2017 FO SF - [4] Nadal vs [6] Thiem

Who will win this match?

  • Nadal in 3

    Votes: 26 20.0%

  • Nadal in 4

    Votes: 51 39.2%

  • Nadal in 5

    Votes: 10 7.7%

  • Thiem in 3

    Votes: 7 5.4%

  • Thiem in 4

    Votes: 25 19.2%

  • Thiem in 5

    Votes: 11 8.5%
  • Total voters
    130
  • Poll closed .
icedevil0289 said:
at the end of the day he did beat him, and unless rafa was limping on one leg or something, he was healthy and it was a fair win. although i'm sure some rafa fans will say other wise and in prior years novak has kept it close. i'm just saying even an AWOl novak, just b/c of experience, could have been more competitive. doesnt mean he would have beat him, i know rafa is just too good
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Yes, but the logic stands. Just look how many times he lost to usually people he doesn't lose to.
 
BeatlesFan said:
Djoker 2011-2016 would have beaten him. Nadal was not playing that well and making more UE's by far than usual.
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That's because Nadal didn't have to play anywhere near his best to beat Thiem. The only time Djokovic could beat Nadal at the FO was in 2015 when Nadal was an invalid.

What more do people need to see to know Nadal is in the best form he's been in since 2013? Most fans are so consumed with hatred for players they dislike they can't be objective when trying to analyze a match properly.
 
Krish0608 said:
Felt the same. I thought there were too many shanks from both. Thiem just rolled over from the word Go. There was not even a semblance of any challenge. It was just pathetic. I hope Wawrinka at least puts up a fight, though I highly doubt it. Let's see.
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Awww, give baby boy a break. He bageled Djokovic in his third. There aren't a lot of people who can do that.

How many kinds of strong would you have to be to meet those two challenges back to back? Who was the last person who did it?

Juan Martin beat Rafa and Roger to win his Slam, and Rafa was injured (same injury that took Pablo out) and still managed to finish 2-2-2.

(Of course I'm saying all that now, LOL. If Rafa wasn't on his way to his 10th RG final, I'd be upset :D )
 
Nadal is just a master of this RG clay. He is by far the best server in tennis on this surface. Yes others have more power but Rafa holds with ease almost all his service games and it is very difficult to break Rafa. The only comparison i can make is that Nadal is difficult to break on RG Clay like Federer is on Centre Court Wimbledon. I remember 2014 Federer where he hardly dropped serve. Rafa wasnt really amazing today but thats levels for you.
 
ruerooo said:
Awww, give baby boy a break. He bageled Djokovic in his third. There aren't a lot of people who can do that.

How many kinds of strong would you have to be to meet those two challenges back to back? Who was the last person who did it?

Juan Martin beat Rafa and Roger to win his Slam, and Rafa was injured (same injury that took Pablo out) and still managed to finish 2-2-2.

(Of course I'm saying all that now, LOL. If Rafa wasn't on his way to his 10th RG final, I'd be upset :D )
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yeah thiem just has trouble stringing things together and really needs better strategy... ah to be that young and so talented.
 
cc0509 said:
That's because Nadal didn't have to play anywhere near his best to beat Thiem. The only time Djokovic could beat Nadal at the FO was in 2015 when Nadal was an invalid.

What more do people need to see to know Nadal is in the best form he's been in since 2013? Most fans are so consumed with hatred for players they dislike they can't be objective when trying to analyze a match properly.
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tbf, novak has pushed nadal in the years before, he failed, but did push him.
 
I'm seeing odds of 9/2 for Stan and 1/4 for Rafa.

He's the only man that can hit through Rafa. I would lay a loose nickel on The Stanimal. I doubt Stan was ever favored in a slam final.
 
Thiem hits 87mph average FOREHAND and 83mph BACKHAND. If Thiem can drop that forehand mph to around 80mph and keep the reserves like Rafa does, and the backhand have more shape and drop it down to about 80mph. He can then be more patience and wait for the right ball to redline. I think its very poor just to keep bashing the ball.
 
icedevil0289 said:
i dont, but given how you feel about novak, makes sense.
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I never let my feelings for players get in the way of my analysis. EVER. In 2015, I said Djokovic would kill Nadal at the FO. In 2011, I predicted Djokovic would beat Nadal at W and the USO(not the FO),etc.
 
cc0509 said:
That's because Nadal didn't have to play anywhere near his best to beat Thiem. The only time Djokovic could beat Nadal at the FO was in 2015 when Nadal was an invalid.

