2017 Shanghai - General Discussion Thread

[Charleneriva]

2017 SHANGHAI ROLEX MASTERS

Date October 8 – 15
Edition 9th
Category ATP World Tour Masters 1000
Surface Hard / Outdoor
Draw 56S/28Q/24D
Prize money US$3,849,445
Location Shanghai, China
Venue Qizhong Forest Sports City Arena
2016 Champion:

​

DRAW

Qualifying draw

A nice aerial view of the greeny venue and the magnolia roof:

 

[Fedeonic]

That's pretty much the negative resume of 2017.

 

[Mainad]

The withdrawals column must be one of the saddest ever seen!

 

[Charleneriva]

The withdrawals column must be one of the saddest ever seen!

Agreed. In fact I was a bit emotional when searching for a good Murray photo for the thread. Ended up looking at a lot of his other photos and photos of the event last year as well.

 

[Mainad]

Agreed. In fact I was a bit emotional when searching for a good Murray photo for the thread. Ended up looking at a lot of his other photos and photos of the event last year as well.

Just so hard to believe how different things now look compared to this same time last year!

 

[Charleneriva]

Just so hard to believe how different things now look compared to this same time last year!

And next year things might very well look very different from this year. Every player (and us fans) has their time. Can't have them all. Just try to stay positive and optimistic. There will always be something great in the game for all of us, regardless of the "time, methinks.

 

[Mainad]

And next year things might very well look very different from this year. Every player (and us fans) has their time. Can't have them all.

I recognise that. I just want a bit more before we get to that stage. That's all.

Just try to stay positive and optimistic. There will always be something great in the game for all of us, regardless of the "time, methinks.

I will try but I have to confess I am not a natural optimist by nature.

 

[Charleneriva]

I recognise that. I just want a bit more before we get to that stage. That's all.

I will try but I have to confess I am not a natural optimist by nature.

I'm an optimist by nature, but it wasn't too easy for me the last couple of years or in 2012 or before that. But I was really, really happy last December, knowing that Fed and Rafa were gonna be back soon, among other things. I also had that strange, or maybe no so strange, feeling that they would do some good damage this year. So yeah, I'm a super happy fan this year but I'm also perfectly aware that anything can happen and never allow myself to feel any "smug".

I think you will be much happier come December/Jan as well. Stay positive . I miss Murray too.

 

[Charleneriva]

The injuries and withdrawals are still stacking up...

Rublev, Medvedev, Vesely, Dzumhur and Young are now in the main draw.

*****

Injured Tsonga, Raonic, Berdych to skip Shanghai Masters

Once again a withdrawal for Jo-Wilfried Tsonga. The French player has not been competing since reaching the quarter-finals in St. Petersburg two weeks ago, where he hurt his left knee injury. Tsonga is slowly recovering, but after skipping Beijing he won't be in the Masters 1000 Shanghai next week neither.

Tsonga, who reached the final in the Chinese event in 2015 losing to Novak Djokovic, is still committed to play Vienna and Paris Bercy. Milos Raonic, who retired from his second round match in Tokyo against Yuichi Sugita on Thursday, won't play in Shanghai due to a strain calf.

He was back to compete after a seven-week break, and now after a wrist injury, another obstacle in on his way again. A Special Exempt spot is now free, and so Andrey Rublev, Daniil Medvedev and Jiri Vesely now entered in the main draw.

Philipp Kohlschreiber, David Ferrer, Gael Monfils, Tomas Berdych have withdrawn too. At the moment Damir Dzumhur was the last alternate to enter main draw, Donald Young is next.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Nadal has ridiculously overplayed and won't win this one. I'm surprised he's even in the semis in Beijing.

 

[SeeingDusk]

I'm so not used to all these new guys on the block. I want the veterans back - the guys I grew up watching.

 

[Zetty]

Let's go Dimi

 

[Mainad]

The injuries and withdrawals are still stacking up...

Rublev, Medvedev, Vesely, Dzumhur and Young are now in the main draw.

*****

Injured Tsonga, Raonic, Berdych to skip Shanghai Masters

Once again a withdrawal for Jo-Wilfried Tsonga. The French player has not been competing since reaching the quarter-finals in St. Petersburg two weeks ago, where he hurt his left knee injury. Tsonga is slowly recovering, but after skipping Beijing he won't be in the Masters 1000 Shanghai next week neither.

