2017 Madrid Open SF - [2] Djokovic vs [4] Nadal

Who?


  • Total voters
    93
  • Poll closed .

ChrisRF

Legend
Oh trust me! It is very easy for me to do. :)
For me nothing beats a live match. I watch the good matches again, because then I can concentrate on the technical and tactical things. But the tension of a history making Grand Slam final like this year's Australian Open cannot be compared to anything concerning TV sports. Watching while already knowing the result is like doing something different. ;)
 

Adv. Edberg

Legend
Nadal has an advantage at FO centre court though. The clay there suits him better and the winds in that arena can be very tricky. Which difficult to practice for. And nobody has played as much on centre court as Rafa has.
 

Hitman's Gurl

Professional
For me nothing beats a live match. I watch the good matches again, because then I can concentrate on the technical and tactical things. But the tension of a history making Grand Slam final like this year's Australian Open cannot be compared to anything concerning TV sports. Watching while already knowing the result is like doing something different. ;)

Sure. I personally prefer not to have a heart attack. Thank you! :)
 

marc45

G.O.A.T.
Rafa probably has another gear even beyond his excellent play against Goffin.:confused:

Goffin a bit better, but he's got a wide open draw in Rome. Nadal could get some good exercise before the final with Schwartzman, Thiem QF, and Djoko/Nishi SF. Injurkori looked rather good until he pulled the stunt with Djokovic walkover. Claykori on song has a bit more to offer than Goffin when he's playing at his best and could at least soften Nadal up for the final. We saw in the 2nd set that if Rafa gets onto the defensive Goffin can really preasure him in rallies. Razor sharp Goffin probably does better his third time.:p

Glad to see Goffin and Djokovic in the end offer some decent resistance here in Madrid. If Thiem rolls into the final with momentum he'll offer more fight than Barcelona and Madrid is not Rafa's favorite clay event.:)

so Rafa could get Thiem twice in 6 days, and Djokovic twice in 7..interesting
 

Tuskarr

Semi-Pro
djokovic looked pathetic (except for the last game). looks like he has no desire to play tennis. his game was so passive today.
 
Awaiting the second SF, just a slight bit of classic funky party music for you Nadal-fans folks to enjoy right now:


The lovely, beautiful Goddess-of-Funk, aka Chaka Kahn, with her 1970's funk band Rufus.
Damn, how fantastic!

Ultimate Party Music. :) :) :)

I thought that this would be a troll music/video, I ended up watching the whole thing. Never heard of that song or group, and Deng, that's a fine singer you got there
 

CivicLx

Hall of Fame
lol still haven't made any attempt to catch this match. Not sure if I want to try and head out and see the replay or not. I hate being indecisive!
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
so Rafa could get Thiem twice in 6 days, and Djokovic twice in 7..interesting
We'll soon see if Thiem can handle Cuevas in their Madrid semifinal. There is one player who could spoil the whole party.:oops:
E0zO1jpsEmuek.gif
 

TheMusicLover

G.O.A.T.
I thought that this would be a troll music/video, I ended up watching the whole thing. Never heard of that song or group, and Deng, that's a fine singer you got there
Wow, you have never heard before of the Divine Funk/Soul Goddess Chaka Kahn?

Here's a special tribute, for you:


Godheavenly fantastic singing, but yeah, the Goddess of Soul.

:)
 

kishnabe

Talk Tennis Guru
Came to the last page and scrolled straight down without looking at any posts. I may get a chance to watch this later on. Is it worth checking out? If you answer, please make sure you quote my post so I'll know and so I can go right to your post without seeing any other posts which may spoil the match.

Thanks and live long and suresh!:D
2nd set had some crazy points.
 

CivicLx

Hall of Fame
2nd set had some crazy points.
Damn...I need to get TC so I can just stay at home and watch lol Well it's 12:20 PST and I'll assume that the second SF is either going on or about to start. Maybe I'll head on down there and try and watch what I can. I've certainly got nothing better to do:D
 

ruerooo

Legend
Oh ok. Damn, I think Spain is 9 hours ahead of me so that would be putting them on court at 9:30. That seems like a late start for such a thinned down schedule. Well hell maybe I'll just head down and watch what I can. As long as they got some match on, I shouldn't be complaining:)

Cuevas - Thiem is supposed to be on in five minutes.
 

