2018 Indian Wells F: [1] Roger Federer vs. [6] Juan Martin Del Potro

Who wins the title?


  • Total voters
    98
  • Poll closed .

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
I think you can see the age starting to show with Federer. He really was fortunate to get by Coric to be honest. Obviously he's still going to win his share against this field but it will be very interesting to watch how he fares in Miami. It will seem hyperbolic because after all he's had a great start to the year, but I think there is some vulnerability. I'm no longer convinced he'll just have to show up to win Wimbledon.

@MugOpponent, for me, this is the best post in this entire thread. It sums it up perfectly. We saw signs of choking/nerves/age when he lost to Goffin at the YEC, a match he should have won in his sleep. Then he got a bit lucky in the AO final with Cilic, who isn't exactly a titan of mental strength. He should have wrapped up that match in three sets. The Del Potro match was another mental meltdown, screaming at the chair, slamming his racket on the court to indicate an out ball (that was in), and just generally not all there mentally or physically. It was quite a bizarre and out of character display.

I don't think Roger will win Miami and I would be surprised if he won Wimbledon, unless he gets some luck in scheduling and the draw. Even someone like Raonic, Tsonga, Nick or Berdych could beat him on grass on any given day. Someone posted a thread last week, "Will Fed be #1 at 45?" Well, yesterday's match should show his hold on #1 will become increasingly tenuous.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
Fed did win Madrid 2012, remember? And he made the RG semis that year too.
In 2015 Fed made the final of Rome and was only stopped by a godlike playing Wawrinka in the RG quarters.

With the field being even weaker compared to those years, yeah I'd think he'd add to the competition. Granted, we have yet to see how this version of Federer does on clay, but while a lot may be busy highlighting how this version of Federer won't do well on clay, I'm a bit more wary proclaiming the same. While he relies a lot on his serve, one-two shot combinations and taking the ball early, he's become a lot more consistent from the baseline and defends exceptionally well still and I don't see him getting tired out there. His fitness levels are extraordinary.

I think Fed should play 1 clay M1000 and FO. It would really add to the clay season as a whole; let's see what he decides.

Of course I remember that one, if FO switches to blue clay it might lure Fed back in. He made SF in FO yes but he had to come back from 0-2 down in QF to beat Delpo and went down in straights to Novak, a far cry from 2011 which was the last time Fed was a legit contender for the FO title. Losing to Stan in straights is not a badge of honour consider Fed's a bad match-up for him and that even someone like Tsonga pushed Stan pretty hard, it just showcases how much declined on clay.

Fed's quite vulnerable without his serve to back him up, we saw that recently in IW (against Delbonis, Coric and Delpo) and clay neutralizes serve. He has excellent fitness in a single match but his overall recovery and durability when faced with the rigours of the season is quite problematic due to age/mileage as evidenced by how beat-up he was last year (injured for Cinci and USO, visibly exhausted at WTF) despite a very limited schedule. Adding more events and on his worst surface where he'll have to run and play more rallies would be quite risky.

These are Fed's last few years on tour, his main focus is clearly adding to his slam tally to keep Nadal out of his reach. Taking a huge gamble and jepordizing his Wimbledon chances by grinding it out at the FO where he has very smal chances of actually winning (not the odds-on favourite to beat the field and zero chances against Nadal), would be pretty shocked if Fed made that call. I miss watching him on clay but it seems to me that he's effectively retired on the surface.
 

AndyM

Legend
I wanted Delpo for sure. I absolutely think it wuoul be good for the get instead of having the same guys win all the big tournaments. I was so disgusted o turned it off when Roger had two match points
Went back to it 5 minutes later and was so thrilled that the match was still on
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
@MugOpponent, for me, this is the best post in this entire thread. It sums it up perfectly. We saw signs of choking/nerves/age when he lost to Goffin at the YEC, a match he should have won in his sleep. Then he got a bit lucky in the AO final with Cilic, who isn't exactly a titan of mental strength. He should have wrapped up that match in three sets. The Del Potro match was another mental meltdown, screaming at the chair, slamming his racket on the court to indicate an out ball (that was in), and just generally not all there mentally or physically. It was quite a bizarre and out of character display.

I don't think Roger will win Miami and I would be surprised if he won Wimbledon, unless he gets some luck in scheduling and the draw. Even someone like Raonic, Tsonga, Nick or Berdych could beat him on grass on any given day. Someone posted a thread last week, "Will Fed be #1 at 45?" Well, yesterday's match should show his hold on #1 will become increasingly tenuous.

Grass is still grass, unless Novak somehow regains his 2015 form I'd favour the current Fed against the field. He's one of the best servers on tour, his slice is more effective there, he still moves better on grass than almost anyone in the field.