Tsonga, who reached the final in the Chinese event in 2015 losing to Novak Djokovic, is still committed to play Vienna and Paris Bercy. Milos Raonic, who retired from his second round match in Tokyo against Yuichi Sugita on Thursday, won't play in Shanghai due to a strain calf.

He was back to compete after a seven-week break, and now after a wrist injury, another obstacle in on his way again. A Special Exempt spot is now free, and so Andrey Rublev, Daniil Medvedev and Jiri Vesely now entered in the main draw.

Philipp Kohlschreiber, David Ferrer, Gael Monfils, Tomas Berdych have withdrawn too. At the moment Damir Dzumhur was the last alternate to enter main draw, Donald Young is next.

This must be the most injury-prone season I've ever come across. Has any other season been hit by so many injured top players as this one?

 

[Charleneriva]

This must be the most injury-prone season I've ever come across. Has any other season been hit by so many injured top players as this one?

I think this year is the first and hopefully willl be the last. The ATP definitely needs to do something about it.

 

[BeatlesFan]

I think this year is the first and hopefully willl be the last. The ATP definitely needs to do something about it.

The ATP is all about making money so a shortened season won't happen. Players have been ******** about the long season ever since the early 80's. That was ridiculously disingenuous since they all played endless exos between tournaments. Now with enormous appearance fees, exos have been radically reduced in number.

 

[Bukmeikara]

Dzumhur deserved the spot in the draw

 

[veroniquem]

Nadal has ridiculously overplayed and won't win this one. I'm surprised he's even in the semis in Beijing.

Well, he's done the clay sweep (3 masters + slam), the grass sweep (Queens + W) and the summer hard sweep (2 masters + slam) in his career.
Asian swing sweep, here we come!
The sky is the limit when it comes to Nadal
(He has plenty of momentum going, if the draw is not too drastic, I can't see why not although of course I'd rather he focused maximum energy on WTF. If he's ever going to win it, this would seem to be the year to do it)

 

[Meles]

Just so hard to believe how different things now look compared to this same time last year!

State of the game this week:
1. Nadal - easily playing the best tennis of his career at this stage of the season
2. Dimitrov - back to his peak form displayed in Australia swing
3. Zverev - near his best and excellent closer at latter stages of tournaments
4. Kyrgios - good enough to challenge Fed at Laver Cup and impressed with his play in rallies versus Mischa Zverev
5. Goffin - Goffin's demolition of Gasquet from down triple set point is the best tennis he's played in his career (won 14 of 15 points to take set, plus 6-2 in 2nd)
6. Cilic - really looking good and appears completely back on track from Wimbledon injury, possibly peak Cilic
7. RBA - impressive against Dimitrov and gunning for WTF

This is just much, much better than last year at this time. Honestly, if Fed is fully healthy and back on track at Shanghai probably the best end of season in modern times incoming. Other players who looked great this week; Pouille, Schwartzman, Dzumhur, Rublev, and Gasquet. With Shaps coming in this week this may be amazing. Tiafoe has an excellent qualify draw.

With Goffin surging up the rankings that is 7 quality players for WTF in top form save Fed so far and well of course Thiem. If Kyrgios were to win the China Open this weekend he'd be a scant 400 points behind Busta who probably won't get far in Shanghai. Kyrgios at WTF would make for an unbelievable group of players with Cilic probably the weakest closer.

 

[Mainad]

State of the game this week:
1. Nadal - easily playing the best tennis of his career at this stage of the season
2. Dimitrov - back to his peak form displayed in Australia swing
3. Zverev - near his best and excellent closer at latter stages of tournaments
4. Kyrgios - good enough to challenge Fed at Laver Cup and impressed with his play in rallies versus Mischa Zverev
5. Goffin - Goffin's demolition of Gasquet from down triple set point is the best tennis he's played in his career (won 14 of 15 points to take set, plus 6-2 in 2nd)
6. Cilic - really looking good and appears completely back on track from Wimbledon injury, possibly peak Cilic
7. RBA - impressive against Dimitrov and gunning for WTF

This is just much, much better than last year at this time. Honestly, if Fed is fully healthy and back on track at Shanghai probably the best end of season in modern times incoming. Other players who looked great this week; Pouille, Schwartzman, Dzumhur, Rublev, and Gasquet. With Shaps coming in this week this may be amazing. Tiafoe has an excellent qualify draw.