CivicLx

Hall of Fame
Cuevas - Thiem is supposed to be on in five minutes.
Thanks ruerooo. I'm just wondering how long after that match will it be before they reshow Novak and buttpicker:D Damn you Cuevas...had you been someone that I was more familiar with, I would not be second guessing how badly I want to watch tennis and I would be watching it right now:D
 

rh310

Hall of Fame
Pathetic play by Nole. Very sad. :(
Very few good shots.

I dunno. The encouraging thing I took away from the match is a few times towards the end where he seemed to be genuinely smiling / enjoying being on the court.

That feeling is going to be essential to Djokovic creating Ultron 2. He's got lots of money, a family he probably loves being with, and he was practically unbeatable for a few years straight.

He got burned out, and his play and results over the past year showed it. He has to want to play tennis again before anything good will happen for him.
 

ChrisRF

Legend
Sure. I personally prefer not to have a heart attack. Thank you! :)
No problem! Different People, different preferences. :)

But how is it when you check the result? Or the moments before that? Not worried about a heart attack then? That can be way more dramatic than a live match which may always be a whitewash without critical situations as well. I couldn't stand the 50/50 moment of just looking for the result to be honest. :D
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
Pathetic play by Nole. Very sad. :(
Very few good shots.

He showed some of his old fire at the end so who knows (1st set was terrible though), things can change quickly in tennis. Has to be said that Nadal didn't make things easy for Novak, people talk about Fed's BH but to me Nadal improved off that wing almost as much this year, his form is scary on clay right now.
 
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cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Stop lying , in order to win Argument. You said Nadal always had Novaks number on " Clay " barring 2011. You didnt mention French Open .
The record of Novak and Fed against Rafa at French Open is known to everyone by now . There is no debate there.
I am talking about "Clay" ..You cant say Rafa always had Novaks number ,When Novak has defeated him every year on Clay since 2011 except 2012 and at every masters event.
Rome 2 times
monte carlo 2 times
Madrid 1
French Open.

Lying? I don't think so. I said outside of 2011 Madrid and Rome which was a year Djokovic dominated a Nadal in peakity peak form everywhere, Nadal had the upper hand over Djokovic on clay. The last time I checked the FO was played on clay and is the biggest clay event in the sport and you want to discount it? If you look at the FO record which is 6-1 for Nadal and then we are left with the Masters 1000 record outside of 2011, it was 7-4 in favor of Nadal. Thus my comment that Nadal had the upper hand on clay over Djokovic outside of 2011 was correct as the FO + Masters 1000 record during that time was 13-5 for Nadal.

Got it? Nadal is the superior clay court player and their h2h on clay proves that vividly. Nadal at his best on clay trumps Djokovic on clay. 2011 outside of the FO was the outlier where Nadal was his very peak and lost to Djokovic a couple of times at Masters 1000s. Unless Djokovic is at his best or close to it, he won't beat a good form Nadal on clay as I tried to tell people before this Madrid semi-final because we see what happened.
 
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Charleneriva

Hall of Fame
Djokovic: “Nadal deserved to win”

13 May, 2017

Novak Djokovic shared his thoughts after bowing out of the Mutua Madrid Open: “Rafa was obviously a better player today. He deserved to win. He was controlling the game from beginning to the end. His quality was very high. He managed to do whatever he wanted really, especially in the first set. I was getting a lot of balls back. He was serving well. He was using his court positioning well”.

“It’s just one of those days where your opponent is just playing better than you, and you have to be able to say, ‘Congratulations’, and move on”, he said.

“You know, he did get the better of me in most of the stats today, most of the shots. But, as I say, I have lots of good things to take out of this week”.

Despite losing to Nadal for the first time in three years (he had won their last seven clashes), Djokovic was positive about his participation in Madrid.

“It was really good to play in semifinals of big event, and to play against one of the top rivals I have in my life. I haven’t had that feeling in months, so it’s great to feel that”.

“It was a positive week, a positive experience. I take, as I say, more positives than negatives into next week in Rome. As I go along, I hope to continue getting better and getting stronger”.

