2018 ATP Finals Final: (1.) Novak Djokovic vs. (3.) Alexander Zverev

Who will win this match?


  • Total voters
    70
  • Poll closed .

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
CnA_fDkWgAAWBfe.jpg
Andy passed away, when did this happen ? It was prolly andy's dog, right ?
 

Zara

G.O.A.T.
I have the utmost respect for him for what he did for Andy but I confess to being disappointed in him that he bolted and left after both times Andy was forced to undergo surgery (first in 2014 and then towards the end of 2017) instead of staying to help with his rehabilitation. Andy was stunned when Lendl walked out the first time (citing pressing family issues that frankly rang a bit hollow) but he was happy to reunite with him just before 2016 Queen's when Lendl could see that he was obviously back to playing his best again (it was Lendl who called Andy in the first place and suggested reuniting). I guess he wasn't so upset the second time he walked as he had probably expected by then that it was what Ivan would do.

I'm guessing those other Murray fans feel the way they do for exactly the same reason. I just hope Sasha Zverev keeps healthy for his sakes (although at only 21 I expect his body has got years ahead of it before any physical problems might arise).

It sounds rough but I think Lendl saw that Andy would take ample time to come back from the 2013 operation and he didn't want to stick around for a long recovery that he somehow envisioned (knows Andy so well) Andy would take. So once Mauresmo was appointed, there was a certain rift among Murray fans as half of them sided with Amelie and hated Lendl for leaving Andy. I was always with Lendl but never hated Amelie. Why should I? Just didn't feel she was capable of taking Andy to the next level but looking back, she was very much needed. She gave the very comfort Andy needed at that time. I will never forget the day Andy lost to Dimitrov at Wimbledon and how tensed everything was, just incredible. I could tell something had terribly gone wrong but couldn't tell that at the time that Amelie was appointed as the next coach and that had caused certain tension within the team. This was never the case with Lendl.

Anyway, was very happy to see Lendl back again, obviously but I know quite a few of them still hold that grudge against him.
 
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Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Yes, Meles does get carried away at times. I don't think he'll be able to sleep tonight. lmho!
In @Meles defense, I think he's been more about saying repeatably that a bunch of very negative and often not too well informed fans have done everything they can to assert that tennis has pretty much gone to hell. So I agree with a lot of his big ideas. I've been pushing the idea for some time that the previous years have been a lot like the very beginning of the OE. Think of when Laver totally dominated in 1969, turning 31 by the USO. That was by no means the end of his career. But he did not put as much emphasis later on slams because the whole structure of tennis was so much different. Really tennis was mostly an old players game right up to when Connors broke through. It was not as extreme as recent tennis, but there are a lot more factors that prop up older players today.
 

Zara

G.O.A.T.
It's not that hard to understand,. Zed is a less experienced but bigger and better version of Djokovic, and his level and mentality is more variable so it was very impressive for him to turn around his mentality vs Djokovic after the rr match. Zed was just zoned in for the final. I thought he was slightly outplaying Djokovic in the first set of the rr match before he narrowly missed the lob on BP and he seemed to have a mental letdown after that.

It's just that every match has gone in a similar fashion between them. We have yet to see a 3 setter or even a TB. Hope they meet in a Slam next time.

On the other hand, Zverev has yet to beat Nadal even though their matches have been pretty close.
 

sredna42

Hall of Fame
Most obvious Lendl Coaching difference is that Sasha is going for his 1st serve more, consistently in 130's to 140's. and he is coming to the net like Nishikori did against Federer with much success. This is all Lendl right there.

Yep, he kept pushing up against Fed, and was actually making those volleys. Was hammering the 1st serve, and also what I really liked was that it seems he finally took a step closer to the baseline as his default position. If he can make it natural, he'll start mowing people down.

Where he usually stands, far back, hitting balls with no depth over the net, and giving his opponent lots of time, that's like hand feeding a lion against djokovic.
 

Alba Barragan

Professional
Novak can be such a gracious loser sometimes. Some of his comments after the defeat:

“There’s a lot of similarities in terms of trajectory of professional tennis, in our careers. Hopefully he can surpass me. I sincerely wish him that. He seems like someone that is very dedicated. Without a doubt, he’s a really nice person, someone that gets along very well with everyone,” said Djokovic of Zverev.

