2018 Australian Open - Women's singles.

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

Also, very happy we are guarenteed a new slam champ and that it's between Halep and Wozniacki. No chance for either of them to choke it away as they've done before. One of them has to win it and that's that.

Eh, Wozniacki didn’t choke her finals. Clijsters and Serena are simply better than her. Poor luck in having to face them and not, say, Safina or Ivanovic.

Agreed. Woziniacki did not have a prayer in those two finals, and only had glimpses of opportunity...that faded away.

You are wrong about Halep.

When does she ever employ a different game? She's used the same for years, and al Cahill did was encourage her non-aggressive play. Wozniacki will need to be a human error machine and/or injured to lose.

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

It started out awful, but ended up being a really fun match.

Too bad Kerber got knocked out, but at least she’s off to a good start for the year. She pretty much always puts on a good show, so many epic matches in her career. Even before 2016, she was always a game challenger.

Yes, Kerber is a solid, smart player who knows how to challenge just about anyone--even a legend. I hope her run here is just a preview of her return to majors success.

I want Caro to win. She got so much abuse for being slamless and she has been trying to improve for a few years now. Hopefully it comes to fruition.

Yeah, I did not consider her much of anything early on, when the media (and certain ill-minded TTW members) were hyping her based only on being blonde, and people like Bud Collins were trying to brand her "sunshine". But I did appreciate her efforts (in recent years) to add more offense to her game and get in better shape. One would hope her hanging around Serena will influence her on how to win.

 

[tacou]

Halep is a slight favorite in the betting odds, however she's had a couple of long matches and her ankle issue could come back to haunt her. But it doesn't seem to be bothering her too much at this point. The match could really go either way

I mean Halep will choke. She can crush Woz. Woz will make her play. And the sf suggests she will fold. rlly hope otherwise

 

[Deleted member 293577]

Some astrophysicists theorize, that there exists a parallel universe or actually multiple universes, where alternate realities play out had we made different decisions. So, for example, had Lauren Davis and Jana Fett made different decisions on their match points they had (versus Halep and Wozniacki, respectively), they could have won those matches, and also theoretically gone on to reach the finals. And there is probably a TTW in that other universe where everyone is talking about that improbable final.

So, that gives me comfort to think that in some other universe, Davis is playing Fett in the final.

 

[Continental Grip]

Some astrophysicists theorize, that there exists a parallel universe or actually multiple universes, where alternate realities play out had we made different decisions. So, for example, had Lauren Davis and Jana Fett made different decisions on their match points they had (versus Halep and Wozniacki, respectively), they could have won those matches, and also theoretically gone on to reach the finals. And there is probably a TTW in that other universe where everyone is talking about that improbable final.

So, that gives me comfort to think that in some other universe, Davis is playing Fett in the final.

Although I think in that alternate universe, Hsieh took out Kerber. And Osaka took out Davis. So it's anyone's guess who made the finals.

 

[Deleted member 293577]

Although I think in that alternate universe, Hsieh took out Kerber. And Osaka took out Davis. So it's anyone's guess who made the finals.

Well, maybe in another universe altogether that outcome is happening.

 

[marc45]

first time both WTA slam finalists have saved match points

 

[JadeC]

Just finished watching the third set. Very up and down from both players, but a really great fight. They really put it all out there. It felt like a final, which makes me think the real final will be a letdown. I'm disappointed for Kerber, but I hope this is just the beginning for her and she can go on to win more majors.

Not sure who to root for in the final. It'll be nice for either player to win.

 

[spystud]

Kiki/Timea win the doubles title.

 

[Nostradamus]

Kiki/Timea win the doubles title.

Why does Craig Tiley look like and acting like he just smoked pot ??

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

...

When does she ever employ a different game? She's used the same for years, and al Cahill did was encourage her non-aggressive play. Wozniacki will need to be a human error machine and/or injured to lose.

Non-aggressive play? What match were you watching? Or DID you watch her AO matches against Kerber, Davis et al? Against Kerber, Halep hit 6 aces (3 DFs), 50 winners w/ 50 UEs. Some of those winners were aggressive volleys at the net (yes, she came in willingly to finish off points). Compare that to 0 aces, 33 winners, 34 UEs for Kerber.