Source: http://www.madrid-open.com/en/mutua-news/djokovic-nadal-deserved-to-win/
 

underground

G.O.A.T.
This match serves as a slap to some delusional Djokovic fans out there (I'm not pointing my finger at anyone specifically and not necessarily just people in TW), who thinks "Djokovic is back" or "he got unlucky with zoning opponents not his fault". That kind of narrative is exactly what happened to Rafa in 2014-2015. Just look at the way Novak is on the court, now go watch his match against Rafa in Rome last year. It's 2 completely different people.

This actually reminds me of Fed's run at Rome 2013, where he had mediocre results but made the final there (but not beating any top 20 players on route). People's hypes got up and were hoping for a decent fight at least then Fed got destroyed 1 and 3.
 
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Mainad

Bionic Poster
Nadal's first win over Djokovic in THREE years. Sounds crazy!

This should boost Nadal's confidence even more with Rome and then RG just round the corner. No longer is he just beating lower-ranked players, he is now back to beating the best!!
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
djokovic looked pathetic (except for the last game). looks like he has no desire to play tennis. his game was so passive today.
wrong!

he did not play that bad for most of the match. Nadal just squeezed him and the pressure got to Djokovic, revealing his mental fragility atm, hence he made errors.

he actually tried to play too aggressive, not passive.
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Fed fans should be very encouraged with this result.

Djok was the player who solved Nadal when Rafa was dominating. Djok always "got up" to pay Rafa and Fed. This suggests that his days of being able to simply "flip a switch" and dominate Fed and Rafa are drawing to a close.

Of course Djokovic wasn't going to flip a switch and beat Nadal in this Madrid SF based on their respective forms. That should have been obvious to anybody watching tennis for the past year. However, to say that Djokovic will never make any sort of comeback is way too premature.

Nadal for example was unable to make it past the QF of slams for a few years and he was losing to mug after mug. Look at him now? As I've said time and time again on this forum, give Djokovic some time because if he's still motivated, things may change in a few months or longer. Djokovic won't however be good enough in time to win this FO. That should be obvious to even the most deluded fans by now.

As for Nadal solving Djokovic or vice versa, their rivalry has always been one where their head to head success over each other went back and forth depending on their respective forms, injuries, the surface they were playing on, etc. over the years. Both have had struggles with each other at different points throughout their careers. This is just another phase of something that has happened their entire careers.

As for Fed fans being encouraged about Djokovic, Djokovic was never the main threat to Federer's slam count. Djokovic lost too many important slams in his peak for him to have ever had a realistic chance of surpassing Fed's slam record. Even if Djokovic gets himself together again (and I'm pretty sure he will), winning seven more slams at this stage seems like a near impossible task. Nadal has always been the bigger threat to Fed's slam record especially since Nadal owned Federer in slams back in the day. I think it will be very difficult for Nadal to surpass Fed's slam count and win five more slams at this stage, but for sure he was always a bigger threat than Djokovic ever was.
 
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Charleneriva

Hall of Fame
Rafael Nadal: 'Today I knew that circumstances were completely different than the past two years'

Today Rafael Nadal knew it was the right time to break Novak Djokovic's seven matches winning streak against him. The Spaniard player, at the end of the match, said: 'The circumstances nowadays are completely different compared to those seven matches that occurred before. I think that the last two years perhaps haven't been my best two years. For Novak, they were. They were really good years for Novak. Today's match was a tough match, a match that I went into the court knowing sometimes these kind of tournaments, even when you play them well, you cannot win them. But today I managed to win the match. I think I played a really good first set. The second set I was a little bit more nervous. I played a little bit shorter. I think then the match was a little bit more even. I changed less directions, I needed to play more shots down the line with my forehand. Finally I managed to win it. It's a very important victory. It gives me the possibility to play another final and to continue in a positive line.'

In the second set he said that started feeling nervous. Is that because Novak was coming up? 'No. I get nervous because it was an important match for me. I lost a lot of times in a row. To break that thing is always... There is always nerves. I am humble enough to come here and say that I was nervous, no? Especially with that 40-15, then breakpoint for him, that was a very hard moment for me. But I accept that situation, try to keep fighting for the next point. That's it. I think is a great result. To win against Novak with that score, you should be playing very well. If not, it's impossible.'

