2018 ATP Finals Final: (1.) Novak Djokovic vs. (3.) Alexander Zverev

Who will win this match?


  • Total voters
    70
  • Poll closed .

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Extraordinary!!! After the week Djokovic has just had, cruising through all his matches in straights without even dropping his serve once, he gets broken FOUR times in the final and goes out in straights!!! Who saw THIS coming??? :oops:

Much kudos to Zverev for coming out to play after all the bad vibes surrounding his win over Federer yesterday. That talking-to from Lendl must have had one hell of an effect!!!
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
You said something like "we" leave it to the other fanbases. Anyway doesn't matter that much, just don't the generalization is the best approach.

I just don't see Djokovic fans saying he loses because he is old. It's pretty much the truth even when he sucked for 2 years and I never in fact even named the fanbases so why do you care so much and are triggered?
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
LOOOOOL I almost did the same!! Only caught most of the 2nd set. The tennis I saw was mediocre for the most part.
Yeah - not sure what happened. I've seen the WTF finals so many times, so I should know by now. Anyhow... saved an hour and a half ;-)
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Let's just wait before reaching any conclusion. Zverev hasn't shown anything that makes me think he's better than 2011/2015 Djokovic or even 2012-2014 Djokovic. It's not even sure that he's better than 2018 Djokovic.
He's not, but he'll take advantage of Djokovic getting older.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I just don't see Djokovic fans saying he loses because he is old. It's pretty much the truth even when he sucked for 2 years and I never in fact even named the fanbases so why do you care so much and are triggered?
Not because he is old, but it plays a part.
 
For those who noticed, he wasn't sliding this match and that didn't help.

Second, it's very likely he was concerned about further injury having only recently recovered and so he wasn't playing his best.

Zverev played great but I think a lot of it was djokovics concern to physical injury.

I believe he hurt his arm or near, hence the net forehands.
 

Zardoz7/12

Hall of Fame
CnA_fDkWgAAWBfe.jpg
 

JasonZ

Hall of Fame
For those who noticed, he wasn't sliding this match and that didn't help.

Second, it's very likely he was concerned about further injury having only recently recovered and so he wasn't playing his best.

Zverev played great but I think a lot of it was djokovics concern to physical injury.

I believe he hurt his arm or near, hence the net forehands.

He started well, but zverevs serve intimidated him. He lost confidence and became Pusherovic from the start of the second set. Afraid to go for risks and no self belief after losing the first.
 

acintya

Legend
It seems like the MAFIA was involved in this outcome. :D
Sorry but Zverev was just lucky not to play the Ultron.

However, it is quite refreshing that somebody else than Novak takes the cake.
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
The first set had quality tennis.
Only in the 2nd set, did it go down considerably.
Just watching some of the second right now - gotta say Djoko looks flat, but props to Z for making him play and look like that. Just a pity that never happens, when he plays Fed in a big final ;-)

The kid just took out the 2 most successfull WTF players from the past 20 years in straights - respect!
 

duaneeo

Legend
What do you say now? :)

Listen, I get that predictions are fun etc. but I never predict any results because I can never consciously rule out even a remote possibility (which always exists) of the other player winning, so I stay away from it.

Actually, many predictions aren't fun, but outright vicious. They typically bash players, and the predictions made of this match bashed Zverev. They not only said he had no chance in hell of winning, but that he'd be blown off the court. Sasha's straight-set win is so satisfying not only because he's won another big title, but because he proved so many wrong.
 

Zara

G.O.A.T.
Here are the stats.

Djokovic-v-Zverev-wtf-2018-final-statistics.jpg

I actually don't understand this matchup. Sasha first beat Nole in straight sets in Rome, no competition and then Nole beat him twice (Shanghai and here in RR) in two straight sets and now, Zed beat Nole again in two simple straight sets.

It's almost like each one is beaten mentally before each game.
 
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Mr.Lob

G.O.A.T.
On replay. 1-1 second set. Djock serving 15-15. Long rally. Djock loses point. Noticeable winded. Because of fatigue tries a drop shot at the beginning of point. It's short. Can't recover physically. Match over. This match was lost because Djocks strength and conditioning still not up to par. Z played well, but didn't face the real Djokovic.
 

