2017 Monte Carlo SF: [4] R. Nadal vs. [10] D. Goffin

Who wins?


  • Total voters
    43

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
He made a MISTAKE. He didn't commit a felony.

What is wrong with you??

Sorry, English is not my first language. Whatever the appropriate word instead, don't want him to be shot, actually. Heard he made mistakes before. Maybe he gets a suspension or warning. It was a mistake, and a big one.
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
Assuming (a big assumption) that Rafa would have lost today, what difference does this match mean in terms of his confidence for the rest of the clay season?

He's a very, very safe bet vs. ARV, but he wasn't a safe bet (albeit still the favorite), when Mourier decided to destroy the match at 2-4.

Is this the difference between Rafa getting on a roll and not? Perhaps a bit yes. And if so, I can def. understood why he accepted the gift.
 

tenisdecente

Hall of Fame
This is what bad calls look like


Yeah, still, this is clay, the ball was marked and he chose another one, not even near to the real one LMAO
Two wrongs dont make one right you know...

He made a MISTAKE. He didn't commit a felony.

What is wrong with you??

This is not a mistake, it is more like kinda felony. Dont forget he had the nerve to OVERRULE the call from the linesman, trying to look like he was completely right

An overrule it is right 95% of the times because the umpires do not want to look like clowns. To overrule, you have to be 150% sure of what you are calling. This guy is an idiot, and as someone else said, I dont remember a so blatant error in pro circuit for a long time ago. @MichaelNadal showed us a great video of Serena being robbed in the US Open against Capriati. That linesman should not be again a linesman, but at least she was not overruling a call
 
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Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
I am taking back the apologies I made earlier.
Here's this guy's criminal record:

http://www.****************.com/2-g...collection-cedric-mouriers-greatest-work.html
 

Krish872007

Talk Tennis Guru
I don't know, and Paul Annacone brought that up, and both of you are right, because whatever they were doing, it wasn't their jobs.

Mourier's a repeat offender as well. There's a widely publicised Troicki incident of course. Then the one with Rafa himself in Madrid a few years back. And then some more footage of him clowning around in a Federer vs Ljubicic match at Indian Wells 9 years ago.
Linesman was probably rolling up a joint and staying as far away as possible

Probably the second worst overrule of all time. Number 1 is this IMO:

 

duaneeo

Legend
3) It's unbelievable that the line judge didn't come verify the mark - can this only happen if requested by the chair ump, or can the player ask for this?

Good question. I've never seen a line judge verify a mark unless requested by the chair.
 

sliceroni

Hall of Fame
I'm liking how these claycourters that I've never heard of are beating the other top guys. Reminds me of the early 90's.
 

chjtennis

G.O.A.T.
Goffin tried hard even after that stupid overrule. That game went over 15 minutes. Goffin should have been given that game and it should've been 4-2. It's so hard to play Nadal at MC with perfectly fair ruling. Getting robbed of that important break would've physically and mentally sapped a lot out of him. Goffin played some long matches to get there and I can certainly understand why it was all one-way traffic from there. Goffin tried to move on, tried so hard to hold that service game, but it was just impossible after such a momentum change and such a physically draining run Goffin had had. It's not fair to blame Goffin. The referee just rigged the match and he should be fined no less than $100,000. You only overrule to make absolutely correct decision but that one wasn't even close. Also, I blame ATP for not using hawkeye in clay events and call for an immediate usage of it from now on. It is us fans' role to pressure and change the rules for the better and we should be very vocal about hawkeye usage in clay events now.
 

Goosehead

Legend
He made a MISTAKE. He didn't commit a felony.

What is wrong with you??
remember what vanilla ice said on his ice ice baby single..way back in 1990 ;) (if we say that the ump was below his best)..

.."anything less than the best is a felony".
 

ruerooo

Legend
remember what vanilla ice said on his ice ice baby single..way back in 1990 ;) (if we say that the ump was below his best)..

.."anything less than the best is a felony".


You're quoting Vanilla Ice.

And expect that to buttress the credibility of your argument?

'kay.

:rolleyes:
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
Assuming (a big assumption) that Rafa would have lost today, what difference does this match mean in terms of his confidence for the rest of the clay season?

He's a very, very safe bet vs. ARV, but he wasn't a safe bet (albeit still the favorite), when Mourier decided to destroy the match at 2-4.

Is this the difference between Rafa getting on a roll and not? Perhaps a bit yes. And if so, I can def. understood why he accepted the gift.

Nah, really don't think Goffin was gonna beat Nadal even if he had won the 1st set (which would still be doubtful even at 4-2, let's be honest, it wasn't a SP). I like the guy, he's a scrapper and a good thinker on court (I like to watch him work the point) but don't think he has the mental and physical fortitude required to deliver two such big wins in a row, you have to be dialled in from start to finish to take out Nadal on clay and I think Goffin was gonna let up eventually in the match regardless.