Djokovic said before that Rafa is the favorite for Roland Garros. That's how Nadal commented: 'Well, I said it yesterday. At the end you like to talk about this thing, the press likes to talk about this. I just try to walk my way through. Then when we get to Paris, you will be talking again about the favorites and not the favorites. After all, to talk about all of this right now, we can talk until tomorrow, but it's nonsense. The only favorite is the one that plays really well during those two weeks. The reality is that whoever achieves that is going to be able to win the trophy the second Sunday. I know that I am playing well. I'm in a good way. I started the year really well. I'm in a very important final, important tournament. That's the only thing I'm thinking about right now. All the other things, regarding tennis, I don't really care about that.'

We've seen he played Djokovic a lot to his backhand. Asked if he thinks that's one of the keys of the match, Nadal replied: 'No, I haven't seen that, at least from my humble point of view. I think it's not a good idea to play a lot against his backhand. Actually, when I started to play to his backhand quite often, I had more problems because he started to dominate the court a little bit more. To play Novak's backhand is not a tactic. I don't think it's what I should do. After that, if I'm playing really well with my forehand. I'm a lefty. I normally do cross-court. When I start points, I always try to hit the ball cross-court. That's my game. I know to have chances against him, it's important to change the direction of the ball continuously. If I continuously play to his backhand, so it won't be easy.'

Speaking about the potential final against Dominic Thiem or Pablo Cuevas, Nadal said: 'It's going to be a tough match whoever I face tomorrow. That's the reality. We're saying I will be playing against Thiem. He's No. 3 in the Race, came from the final in Barcelona. He's young, has a lot of talent. I think the altitude helps him here. The ball bounces high and it's difficult to control. Talking about Pablo, it's more or less the same. He is doing really well. He played really well in Monte-Carlo, when he beat Wawrinka. Playing really well, then he lost after that. But it was a very tight match, too. Whoever is my opponent tomorrow, it's going to be a very tough match. The only way to win these kinds of tournaments, because you are playing some of the best players in the world, so you have to play at a very high level to be able to beat them.'

Source: http://www.**************.org/news/...ompletely-different-than-the-past-two-years-/
 
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cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal's first win over Djokovic in THREE years. Sounds crazy!

This should boost Nadal's confidence even more with Rome and then RG just round the corner. No longer is he just beating lower-ranked players, he is now back to beating the best!!

The "haters" ( I hate that word) are going to run out of "good and competitive" players that Nadal in this form on clay would "never" dream of beating. Kyrgios? Check. Goffin? Check. Thiem? Check. Djokovic (who was never in any shape to beat this Nadal on clay)? Check. Which potential clay giant will take down Nadal next? Murray in his current form? LOL. Wawrinka? Doubtful. The funny part is that probably only a madman Federer could take this Nadal out on clay and that won't be easy in best of five at the FO for Federer.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
Of course Djokovic wasn't going to flip a switch and beat Nadal in this Madrid final based on their respective forms. That should have been obvious to anybody watching tennis for the past year. However, to say that Djokovic will never make any sort of comeback is way too premature.

Nadal for example was unable to make it past the QF of slams for a few years and he was losing to mug after mug. Look at him now? As I've said time and time again on this forum, give Djokovic some time because if he's still motivated, things may change in a few months or longer. Djokovic won't however be good enough in time to win this FO. That should be obvious to even the most deluded fans by now.

As for Nadal solving Djokovic or vice versa, their rivalry has always been one where their head to head success over each other went back and forth depending on their respective forms, injuries, the surface they were playing on, etc. over the years. Both have had struggles with each other at different points throughout their careers. This is just another phase of something that has happened their entire careers.