“He deserves everything he gets so far. There’s a lot of time ahead of him. Wish him to stay healthy and obviously win a lot of titles.”
 
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Zara

G.O.A.T.
In @Meles defense, I think he's been more about saying repeatably that a bunch of very negative and often not too well informed fans have done everything they can to assert that tennis has pretty much gone to hell. So I agree with a lot of his big ideas. I've been pushing the idea for some time that the previous years have been a lot like the very beginning of the OE. Think of when Laver totally dominated in 1969, turning 31 by the USO. That was by no means the end of his career. But he did not put as much emphasis later on slams because the whole structure of tennis was so much different. Really tennis was mostly an old players game right up to when Connors broke through. It was not as extreme as recent tennis, but there are a lot more factors that prop up older players today.

What I truly dislike is how the forum (or any general forum for that matter) has taken over by the big 3 fan bases and it's almost always about them. And there's just no end to going back and forth on silly matters, so a win by Zverev is so refreshing to me. But quite unfortunately, even after this win, the forum is still trending in the same fashion. Tennis might have gone to hell forever but I sincerely hope that's not the case and that, in another decade or so, it will recover from this fanatic state.
 

Plamen1234

Hall of Fame
It seems like the MAFIA was involved in this outcome. :D
Sorry but Zverev was just lucky not to play the Ultron.

However, it is quite refreshing that somebody else than Novak takes the cake.

Ultron havent been since since FO 2016 and I doubt it will appear again.This year Djokovic have been playing good post RG but it hasnt been so special as some claim.Beating Anderson,terrible Federer in Cincy,Del Mugtro and the Djokovic wannabe Coric doesnt require a lot.He is away from his 2015-early 2016 form.
 

Zara

G.O.A.T.
Novak can be such a gracious loser sometimes. Some of his comments after the defeat:

Nole is just a wonderful person. He always was and always will be.

I do think all the big guys (Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray), they all love Zverev very much and see him as the next Champion. Or at the very least, they like the fact that, Sasha has taken his tennis very seriously.
 
Lendl perhaps started coaching Murray a little to late in his career, he definitely had an impact but then the injuries got in the way, maybe Lendl has learnt like tennis players do, where his skills lie and the best use of them, he was not up for coaching the "bird" even though he was a countryman
Z is young, and hopefully injuries are not part of his make-up, (which perhaps is more evident with other players and I don't include Murray in this)
Z in his acceptance speech acknowledged Lendi, but gave most of the credit to his father, I liked that.
Was trying to quote a post about Z and his coach, but don't seem to be able to that sorry- if my post seem out of context
 
Great win for Zverev. I root for Fed first, but it is nice to see some fresh blood in the men's game. Will be interesting to see if he can build on this breakthrough and get some better results in the slams.

Even with the results from Paris and here I think Djokovic is the person to beat, at least in the Australian Open.
 

swordtennis

G.O.A.T.
Massive win for Zverev.
Just proving how little the difference is between all these players.
Lendl is already making a difference. Kachanov and Zverev will be going into the majors with big confidence.
Now it is time for 7 5 set matches Majors.
Djokovic should be ok. since Paris he has been dealing with that cold. Tissues in his pockets blowing his nose. He was tighter than an drum in todays match. Shots just barely clearing the net.
He needs to clear that crud up and get back to work. By the AO it should be cleared out of his system.
I am sure lots of people will be screaming and ranting about his demise.
But he played great and made 2 big finals.
I still think he has 4 more years where he wins 1-2 majors.
You can not show up half a@@ed and expect to beat any of these top players.
 

swordtennis

G.O.A.T.
Ultron havent been since since FO 2016 and I doubt it will appear again.This year Djokovic have been playing good post RG but it hasnt been so special as some claim.Beating Anderson,terrible Federer in Cincy,Del Mugtro and the Djokovic wannabe Coric doesnt require a lot.He is away from his 2015-early 2016 form.
Ah yes TTW pros. Good god.
All these pros are tough opponents.
Wimbledon, USO, Cincinnati, Shanghai, Paris, WTF.
W, W, W, W, F, F.
Does not require A LOT!
 