Players who could have gotten Nadal at MC were Edmund (who after a very lacklustre first set started zoning with his monster FH and definitely got Nadal worried) and Novak, even in such bad form you gotta give him a punching chance if he sees Fedal across the net IMO.
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
Just lol. This is how they portray the wrong call on the ATP site.
They don't even state Mourier was in the wrong and by half a foot (every other news site has that as the main storyline). Nor do they state that Goffin never recovered his marbles.

I don't like to say it, but I do think this is a stain on the ATP and though nothing like a smoking gun, it's an indication that the higher powers could have wanted Mourier to meddle if need be and an opportunity presented itself.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/nadal-goffin-monte-carlo-2017-saturday-sf
buried deep down in the text:

Goffin appeared in control at 3-2, 40/0, but soon got rattled in a 22-point game that lasted 17 minutes and nine seconds.

On one game point for the Belgian, the chair umpire, Cedric Mourier, got down to overrule a Nadal forehand as having hit the line. Goffin was incensed, stating it was the wrong mark. The game eventually resumed, with Nadal levelling at 3-3 when Goffin hit a forehand into the net. From there on out, it was all Nadal, who broke a second time to 30 for a 5-3 advantage. From 2-3, the Spaniard won four straight games to wrap up the first set in 57 minutes.

The relentless pace and depth of Nadal’s groundstrokes pushed Goffin deep behind the baseline in the second set.....
 

Racqueteer

Rookie
Just lol. This is how they portray the wrong call on the ATP site.
They don't even state Mourier was in the wrong and by half a foot (every other news site has that as the main storyline). Nor do they state that Goffin never recovered his marbles.

I don't like to say it, but I do think this is a stain on the ATP and though nothing like a smoking gun, it's an indication that the higher powers could have wanted Mourier to meddle if need be and an opportunity presented itself.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/nadal-goffin-monte-carlo-2017-saturday-sf
buried deep down in the text:

Goffin appeared in control at 3-2, 40/0, but soon got rattled in a 22-point game that lasted 17 minutes and nine seconds.

On one game point for the Belgian, the chair umpire, Cedric Mourier, got down to overrule a Nadal forehand as having hit the line. Goffin was incensed, stating it was the wrong mark. The game eventually resumed, with Nadal levelling at 3-3 when Goffin hit a forehand into the net. From there on out, it was all Nadal, who broke a second time to 30 for a 5-3 advantage. From 2-3, the Spaniard won four straight games to wrap up the first set in 57 minutes.

The relentless pace and depth of Nadal’s groundstrokes pushed Goffin deep behind the baseline in the second set.....

Ha, thanks for pointing this out. I actually don't think it's an indication of any conspiracy by the powers-that-be, just the usual corporate spin. I've noticed in the past that both ATP and WTA play down any controversies in the articles they write. eg. the WTA article about Stuttgart just says that Maria is returning to the tour, no mention of why she's been absent for so long. But this is pretty blatant selective reporting!
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
Ha, thanks for pointing this out. I actually don't think it's an indication of any conspiracy by the powers-that-be, just the usual corporate spin. I've noticed in the past that both ATP and WTA play down any controversies in the articles they write. eg. the WTA article about Stuttgart just says that Maria is returning to the tour, no mention of why she's been absent for so long. But this is pretty blatant selective reporting!
yeah, corporate spin is hopefully just it. But quite a way to report it given the rest of the match was full of boos and jeers from the crowd.
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
Mourier's a repeat offender as well. There's a widely publicised Troicki incident of course. Then the one with Rafa himself in Madrid a few years back. And then some more footage of him clowning around in a Federer vs Ljubicic match at Indian Wells 9 years ago.
Linesman was probably rolling up a joint and staying as far away as possible

Probably the second worst overrule of all time. Number 1 is this IMO:


You are right, that is the worst overrule ...I hope that guy never worked as an ump again


Imo, the worst screw job was against Venus


I believe she was playing Capriati in a U.S. open match and the ump lost track of the score and gave Cap an extra point!


ETA: Upon further review, it seems this sort of error happend to BOTH WS and I confused the incidents

Venus got screwed in Wimbledon when the ump awarded a point Venus won to her opponenent


Serena a few months later had the same thing happen to her in a match at the USO against Capriati.
 
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Gazelle

G.O.A.T.
Just lol. This is how they portray the wrong call on the ATP site.
They don't even state Mourier was in the wrong and by half a foot (every other news site has that as the main storyline). Nor do they state that Goffin never recovered his marbles.