With Goffin surging up the rankings that is 7 quality players for WTF in top form save Fed so far and well of course Thiem. If Kyrgios were to win the China Open this weekend he'd be a scant 400 points behind Busta who probably won't get far in Shanghai. Kyrgios at WTF would make for an unbelievable group of players with Cilic probably the weakest closer.

Meh, I don't agree. With the exception of Fed and Rafa who were absent from the tour, everyone was playing this time last year and most were playing some good stuff too . We didn't have half the tour missing like this year.

 

[Charleneriva]

State of the game this week:
1. Nadal - easily playing the best tennis of his career at this stage of the season
2. Dimitrov - back to his peak form displayed in Australia swing
3. Zverev - near his best and excellent closer at latter stages of tournaments
4. Kyrgios - good enough to challenge Fed at Laver Cup and impressed with his play in rallies versus Mischa Zverev
5. Goffin - Goffin's demolition of Gasquet from down triple set point is the best tennis he's played in his career (won 14 of 15 points to take set, plus 6-2 in 2nd)
6. Cilic - really looking good and appears completely back on track from Wimbledon injury, possibly peak Cilic
7. RBA - impressive against Dimitrov and gunning for WTF

This is just much, much better than last year at this time. Honestly, if Fed is fully healthy and back on track at Shanghai probably the best end of season in modern times incoming. Other players who looked great this week; Pouille, Schwartzman, Dzumhur, Rublev, and Gasquet. With Shaps coming in this week this may be amazing. Tiafoe has an excellent qualify draw.

With Goffin surging up the rankings that is 7 quality players for WTF in top form save Fed so far and well of course Thiem. If Kyrgios were to win the China Open this weekend he'd be a scant 400 points behind Busta who probably won't get far in Shanghai. Kyrgios at WTF would make for an unbelievable group of players with Cilic probably the weakest closer.

Thiem's looking too shaky right now I just can't put him on the poll (yet) while there are many good hardcourters playing well out there. Still one option left, probably will be "Others" as usual.

I definitely want Goffin and Kyrgios to do well and qualify for London. Would make WTF more interesting as well.

 

[Meles]

Thiem's looking too shaky right now I just can't put him on the poll (yet) while there are many good hardcourters playing well out there. Still one option left, probably will be "Others" as usual.

I definitely want Goffin and Kyrgios to do well and qualify for London. Would make WTF more interesting as well.

100% agree on Thiem, but you should try to add other for 10th spot. Forgot about Delpo who frankly looked great at this event too.

 

[gogo]

I'm so not used to all these new guys on the block. I want the veterans back - the guys I grew up watching.

The fans from the Connors/McEnroe days likely said the same thing.
You can still cheer for the old guys...but find some new ones to get excited about!

 

[Charleneriva]

Meh, I don't agree. With the exception of Fed and Rafa who were absent from the tour, everyone was playing this time last year and most were playing some good stuff too . We didn't have half the tour missing like this year.

I half agree with you and half agree with Meles. Fedal and the rising of the youngsters are interesting and more or less make up for the absence of Novak, Murray, Stan and Nishi etc. We can only do with what we've got at a time.

 

[Charleneriva]

100% agree on Thiem, but you should try to add other for 10th spot. Forgot about Delpo who frankly looked great at this event too.

Yep, that's why I still leave one option open. Who do you think I should add to the poll?

 

[Meles]

Meh, I don't agree. With the exception of Fed and Rafa who were absent from the tour, everyone was playing this time last year and most were playing some good stuff too . We didn't have half the tour missing like this year.

Wawrinka not usually that good and Djokovic is a loss of course this year, but he's not been much since winning 2016 RG. Here's my take on seeds coming into Shanghai last year:
1. Djokovic - damaged goods
2. Murray - pretty damn awesome
3. Fed - injured and out
4. Nadal - got smoked by Dimitrov at China Open and definitely very, very suspect
5. Raonic - just ugh
6. Monfils - not bad, but Gael just such a shaky big match player
7. Berdych - just absolutely horrible and in off appendectomy issue
8. Cilic - no where near his form this year
9. Tsonga - not in great form
10. Goffin - in great form, but better right now and much hungrier and fresher in 2017
11. Kyrgios - about the same, though Japan Open Kyrgios was very impressive
12. Zverev - had been on a run, but nowhere near the player he is this year
13. Pouille - on a run then

When we got to 2017 WTF:
1. Nadal - perhaps his best WTF ever incoming (no show last year)
2. Federer - if his back comes fully out of it he'll be top dog and was a no show last year
3. Zverev - welcome addition instead of the flaky Wawa
4. Thiem - he'll be better than last year.
5. Dimitrov - huge addition to WTF
6. Cilic - leagues better than last year
7. Goffin - welcome change from the unreliable Kei who basically did not play in the Fall and just showed at WTF to cash in.
8. Kyrgios - this would make this the best WTF ever. Clownios a huge upgrade over Clownfils.