Fed will drop off eventually (and probably sooner than most people think) but I won't write him off for Wimbledon in a year which he started with a 17-0 winning streak.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
LMAO
I'd have like to see more of the Forehand DTL and slice deep up the middle though. Tomas completely dismantled DelPo with that

Yeah but DTL FH is Berdman's money shot, Fed's a different player. Also Tomas faced Delpo at AO where for some reasons (maybe the heat and grueling conditions, not sure to be honest) has always been very vulnerable.
 

tennis4me

Hall of Fame
Must be tough for Fergus Murphy that day. Being the punching bag from both sides. I wonder which umpire is the most stern and would've handed one or both players a warning to stop the continuing complaints. Jake Garner?
 
Grass is still grass, unless Novak somehow regains his 2015 form I'd favour the current Fed against the field. He's one of the best servers on tour, his slice is more effective there, he still moves better on grass than almost anyone in the field.

Fed will drop off eventually (and probably sooner than most people think) but I won't write him off for Wimbledon in a year which he started with a 17-0 winning streak.
I thought you stopped writing Fed off after winning Wimbledon last year. ;)
Yeah but DTL FH is Berdman's money shot, Fed's a different player. Also Tomas faced Delpo at AO where for some reasons (maybe the heat and grueling conditions, not sure to be honest) has always been very vulnerable.
The long match against Karen didn't help.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
I thought you stopped writing Fed off after winning Wimbledon last year. ;)

The long match against Karen didn't help.

You really are a lurker, lol. Atleast when it comes to Wimbledon I'll believe Fed is done as a contender once he hangs it up and retires.

I'm sure Kachanov match took out quite a bit from Delpo (especially considering the extreme conditions that day) but I was talking about his career overall. He never plays well AO, I don't think he took a set off Fed there in 3 meetings (and even got double-bageled once), it just doesn't suit him for some reason and that didn't change this year with the faster surface.

Edit: They had two meetings at AO apparently.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Federer did choke but Del Potro was the smarter/better player throughout most of this match and I had a feeling Del Potro would win in three as soon as I knew it was a Del Potro-Federer final.

It's all good. It could have gone either way in the end. You can't win them all and this ain't a slam. IMO, Federer should sit it out until grass season.
I think the Coric match sealed that deal.;)
 

Mr.Lob

G.O.A.T.
On the questionable drop shot by Fed...it worked at 4-4 in second set. Similar postioning. Delpo maybe a step of two further back. Just not executed well.
 

Overheadsmash

Professional
Delpo had a big forehand. Add that to the fact that Roger really had to grind to beat Coric and there you go. It’s amazing that he is playing so well at his age though.
 
Grass is still grass, unless Novak somehow regains his 2015 form I'd favour the current Fed against the field. He's one of the best servers on tour, his slice is more effective there, he still moves better on grass than almost anyone in the field.

Fed will drop off eventually (and probably sooner than most people think) but I won't write him off for Wimbledon in a year which he started with a 17-0 winning streak.

It is amazing that some people lack the perspective when they are writing things about Federer.

The fact that they are predicting that sooner or later he will lose his grip on the #1, without even thinking "wait, what, he is 36.5 freaking years old and #1?" tells everything about how they perceive the effort and the skill needed to get that far.

Federer will not be easily removed as a contender on grass, and it will not be the skill of the Nick's of this world that will do it, that is almost certain.

:cool:
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
I think the Coric match sealed that deal.;)

Possibly. Federer had trouble vs Coric on a slow hardcourt. His days of winning even slower clay tournaments are in the past IMO. Clay is for the youngins and that eternal clay beast, Nadal.
 
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mike danny

Bionic Poster
@MugOpponent, for me, this is the best post in this entire thread. It sums it up perfectly. We saw signs of choking/nerves/age when he lost to Goffin at the YEC, a match he should have won in his sleep. Then he got a bit lucky in the AO final with Cilic, who isn't exactly a titan of mental strength. He should have wrapped up that match in three sets. The Del Potro match was another mental meltdown, screaming at the chair, slamming his racket on the court to indicate an out ball (that was in), and just generally not all there mentally or physically. It was quite a bizarre and out of character display.

I don't think Roger will win Miami and I would be surprised if he won Wimbledon, unless he gets some luck in scheduling and the draw. Even someone like Raonic, Tsonga, Nick or Berdych could beat him on grass on any given day. Someone posted a thread last week, "Will Fed be #1 at 45?" Well, yesterday's match should show his hold on #1 will become increasingly tenuous.
Let's not go overboard.

Fed's performance on the slow IW is not indicative of his performance on the still faster grass. Fed on grass is still a different animal.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Really? Three of those guys on that list have beaten Federer at Wimbledon in his prime/near prime. Not overrating them at all against a 37 year old Fed.
Fed wasn't prime in 2010 post AO and 2011. And 2010 Wimb was Fed's worst Wimb after 2013.