What more do people need to see to know Nadal is in the best form he's been in since 2013? Most fans are so consumed with hatred for players they dislike they can't be objective when trying to analyze a match properly.
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Nadal really wasn't as brutal today though as he was in his prime. I know you can see that. And you are severely underrating Djokovic here. He is the only one to consistently challenge Nadal on clay and beat him at all the big clay tournaments. I would like Djokovic of 2011-2016 chances here against this Nadal today. I see a few openings in the court when back in his prime, there virtually were none.
 
cc0509 said:
Yes, but "this" Djokovic would have been thrashed by this Nadal.
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Nadal would have won but he wouldn't have thrashed Djokovic like he did Thiem, even with as bad Djokovic has been playing. He would have mustered up something to compete because of pride. This is his biggest rival and he would have given a lot more effort.
 
NoleFam said:
Nadal would have won but he wouldn't have thrashed Djokovic like he did Thiem, even with as bad Djokovic has been playing. He would have mustered up something to compete because of pride. This is his biggest rival and he would have given a lot more effort.
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IMO this Djokovic wouldn't have been up for it. I think it would have been a bad loss for him. I'm thinkin' he knew that too and flew the coop. ;)
 
cc0509 said:
IMO this Djokovic wouldn't have been up for it. I think it would have been a bad loss for him. I'm thinkin' he knew that too and flew the coop. ;)
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Djokovic always competes harder against Nadal and Federer no matter his form, especially in Slams. He would have competed a lot harder than he did against Thiem where he looked like he was somewhere else.
 
Meles said:
Basically bounce height on Chatrier; Rome was much lower and more balls in the Thiem wheelhouse. Against Nadal today Thiem's forehand was forced into a more spinny shot that could not get through the court. On backhand Thiem was screwed for the same reason and if he dared slice generally Rafa gobbled those balls up. Thiem tried hitting the backhand bloop down the line, but Rafa took those cross court with great effectiveness. Thiem sadly was very gassed by the 3rd set and you could see this in his drooping first serve percentage.:confused: Thiem will have more stamina, more serve, and more strength to handle high balls next year and the years after. He'd have to have the game to straight set Rafa because he only played two decent sets this year and I don't see that being 4 by next year.:(
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Agree entirely with all you write.
BOunce height on Chatrier was remarked on by Jmac and crew, supposedly higher than ever (lack of rain? ) probably helping Rafa go through everyone with greater ease. Lost less sets on his way to the final than ever before (OK Busta retired but we know how that would have gone). I felt confident Rafa would win prior assuming Thiem could not play 3 over the top sets. Rafa's base level play would be higher than Thiem's.

Thiems got plenty of time and is certainly the next best player on clay when Rafa is truly in decline. He still ne3eds the stamina, and with that comes more patience to work a point rather than go for so many low percentage winners.

Anyone other than Rafa on the other side of the net and I would have been rooting for Thie, He was 2nd fav preference to win the FO. He reminds me of Rafa in some ways, particularly the physical explosiveness of the strokes, the concentration.
 
NoleFam said:
Nadal would have won but he wouldn't have thrashed Djokovic like he did Thiem, even with as bad Djokovic has been playing. He would have mustered up something to compete because of pride. This is his biggest rival and he would have given a lot more effort.
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To stand up against Nadal on clay Djokovic needs his famed BH of Godlingness near 100% (plus major wheels), and that hasn't been the case lately, unfortunately.
 
NoleFam said:
Nadal really wasn't as brutal today though as he was in his prime. I know you can see that. And you are severely underrating Djokovic here. He is the only one to consistently challenge Nadal on clay and beat him at all the big clay tournaments. I would like Djokovic of 2011-2016 chances here against this Nadal today. I see a few openings in the court when back in his prime, there virtually were none.
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Of course Nadal isn't prime Nadal but he's actually made improvements in some areas. He looks pretty good and a pretty good Nadal is hard to beat on Chatrier even by a good Djokovic as we've seen over and over again.
 
Krish0608 said:
Felt the same. I thought there were too many shanks from both. Thiem just rolled over from the word Go. There was not even a semblance of any challenge. It was just pathetic. I hope Wawrinka at least puts up a fight, though I highly doubt it. Let's see.
Click to expand...