1. Djokorayinka - pretty much out this year, but Murray is the only real loss compared to 2016. Frankly if Fed finds his health, I'd rate Fedal easily over Djokoray for the top two positions.

2016 actually was a fine WTF when it was all said and done, but this group could out do Laver Cup by a wide margin with the addition of peak Dimitrov and Goffin.

 

[Meles]

I half agree with you and half agree with Meles. Fedal and the rising of the youngsters are interesting and more or less make up for the absence of Novak, Murray, Stan and Nishi etc. We can only do with what we've got at a time.

Nishikori did not play in the Fall and just showed up at WTF to cash in. He was no asset. Nole was no asset, but did play himself into some decent form. It really isn't even close if you see my post above.

 

[Meles]

Yep, that's why I still leave one option open. Who do you think I should add to the poll?

Write-in (really same as other). I think Kyrgios needs to win China Open so we may all lambast you for his omission.

 

[Meles]

Dzumhur deserved the spot in the draw

Dzum and Rublev on fire coming into this event; both great additions and welcome changes from most of the dreck that just dropped; Philipp Kohlschreiber, David Ferrer, Gael Monfils, and especially Tomas Berdych(

)

 

[Meles]

Wow just 4 hours and 20 minutes til the draw is done.

Probably out 1 hour before play starts in Tokyo.

 

[Charleneriva]

Write-in (really same as other). I think Kyrgios needs to win China Open so we may all lambast you for his omission.

But he's already in the poll right from the start?
Bold: Sorry, what do you mean?

 

[Meles]

Cheating as this from Tokyo, but both are in Shanghai already, not sure if Bresnik will be tuning up Shaps forehand anymore.

 

[Meles]

But he's already in the poll right from the start?
Bold: Sorry, what do you mean?

LOL. China Open is Beijing and you didn't put Kyrgios in did you?

 

[Meles]

Introducing Federer (Laver Cup), but we miss Fed and need some hype

 

[Meles]

@marc45 do you have links for Shanghai Draw Ceremony?

 

[Charleneriva]

LOL. China Open is Beijing and you didn't put Kyrgios in did you?

Ah I see . Abt that, I have explained several times already. Yep I'm willing to take whatever thrown at me if Nick wins. Will be a bit sad for Rafa but still happy for him.

 

[marc45]

@marc45 do you have links for Shanghai Draw Ceremony?

oh, sorry man, no...the qualifying is still up

between baseball playoffs and trying to catch Beijing I haven't even thought about Shanghai yet...don't usually see live draw ceremonies outside of majors

see Fed arrived in town

 

[Mainad]

I half agree with you and half agree with Meles. Fedal and the rising of the youngsters are interesting and more or less make up for the absence of Novak, Murray, Stan and Nishi etc. We can only do with what we've got at a time.

But so far, with the exception of Zverev in the Masters Series, what have the youngsters actually done and do you really think they could have done even what they did if those missing players you listed had been active?

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

Only one Fedal video, I promise

How to do a spoiler thing? tried to do it w the video.

 

[jaggy]

I have a sneaky feeling for the Z man in this one

 

[Meles]

But so far, with the exception of Zverev in the Masters Series, what have the youngsters actually done and do you really think they could have done even what they did if those missing players you listed had been active?

Everyone was at Rome, so it happened once. Zverev took out Fed and Djoko in his finals, so yes. Kyrgios and Shaps beat Nadal this Summer. Wawrinka would not have been an issue for Zverev or Kyrgios in their runs. Murray would have been rough for these two, but no guarantees if in draw he would have made it to meet them. All of this and much more was said about Murray's great end to 2016.

 

[gogo]

Cheating as this from Tokyo, but both are in Shanghai already, not sure if Bresnik will be tuning up Shaps forehand anymore.