I don't like to say it, but I do think this is a stain on the ATP and though nothing like a smoking gun, it's an indication that the higher powers could have wanted Mourier to meddle if need be and an opportunity presented itself.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/nadal-goffin-monte-carlo-2017-saturday-sf
buried deep down in the text:

Goffin appeared in control at 3-2, 40/0, but soon got rattled in a 22-point game that lasted 17 minutes and nine seconds.

On one game point for the Belgian, the chair umpire, Cedric Mourier, got down to overrule a Nadal forehand as having hit the line. Goffin was incensed, stating it was the wrong mark. The game eventually resumed, with Nadal levelling at 3-3 when Goffin hit a forehand into the net. From there on out, it was all Nadal, who broke a second time to 30 for a 5-3 advantage. From 2-3, the Spaniard won four straight games to wrap up the first set in 57 minutes.

The relentless pace and depth of Nadal’s groundstrokes pushed Goffin deep behind the baseline in the second set.....

ATP is as corrupt as can be.
 

fundrazer

G.O.A.T.
awww... really ? :)

i can keep on hating the nadal without having to do the lemon stuff ?... :oops:
It's just been revoked.

vJ1Q4D.gif
 

TheMusicLover

G.O.A.T.
Anyone seen Goffin's post match comments? @TheMusicLover ?
I had a very busy weekend, so not much tennis for me, nor post-match comments or anything the like.
The only thing I read in the Dutch media over here was that Goffin was 'woest' (translate that with something like: 'fuming'), but barely a word about that idiotic mistake by ump and linesman.
:rolleyes:

Sad to see certain folks putting the blame (partly) on Nadal, here.
Once again, it's not a requirement for the players to correct stupid calls, in contrary, the players most often trust the ump to be right about his calls, especially when it's in fact an OVERRULE.
Umps must be very sure of their overcalls before they do so, so I fully understand Nadal thinking he may well be right.
It's the ump's JOB, not the players'.

Reminds me of a silly thread on GM a few weeks ago, blaming Dustin Brown for not forfeiting a point on a serve of his which wrongly got called in.

I'm not one for believing conspiracy theories, but this does indeed shed a dark light on the ATP, as I can well understand folks thinking that it looked like Mourier didn't want to allow a non-Big Name-player to possibly cause yet another upset after said player had already managed to take out Thiem and Djokovic.
Not that it would ever have happened, as Nadal is truly Something Else on clay, but still...
 

LETitBE

Hall of Fame
I had a very busy weekend, so not much tennis for me, nor post-match comments or anything the like.
The only thing I read in the Dutch media over here was that Goffin was 'woest' (translate that with something like: 'fuming'), but barely a word about that idiotic mistake by ump and linesman.
:rolleyes:

Sad to see certain folks putting the blame (partly) on Nadal, here.
Once again, it's not a requirement for the players to correct stupid calls, in contrary, the players most often trust the ump to be right about his calls, especially when it's in fact an OVERRULE.
Umps must be very sure of their overcalls before they do so, so I fully understand Nadal thinking he may well be right.
It's the ump's JOB, not the players'.

Reminds me of a silly thread on GM a few weeks ago, blaming Dustin Brown for not forfeiting a point on a serve of his which wrongly got called in.

I'm not one for believing conspiracy theories, but this does indeed shed a dark light on the ATP, as I can well understand folks thinking that it looked like Mourier didn't want to allow a non-Big Name-player to possibly cause yet another upset after said player had already managed to take out Thiem and Djokovic.
Not that it would ever have happened, as Nadal is truly Something Else on clay, but still...
nadal has never argued with an umpire in his life has he?
 

vernonbc

Legend
Oh lordy, there is no conspiracy. It was just bad umpiring and Mourier has been bad for a lot of years. There are utubes of Federer arguing with him, Troicki going nuts about his call, and here's Rafa having a go a few years ago about a terrible call by Mourier, and there have been dozens and dozens of others.

 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
I had a very busy weekend, so not much tennis for me, nor post-match comments or anything the like.
The only thing I read in the Dutch media over here was that Goffin was 'woest' (translate that with something like: 'fuming'), but barely a word about that idiotic mistake by ump and linesman.
:rolleyes:

Sad to see certain folks putting the blame (partly) on Nadal, here.
Once again, it's not a requirement for the players to correct stupid calls, in contrary, the players most often trust the ump to be right about his calls, especially when it's in fact an OVERRULE.
Umps must be very sure of their overcalls before they do so, so I fully understand Nadal thinking he may well be right.
It's the ump's JOB, not the players'.

Reminds me of a silly thread on GM a few weeks ago, blaming Dustin Brown for not forfeiting a point on a serve of his which wrongly got called in.