Pheasant

Legend
When Pete beat Ivan at the USO, the fact he had trained with Lendl made HUGE news at the time and Lendl even attempted a few flat jokes about it. That match signified the end of the Lendl era. As an enormous fan of Ivan, I was devastated and never liked Sampras after that. I still don't like him, 28 years later. :happydevil:

I had no idea that you were a Lendl fan. I was a huge McEnroe fan in the 1980’s. And I couldn’t stand Lendl, mainly because he really rained on Mac’s parade. But I really respect Lendl’s game now. I think he is the most underrated ATG.

Imagine that guy with today’s massive rackets on much slower courts.
 

3fees

G.O.A.T.
Congrats to Zverev blnt Djokovic... Djokovic earns 800 points and pulls further in the lead as No 1 ATP, Zverev finishes 4th on the roster .. Great 2nd Half of the season for Djokovic..

Check that 1000 points 3 RR x 200 + 1 SF x 400 = 1000 ATP points

Cheers
3Fees :)
 
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Zara

G.O.A.T.
From the same article from ATP:

In 1990, Flushing Meadow earned the nickname 'Flushing Mellow', when tennis-mad Mayor David Dinkins prevailed upon the air-traffic controllers at nearby LaGuardia Airport to redirect the deafening flights of runway 13, away from the National Tennis Center. It meant an aviation-free fortnight, rather than the final-weekend deference the Federal Aviation Administration had shown in previous years. It also went some way to persuade US Open officials to keep the event in Queens after the lease expired in 1994.

Sampras, always an anti-entourage player, booked himself into the Parker Meridien hotel in New York City with his coach, Brandi. At that time, he had four Top 10 wins and two titles in 45 tournaments to his name.

Named No. 12 seed, Sampras remembers, "I arrived at the US Open as an outsider. No one realistically thought I would have a chance to go really deep in the draw, let alone win it. I think the experts figured I wouldn't play that well and that I was going to roll over."

Sampras rolled through his first three matches without the loss of a set, against Dan Goldie, Peter Lundgren, Jakob Hlasek. Through to the Last 16, Sampras played down his title chances. "Maybe in a couple of years, but I don't think it's realistic right now." He went on to overcome an upset stomach to beat World No. 6 Thomas Muster, who had made a miraculous return after a drunk driver severed ligaments in his left leg in March 1989.

In the quarter-finals he met his mentor, World No. 3 Lendl, a hard-court powerhouse and three-time US Open champion. "Ivan was looking to reach the US Open final for the ninth straight year, but my game matched up well with his and he was slowing down," says Sampras, who had greater power and proved more resourceful.

Brandi reveals, "Lendl was his most difficult match. Pete won the first two sets, but found himself at 1-5 down in the fourth set. I remember saying to a friend alongside me, 'If he doesn’t win at least two games in this set he will be in trouble come the decider.'"

Lendl, who had compiled an outstanding 55-5 record at Flushing Meadows since 1982, confesses, "When I came back from 2-0 down in sets to 2-2, I thought I would win - but Pete kept serving great and was able to adjust the rest of his game. That was the first time I thought he could win a good number of majors."
Lendl won the fourth set 6-4, but Sampras broke early in the fifth set and eventually won 6-4, 7-6(4), 3-6, 4-6, 6-2. "I was not happy losing," says Lendl, who would eventually retire due to chronic back pain in 1994 having won eight majors from 19 finals. "At the time, I felt he was always going to stand or fall with his serve."

================================================

I am probably being a bit biased here and I didn't see the match, obviously but that 1990 USO run by Sampras might have been one of the greatest runs in tennis history.
 

swordtennis

G.O.A.T.
why you so underestimate him in the next 4 years..he can win at least 3 by that period:cool:
He can win 1-2 majors each year for the next 4 years that is def not out of the question.
I predicted he would win 15 majors years ago. So I tend to be conservative. But I think he can get to 18.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Question........so Where was his brother Misha in all this ???????? He wasn't in his friends box at all..... Where oh where ?
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
Congrats to Zverev blnt Djokovic... Djokovic earns 800 points and pulls further in the lead as No 1 ATP, Zverev finishes 4th on the roster .. Great 2nd Half of the season for Djokovic..

Cheers
3Fees :)
1000 points, right? Not 800.
 

3fees

G.O.A.T.
One other positive. Djokovic looks thicker with more mass. His legs look strong.
Upper body has some bulk too.