Zara

G.O.A.T.
Actually, many predictions aren't fun, but outright vicious. They typically bash players, and the predictions made of this match bashed Zverev. They not only said he had no chance in hell of winning, but that he'd be blown off the court. Sasha's straight-set win is so satisfying not only because he's won another big title, but because he proved so many wrong.

I definitely think cockiness goes even against the greatest player. It's just so arrogant. So the fans definitely call for it at times and draw it upon themselves. And you may be right 9 out of 10 times, but chances are and as they say, even a dog has its day. Why rule out of a possibility?
 

Zara

G.O.A.T.
Extraordinary!!! After the week Djokovic has just had, cruising through all his matches in straights without even dropping his serve once, he gets broken FOUR times in the final and goes out in straights!!! Who saw THIS coming??? :oops:

Much kudos to Zverev for coming out to play after all the bad vibes surrounding his win over Federer yesterday. That talking-to from Lendl must have had one hell of an effect!!!

It can't be just a coincidence that all the players (Sampras, Murray and now, Zverev) that I love so dearly are all coached by Lendl directly or indirectly. Lendl and I are so connected!
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
For those who noticed, he wasn't sliding this match and that didn't help.

Second, it's very likely he was concerned about further injury having only recently recovered and so he wasn't playing his best.

Zverev played great but I think a lot of it was djokovics concern to physical injury.

I believe he hurt his arm or near, hence the net forehands.

I might be prepared to give more credence to this if I had seen any signs of him struggling at all through any of his matches this week but there were none whatsoever. He never lost serve once all week until the final. I don't think we can use the injury excuse. He just got outplayed with some great serving and returning from Zverev curiously similar to what happened against Khachanov in the Paris final 2 weeks ago!
 
On replay. 1-1 second set. Djock serving 15-15. Long rally. Djock loses point. Noticeable winded. Because of fatigue tries a drop shot at the beginning of point. It's short. Can't recover physically. Match over. This match was lost because Djocks strength and conditioning still not up to par. Z played well, but didn't face the real Djokovic.
Maybe this is the new real Djokovic
 

uscwang

Hall of Fame
Not sure what happened to Novak. He was physically and emotionally flat. One would probably expect more excitement from him trying to tie a world record. I was concerned twice during this tournament for him. Once when i saw his mother and his wife sitting stonefaced next to each other in his box in the Isner match. Twice when i saw him roaring after double breaking Anderson to lead 6-2, 4-1. I thought then WTF, you don't waste your emotion like this.
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Nole’s second serve collapsed relative to his first 4 matches. He won 75% against Anderson, 91% against Cilic , 70% against Zverev in RR, and 85% against Isner. Only 35% today.

In the first set it was good, 6/10 = 60%. In the second, the collapse was real, just 2/13 = 15% - been a long time since that happened.
 
I might be prepared to give more credence to this if I had seen any signs of him struggling at all through any of his matches this week but there were none whatsover. He never lost serve once all week until the final. I don't think we can use the injury excuse. He just got outplayed with some great serving and returning from Zverev curiously similar to what happened against Khachanov in the Paris final 2 weeks ago!

He stopped sliding in the past 1-2 matches.

I'm not saying a serious injury. He was likely physically beat and also didn't want to cause any further harm.

He obviously done something to exert and got fearful when he kept hitting net.
 

Zara

G.O.A.T.
When did Lendl coach Sampras? They were rivals on the court!! :)

Sampras stayed with Lendl in his house for a few days as he needed to get disciplined and there was no one to teach him better than Lendl. Lendl shared a lot of tips with him and they practised together as well. He basically instilled that ironman like mentality into Sampras though I'd say Pete was born with it. This happened before Sampras became big. I do think Pete would have hired Lendl as his coach if Lendl had retired by then but as you said, they were still competing on the court as rivals.

I thought you'd know this, Mainad!
 
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Tennisgods

Hall of Fame
On replay. 1-1 second set. Djock serving 15-15. Long rally. Djock loses point. Noticeable winded. Because of fatigue tries a drop shot at the beginning of point. It's short. Can't recover physically. Match over. This match was lost because Djocks strength and conditioning still not up to par. Z played well, but didn't face the real Djokovic.

Sure.
 
On replay. 1-1 second set. Djock serving 15-15. Long rally. Djock loses point. Noticeable winded. Because of fatigue tries a drop shot at the beginning of point. It's short. Can't recover physically. Match over. This match was lost because Djocks strength and conditioning still not up to par. Z played well, but didn't face the real Djokovic.
For anyone actually fully paying attention throughout this match, this was outstandingly obvious.