Non-aggressive? Take another look at how she started out in the first set. And then take a look at how she was pushing Kerber around in the third set.

 

[travlerajm]

I thought Kerber was taking control of the match in the second set when she found a winning pattern by just hitting every forehand cross-court to Halep's backhand. She had the edge in those exchanges. But then in the third set, Halep started hitting more backhands down-the-line. Kerber tended to hit all of her own backhands cross-court to Halep's forehand, and Halep had the edge on these cross-court exchanges. I really think that if Kerber would have hit more down-the-line backhands (to reset the pattern so that she could use her reliable lefty cross-court forehand over-and-over again), she might have had a more successful final set.

 

[Vanhool]

...While it's true that Simona still chokes occasionally, she seems to recover faster and to make adjustments during the same match, lately.

E.g. when she was down 2 match points and negative against Kerber, not only did she listen to her box advises to:


1. Focus
2. Zip it
....

I know some players do this and it’s accepted to the point where commentators talk about it like it’s OK, but it really bothers me when players receive illegal coaching from the stands. She also asked him twice if she should challenge. Not hating on her for it, but it bothered me when I saw this. At the slam level, they should be coaching themselves to focus and zip it.

 

[cc0509]

The Wozniacki-Halep match is a toss-up IMO with the slight edge to Halep who has been fighting much better and harder these days and has upped her aggression.

 

[Fintft]

When does she ever employ a different game? She's used the same for years, and al Cahill did was encourage her non-aggressive play.

I can tell you haven't watched Halep playing in the AO.

You could at least, listen to what Serena's coach have to say about Simona's very aggressive play.

Not to mention she took the initiative away from the likes of Pliskova, whereas the Woz hasn't played a single top 20 opponent.

 

[Fintft]

I know some players do this and it’s accepted to the point where commentators talk about it like it’s OK, but it really bothers me when players receive illegal coaching from the stands. She also asked him twice if she should challenge. Not hating on her for it, but it bothered me when I saw this. At the slam level, they should be coaching themselves to focus and zip it.

You are right, but I'm still happy with her attitude change.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

@ScentOfDefeat @THUNDERVOLLEY

I can tell you haven't watched Halep playing in the AO.

You could at least, listen to what Serena's coach have to say about Simona's very aggressive play.

Not to mention she took the initiative away from the likes of Pliskova ...

Agreed. This is pretty much what I was saying in my previous post above. After writing that post, I went back and watched the third set again from a different feed. Both commentators on that replay kept remarking how aggressive Simona's play was in that last set

I know some players do this and it’s accepted to the point where commentators talk about it like it’s OK, but it really bothers me when players receive illegal coaching from the stands. She also asked him twice if she should challenge. Not hating on her for it, but it bothered me when I saw this. At the slam level, they should be coaching themselves to focus and zip it.

I saw that as well but don't really regard it as an egregious act. I don't really see a problem with that kind of feedback at all. It's not like the type of actual coaching from the stands that I believe that Uncle Tony and Richard Williams have supposedly done.

With bounces that are very close to or at the opposite end of the court, it is often very difficult to make that determination. Players are probably already getting some feedback from the crowd in general with regards to close shots. So I don't really see it as a big deal they are looking to a specific person in the crowd for such an opinion.

In numerous other sports, coaching from the sidelines is the norm.

 

[Fintft]

Non-aggressive play? What match were you watching? Or DID you watch her AO matches against Kerber, Davis et al? Against Kerber, Halep hit 6 aces (3 DFs), 50 winners w/ 50 UEs. Some of those winners were aggressive volleys at the net (yes, she came in willingly to finish off points). Compare that to 0 aces, 33 winners, 34 UEs for Kerber.

Non-aggressive? Take another look at how she started out in the first set. And then take a look at how she was pushing Kerber around in the third set.

Even the German papers say the same, not to mention the likes of Mouratoglou , Willander etc.

 

[ALEXT]

The final will come down to which players will show up. If the same Halep from the last 4 matches will show up - mentally, physically, aggression, accuracy of shots, service, etc... she will have a big chance to win.

