and the current number #1 ranked player has just been forced to withdraw for the same reason. I think the time has come for the ATP to take a serious look at the scheduling of these end of season events eg. the Paris Masters also and of the way the tour is currently structured if they want to preserve their value and quality as top notch events for the tournaments in question, players and fans alike!
Charleneriva
Hall of Fame
YellowFedBetter
Hall of Fame
The stilt of HC events over Clay and grass is also ridiculous. But the ATP is gonna milk the cash cow for all it’s worth and it’s not about to change.
Well I’m done until Sunday here. I’ll watch Thiem fail some more than catch maybe the last part of the event Sunday and then come back to post after to bring this miserable season to a close. While 2015 is the most unentertaining year of this decade this has without a doubt been the most soul crushing for me.
I hope @TheGhostOfAgassi at least had a decent time at the event despite her guy being done.
@VolleyHelena
Last edited:
donquijote
G.O.A.T.
marc45
G.O.A.T.
DAVID GOFFIN’S BIG WIN WAS RAFAEL NADAL’S SEASON-ENDING DEFEAT
by: STEVE TIGNOR | November 13, 2017
David Goffin will take a win over one of the Big 5 any way he can get it. The 26-year-old Belgian has been an elite player for a few years now, and he has pushed the top guys to the brink a few times, but before today he was just 2-21 against Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic, Andy Murray, and Stan Wawrinka.
Make that 3-21. In a battle of the walking wounded, Goffin, who has had his injured right knee taped for months, beat Nadal, whose own right knee injury became more obvious as the match progressed, 7-6 (5), 6-7 (4), 6-4. By the second set, Nadal was flexing his knee, which had forced him to pull out of his last tournament, in Bercy. By the third set, he was limping. When it was over, he waved good-bye to the O2 crowd for good, and a few minutes later he put an end to his 2017 season by pulling out of the tournament.
“I had a great season, I’m not going to cry,” said Nadal of his 2017, in which he won two Grand Slam titles and became the oldest man, at 31, to claim the year-end No. 1 ranking.
Nadal said he decided midway through the match that he would probably have to pull the plug. But you wouldn’t have known that from the way he tried to work his way back in. With Goffin serving for the win at 5-3, Nadal broke. Serving at 4-5, Rafa saved one match point and held. Serving at 5-6, he saved three more match points with a brilliant series of go-for-broke winners. After dropping the first two points of the tiebreaker, he played his best tennis in a month to win it 7-4. In the third set, Nadal, despite struggling to move and falling behind two breaks, came back again and forced Goffin to serve it out at 5-4. This time Goffin was up to the task, and he closed it out with his 14th ace, on his fifth match point.
Goffin was 0-2 versus Rafa before today, but it was clear from the start that the low-bouncing London surface was going to work in his favor. Rather than kicking up around Goffin’s shoulders, Rafa’s crosscourt forehand bounced right into his strike zone, and right into his favorite, point-opening shot, his down-the-line backhand. Only Nadal’s nothing-left-to-lose fighting spirit, and Goffin’s chronic inability to nail the coffin shut against a top player, kept Rafa in this one. Still, sometimes it takes a little good fortune to give a player confidence to do what he hasn’t done before. Goffin has done a lot in 2017; will beating Rafa give him a little added boost as he heads into the Davis Cup final next weekend, and what looks like a promising 2018?
As for Nadal, he said he didn’t think his 2017 deserved to end this way, and he’s right. On the other hand, he lasted longer, and played more, this season than he has in many years past. For the first time in a decade, he played all four majors and all nine Masters 1000s. It caught up with him in the fall, and maybe, with the No. 1 ranking already clinched, he shouldn’t have come to London; he has, after all, missed this tournament five times in the past. But in 2017, Nadal has played virtually everywhere, and he wanted to give himself a chance to end this special season on a high note. You can never fault Rafa for trying.
by: STEVE TIGNOR | November 13, 2017
David Goffin will take a win over one of the Big 5 any way he can get it. The 26-year-old Belgian has been an elite player for a few years now, and he has pushed the top guys to the brink a few times, but before today he was just 2-21 against Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic, Andy Murray, and Stan Wawrinka.
Make that 3-21. In a battle of the walking wounded, Goffin, who has had his injured right knee taped for months, beat Nadal, whose own right knee injury became more obvious as the match progressed, 7-6 (5), 6-7 (4), 6-4. By the second set, Nadal was flexing his knee, which had forced him to pull out of his last tournament, in Bercy. By the third set, he was limping. When it was over, he waved good-bye to the O2 crowd for good, and a few minutes later he put an end to his 2017 season by pulling out of the tournament.