As for Fed fans being encouraged about Djokovic, Djokovic was never the main threat to Federer's slam count. Djokovic lost too many important slams in his peak for him to have ever had a realistic chance of surpassing Fed's slam record. Even if Djokovic gets himself together again (and I'm pretty sure he will), winning seven more slams at this stage seems like a near impossible task. Nadal was always and has always been the bigger threat to Fed's slam record especially since Nadal owned Federer in slams back in the day. I think it will be very difficult for Nadal to surpass Fed's slam count and win five more slams at this stage, but for sure he was always a bigger threat than Djokovic ever was.
Nadal was coping with injury after injury and lost confidence in his body. He had more than 15 months sidelined with injury and appendicitis surgery. No comparison with Djokovic's loss of form whatsoever.
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal was coping with injury after injury and lost confidence in his body. He had more than 15 months sidelined with injury and appendicitis surgery. No comparison with Djokovic's loss of form whatsoever.

It doesn't matter what the reasons were and whether they were physical or mental or a combo of both. The point it that Nadal had his struggles for a few years and wasn't playing his best. That is happening to Djokovic now and Djokovic will probably make some sort of comeback at some point in time IF he is motivated to do so. The Djokovic-Nadal rivalry has always been up and down where one player was controlling the proceedings and then the other for various reasons.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
It doesn't matter what the reasons were and whether they were physical or mental or a combo of both. The point it that Nadal had his struggles for a few years and wasn't playing his best. That is happening to Djokovic now and Djokovic will probably make some sort of comeback at some point in time IF he is motivated to do so. The Djokovic-Nadal rivalry has always been up and down where one player was controlling the proceedings and then the other for various reasons.
It doesn't matter what the reasons were and whether they were physical or mental or a combo of both. The point it that Nadal had his struggles for a few years and wasn't playing his best. That is happening to Djokovic now and Djokovic will probably make some sort of comeback at some point in time IF he is motivated to do so. The Djokovic-Nadal rivalry has always been up and down where one player was controlling the proceedings and then the other for various reasons.
It matters a great deal if you lose form for no apparent reason, it could mean you are on the decline. If you lose form because of injury it's a completely different matter.
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
It matters a great deal if you lose form for no apparent reason, it could mean you are on the decline. If you lose form because of injury it's a completely different matter.

Nadal and Djokovic are both past peak and are on the decline. This Nadal isn't the Nadal at his peak/prime but he's managed to find some good form and he's an ATG in a sea of second tier players (outside of the Big Four.) Djokovic could very well find some decent form again too but it won't be in time to beat Nadal in this form at the FO 2017 unless a miracle happens.
 

cucio

Legend
Seeing you after years @cucio !!! All well ?

Salutations, Senti-man! As well as can be in these strange times we all are living through. What about you?

How are things around here? Strong or weak poasting era? Is the fresh green army replenishing its ranks at an acceptable rate?

Hey, I just looked at my join date. 10 years already! Man, I'm getting old for this, I should retire.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Djok always "got up" to pay Rafa and Fed. This suggests that his days of being able to simply "flip a switch" and dominate Fed and Rafa are drawing to a close

Not "drawing to a close," but rather "completely ended." Nole is 100% Wilander and Courier on their last mental legs.
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
No. This is the final stake through Nole's heart. This beatdown will humiliate him and further mentally destroy him.

There's nothing final about anything in tennis until a player retires. Djokovic has humiliated Nadal for a few years when Nadal was struggling. It's payback time for a good form Nadal against a struggling Djokovic. But to say that anything is final between these two players if they are still motivated is silly. Their rivalry has always been a back and forth thing with Nadal dominating and then Djokovic, etc.

All this means is that for right now and for this upcoming FO, Nadal is the heavy favorite. Djokovic has to be at his best to beat a Nadal in good form on clay. Djokovic doesn't have enough time to be his best for this FO IMO. As I said on another thread, the funniest part is that Federer is in better shape to take out Nadal at the FO than Djokovic is assuming Federer shows up in his AO/IW/Miami form. But the truth is, it's doubtful that Federer will beat this Nadal at the FO. I would have to see it to believe it.
 
D

Deleted member 512391

Guest
Didn't watch the match, but, judging by the result, it was a beatdown. Have to admit, I didn't expect such an easy victory for Nadal, but his form is obviously extremely good. It's scary to think how good his 2017 season would have looked like, if it wasn't for Federer, who denied him winning a Major and possibly one or two Masters titles.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal and Djokovic are both past peak and are on the decline. This Nadal isn't the Nadal at his peak/prime but he's managed to find some good form and he's an ATG in a sea of second tier players (outside of the Big Four.) Djokovic could very well find some decent form again too but it won't be in time to beat Nadal in this form at the FO 2017 unless a miracle happens.
Whatever.
 