Wozniacki is a tough opponent, no doubt about it, and she played well in this tournament although she had a relatively easy path to final in her half of the draw. She definitely realizes that this is THE chance to finally get the elusive GS she's been chasing for so many years and I'm sure she will raise her level to the max and she'll use all her experience at the top of the tour to cross the finish line.

The margin will be very slim between the two if both bring their best on the court, and if that happens it will be a good final. May the best win!

Whomever wins this match, deserves the #1 spot. There is no better way to settle between #1 and #2 than a GS final.

 

[PDJ]

@ScentOfDefeat @THUNDERVOLLEY


Agreed. This is pretty much what I was saying in my previous post above. After writing that post, I went back and watched the third set again from a different feed. Both commentators on that replay kept remarking how aggressive Simona's play was in that last set



I saw that as well but don't really regard it as an egregious act. I don't really see a problem with that kind of feedback at all. It's not like the type of actual coaching from the stands that I believe that Uncle Tony and Richard Williams have supposedly done.

With bounces that are very close to or at the opposite end of the court, it is often very difficult to make that determination. Players are probably already getting some feedback from the crowd in general with regards to close shots. So I don't really see it as a big deal they are looking to a specific person in the crowd for such an opinion.

In numerous other sports, coaching from the sidelines is the norm.

We will agree to disagree re on-court coaching.
I agree with you, to a point, that Halep has been aggressive more generally. However, I also agree with @THUNDERVOLLEY that she also plays to a similar pattern. Her match with Kerber, did indeed show Halep to be generally more aggressive than her opponent BUT she allowed Kerber back in to that match because she failed to take advantage of said aggression. I lost count how many times Kerber stayed in a point with sheer defence because Halep rarely came in on what should have been amazing approach shots.
To sum up, I think you both make valid points.
Personally I think the final is Halep's to lose.

 

[Fintft]

I lost count how many times Kerber stayed in a point with sheer defence because Halep rarely came in on what should have been amazing approach shots.

I think that low break point conversion counted more in those comebacks, in no small part due to bad ROS by Halep when she had BPs. So it wasn't the lack of coming in, imho.

Kerber was much more opportunistic on BPs, like 7/7 whereas Halep was at best 50% (more like 30%).

And I do remember Federer having the same problem when losing to Nadal, so Halep at least won against a stubborn defender like Kerber, so more props to her (considering that aggression is something that she is just getting back to, since 2013).

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I think that low break point conversion counted more in those comebacks, in no small part due to bad ROS by Halep when she had BPs. So it wasn't the lack of coming in, imho.

Kerber was much more opportunistic on BPs, like 7/7 whereas Halep was at best 50% (more like 30%).

And I do remember Federer having the same problem when losing to Nadal, so Halep at least won against a stubborn defender like Kerber, so more props to her (considering that aggression is something that she is just getting back to, since 2013).

You may be right about that. But note that, even though she had a lower percentage of conversions, Halep actually converted more times than Kerber did -- 9 times vs 7 times. Simon's conversion rate was just under 42%. Not that unusual really. Normally you would expect a server to win more than 50% of their serve points. Usually a lot higher when they get their first serve in.

 

[PDJ]

I think that low break point conversion counted more in those comebacks, in no small part due to bad ROS by Halep when she had BPs. So it wasn't the lack of coming in, imho.

Kerber was much more opportunistic on BPs, like 7/7 whereas Halep was at best 50% (more like 30%).

And I do remember Federer having the same problem when losing to Nadal, so Halep at least won against a stubborn defender like Kerber, so more props to her (considering that aggression is something that she is just getting back to, since 2013).

I think you miss my point. Watch the highlights again and count how many balls Halep could have come in and finished the point with a competent volley. I promise you will lose count. She does come in on her own volition, but rarely. Very rarely. It's a similar match that she had with Kerber at Wimbledon but at least this time she was on the right side of the result.
And, truthfully Halep should have won in two but those double faults cost her in the second set. As did her faltering and allowing Kerber back in the first set.
Yes she played well, and her composure is to be admired, but personally I think she's still got a lot of work to do to be a multiple champion.

