2017 Montreal R3 - [1] Rafael Nadal vs [WC] Denis Shapovalov

Who wins?


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“It probably is the worst lose of the year, without a doubt, for me,” Nadal said. “He played well. I played really bad. When this kind of thing happens, the only thing you can do is wish the opponent the best.

“It is probably my worst loss of the year because I lost against a player with a lower ranking. At the same time, because of the opportunity I had here to come back to No. 1. Always tough, but the draw was not that impossible after all the matches that were happening. So it was an important mistake from me.”

In a gruelling deciding set in the battle of the two lefties, Nadal failed to convert on six break points. He later relinquished a 3-0 lead in the deciding tie-break. It marked his fourth straight deciding-set tie-break defeat.

“He played well on the breakpoints. He hit some lines. One with 15-30, he hit the second serve ace wide. Then a good return for me, forehand winner down the line, not easy,” Nadal said. “[Despite] all these kind of things, I made too many mistakes on important points.”

Shapovalov became the youngest player to beat at Top 2 opponent (in a completed match) since a 17-year-old Nadal beat top-ranked Federer in the 2004 ATP Masters 1000 Miami third round. Nadal, for one, was not surprised his teenage opponent’s nerves did not crack.

“He has nothing to lose. It is win-win for him,” Nadal said. “If he lost playing a good match, it was good for him. If he lost in straight sets, already he played a good tournament. If he won, he's amazing. Just well done for him. It’s a great story.”
 
exactly, what's this again?...he looks to be in great shape, like he's been in the gym..that has to be paired with the on-court stuff in balance...not a double helping of both every day :(

but notice Moya was not there..I'd start the Toni goodbye early, Roig too..Moya needs to be there full-time, and by himself, in NYC

I don't know how much of an impact it's having on his play given that he's losing this matches not because he can't reach the ball, but because he's not doing enough with it when he gets there. Maybe he's just arriving a little too late?

In any case we'll see how the rest of his season plays out. If he keeps up that pace and doesn't adjust his game plan to something more resembling aggression I have a feeling we'll see another late season burnout.
 
exactly, what's this again?...he looks to be in great shape, like he's been in the gym..that has to be paired with the on-court stuff in balance...not a double helping of both every day :(

but notice Moya was not there..I'd start the Toni goodbye early, Roig too..Moya needs to be there full-time, and by himself, in NYC
So my hunch was right, no Moya. Well, I think he was on the right track with Moya, so it's a shame if Nadal can't commit to it. Surely losing to Fed was better than losing to youngsters/journeymen all over again?
 
He squandered so many BP chances in the 3rd set. All he need was just one break conversion and the match is over.
 
Didn't seem like he was giving Shapovalov many different looks at the return either. Just stayed way back the whole time. Even on second serves he never looked closer than one meter from the baseline. The kid was double faulting twice in a row at points, why not press towards and risk a missed return to at least look more threatening?
 
Didn't seem like he was giving Shapovalov many different looks at the return either. Just stayed way back the whole time. Even on second serves he never looked closer than one meter from the baseline. The kid was double faulting twice in a row at points, why not press towards and risk a missed return to at least look more threatening?
Nadal himself is a slave of rhythm and in the process ends up giving a lot of rhythm to his opponents. This is why Fed rarely loses by getting hit off the court - Cilic, Delpo, Berdych, Tsonga. Because he will try different things to upset the momentum of a big hitting player but for Nadal trying plan B is like a big chore which he hates. More so lately than before. Something has changed from the Rosol match onwards.
 
Man, Nadal really salty after the match. Interesting that in his later years that Nadal is now losing matches in which he wins more points overall. It was rare when he was young but becoming quite common now.

Looks like he really wanted # from his comments in the presses. It makes me a little surprised he didn't play Hamburg to ensure it. Maybe he thought Federer would skip Montreal.

In any case, Shapalov is so fun to watch. What really amazed me was his determination and belief in himself. Nadal destroyed him in that first set as Shapalov had zero chance on return. The Nadal FH to Shapalov FH didn't work out that well for Nadal and that's a problem when his favorite FH is the CC FH bit that was going into Shapalov's huge weapon.