The very moment this happened, I placed a money bet against him winning the set and ended up winning the bet. That was because it was very obvious.
 

Apun94

Hall of Fame
I might be prepared to give more credence to this if I had seen any signs of him struggling at all through any of his matches this week but there were none whatsoever. He never lost serve once all week until the final. I don't think we can use the injury excuse. He just got outplayed with some great serving and returning from Zverev curiously similar to what happened against Khachanov in the Paris final 2 weeks ago!
Kachanov actually played a lot better than either of the finalists today
 

Mr.Lob

G.O.A.T.
For anyone actually fully paying attention throughout this match, this was outstandingly obvious.

The very moment this happened, I placed a money bet against him winning the set and ended up winning the bet. That was because it was very obvious.

Guess it wasnt obvious to the person you placed the bet with? How much you win?
 
Guess it wasnt obvious to the person you placed the bet with? How much you win?
It was bet365 and I put down £2 for a total return of £4.70.

I would have bet more but I wasn't fully certain it was djokovic playing possum (acting injured, then comes back fully in a sly way) as he has done in the past.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Sampras stayed with Lendl in his house for a few days as he needed to get disciplined and there was no one to teach him better than Lendl. Lendl shared a lot of tips with him and they practised together as well. He basically instilled that ironman like mentally into Sampras though I'd say Pete was born with it. This happened before Sampras became big. I do think Pete would have hired Lendl as his coach if Lendl had retired by then but as you said, they were still competing on the court as rivals.

I thought you'd know this, Mainad!

Nope, never knew that. Never even suspected it. Always assumed Lendl was single-mindedly focussed on his playing career whilst he was still active. I guess he never ceases to surprise me!
 
D

Deleted member 3771

Guest
I actually don't understand this matchup. Sasha first beat Nole in straight sets in Rome, no competition and then Nole beat him twice (Shanghai and here in RR) in pretty two straight sets and now, Zed beat Nole again in two simple straight sets.

It's almost like each one is beaten mentally before each game.

It's not that hard to understand,. Zed is a less experienced but bigger and better version of Djokovic, and his level and mentality is more variable so it was very impressive for him to turn around his mentality vs Djokovic after the rr match. Zed was just zoned in for the final. I thought he was slightly outplaying Djokovic in the first set of the rr match before he narrowly missed the lob on BP and he seemed to have a mental letdown after that.

Nole’s second serve collapsed relative to his first 4 matches. He won 75% against Anderson, 91% against Cilic , 70% against Zverev in RR, and 85% against Isner. Only 35% today.

I think it was a case of cause and effect with Zverev putting constant pressure on Djokovic in the final.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Sampras stayed with Lendl in his house for a few days as he needed to get disciplined and there was no one to teach him better than Lendl. Lendl shared a lot of tips with him and they practised together as well. He basically instilled that ironman like mentally into Sampras though I'd say Pete was born with it. This happened before Sampras became big. I do think Pete would have hired Lendl as his coach if Lendl had retired by then but as you said, they were still competing on the court as rivals.

I thought you'd know this, Mainad!
Yes, Pete trained with Lendl in Greenwich for 3 weeks in November, 1989 (though Pete didn't stay in Ivan's house, but in a guest house on the grounds). Then Pete went out and beat Ivan in the USO QF's the summer following their training block.
 

Zara

G.O.A.T.
Nope, never knew that. Never even suspected it. Always assumed Lendl was single-mindedly focussed on his playing career whilst he was still active. I guess he never ceases to surprise me!

It was Lendl who invited Pete. You can read more about it in the link below:

https://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/deuce-us-open-2010-sampras

Shy and impressionable, 18-year-old Pete Sampras arrived at the house of World No. 1 Ivan Lendl in Greenwich, Connecticut, in November 1989. He had replaced high school with tennis' nomadic life in the single-minded pursuit of becoming a great champion when he turned pro in Philadelphia 20 months earlier. As a natural talent, with an attacking style that was so fluent, even artistic, as to make the sport appear easy, his game was in complete contrast to that of Lendl.