 

[skyline]

I think Halep served extremely well overall. Yes, there were untimely DFs, but nowhere near enough to truly take away from the quality of her serving. I agree however with PDJ that approaching more on her shots might have saved her quite a few games. Considering she's playing injured, she may yet regret it.

Simona's scared of the net as if there were a monster there awaiting her. I will never understand her commitment to scurrying around the baseline even when approaching the net is the clear, elegant, and point-winning tactic.

 

[PDJ]

I think Halep served extremely well overall. Yes, there were untimely DFs, but nowhere near enough to truly take away from the quality of her serving. I agree however with PDJ that approaching more on her shots might have saved her quite a few games. Considering she's playing injured, she may yet regret it.

Simona's scared of the net as if there were a monster there awaiting her. I will never understand her commitment to scurrying around the baseline even when approaching the net is the clear, elegant, and point-winning tactic.

I absolutely agree with this.
I wasn't commenting on the quality of her serving, just the timing of her double faults as in she was in the driving seat at the time.

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

I can tell you haven't watched Halep playing in the AO.

You could at least, listen to what Serena's coach have to say about Simona's very aggressive play.

Not to mention she took the initiative away from the likes of Pliskova, whereas the Woz hasn't played a single top 20 opponent.

Nonsense. I watch every match, and Halep's Cahill-ing around is no substitute for aggressive play, particularity when it comes to truly understanding the net, and not getting a point there as a last resort, or because someone forced you into it. Unlike some of the TTW bandwagoners, I was supporting Halep for quite awhile, while some of her "new" fans wrote her off as a defensive player with no weapons. The frustration here is that her chasing down every ball is not the making of a "classic" match (no matter who the opponent was/will be) or a great player. If that was the case, her 2017 would have been her breakthrough year at the majors, but it was not.

As noted yesterday, I would rather see Wozniacki win, because she has transformed her game from the early years of retrieving/being a human backboard. In short, she realized a major change was needed as was not so comfortable with her original game, that its impossible for her to learn new things when a troubled career demands it.

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

Simona's scared of the net as if there were a monster there awaiting her.

She's always played that way, and Cahill only built on that net-phobic problem. There's an entire court. Use it. Even brick-footed Roddick--once a committed, hardheaded baseliner--had to learn to play the net (in his own way) in order to have the chances he did against Federer and others.

 

[Fintft]

Nonsense. I watch every match, and Halep's Cahill-ing around is no substitute for aggressive play, particularity when it comes to truly understanding the net, and not getting a point there as a last resort, or because someone forced you into it. Unlike some of the TTW bandwagoners, I was supporting Halep for quite awhile, while some of her "new" fans wrote her off as a defensive player with no weapons. The frustration here is that her chasing down every ball is not the making of a "classic" match (no matter who the opponent was/will be) or a great player. If that was the case, her 2017 would have been her breakthrough year at the majors, but it was not.

As noted yesterday, I would rather see Wozniacki win, because she has transformed her game from the early years of retrieving/being a human backboard. In short, she realized a major change was needed as was not so comfortable with her original game, that its impossible for her to learn new things when a troubled career demands it.

Ok gl with the Kerber's and Woz's of the world then.

 

[Fintft]

I think she's still got a lot of work to do to be a multiple champion.

Less then most WTA's top women though...And it's not clear what level Serena will be now after pregnancy and at her age.

 

[Fintft]

You may be right about that. But note that, even though she had a lower percentage of conversions, Halep actually converted more times than Kerberos did -- 9 times vs 7 times. Simon's conversion rate was just under 42%. Not that unusual really. Normally you would expect a server to win more than 50% of their serve points. Usually a lot higher when they get their first serve in.

Yes but Kerber wasn't serving well at all. Actually all she did well was counter punching occasionally...She was even gassed very early.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Yes but Kerber wasn't serving well at all. Actually all she did well was counter punching occasionally...She was even gassed very early.

Kerber was getting a very high percentage of 1st serves into play with no DFs at all in the match. In the 2nd and 3rd sets she was up to about 70% of her first serves in.