A lefty one-handed BH doesn't matter because a CC BH or inside out FH from Nadal isn't going to make the ball jump like the CC FH does.

Look forward to Zverev/Shapalov battles for years to come now. I think Shapalov will lose to Mannarino but there's lots and lots of time to see that Zver/Shapa matchup.
 
So my hunch was right, no Moya. Well, I think he was on the right track with Moya, so it's a shame if Nadal can't commit to it. Surely losing to Fed was better than losing to youngsters/journeymen all over again?

no, Nadal's commited I believe, it's just that Moya has other things he has to deal with, business interests and family I think, so he can't be there full-time ..people keep saying it's all Toni and Rafa, but he now has 3 coaches..Toni, Roig, and Moya...he's made it work I guess but it feels like he needs Moya solo right now, but maybe won't get that until next year, although Roig might be #2 next year

I'm asking I guess, is Moya ready to commit fully if Rafa asks him to and wants him to?
 
no, Nadal's commited I believe, it's just that Moya has other things he has to deal with, business interests and family I think, so he can't be their full-time ..people keep saying it's all Toni and Rafa, but he now has 3 coaches..Toni, Roig, and Moya...he's made it work I guess but it feels like he needs Moya solo right now, but maybe won't get that until next year, although Roig might be #2 next year

I'm asking I guess, is Moya ready to commit fully if Rafa asks him to and wants him to?
Ah, wasn't aware of that. So in effect Toni's residual influence is confusing Nadal.
 
Nadal himself is a slave of rhythm and in the process ends up giving a lot of rhythm to his opponents. This is why Fed rarely loses by getting hit off the court - Cilic, Delpo, Berdych, Tsonga. Because he will try different things to upset the momentum of a big hitting player but for Nadal trying plan B is like a big chore which he hates. More so lately than before. Something has changed from the Rosol match onwards.

honestly, think he felt the kid would crack, why give in, in a sense and honor the kid by going to plan B you know?...in their first match..hey, he's made changes against Djokovic in particular that worked but that's because Djokovic earned that respect by beating him so many times...maybe next time Nadal won't be so stubborn vs. Shap now that the kid proved he's ready
 
  1. quotes from both...


  2. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 1h1 hour ago
    Shapovalov:"I was cramping a bit in the end. Nothing serious, I'm standing now just for precaution"

  3. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 1h1 hour ago
    Shapovalov:"This is what I dreamed of while growing up, playing these guys, it's a dream come true"

    Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 1h1 hour ago
  4. Shapovalov:"It was a very tough match, physically and mentally. I'm very tired now"

  5. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 1h1 hour ago
    Shapovalov does not sit down during presser

  6. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 2h2 hours ago
    Nadal:"If we want to find excuses, we can always find them. Need to accept what happened, that I played badly"

  7. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 2h2 hours ago
    Nadal:"This was the worst match of the year for me. Not happy now, tomorrow I don't want to practice, and then on to Cincy"

  8. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 2h2 hours ago
    Nadal:"The long game in third set was important but I still had break points later, a lot of chances"

  9. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 2h2 hours ago
    Nadal:"He had nothing to lose, so well done for him"

  10. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 2h2 hours ago
    Nadal:"In my opinion is much easier to keep your nerves when you are 18 than when you are 30"

  11. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 2h2 hours ago
    Nadal:"I cannot be satisfied with the way I played"

  12. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 2h2 hours ago
    Nadal:"I played very bad in [3rd set] tie break, many mistakes. Even playing like this I could have won"


  13. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 2h2 hours ago
  14. Nadal:"He is a good player, he can have a good career, great determination in important moments"

  15. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 2h2 hours ago
    Nadal:"The draw was favourable, this is a bad loss, I have to accept it and keep working"

The real reason he didn't sit down is because there were still horseshoes falling out. ;)
 
Ilya Ryvlin‏ @ryvlin 38m38 minutes ago
Wow, a lot of records! Denis Shapovalov is... (provided by ATP Staff)

DG7L-AcUwAAh20R.jpg
 
honestly, think he felt the kid would crack, why give in, in a sense and honor the kid by going to plan B you know?...in their first match..hey, he's made changes against Djokovic in particular that worked but that's because Djokovic earned that respect by beating him so many times...maybe next time Nadal won't be so stubborn vs. Shap now that the kid proved he's ready
Interesting comment because it's another factor in these losses - a lack of respect. However weak or inexperienced the opponent, he still needs to be beat. Fed will take the bull by the horns rather than waiting for an implosion. And these losses have added up to a lack of clutchness for Nadal. That DF in the tiebreak was just nerves.
 
