2017 Miami SF - [4] Roger Federer vs [12] Nick Kyrgios

Who wins?

  • Fed in 2

    Votes: 30 25.0%
  • Fed in 3

    Votes: 39 32.5%
  • Kyrgios in 3

    Votes: 36 30.0%
  • Kyrgios in 2

    Votes: 15 12.5%

  • Total voters
    120

guanzishou

G.O.A.T.
Go and get my dinner ready.
There you go, your Royal Highnass

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Dilexson

Hall of Fame
here is the text of Nick's post match comments:

Nick Kyrgios: 'The match was on my racquet for most of the time'
Nothing wrong about that. It's just his view.
He might be exaggerating with 'most of the time' as it was Fed who was in control of the rallies most of the time. He was into Nick's service games more times than vice versa.
But self belief is a must, especially for an up and comer.
 
D

Deleted member 3771

Guest
Nothing wrong about that. It's just his view.
He might be exaggerating with 'most of the time' as it was Fed who was in control of the rallies most of the time. He was into Nick's service games more times than vice versa.
But self belief is a must, especially for an up and comer.

I agree. I thought it was a great match because both played to their strengths, and it was as close as it gets.
 

Feather

Legend
Disagree, I'd say these were quite favourable conditions for him. Slow HC allows him to get into his opponent's service games and play more rallies while his own serve is still lethal even on these slow courts/conditions. I don't see him having as much success on faster courts until he improves his ROS and movement.

Kyrgios is not really an aggressive 1st strike player people make him out to be, his playing style is more similar to Roddick (who won Miami twice and beat Fed and Nadal there) than Tsonga or Safin.

Very well said Zagor. I am more worried about Roger when he plays Nick on Miami than on Cincinnati. You need great movement and ROS to excel on fast courts.
 

PeteD

Legend
Nothing wrong about that. It's just his view.
He might be exaggerating with 'most of the time' as it was Fed who was in control of the rallies most of the time. He was into Nick's service games more times than vice versa.
But self belief is a must, especially for an up and comer.
Fed went deeper into Nick's games pretty consistently -- I recall thinking early in the match that TBs would go to Fed, even though Fed's 1st serve was disappointing.
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
Very well said Zagor. I am more worried about Roger when he plays Nick on Miami than on Cincinnati. You need great movement and ROS to excel on fast courts.

One point I just remembered re Roddick. Yes, he won Miami but he also won Cincy and twice as well. His only slam was at the USO when it played fast or at least faster than in the last few years and he made a final again there, plus three Wimbledon finals. MAYBE he just matched up worse against Roger on fast HC than slow HC (where he beat Roger in 2012 - Miami) because Roger himself plays better on fast HC than slow, esp post prime. I think the same may apply to Kyrgios. He will find Fed a worse match up on fast HC than slow HC but he will probably fare better against the field as such on fast HC because there he can power through and not allow them to get into long rallies. While his movement is not amazing, he is not like Isner by any means and even Isner has had good results at the USO in the past. A grinding style of baseline tennis is what is most popular today in men's tennis and Kyrgios doesn't really grind so for him fast surfaces work better imo. And because of how much he uses his wrist, I don't think his forehand holds up that well anyway in a long rally and is liable to mishit.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Well, after watching this tournament I see I was wrong about k. The man has major game and his serve is one of the best in tour, not to mention the fact that it is very reliable. He showed a competitive heart last night the entire match. First set hold aster 10 minutes gave me a clue.

However, his on court shananigans in the past have earned him a villain's reputation and it will follow him whenever he plays another crowd fav.

Fed knows that K has the ability and heart to compete at the highest level now. There is no screaming weakness in his game and he, unlike so many others, will attack with variety. I loved the match. I personally think he needs to acknowledge his previous behavior and let thentennis world know that he intends to turn over a new leaf. Then he needs to stop interacting with the crowd for a while and kill them with kindness every chance he gets.a player with his talent can win crowds over eventually. Needs a coach to guide him I think....but that is just me.

Having said all that, if he remains coachless and continues to play the villain, that could make his ,at he's interesting as well for us.
Hewitt has been helping on some big things and its really showing.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
You both missed a tremendous match -- compulsive viewing. I highly recommend watching it in full.

If not, here are some highlights...