Lendl worked for everything. On the court, he dominated his opponents from the baseline until they buckled. Off the court, he lived the American dream, retiring to his 15,000-square-foot house behind six-foot high fencing and protected by two alarm systems. It was at this house Lendl invited Sampras for 10 days, prior to competing at the Nabisco Masters in Madison Square Garden, New York City.

"Ivan wanted to see me play, so he gave me a call and invited me to his house, which was an eye-opener," recalls Sampras. "It was huge. Ivan and his wife, Samantha, made me feel welcome and comfortable.

"He soon had me biking 20 to 25 miles a day. And we spoke about my tennis, how hard you have to work if you want to make it to the top. I learnt a lot about how a top professional trained and how he looked after himself."

Lendl, who will compete for the first time on the ATP Champions Tour at Paris in October, remembers, "He stayed for about 10 days and observed everything. I could tell Pete was a huge talent, but [he] was still young and was still developing his game. Even the serve was still unrefined. I did not predict he would go on and win 14 majors."

Sampras had sampled the disciplined lifestyle and immediately returned to Bradenton, Florida, to re-join his friend Jim Courier at the IMG-Bollettieri Tennis Academy, where he was living, and where he would start to bulk up his muscles and develop his game as an instigator, which he had showcased in beating defending champion Mats Wilander at the US Open.
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
I think it was a case of cause and effect with Zverev putting constant pressure on Djokovic in the final.
Zev played well but Nole saw his second serve wins fall from 70%-90% in the first four matches (including one with Zev) to 15% in the second set today. Something happened to him, whatever it was. A bad day, tired, mentally out. Who knows.
 
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BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
It was Lendl who invited Pete. You can read more about it in the link below:

https://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/deuce-us-open-2010-sampras

Shy and impressionable, 18-year-old Pete Sampras arrived at the house of World No. 1 Ivan Lendl in Greenwich, Connecticut, in November 1989. He had replaced high school with tennis' nomadic life in the single-minded pursuit of becoming a great champion when he turned pro in Philadelphia 20 months earlier. As a natural talent, with an attacking style that was so fluent, even artistic, as to make the sport appear easy, his game was in complete contrast to that of Lendl.

Lendl worked for everything. On the court, he dominated his opponents from the baseline until they buckled. Off the court, he lived the American dream, retiring to his 15,000-square-foot house behind six-foot high fencing and protected by two alarm systems. It was at this house Lendl invited Sampras for 10 days, prior to competing at the Nabisco Masters in Madison Square Garden, New York City.

"Ivan wanted to see me play, so he gave me a call and invited me to his house, which was an eye-opener," recalls Sampras. "It was huge. Ivan and his wife, Samantha, made me feel welcome and comfortable.

"He soon had me biking 20 to 25 miles a day. And we spoke about my tennis, how hard you have to work if you want to make it to the top. I learnt a lot about how a top professional trained and how he looked after himself."

Lendl, who will compete for the first time on the ATP Champions Tour at Paris in October, remembers, "He stayed for about 10 days and observed everything. I could tell Pete was a huge talent, but [he] was still young and was still developing his game. Even the serve was still unrefined. I did not predict he would go on and win 14 majors."

Sampras had sampled the disciplined lifestyle and immediately returned to Bradenton, Florida, to re-join his friend Jim Courier at the IMG-Bollettieri Tennis Academy, where he was living, and where he would start to bulk up his muscles and develop his game as an instigator, which he had showcased in beating defending champion Mats Wilander at the US Open.
When Pete beat Ivan at the USO, the fact he had trained with Lendl made HUGE news at the time and Lendl even attempted a few flat jokes about it. That match signified the end of the Lendl era. As an enormous fan of Ivan, I was devastated and never liked Sampras after that. I still don't like him, 28 years later. :happydevil:
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Some of the posts in the first few pages of this thread are such a fun read. :)
Hey, I'm quite glad to be wrong!

Don't get me wrong. No disrespect to Djokovic, but isn't this exactly what a whole bunch of us have been talking about and hoping for? Someone younger to step up and change the balance of things?

I never said this is a weak era, or that the young guys are crap, or that there are no good young athletes in tennis. You never saw such thoughts from me. I've only said that the average for players peaking is going up. Which means that for young Z winning this at age 21 is actually a bigger accomplishment than it used to be, if I'm right. ;)
 

Tennisgods

Hall of Fame
It has nothing to do with age. Did you actually watch the tournament and see what he did to everyone including Zverev before the match? All his matches were over quickly. He was miles beyond anyone in this tournament this week but this player today is not the one that played the other 4 matches this week.