But, yeah, she was pretty much serving safely -- just spinning it in for the most part. Not a lot of mustard on her serves. I believe that most of her first serves were less than 100 mph. Only occasionally was she serving faster than 100. She got all of her second service into play. Her 2nd serve speed was about the same as Halep's -- close to 80 mph on average.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

She's always played that way, and Cahill only built on that net-phobic problem. There's an entire court. Use it. Even brick-footed Roddick--once a committed, hardheaded baseliner--had to learn to play the net (in his own way) in order to have the chances he did against Federer and others.

Roddick already knew how to play the net early in his career. It was usually his sub-par approach shots against Federer and others that usually got him into hot water. At least it was subpar for a high ATP level of play.

I believe he played a lot of doubles as a junior and was playing a moderate amount of doubles as a pro up to 2004 and again later in his career. It really wasn't his volleys and overheads so much as it was the shots that he came in behind -- decent approach shots for lower levels of play but not against the world-class players he was playing with.

 

[cc0509]

She's always played that way, and Cahill only built on that net-phobic problem. There's an entire court. Use it. Even brick-footed Roddick--once a committed, hardheaded baseliner--had to learn to play the net (in his own way) in order to have the chances he did against Federer and others.

In fairness, Halep's been playing more aggressive tennis lately and she's been a bulldog. She refuses to give up which is in stark contrast to the Halep of six months ago. She's made improvements for sure.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

She's always played that way, and Cahill only built on that net-phobic problem. There's an entire court. Use it. Even brick-footed Roddick--once a committed, hardheaded baseliner--had to learn to play the net (in his own way) in order to have the chances he did against Federer and others.

I would've thought that Cahill has been encouraging/working with Halep a fair amt on net play. Darren himself was more accomplished in doubles than singles -- 13 doubles titles versus 3 singles titles. QF or better quite a few times in slam doubles. Reached top 10 as a doubles player but never quite made the top 20 in singles. Why would he not encourage more net play from Simona?

Simona also brought Andrei Pavel in as part of her coaching staff as of last fall. He fared a a little bit better in doubles then singles, especially later in his career.

 

[Vanhool]

@ScentOfDefeat @THUNDERVOLLEY


Agreed. This is pretty much what I was saying in my previous post above. After writing that post, I went back and watched the third set again from a different feed. Both commentators on that replay kept remarking how aggressive Simona's play was in that last set



I saw that as well but don't really regard it as an egregious act. I don't really see a problem with that kind of feedback at all. It's not like the type of actual coaching from the stands that I believe that Uncle Tony and Richard Williams have supposedly done.

With bounces that are very close to or at the opposite end of the court, it is often very difficult to make that determination. Players are probably already getting some feedback from the crowd in general with regards to close shots. So I don't really see it as a big deal they are looking to a specific person in the crowd for such an opinion.

In numerous other sports, coaching from the sidelines is the norm.

Yeah the line calls isn’t such a big deal, I know. When we went to the Cincy tournament, my girlfriend directly advised players about challenges from the stands a few times. Problem is, she’s not very good at it, so I don’t know if she helped them or hurt them. I guess they got what they paid for

I know I’m being picky, but it just bothers me when breaking the rules is so normalized that the commentators talk about it like it’s supposed to be happening. Sometimes they show the coaches and they are obviously giving signals as a preplanned strategy for illegal coaching! One time the camera cut to Bartoli’s dad and he was doing some weird thing with his finger and eye or nose and when the camera caught him he looked all guilty and stopped abruptly. Others don’t give a crap and keep doing it anyway like yesterday. I know that “focus” and “zip it” aren’t exactly highly technical coaching, but I just wonder if she would have refocused herself on her own or just spun further out of control and handed the match to Kerber. If the ITF and Kerber don’t care, I guess I shouldn’t

 

[Vanhool]

I think you miss my point. Watch the highlights again and count how many balls Halep could have come in and finished the point with a competent volley. I promise you will lose count. She does come in on her own volition, but rarely. Very rarely. It's a similar match that she had with Kerber at Wimbledon but at least this time she was on the right side of the result.
And, truthfully Halep should have won in two but those double faults cost her in the second set. As did her faltering and allowing Kerber back in the first set.
Yes she played well, and her composure is to be admired, but personally I think she's still got a lot of work to do to be a multiple champion.