But really, I think this was a special match when taking into account the combination of the level of play, drama, and emotions. I'll remember it for a very long time. There was so much personality and expression in this match from BOTH players. This is as feisty and angry as Federer gets. I don't know if these highlights will convey that and show the reactions of the players between the points.. I haven't watched them.
A match to be treasured. Federer continuing to add to his own greatness with amazing 2017 faces off against future great 14 years his junior.:eek: History may look back at this match and year as a battle of the ages. Hopefully Kyrgios makes runs at Wimbledon and US Open and the draw allows a big final between these two.
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Meles

Bionic Poster
Damn it Nick, why did you have to make so many moronic decisions with the big 2nd serve on big points :( :( :(
Awesome match, worth staying late to watch it, but nasty choke from Nick.
Screaming at my screen not to go for the bomb 2nd throughout this match and Nick held back by in large, but not on those two points.:mad: Normally he's great at those 2nd serves, but was just not the shot with the whithering pressure he faced throughout the match. Fed was feeling the pressure too and easily could have gifted something to Nick if he'd just had the discipline to put a solid 2nd serve in play.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Monfils handled that nicely in Paris when Fed was going for the RG title in 2009. It was hard for Monfils to see the French crowd not cheering for him, but he understood and respected that.

Honestly, how often do see a player smashing a racquet while the winner is waiting at the net to shake his hand?! I can't recall seeing that!
The cherry on top of the Sundae.:D
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
As you know, my only worry re Nick is his return. His service game is A all the way, but with guys his height we should expect better results than even guys like Fed and Sampras. The problem is that if he has an extra couple percent in serving - which should be his absolute ceiling in service games - he has to be no less than a couple % points down on returning. Sampras server at almost 89% on games for his whole career, all surfaces, and that is throwing in an awful record on clay.

I make fun of ATP stats, but sometimes they are good for a reality check:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/stats/service-games-won

Even though the ATP leaves out Davis Cup and TBs, that data is very close to what I get for any player when I have all the matches and all the games.

We can figure that around 92% is the limit, and that's with a guy who is a lot taller than Nick. 90-91% is probably realistic.

Nick is at 87% now. That's misleading because his career so far is very short, and he obviously has not peaked. But even when we look at this year, on clay, 92% on AS means HCs, because there is really no other surface in play yet.

So checking back we can see Karlovic at the top, again, at 92%. No one is voting for Karlovic to go out as an ATG.

I'm figuring Nick has to get his serving to around 93% and returning at around 25% or higher to be a lock for majors. He can still snag one or two below that, but to be the kind of future ATG we are all hoping to see he has to keep his numbers up for a year, at least on some surface. To me that means more dedication to fitness and settling down with a serious coach.

And for God's sake, get rid of Monfils-type showboating!
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
As you know, my only worry re Nick is his return. His service game is A all the way, but with guys his height we should expect better results than even guys like Fed and Sampras. The problem is that if he has an extra couple percent in serving - which should be his absolute ceiling in service games - he has to be no less than a couple % points down on returning. Sampras server at almost 89% on games for his whole career, all surfaces, and that is throwing in an awful record on clay.

I make fun of ATP stats, but sometimes they are good for a reality check:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/stats/service-games-won

Even though the ATP leaves out Davis Cup and TBs, that data is very close to what I get for any player when I have all the matches and all the games.

We can figure that around 92% is the limit, and that's with a guy who is a lot taller than Nick. 90-91% is probably realistic.

Nick is at 87% now. That's misleading because his career so far is very short, and he obviously has not peaked. But even when we look at this year, on clay, 92% on AS means HCs, because there is really no other surface in play yet.

So checking back we can see Karlovic at the top, again, at 92%. No one is voting for Karlovic to go out as an ATG.

I'm figuring Nick has to get his serving to around 93% and returning at around 25% or higher to be a lock for majors. He can still snag one or two below that, but to be the kind of future ATG we are all hoping to see he has to keep his numbers up for a year, at least on some surface. To me that means more dedication to fitness and settling down with a serious coach.

And for God's sake, get rid of Monfils-type showboating!
Very realistic numbers and its best to compare peak years to peak years rather than trying to use the Kyrgios career at this point.

The key to watch for both Zverev and Kyrgios will be their return game. Kyrgios will never be as good as Fed on return, but he's already better than all but Roddick's best peak years with a serve game to match and all the intangibles. If Kyrgios moves from 37% points won on return to 38% suddenly I think we have a player similar to Sampras, but perhaps more of a super Roddick. Zverev will never have the serve game of Kyrgios, but he's improving. Zed has got to return better and he did it last Fall for a stretch (won nearly an amazing 41% of return points.) These small changes in return points percents change into big changes in the return games numbers. They both are very close and neither has reached their speed peak, so this could really get sickly good for both players.:D
 
"It was on my racquet." Deluded. Federer was far closer to breaking him numerous times during the match.

"It's biased, you all know it." Translation - Poor me, everyone is against me. It rings a little hollow to be the tough guy and be the whiny guy at the same time. Charmless as ever.

You obviously don't like Nick and that is fine. He did say Federer played great but he's right: the match was on his racket. He hadn't been broken in 3 matches when he served for the first set and he was up 5-4 in the 3rd set tiebreak with 2 serves coming up.
 

