2017 Monte Carlo Final - [4] Rafael Nadal vs [15] Albert Ramos-Vinolas

Who wins the title?

  • Total voters
    57
clayqueen said:
Rafa haters
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-NN- said:
Congrats to Nadal. 10 is one more than 9, hence it's superior. Maybe he can make it 11 next year (which is one more than 10).
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When he said "See you next year" I just about fell over, LOL

I mean, we expect nothing less from one of the hardest working men on the tour, but ...

:D
 
Chanwan said:
Not positive, but I remember the commentators saying 20 degrees before the first semi. Or it might have been Friday actually.
Also, turns out, 20 ain't 75 but a mere 68 (C to F ain't the easiest of tasks unless you're used to it). And I think it was cooler than that earlier in the week
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I've been checking temperatures hourly so I know what the weather has been like. But when you are running hard and the sun is out, you can still get very hot. Today it was overcast.

I just know that when you see people with windbreakers on, it ain't warm!

I have it wired in my brain that:

68=20
77=25
86=30

And that between 25 and 30 is very uncomfortable indoors. :D
 
Did not see this one..Congrats to Nadal blnt Vinolas ,another Masters 1k title and now most titles on Clay.

Other news Murray accepted wild card draw and will play in Muta Madrid

Cheers
3Fees :)
 
Gary Duane said:
I agree with you, and I think it is wrong.

But I also understand why he doesn't change, because the violations are so random. If I like playing at a particular pace and I know I am going to be called on it maybe once a match, I'll just wait for the call and basically not change.

I'm a teacher. I work with people day in and day out, and I can tell you that people don't change anything, even when they need to, unless you repeatedly make the same point, and it can take months, even with children.

Habits are hard to break.

Once someone thinks anything helps and it becomes an emotional prop, it becomes "necessary". It's the same thing with Novak bouncing the ball more than 10 times, sometimes as many as 20.

That's not helping his game. But he THINKS it does, so he does it. And that sends him over almost as much as Nadal. Not as bad, but close.

On the other hand, Fed feels that two or three short bounces are what he needs, and that getting on with it as quickly as possible is best for him. So that's what he does.

Kyrgios in the last year has gone to both extremes, almost zero time between points and insane ball bouncing.

I've argued for a clock for years. That's the only thing that will stop this, but IF a couple guys get to the top who are fast players, then the time could be enforced. With Murray, Novak and Nadal at the top? Not gonna happen!
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Exactly
 
Bender said:
Thanks @mike danny!

Shame about the Goffin debacle though; puts a blemish on this win for me, not that it matters to him really!
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It's a blemish on Mourier's umpiring career, Nadal was on the other side of the court. Mourier cost us a more interesting match but Goffin deflating so easily after one bad call IMO shows he was running on fumes and was not gonna last the distance unless he blitzed Nadal in straights or something (extremely unlikely proposition).

There's a reason lesser (relatively speaking in Goffin's case) players nearly always lose in the next round when they beat a star of the game, even if said star is in a slump.
 
Love you Rafa! Clay GOAT. :):):):):)

I only saw the final but I knew he would win. MC is his home. Novak just rents there. ;)

I prefer Roger and Rafa to stay away from each other and from Novak as much as possible. :oops::oops:
 
Chanwan said:
I agree that there are lots of positives from a Rafa fan perspective:
- serve, better than it's been in a long while
- backhand, very stable all year and he's hitting it very well dtl, when he needs to
- defense, not at his best, but still better than the past 2 seasons
- return, never really went away
- volleys, never really went away
- forehand, doing damage again, even some dtl screamers. Still making a few more errors and hitting it short, when pushed.

Still - at times he got bullied in the rallies by Schwartsman and he got broken 4 times in 2 sets. 4 times. That's a fair amount. Goffin played (a bit) better than him until the Mourier mistake. And Edmund's forehand completely handcuffed him for a time (but then again, how to defend against a redlining forehand like that?)

Rafa fans, your thoughts? @eliars @ruerooo
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I've been busy and havn't seen much from MC, but from the little I've seen this week, I'm most of all reminded by why Rafa is still so good on clay, even though he's removed from his prime.

His movement. He moves so well on clay. Just kept being reminded by his ability to reset the rallies, especially when pushed to his forehand side, which is where he'd leak errors had this been a hardcourt.
In 'up-tempo' rallies, he has more time to plant his feet and rotate his feet and body properly, getting much more pop and sting on his forehand, a rhythm he simply can't sustain on HC, unless he's playing extremely well.

Otherwise agree with your segmentation. Serve working well, backhand stable and forehand still prone to landing short. Still some other stuff not there, that removes him from his peak (like not using his forehand as much as before; io-FHs - which is okay considered diminished speed and also helps stabilizing his backhand, yet those BHs will never be as powerful and effective as when he use to run around them hitting the fearhand)

What pleases me most is seeing Nadal on clay again and to see how his weaknesses exposed on HC this year are more easily covered up on the red dust, that in return just enhances his strengths.
I hope someone steps up to the plate and tries to expose Nadal's weaknesses here, like a resurgent Djokovic, Murray, Slaminal, Federer and the #NextGen :rolleyes: to hopefully see Nadal tighten up his game. Would be lovely to see something resembling a prime Nadal on clay yet again. Just one more time.
 
eliars said:
I've been busy and havn't seen much from MC, but from the little I've seen this week, I'm most of all reminded by why Rafa is still so good on clay, even though he's removed from his prime.