I'm not one for believing conspiracy theories, but this does indeed shed a dark light on the ATP, as I can well understand folks thinking that it looked like Mourier didn't want to allow a non-Big Name-player to possibly cause yet another upset after said player had already managed to take out Thiem and Djokovic.
Not that it would ever have happened, as Nadal is truly Something Else on clay, but still...
Agree that it's Mourier and the linesman's fault. Would have liked to see Rafa interfere nevertheless, but it's not his job. Or Goffin trying to make him interfere (or better yet: trying to make the linesman interfere). Goffin lost it after that, no wonder he was woest.

As for the latter, yeah - see my comment 673 about how they reported the match and the incident on the ATP-site. If it smells...
(as one poster pointed out, it could also just be their corporate way of downplaying any controversy though).
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
For those interested, here's Goffin's interview (@TheMusicLover ):
http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=129332
Not happy with Mourier at all. Other main point: When he was at 110 % intensity already, something like that just takes the wind out of his sails. Legs gave out after that. He needed twice the energy to come back and he couldn't.

On Rafa:
Q. You didn't show him (Mourier) the mark?
DAVID GOFFIN: Yes, I did. I'm sure Rafa knew it was out. I just don't know what happened to him.

Q. Did Rafa tell you anything?
DAVID GOFFIN: No. Rafa has nothing to do with this. He knows his forehand was heavy and long and deep. But he was on the other side of the court. He couldn't do anything about it.

Rafa is one of the most fair players on the tour. He was just playing his match. I have nothing against him.

(also for those saying Rafa didn't know, Goffin certainly seems to think he did, but that it's still not his fault)
 

TheMusicLover

G.O.A.T.
For those interested, here's Goffin's interview (@TheMusicLover ):
http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=129332
Not happy with Mourier at all. Other main point: When he was at 110 % intensity already, something like that just takes the wind out of his sails. Legs gave out after that. He needed twice the energy to come back and he couldn't.

On Rafa:
Q. You didn't show him (Mourier) the mark?
DAVID GOFFIN: Yes, I did. I'm sure Rafa knew it was out. I just don't know what happened to him.

Q. Did Rafa tell you anything?
DAVID GOFFIN: No. Rafa has nothing to do with this. He knows his forehand was heavy and long and deep. But he was on the other side of the court. He couldn't do anything about it.

Rafa is one of the most fair players on the tour. He was just playing his match. I have nothing against him.

(also for those saying Rafa didn't know, Goffin certainly seems to think he did, but that it's still not his fault)
Thanks. Goffin showing himself a true gentleman again. :)

He also clearly points at just having ran out of fuel as the main reason for his loss.
All too understandable after his very tight and consuming matches against Almagro, Thiem and Djok.

"I can try to complain, but this is not my usual attitude now that the match is behind me. I have to think about the future."
Go David!
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
Thanks. Goffin showing himself a true gentleman again. :)

He also clearly points at just having ran out of fuel as the main reason for his loss.
All too understandable after his very tight and consuming matches against Almagro, Thiem and Djok.

"I can try to complain, but this is not my usual attitude now that the match is behind me. I have to think about the future."
Go David!
He does, but it's a situation, where did situation sucked his energy out of him. Had it not happened, he might have had the necessary energy. We'll never know. Odds were still 2:1 on Rafa or something like that though, even down 2-4
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Thanks. Goffin showing himself a true gentleman again. :)

He also clearly points at just having ran out of fuel as the main reason for his loss.
All too understandable after his very tight and consuming matches against Almagro, Thiem and Djok.

"I can try to complain, but this is not my usual attitude now that the match is behind me. I have to think about the future."
Go David!

Goffin "ran out of fuel?" He's bloody 26 years old playing best of three matches and faced an almost 31 year old Nadal who has more mileage than a 1970 Buick. He's mentally weak and the fact that he could only win one more game after the whole thing is sad. I know you are a fan of Goffin but let's be honest about the situation.
 

TheMusicLover

G.O.A.T.
Goffin "ran out of fuel?" He's bloody 26 years old playing best of three matches and faced an almost 31 year old Nadal who has more mileage than a 1970 Buick. He's mentally weak and the fact that he could only win one more game after the whole thing is sad. I know you are a fan of Goffin but let's be honest about the situation.
Hey, I usually like your critical approach to the usual overhyping on this forum, but... imho, you're exaggerating the 'mental weakness' of a fellow like Goffin.

I just enjoy watching him. Even the more when boinking out Top Dogs of whatever kind from whatever tournament. Send Me More, please David.
He's done a fair job at that at MC, and I'm merely hoping for more-to-follow.

That bagel dealt out to Player X today, after having been down 1-4 during the first set (as judged from whatching the SB today)...

TASTY.
 
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