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
I maintain that Kyrgios is hard to judge by statistics cause his level fluctuates so much with his mentality. I'm starting to think that his forehand is kind of a weakness in some ways too.
 

Gazelle

G.O.A.T.
I maintain that Kyrgios is hard to judge by statistics cause his level fluctuates so much with his mentality. I'm starting to think that his forehand is kind of a weakness in some ways too.

It's so close to be an all time great forehand, if only he eliminated the unnecessary extra Sock-like movement on it. He's complicating his timing, making for more mishits and breakdowns under pressure. He seems to hit a lot of funky spin, I'd like to see him flatten out it a bit for a more penetrating forehand.
 

Zetty

Hall of Fame
Kyrgios doesn't deserve to be credited because of his pathetic behavior.
This is the type of stuff I just can't understand, he was upset he didn't win and annoyed with the crowd, but that somehow takes away from the credit he should receive for putting on a great tennis match? What did he do that would make him deserving of the level of hatred like this, it's just overly emotional.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
And for God's sake, get rid of Monfils-type showboating!

The difference is that Nick usually hits a winner off his tweeners and showboating shots. Monfils almost never did. There's very little similar in their games except superficially. Nick is the much better player: better serve, better from the back of the court and mentally much stronger.

Why shouldn't Nick continue his showboating shots? They electrify the crowd and he hits winners off them most of the time.;)
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
The difference is that Nick usually hits a winner off his tweeners and showboating shots. Monfils almost never did. There's very little similar in their games except superficially. Nick is the much better player: better serve, better from the back of the court and mentally much stronger.

Why shouldn't Nick continue his showboating shots? They electrify the crowd and he hits winners off them most of the time.;)
Because those showboat shots are eventually going to cost him big matches, just like going for broke on 2nd serve at the wrong time and other decisions he makes.
 

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
It's so close to be an all time great forehand, if only he eliminated the unnecessary extra Sock-like movement on it. He's complicating his timing, making for more mishits and breakdowns under pressure. He seems to hit a lot of funky spin, I'd like to see him flatten out it a bit for a more penetrating forehand.
Kyrgios' forehand is all flash and not that much substance on average. He kinda plays like a counter puncher. He can pummel the sitters, but his forehand is more flash than substance
 

SinjinCooper

Hall of Fame
Funny thing, the rowdy Miami crowd that openly favors Federer over all others and shows such disrespec to his opponents seems to have been replaced for the final. It's almost as if this new crowd respects both players, so long as both players act like professionals.

Huh.
 

a10best

Hall of Fame
Crowd was way too much for Fed. That crucial TB point whre someone shouted "out" should have been replayed at 5-all in the 3rd.
 

guanzishou

G.O.A.T.
The ATP Rulebook, page 178:
1) Aggravated Behavior
a) No player, their coaches, Physiotherapist, therapist, physician, management representative, agent, family member, tournament guest, business associate or other affi liate or associate of any player (“Related Persons”), or any other person who receives accreditation at an Event at the request of the player or any other Related Person, at any ATP World Tour or ATP Challenger Tour tournament shall engage in aggravated behavior...¤¤

https://twitter.com/BenRothenberg/status/847978358906519552/photo/1
Roger-Federer-trophy-170402G300.jpg



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every7

Hall of Fame
I am still recovering from the insanity of the Fedr vs Kyrgios semi.

There was so much testosterone in the atmosphere at Crandon Park from these two warriors that 1/3 of the women of age in the stadium will accidentally fall pregnent from the mist of virility rising from court level into the stands. They are going to have to crop spray the whole of Miami...............

The best (ATP) match of 2017 by an absolute mile and unlikely to be matched until we see them meet again hopefully at Wimbledon and USO (where I think Kyrgios will have the edge)
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
Funny thing, the rowdy Miami crowd that openly favors Federer over all others and shows such disrespec to his opponents seems to have been replaced for the final. It's almost as if this new crowd respects both players, so long as both players act like professionals.

Huh.
Er no. There was still the same obnoxious bunch in final shouting during serves and rallies and acting like savages. Less polarized but still thoroughly uncouth. Not typical tennis fans imo. People attracted to a couple of players with superstar status. That is why they don't have a clue about the sport "etiquette" or give a damn about fair play. Vociferating , unappreciative and undisciplined pack.
 

Sereger

Hall of Fame
After watching the final, It was clear that Nick offered the spectators the reason to offend him. Changes (in better way) must be started and made by him at first.
 

smoledman

G.O.A.T.
After watching the final, It was clear that Nick offered the spectators the reason to offend him. Changes (in better way) must be started and made by him at first.

Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes (turn and face the strain) Ch-ch-changes. Oh, look out you rock n rollers. Ch-ch-ch-ch- ...
 
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