His movement. He moves so well on clay. Just kept being reminded by his ability to reset the rallies, especially when pushed to his forehand side, which is where he'd leak errors had this been a hardcourt.
In 'up-tempo' rallies, he has more time to plant his feet and rotate his feet and body properly, getting much more pop and sting on his forehand, a rhythm he simply can't sustain on HC, unless he's playing extremely well.

Otherwise agree with your segmentation. Serve working well, backhand stable and forehand still prone to landing short. Still some other stuff not there, that removes him from his peak (like not using his forehand as much as before; io-FHs - which is okay considered diminished speed and also helps stabilizing his backhand, yet those BHs will never be as powerful and effective as when he use to run around them hitting the fearhand)

What pleases me most is seeing Nadal on clay again and to see how his weaknesses exposed on HC this year are more easily covered up on the red dust, that in return just enhances his strengths.
I hope someone steps up to the plate and tries to expose Nadal's weaknesses here, like a resurgent Djokovic, Murray, Slaminal, Federer and the #NextGen :rolleyes: to hopefully see Nadal tighten up his game. Would be lovely to see something resembling a prime Nadal on clay yet again. Just one more time.
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Good points all around, especially the first bold is something I saw, but did not formulate in a thought.
I wrote something about his natural abilities on clay earlier in the thread:
Chanwan said:
Even though Rafa is a fair bit removed from his best clay court days, he's still showing he's a natural on the surface like few others.
The forehand, the court sense, the gets, the patience, the ability to reset the point with a 'moonball', the sliding, the knowledge of when to move in and when to pounce. Well done.
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Only Diego Schwartzman missed out on a bagel or bread stick treat.
 
Mustard said:
It's incredible what Nadal has done this week.
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He beat a bunch of mugs at an event that's basically between a 250 - 500 level event. MC should not even be a masters tourney.

You know what IS impressive? Federer winning AO, IW and Miami.

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cc0509 said:
Of course his play is nowhere near peak level but it doesn't have to be for him to win clay titles as the clay competition is woeful.

As for him being exposed by other players in the next 7 weeks and him getting wiped out from overplaying, good luck with that prediction. Nadal looked extremely solid at the FO last year before he was forced to withdraw with an injury. He puts everything into this part of the clay season and there's no question he will go all out again this year and now he has some confidence winning the MC title after making so many finals in 2017 and coming up short.

I said I would give myself time to see how all players looked on clay before I was confident with a FO prediction but I may have seen enough. Who is going to beat Nadal at the FO in best of five? Thiem? Kyrgios may be a contender but outlasting Nadal in best of five on clay? Doubtful. Wawrinka? I doubt it. Murray? Nope,can't see it. Then we come to Djokovic and unless he improves his clay court game tremendously (which I admit is possible), it's tough to see how he'll stop Nadal at the FO. A couple more clay warm-ups should tell the story to see where Djokovic is at in comparison to Nadal. As for Federer beating Nadal in best of five at the FO, he may have a better shot than any player these days but I don't think he will be able to do it, that is if he decides to play the FO at all.

So for me as of right this minute(which is open to change as the clay season progresses), Nadal is the favorite to win the FO. You need to be careful making such absolute statements such as Nadal will never win another slam or he will never win another FO and I believe you said both. It may come back to haunt you.
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Nadal doesn't look to be moving or playing neutral points as well this year, but the dark storm cloud on the horizon is the Nadal serve game. Its been killing him the last few years and now suddenly with Moya 2017 could be his best year serving of his career. Its exactly what he needs to keep contending for a few more years.:confused: Most here tend to fixate on big points and rallies. The name of the modern game is returning and serving (where one had better check stats for sure;)); an area where Nadal looks suspiciously good right now.:eek: A confident bull coming out of clay season could have some very nice momentum if he continues to peak on serve.:p Nadal only broken 9 times in 9 sets on clay this year.:oops:
 
Meles said:
Nadal doesn't look to be moving or playing neutral points as well this year, but the dark storm cloud on the horizon is the Nadal serve game. Its been killing him the last few years and now suddenly with Moya 2017 could be his best year serving of his career. Its exactly what he needs to keep contending for a few more years.:confused: Most here tend to fixate on big points and rallies. The name of the modern game is returning and serving (where one had better check stats for sure;)); an area where Nadal looks suspiciously good right now.:eek: A confident bull coming out of clay season could have some very nice momentum if he continues to peak on serve.:p Nadal only broken 9 times in 9 sets on clay this year.:oops:
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Nadal's backhand has looked very good and his forehand looked a lot better in MC as well. Also, he's moving very well and his defense looks great for his age.

Bottom line is he looks a lot better than those clueless youngsters you are trying to promote!
 
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