“I had a great season, I’m not going to cry,” said Nadal of his 2017, in which he won two Grand Slam titles and became the oldest man, at 31, to claim the year-end No. 1 ranking.
Nadal said he decided midway through the match that he would probably have to pull the plug. But you wouldn’t have known that from the way he tried to work his way back in. With Goffin serving for the win at 5-3, Nadal broke. Serving at 4-5, Rafa saved one match point and held. Serving at 5-6, he saved three more match points with a brilliant series of go-for-broke winners. After dropping the first two points of the tiebreaker, he played his best tennis in a month to win it 7-4. In the third set, Nadal, despite struggling to move and falling behind two breaks, came back again and forced Goffin to serve it out at 5-4. This time Goffin was up to the task, and he closed it out with his 14th ace, on his fifth match point.
Goffin was 0-2 versus Rafa before today, but it was clear from the start that the low-bouncing London surface was going to work in his favor. Rather than kicking up around Goffin’s shoulders, Rafa’s crosscourt forehand bounced right into his strike zone, and right into his favorite, point-opening shot, his down-the-line backhand. Only Nadal’s nothing-left-to-lose fighting spirit, and Goffin’s chronic inability to nail the coffin shut against a top player, kept Rafa in this one. Still, sometimes it takes a little good fortune to give a player confidence to do what he hasn’t done before. Goffin has done a lot in 2017; will beating Rafa give him a little added boost as he heads into the Davis Cup final next weekend, and what looks like a promising 2018?
As for Nadal, he said he didn’t think his 2017 deserved to end this way, and he’s right. On the other hand, he lasted longer, and played more, this season than he has in many years past. For the first time in a decade, he played all four majors and all nine Masters 1000s. It caught up with him in the fall, and maybe, with the No. 1 ranking already clinched, he shouldn’t have come to London; he has, after all, missed this tournament five times in the past. But in 2017, Nadal has played virtually everywhere, and he wanted to give himself a chance to end this special season on a high note. You can never fault Rafa for trying.
chjtennis
G.O.A.T.
Nadal obviously didn't feel much discomfort before the match. However, long season made him tired more than anything, I believe, which can actually cause aches around the whole body. His clay season was especially very long. I don't think he can repeat that kind of schedule next year as a 32 yo. Nadal's withdrawal is not such a big shock. I kind of expected him not to do that well here, knowing his history. He is just tired. He should be fine for January.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Yes, because Federer had Wimbledon waiting for him.
What is waiting for Nadal: a fishing boat?
He can get to that after the season is finished.
Nadal was not injured and so far we have explanations like "not ready for this" (why not?).
sbengte
G.O.A.T.
Your prediction on Nadal doing just enough to get #1 and tanking Paris, WTF to avoid beatings from Fed was spot on.
abmk
Bionic Poster
true. But I was surprised that he actually played that Cuevas match at Paris instead of retiring before it.
stringertom
Bionic Poster
So easy to see the WD coming.
These late season pushes for #1 have now taken down the conqueror two years in a row.
These late season pushes for #1 have now taken down the conqueror two years in a row.
Boom-Boom
Legend
He probably doesn’t know himself
Apun94
Hall of Fame
I was being sarcastic bud. Nadal was literally limping in the 3rd set
speedysteve
Legend
Credit to Nadal, shows up, fullfills commitments, in spite of problems gives a huge effort, just won't go away in that match. Okay takes two to tango and Goffin should have put him away earlier but Nadal tried and tried and tried.
You step on court you try.
Sometimes the body, the situation does not allow. Not playing further is sad for his fans and not to see his shot making and effort go further, but if he can't compete at the level he wants he can withdraw, that is his decision.
Right, who's on this afternoon?
You step on court you try.
Sometimes the body, the situation does not allow. Not playing further is sad for his fans and not to see his shot making and effort go further, but if he can't compete at the level he wants he can withdraw, that is his decision.
Right, who's on this afternoon?
Yoneyama
Hall of Fame
When his movement is impaired, for a professional player it would be easy (relative to the normal) to move them around. Of course you or I could not do it! We aren't pros and this forum is about discussing pros
Gazelle
G.O.A.T.
Arrogance probably. He had the weakest group imaginable, probably thought he could walk over Goffin & co (choking experts) and grab some easy 600 points. But as soon as the little Belgian put up some unexpected resistance, Nadal's knee got injured in record time.
underground
G.O.A.T.
They'll be here when Fed gets pushed to deuce on his own serve, it's actually a rare thing these days so VB has to grasp on to as much as they can get.
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