Holy crap! I loved watching Thiem work his forehand, and then when Shapo was shown, it was a whole 'nother level! So smooth. Absolute butter.
@Meles, I know that you gave a lot of credit to Bresnik for working with Shapo, but he only worked with him a brief time as Denis got injured in the early going. I give greater credit to Marty Larendeau. He has "sculpted" Denis' wild play in my opinion. One of the things that I love about Denis, in addition to his natural talent and aggressive style, is that he seems to be a sponge, and is totally coachable.

Thanks for posting the link.

 

[Meles]

Holy crap! I loved watching Thiem work his forehand, and then when Shapo was shown, it was a whole 'nother level! So smooth. Absolute butter.
@Meles, I know that you gave a lot of credit to Bresnik for working with Shapo, but he only worked with him a brief time as Denis got injured in the early going. I give greater credit to Marty Larendeau. He has "sculpted" Denis' wild play in my opinion. One of the things that I love about Denis, in addition to his natural talent and aggressive style, is that he seems to be a sponge, and is totally coachable.

Thanks for posting the link.

4 hours per day on his forehand for the whole time. Bresnik gets the lionshare.

 

[Meles]

The draw is out!
http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/scores/current/shanghai/5014/draws

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Potential QF's:

Nadal v Dimitrov
Cilic v Carreno Busta
Thiem v Zverev
Goffin v Federer

 

[Meles]

Nadal's draw is a bit rough:
Donaldson possible round 2
Pouille round of 16
Dimitrov QF
Cilic or Kyrgios (meet R16) SF

Fraud's draw is ideal:
Schwartzman in top form likely round 2
Sock round of 16
Goffin QF
Thiem/Zverev/Delpo (Delpo v. Zverev finally R16) SF

Delpo after Qualifier (Tiafoe?) has:
Rublev or Dzumher round 2
Zverev round of 16

Thiem probably gets Shaps round 2
Khach or Isner round of 16
Zverev or Delpo QF

Dimi squares up with Querrey round of 16

Anderson and PCB meet round of 16 and winner likely gets either Kyrgios or Cilic

All in all a nicely balanced draw and Fed was going to match up well with any of the possible round of 16 opponents. Fed has never really played peak Goffin, but there was this bit of insolence:
44/2015 QF Basel I Hard Roger Federer David Goffin 6-3 3-6 6-1 1.10 - 6.50

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Tough early draw for Fed

2R: Schwartzman
3R: #14 Sock, Lopez or Karlovic
QF: #9 RBA or #8 Goffin
SF: #3 Zverev or #5 Thiem or # 16 DelPo
Final: #1 Nadal or

 

[Meles]

Tough early draw for Fed

2R: Schwartzman
3R: #14 Sock, Lopez or Karlovic
QF: #9 RBA or #8 Goffin
SF: #3 Zverev or #5 Thiem or # 16 DelPo
Final: #1 Nadal or

Schwartzman is on fire and does have heavy topspin, you really think he'll be trouble? Gotta say Diego did cause some trouble for baby Fed

 

[Fedberg20]

Tough early draw for Fed

2R: Schwartzman
3R: #14 Sock, Lopez or Karlovic
QF: #9 RBA or #8 Goffin
SF: #3 Zverev or #5 Thiem or # 16 DelPo
Final: #1 Nadal or

I don't think so. A lot of it does depend on how rusty is the old men, but I can't see anyone without a serve bothering Roger. Sure, Diego might break him a couple of times, but he is going to have a very hard time holding as well. R3 are pretty much pidgeons, and R4 are people he never lost to, so I'd say a SF is a pretty safe bet right now.

 

[Meles]

I don't think so. A lot of it does depend on how rusty is the old men, but I can't see anyone without a serve bothering Roger. Sure, Diego might break him a couple of times, but he is going to have a very hard time holding as well. R3 are pretty much pidgeons, and R4 are people he never lost to, so I'd say a SF is a pretty safe bet right now.

Diegobot just won 100% of first serve points against Goofin in their first set.

 

[Fedberg20]

Diegobot just won 100% of first serve points against Goofin in their first set.

I actually admire Diego, a little guy really does his best with what he was given. But on Shanghai, which is or should be the fastest court around, no serve means no joy. In fact he might actually not make it to round 2 as the qualifiers aren't to be taken lightely. I see 5-6 guys that could take The Schwartz to funky town