Subway Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Didn't watch the match, but, judging by the result, it was a beatdown. Have to admit, I didn't expect such an easy victory for Nadal, but his form is obviously extremely good. It's scary to think how good his 2017 season would have looked like, if it wasn't for Federer, who denied him winning a Major and possibly one or two Masters titles.

Nadal played incredible tennis and it was categorical. But that was not the normal Djokovic we know. He looked mentally absent and really only got his teeth into the match once it was over and he felt relaxed enough to swing out without pressure. But by then the match was too far gone and Nadal's confidence was through the roof. Nadal was tracking down pretty much everything and also serving through the roof. Djokovic hit some great crosscourt backhands that would be winners against anyone else. Nadal was just tracking them down and pummelling them up the line for winners. Djokovic can end points that way against anyone else but Nadal was on a mission.

I feel like this match might have been fairly important in their rivalry. All the ground Nadal has made this year going back to the top of the game would've been for nothing if Djokovic had proven to still be a mental block for him.

But as it stands, Nadal won and it means a lot:
- He has incredible momentum at the moment and is now leading the ATP race
- He has reversed the losing trend against his biggest (only?) rival on clay
- His serve is working
- His court position is perfect
- He is attacking on the return and MASSIVELY on the forehand
- His backhand may be the best I have ever seen it on clay a.t.m.
- He is back to being able to rely heavily on his court movement if he needs to but is also not having to defend the court as much. Best of both worlds and it is really freeing him up mentally.
 
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ruerooo

Legend
Nadal played incredible tennis and it was categorical. But that was not the Djokovic we know.

It's still great for Nadal, though.

- He has incredible momentum at the moment and is leading the ATP race
- He has reversed the losing trend against his biggest (only?) rival on clay
- His serve is working
- His court position is perfect
- He is attacking on the return and MASSIVELY on the forehand
- His backhand may be the best I have ever seen it on clay a.t.m.
- He is back to being able to rely heavily on his court movement if he needs to but is also not having to defend the court as much. Best of both worlds and it is really freeing him up mentally.

And he's healthy! :D
 

Charleneriva

Hall of Fame
I feel like this match might have been fairly important in their rivalry. All the ground Nadal has made this year going back to the top of the game would've been for nothing if Djokovic had proven to still be a mental block for him.

Very important, yes. At least on Rafa's side because he said so at the post-match presser. But before the match he also said that this match wouldn't affect his season, which has been fantastic to him already. :)
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
Nadal was coping with injury after injury and lost confidence in his body. He had more than 15 months sidelined with injury and appendicitis surgery. No comparison with Djokovic's loss of form whatsoever.
No need to come up with excuses. Nadal's level collapsed the last two years or so and no, no one thinks it because of injuries. No one.

But he stayed on and kept fighting and now has returned to greater levels. I suspect we will see something similar with Nole.
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
There's nothing final about anything in tennis until a player retires. Djokovic has humiliated Nadal for a few years when Nadal was struggling. It's payback time for a good form Nadal against a struggling Djokovic. But to say that anything is final between these two players if they are still motivated is silly. Their rivalry has always been a back and forth thing with Nadal dominating and then Djokovic, etc.

All this means is that for right now and for this upcoming FO, Nadal is the heavy favorite. Djokovic has to be at his best to beat a Nadal in good form on clay. Djokovic doesn't have enough time to be his best for this FO IMO. As I said on another thread, the funniest part is that Federer is in better shape to take out Nadal at the FO than Djokovic is assuming Federer shows up in his AO/IW/Miami form. But the truth is, it's doubtful that Federer will beat this Nadal at the FO. I would have to see it to believe it.
I really don't get all this "Nole is finished" nonsense. Have we learned nothing from Federer and Nadal? How many times did we read that both would never win another important tournament again. These ATGs are all time greats for a reason.
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
Funny, watching the match one would guess Nadal is the younger one. If I had to describe Nole's play it would be "rusty". Maybe it is as Becker has said, that Nole simply isn't training enough.
 
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