And that’s the way it goes sometimes. Not sure what happened with Djokovic but every credit to Zverev.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
When Pete beat Ivan at the USO, the fact he had trained with Lendl made HUGE news at the time and Lendl even attempted a few flat jokes about it. That match signified the end of the Lendl era. As an enormous fan of Ivan, I was devastated and never liked Sampras after that. I still don't like him, 28 years later. :happydevil:

Lendl obviously trained him well. He is even more impressive as a coach than I had supposed. Great player, great coach! How many former players can say that?
 

Zara

G.O.A.T.
When Pete beat Ivan at the USO, the fact he had trained with Lendl made HUGE news at the time and Lendl even attempted a few flat jokes about it. That match signified the end of the Lendl era. As an enormous fan of Ivan, I was devastated and never liked Sampras after that. I still don't like him, 28 years later. :happydevil:

Lmho! So the prodigy took the master to the task. I wonder if Lendl ever regretted it but I highly doubt it. He's a great human being (not to mention, a great teacher!) in disguise. Sampras might have ended a few careers (early or not) once he started peaking in the early 90s. A few players got discouraged as they probably didn't feel they could beat Sampras with their game including Agassi.

Awww....but it's okay. I think in a competitive sport like tennis, it's quite understood.
 
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Zara

G.O.A.T.
Lendl obviously trained him well. He is even more impressive as a coach than I had supposed. Great player, great coach! How many former players can say that?

A very unique individual, Lendl. I just have a world of respect for him. Quite unfortunately, a few Murray fans still don't like him even after what he did for our Andy.
 

Zara

G.O.A.T.
Hey, I'm quite glad to be wrong!

Don't get me wrong. No disrespect to Djokovic, but isn't this exactly what a whole bunch of us have been talking about and hoping for? Someone younger to step up and change the balance of things?

I never said this is a weak era, or that the young guys are crap, or that there are no good young athletes in tennis. You never saw such thoughts from me. I've only said that the average for players peaking is going up. Which means that for young Z winning this at age 21 is actually a bigger accomplishment than it used to be, if I'm right. ;)

No worries! You'd be the last person to say any such thing. It was just fun reading predictionwise.

Zverev is my personal favourite but I love all the young ones and have been supporting Meles in his crusade for a while now!
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
No worries! You'd be the last person to say any such thing. It was just fun reading predictionwise.

Zverev is my personal favourite but I love all the young ones and have been supporting Meles in his crusade for a while now!
Me too. I think Meles is right. His only flaw sometimes being too optimistic too soon. ;)
 

Zara

G.O.A.T.
Me too. I think Meles is right. His only flaw sometimes being too optimistic too soon. ;)

Yes, Meles does get carried away at times. I don't think he'll be able to sleep tonight. lmho!

Unlike Meles, I don't believe in drastic change unless it happens naturally. I feel a gradual change is more apt. Besides, it does take a lot to break through a barrier like Federer-Nadal-Djokovic and then you have Murray and Wawrinka. The expectation is nothing short of climbing the Everest. Not too many people understand this and are very quick to make fun of the next generation and Meles.

It's just that the previous generation (or the Lost Gen) has disappointed a great deal as no one truly came through but I can't fault them either.
 
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Mainad

Bionic Poster
A very unique individual, Lendl. I just have a world of respect for him. Quite unfortunately, a few Murray fans still don't like him even after what he did for our Andy.

I have the utmost respect for him for what he did for Andy but I confess to being disappointed in him that he bolted and left after both times Andy was forced to undergo surgery (first in 2014 and then towards the end of 2017) instead of staying to help with his rehabilitation. Andy was stunned when Lendl walked out the first time (citing pressing family issues that frankly rang a bit hollow) but he was happy to reunite with him just before 2016 Queen's when Lendl could see that he was obviously back to playing his best again (it was Lendl who called Andy in the first place and suggested reuniting). I guess he wasn't so upset the second time he walked as he had probably expected by then that it was what Ivan would do.

I'm guessing those other Murray fans feel the way they do for exactly the same reason. I just hope Sasha Zverev keeps healthy for his sakes (although at only 21 I expect his body has got years ahead of it before any physical problems might arise).
 
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