Djokovic is where he wants to be,, he is not defending Nitto either and still 1500 points ahead of 2nd Place--going into AO 2019 and then the Sunshine Double is up for grabs.. :)

Cheers
3Fees :)
 

chjtennis

G.O.A.T.
I had a strange feeling that we may have WTF winner who is not one of Big 4 for the 2nd consecutive year after Dimitrov last year, but didn't want to say that to avoid jinxing Sascha. This is definitely a transition period where old legends' late career overlap with the ascension of future no.1s. I think the success of Big 4 will be quite sporadic over the next couple of years until they all retire, while the young guns like Zverev will rise to the top. I hope this is the breakthrough win for Sascha in his career. I always believed he is one big title away from being a legitimate threat to win slams consistently. Well done to him.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
I had no idea that you were a Lendl fan. I was a huge McEnroe fan in the 1980’s. And I couldn’t stand Lendl, mainly because he really rained on Mac’s parade.

@Pheasant I will never love any player as much as I loved Ivan because I was a child when I loved him. And love from a child is a deep, passionate and innocent love. I detested Mac then... literally cried when he beat Lendl in big matches. But now I love him, go figure. I still have my Lendl scrapbooks, the tickets to all the matches and exos I watched him in... I still have it all. Love him STILL and forever.

ivan-lendl-of-czechoslovakia-during-a-mens-singles-match-at-the-lawn-picture-id831991690
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Just watching some of the second right now - gotta say Djoko looks flat, but props to Z for making him play and look like that. Just a pity that never happens, when he plays Fed in a big final ;-)

The kid just took out the 2 most successfull WTF players from the past 20 years in straights - respect!

watch the first set !
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
@Pheasant I will never love any player as much as I loved Ivan because I was a child when I loved him. And love from a child is a deep, passionate and innocent love. I detested Mac then... literally cried when he beat Lendl in big matches. But now I love him, go figure. I still have my Lendl scrapbooks, the tickets to all the matches and exos I watched him in... I still have it all. Love him STILL and forever.

ivan-lendl-of-czechoslovakia-during-a-mens-singles-match-at-the-lawn-picture-id831991690
Man, that racket he was using was like the heaviest graphite frame ever made. it made Sampras racket feel light
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
This is very impressive from Z

@Meles You maybe right, the diamond age could be upon us

@Spencer Gore - Looks like your feeling of the big three starting to lose their grip finally at the top might be right. Zverev about to back up his Federer win by beating an inform Djokovic...
This was just a perfect storm for Zverev where the leisurely match schedule of WTF allowed him to find some of his best. Majors will still be a hurdle in my mind. Amazed that Djoko was the one who tapped out physically before the end of the first set. I for one won't be counting him out as his form was top notch at this event and for most of the first set in the final before Zverev upped his level of play from the ground.
 

swordtennis

G.O.A.T.
It was great and amazed that Djoko was the one who physically fell away when Zverev started goating into the 2nd set.
O2e77Dd.gif
Kachanov and Zverev are fast big and strong brutes. Years ago players like this would be slow of foot.
The serving esp of Zverev had signs of being an all time great. Unplayable.
They have to solve the major puzzle now.
I think Djokovic on point is still the best of 5 king. I really would like to see Zverev or any young player in the 5th against Djokovic in a QF SF or Final.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Kachanov and Zverev are fast big and strong brutes. Years ago players like this would be slow of foot.
The serving esp of Zverev had signs of being an all time great. Unplayable.
They have to solve the major puzzle now.
I think Djokovic on point is still the best of 5 king. I really would like to see Zverev or any young player in the 5th against Djokovic in a QF SF or Final.
Well to my eyes Djokovic failed the fitness test by the end of the first set, so don't think he's taking them into a fifth. Zverev still has a ways to go at slams so very good chance they might not meet in 2019..... maybe even 2020 if they are 1&2 that year.

All of these towers are slower of foot than Djoko, but they hit hard enough to avoid getting ruthlessly exposed. Their (include Medvedev) big advantage is reach on first return which in both matches with Zverev at WTF drastically reducing the Djokovic ace rate. Medvedev and Zverev can get hot for a game or two on return and potentially even break good servers getting first serves in play. Today was a great match because both played extremely for stretches.
 
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