Interesting comment because it's another factor in these losses - a lack of respect. However weak or inexperienced the opponent, he still needs to be beat. Fed will take the bull by the horns rather than waiting for an implosion. And these losses have added up to a lack of clutchness for Nadal. That DF in the tiebreak was just nerves.

doubles came back in bushels tonight, and that had gone away this year...a bad flashback
 
Interesting comment because it's another factor in these losses - a lack of respect. However weak or inexperienced the opponent, he still needs to be beat. Fed will take the bull by the horns rather than waiting for an implosion. And these losses have added up to a lack of clutchness for Nadal. That DF in the tiebreak was just nerves.

It's either a lack of respect for opponents or a lack of understanding that he's lost the intimidation factor he used to have over opponents. Back in his pomp, that sort of play conservative play was still rewarded because players were so afraid of him that it warped their perceptions. Nadal gives you enough to think about with his wicked spins without you needing to get in your own head about it.

I think everyone on tour at this point recognises that while not a non-factor outside of clay, Nadal is just another top ten player on hard and grass.
 
I did not expect this. Had seen no indications of this in the first set, what happened?

A golden opportunity to reach #1 gone for Nadal. If Fed wins Montreal, he could take #1 instead after TRS.

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk
 
I did not expect this. Had seen no indications of this in the first set, what happened?

A golden opportunity to reach #1 gone for Nadal. If Fed wins Montreal, he could take #1 instead after TRS.

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

Nadal played average, maybe a little below average, and had more than enough opportunities thanks to understandable errors from such a young player. He never really took the initiative and was clearly waiting for the match to be handed to him. In fairness, Nadal was extremely solid on serve in the final set and if he'd managed to break in the third game of the third set, which lasted in excess of 12 minutes, he almost definitely would have held to serve it out.

I haven't seen it, but apparently Nadal was despondent in his press conference. There's a chance that given his reaction afterwards the chance of teaching number 1 just got to him mentally, a bit like how Federer tends to falter when his main rivals go out early.
 
Murray literally handing over Number 1 on a platter but Rafa didn't want to take it. Huge win for the young Canadian. Defaulted for hitting an Umpire in the eye earlier in the year, now bears Nadal in a deciding set in front of a delighted home crowd.
 
Nadal should stick to clay. His foot speed is not what it use to be. He seems a lot slower these days. Lots of people pushing him around with hard flat shots, and his spin balls are setting up perfect for the opponent to take them on the rise and end the point. Being a retriever, he will have more wear and tear over the years, and he is showing it. Congrats to Shapovalov, good win
 
  1. quotes from both...


  2. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 1h1 hour ago
    Shapovalov:"I was cramping a bit in the end. Nothing serious, I'm standing now just for precaution"

  3. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 1h1 hour ago
    Shapovalov:"This is what I dreamed of while growing up, playing these guys, it's a dream come true"

    Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 1h1 hour ago
  4. Shapovalov:"It was a very tough match, physically and mentally. I'm very tired now"

  5. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 1h1 hour ago
    Shapovalov does not sit down during presser

  6. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 2h2 hours ago
    Nadal:"If we want to find excuses, we can always find them. Need to accept what happened, that I played badly"

  7. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 2h2 hours ago
    Nadal:"This was the worst match of the year for me. Not happy now, tomorrow I don't want to practice, and then on to Cincy"

  8. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 2h2 hours ago
    Nadal:"The long game in third set was important but I still had break points later, a lot of chances"

  9. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 2h2 hours ago
    Nadal:"He had nothing to lose, so well done for him"

  10. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 2h2 hours ago
    Nadal:"In my opinion is much easier to keep your nerves when you are 18 than when you are 30"