I was frustrated at the overhead smash not being used a couple of times. I cant’t remember if it was one or both players, but lame....

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Great run by Mladenovic/Babos to win the doubles title by beating Makarova/Vesnina who were looking to complete the career slam, golden slam and super slam.

Defeated top seeds Chan/Hlavackova in the QF, former number 1's and 8th seeds Hsieh/Shuai and 2nd seeds Makarova/Vesnina.

Babos also in the mixed doubles final with Bopanna where they'll play Dabrowski/Pavic for the title.

Mladenovic not doing great at singles but perhaps going back to her doubles roots can help get her back on track.

 

[Vanhool]

Great run by Mladenovic/Babos to win the doubles title by beating Makarova/Vesnina who were looking to complete the career slam, golden slam and super slam.

Defeated top seeds Chan/Hlavackova in the QF, former number 1's and 8th seeds Hsieh/Shuai and 2nd seeds Makarova/Vesnina.

Babos also in the mixed doubles final with Bopanna where they'll play Dabrowski/Pavic for the title.

Mladenovic not doing great at singles but perhaps going back to her doubles roots can help get her back on track.

What is a super slam?

 

[Aussie Darcy]

What is a super slam?

4 slams, Olympic gold and YEC.

 

[Vanhool]

4 slams, Olympic gold and YEC.

Thanks

 

[spystud]

I don't do match threads, so see you kids in 2-3 hours.


Come on, Caro!!

 

[spystud]

<-------- How you like me now?!


My girl, holler.

 

[spystud]

 

[Pagoo]

Sweet Caroline! LOL

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

Wozniacki did it--and well deserved after recognizing the shortcomings in her original game (early years) and effectively adding offense that is not just "taking it to" the opponent, but cutting their game'a strengths apart. No one should forget that Wozniacki used to play Halep's game, so she had the advantage of knowing how Halep was going to respond in critical moments. Of course, as I believed, Halep played the same game over and over and over again, so she came tailor-made for Wozniacki.

 

[PDJ]

 

[marc45]

#AusOpen‏Verified account @AustralianOpen 1m1 minute ago
Life is but a dream...

@CaroWozniacki #AusOpen

 

[marc45]

#AusOpen‏Verified account @AustralianOpen
Caroline Wozniacki post-match interview (F)

https://twitter.com/AustralianOpen/status/957435039104593921

 

[70後]

Both players fought so hard, both could have won. Wozniacki has improved so much. This is the result, imo, of all the years of working hard to catch up with Serena. Wozniacki's confidence shows that she knows she is now a far better all round player than in the 2010, 2011 years. I reckon that 2018 Woz will easily crush 2010 Woz. Wozniacki today is better, smarter, maybe stronger and fitter than 2010 when she had some fat. Coincidentally, Serena was out during that exact period between 2010/2011 when Wozniacki was winning masters and covering everything but slams. Serena has forced them to be better players and to work harder; Henin, Azarenka, Li, Woz, Kerber etc. It was already clear in 2015, 2016 that yes, Wozniacki had improved, even if she didn't win her slam then. I was already thinking during Tokyo that with her work on her forehand, and bringing the game forward every time she could, meant that she had to win a major eventually, depending on whether she had to play Serena. If there was no Serena to aim for, the 2011 Woz would not have come so far. But Serena also has to be out for a little while to show how much the others have improved. Coincidentally, again, Woz wins her YEC in 2017. But Serena should not out for too long. Don’t forget that Serena was going to enter AO to begin with. Suddenly, after a somewhat dull 2017, they all start playing better. (eg: look at Kerber who completely disappeared during 2017, so completely that everybody nearly forgot her great 2016.) I suppose too that perhaps the prospect of facing Serena in the summer redoubled their endeavour here. Halep must also win her slam too, if she just stays in there.

Surpassing Serena is another matter entirely.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Still can't get over the fact she won. So happy. What a great match, ended up having to leave during the first set but was watching on my phone. Such high quality.

Halep fought so well, she'll get a slam one day. French Open possibly with a good draw.