I agree but disagree with last point - Stan will step up no doubt
 
NoleFam said:
Djokovic always competes harder against Nadal and Federer no matter his form, especially in Slams. He would have competed a lot harder than he did against Thiem where he looked like he was somewhere else.
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Maybe he would have competed harder but he still would have lost badly this year to Nadal IMO.

Anyways, it's a moot discussion since Djokovic tanked vs Thiem.
 
WarrenMP said:
Thiem goes for broke on all his shots. I always see him trying to hit the Devil out the ball.
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including his first serve, when he might be better off using his kicker to get a high percentage in and set up an easy fh...seemed like he was trying to blast hard, flat first serves, and missing them a lot
 
cc0509 said:
That's because Nadal didn't have to play anywhere near his best to beat Thiem. The only time Djokovic could beat Nadal at the FO was in 2015 when Nadal was an invalid.

What more do people need to see to know Nadal is in the best form he's been in since 2013? Most fans are so consumed with hatred for players they dislike they can't be objective when trying to analyze a match properly.
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That is very true comment. Bar 2015 and 09, any Nadal version is too good at RG
 
Don't know where Dominic goes from here. The clay season is over and he is pretty much useless on grass and HC.

We'll probably seem him again next clay season.

Nadal at least before 2009 still had some good runs on HC and grass. Thiem isn't even as good as 19-21 year old Rafa on grass and HC.
 
icedevil0289 said:
Yeah yeah most objective poster ever
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Compared to most other posters? Absolutely. I don't vote in polls for which player I want to win, I vote for which player I think will win based on current form, past h2h, etc.

When I saw so many posters picking Thiem to have a chance to win vs Nadal, I thought I must be dreaming or missing something. What have most people been watching exactly or is it just that they are voting with their hearts and not their brains. I never understand that. Why do that? What's the point? I've watched Nadal go through the clay season like it's water and he made it to the final of the AO on a a faster hc. He's in good form and dangerous again. It is what it is. Just like Djokovic was unstoppable for a few years. Posters have to accept these things and watch what is really happening not what they wish to happen.
 
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cc0509 said:
I think this Djokovic would have done worse than Thiem.
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Yeah, I don't think we can take too much from Novak's play in the QF. Hard to figure out what the problem is, but I doubt very much he was beating Nadal this year.

Let's hope for a great final. Stanimal vs El Toro. May the best beast win.
 
cc0509 said:
Compared to most other posters? Absolutely. I don't vote in polls for which player I want to win, I vote for which player I think will win based on current form, past h2h, etc.

When I saw so many posters picking Thiem to have a chance to win vs Nadal, I thought I must be dreaming or missing something. What have most people been watching exactly or it is just that they are voting with their hearts and not their brains. I never understand that. Why do that? What's the point? I've watched Nadal go through the clay season like it's water and he made it to the final of the AO on a a faster hc. He's in good form and dangerous again. It is what it is. Just like Djokovic was unstoppable for a few years. Posters have to accept these things and watch what is really happening not what they wish to happen.
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*shrugs* maybe so, some of your posts suggest otherwise.
 
To sum it up folks unless your one handed backhand is on par with Stan in Stanimal mode, you can't beat Nadal on RG. Time and time again I saw Nadal get errors out of the one hander. Also I think thiem was trying to close it out in 3 like jmac suggested that he needs to settle down as Nadal was not one to go away easily.
 
tumblr_inline_okkizbo8s91rppgxe_540.png
https://68.media.tumblr.com/8776000ab9fff3e0dffd690695c3a991/tumblr_inline_okkizbo8s91rppgxe_540.png
 
Rafa is a poker player. He played possum in Rome and Thiem put all his cards on the table so Rafa was ready for him today when it matters more. As some have said, it was probably a blessing in disguise that Rafa didn't go all the way to the final in Rome because he would not have had any down time before going to RG to train before the tournament started.
 
mike danny said:
I think even Pete Sampras would have done better than Thiem today.
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You speak about an ATG like he's a joke. Sampras won Rome and won the DC single-handedly on clay in Russia and he definitely would have played Nadal a lot closer than Thiem. Sampras at least would completely disrupt Nadal's rhythm and not let him get into any groove. I'd like to see Rafa return Pete's 135 MPH down the T serve, which he served basically at will.
 
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