  11. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 2h2 hours ago
    Nadal:"I cannot be satisfied with the way I played"

  12. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 2h2 hours ago
    Nadal:"I played very bad in [3rd set] tie break, many mistakes. Even playing like this I could have won"


  13. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 2h2 hours ago
  14. Nadal:"He is a good player, he can have a good career, great determination in important moments"

  15. Ubitennis‏ @Ubitennis 2h2 hours ago
    Nadal:"The draw was favourable, this is a bad loss, I have to accept it and keep working"
sounds like the rusty peak injured bitter bull... :(
 
What really impressed me was Shapolavov atitude.
Always calm and focused throughout the match. And that is incredible for an 18 year old boy. (Just compare this to the way Thiem behaved on court against Shwartzman, Thiem lost that match because of his attitude).
On first set he lost that serve game to love, and I though he went out of focus, but regrouped nicely, demonstrating mental strength.
Tecnically what made him win was the amazing add court serve and forehand down the line. He erased several BPs with that shot, and also the mix up. He did go to the net, and even if some times not very efficiently, that was important to keep Rafa thinking always aware of that.
As for Rafa, he didn't play his best match, but this happened because of the quality of his opponent.
To point out a shot that suffered on Rafa's side, it was his serve. He suffered the fact he was playng a lefty, and not always able to adjust it, to secure it towards Denis's backhand. As most player, he is used to play right handed opponents, so he kind of had to 'invert' serve directions, and I think his serve went down of quality here. And when your serve goes down of quality all the rest of the game suffers....
 
Nadal confirms that it was that stupid strap sticking out like a unicorn on the blond bimbos backward hat that bothered him all through the match. "I kept thinking..why does he not fix it, is he that stupid, does he not even realize it?"

"This caused me to miss all of those first serves. I would look over before serving to pick my spot and there it was...poking out like a freaking banana."

"All my groundstrokes landed well inside of the service line. I can get no depth on my new APD! I'm calling the Wilson
Rep tomorrow. I need a players frame like Fed. Hey, wonder if I can get a RN Pro Staff."

"All throughout the match I was wondering what the guys on TT were posting. I checked in between games. Darn, those cruel mf's!!!"
 
A back up win tomorrow for Shapovalov would be almost as impressive as the one tonight. Given what we know about backing up an upset win in the sport of tennis.

For a little over a year now, beating Nadal has not been good for a player's chances. Since RG 2016:
RG: Lost (w/o) to Grannolers, who lost his next match to Thiem
Rio: Lost in the SF to Del Potro, who lost his next match to Murray
Rio: Lost to Nishikori, who had no further matches
Cinci: Lost to Coric, who lost his next match to Cilic
USO: Lost to Pouille, who lost his next match to Monfils
Beijing: lost to Dmitrov, who won his next match over Raonic
Shanghai: Lost to Troicki, who lost his next match to Agut
On to 2017
Brisbane: Lost to Raonic,who lost his next match to Dmitrov
Australian: lost to Federer, who had no further matches
Acapulco: Lost to Querrey, who had no further matches
Indian Wells: Lost to Federer, who beat Kyrgios in his next match
Miami: Lost to Federer, who had no further matches
Rome: Lost to Thiem, who lost his next match to Djokovic
Wimbledon: Lost to Mueller, who lost his next match to Cilic

That's 2-8 in follow-up matches

Just at majors, it's been a bizarre longer-term phenomenon
From 2011->present, Nadal has 17 losses at the majors
5 of those were finals, so there was no next match. Of the other 12, the guy who beat Nadal went 1-11 in their follow-up match. The 1 was Djokovic, 2015 French, who beat Nadal in the QF, Murray in the SF and lost to Wawrinka in the F.

By comparison, from 2003-2011, Nadal had 17 losses at the majors
2 were in finals, so there was no next match. Of the other 15, the guy who beat Nadal went 9-6 in their follow-up match. Odd trivia/statistical note: that makes Juan Martin Del Potro the only player to ever beat Nadal before the Fs and go on to win a major. He beat Nadal in the SF and Federer in the F.

I don't even know that you can make much of that. It's obviously some statistical noise. But it's weird and interesting.
 
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