They never beat prime Fed at Wimb.
 

Fintft

G.O.A.T.
@MugOpponent, for me, this is the best post in this entire thread. It sums it up perfectly. We saw signs of choking/nerves/age when he lost to Goffin at the YEC, a match he should have won in his sleep. Then he got a bit lucky in the AO final with Cilic, who isn't exactly a titan of mental strength. He should have wrapped up that match in three sets. The Del Potro match was another mental meltdown, screaming at the chair, slamming his racket on the court to indicate an out ball (that was in), and just generally not all there mentally or physically. It was quite a bizarre and out of character display.

I don't think Roger will win Miami and I would be surprised if he won Wimbledon, unless he gets some luck in scheduling and the draw. Even someone like Raonic, Tsonga, Nick or Berdych could beat him on grass on any given day. Someone posted a thread last week, "Will Fed be #1 at 45?" Well, yesterday's match should show his hold on #1 will become increasingly tenuous.

Federer to wrap up his AO final against Cilic in three sets? How so? When it's exactly the moment Cilic played for real and hit Federer of the court (wasn't it in set 4?).

As for Del Potro, I think that Del Potro was too hungry (his coach as well if you saw his face at match points) to roll over (as probably ATP tells every one and most players like Corric, Cilic etc listen)!

Federer has shown his age for a while now and it's not like his younger opponents were all inconsistent and mentally weak lol Common wake up guys! Roger or Rafa being icons for tennis and #1 helps sales by hundreds of million of bucks, if not billions....
 
D

Deleted member 756486

Guest
Federer to wrap up his AO final against Cilic in three sets? How so? When it's exactly the moment Cilic played for real and hit Federer of the court (wasn't it in set 4?).

As for Del Potro, I think that Del Potro was too hungry (his coach as well if you saw his face at match points) to roll over (as probably ATP tells every one and most players like Corric, Cilic etc listen)!

Federer has shown his age for a while now and it's not like his younger opponents were all inconsistent and mentally weak lol Common wake up guys! Roger or Rafa being icons for tennis and #1 helps sales by hundreds of million of bucks, if not billions....

Are you implying that sports are rigged for money? My friend believes that theory and I find it quite plausible.
 

Fintft

G.O.A.T.
Are you implying that sports are rigged for money? My friend believes that theory and I find it quite plausible.

Ok how about this fact:

Published: June 2, 1998 12:00 am
Michael Jordan's slam dunk career has had an MVP $10 billion impact on the economy, Fortune magazine estimates.

How much larger do you think Federer's impact is on the economy compared to Djokovic's?

And the second point was made by my wife: Let's not forget the glorification of baby boomers either...
 

flyingboris

Legend
Juan Martin is so strong. It always is a struggle. Having Roger play at 36 is a blessing. I will stay away from the highlights though! :oops::oops::oops:
Oh the highlights should be a walk in the park. The real torture is watching it live and suffering though the string of unforced errors and lapses in judgment! :D
 
D

Deleted member 742196

Guest
@MugOpponent, for me, this is the best post in this entire thread. It sums it up perfectly. We saw signs of choking/nerves/age when he lost to Goffin at the YEC, a match he should have won in his sleep. Then he got a bit lucky in the AO final with Cilic, who isn't exactly a titan of mental strength. He should have wrapped up that match in three sets. The Del Potro match was another mental meltdown, screaming at the chair, slamming his racket on the court to indicate an out ball (that was in), and just generally not all there mentally or physically. It was quite a bizarre and out of character display.

I don't think Roger will win Miami and I would be surprised if he won Wimbledon, unless he gets some luck in scheduling and the draw. Even someone like Raonic, Tsonga, Nick or Berdych could beat him on grass on any given day. Someone posted a thread last week, "Will Fed be #1 at 45?" Well, yesterday's match should show his hold on #1 will become increasingly tenuous.

Let's not go overboard.

Fed's performance on the slow IW is not indicative of his performance on the still faster grass. Fed on grass is still a different animal.

She/he? blows with the wind. Before the Federer-Del Potro IW match, she said Federer couldn't lose to Del Potro and that he would beat Del Potro in under two hours. She was mocking people for suggesting Federer would lose the final. Now, after Federer loses one match to Del Potro in a competitive IW final that could have gone either way, she's spouting the idiocy that Raonic(somebody she calls a complete useless mug on a daily basis and somebody who has recently come back from many injuries and looks terrible out there) could have the edge over Federer at Wimbledon! :rolleyes: A complete loose cannon that poster(IMO) and all over the place from one day to the next.

@BeatlesFan - yeah!

The guy above has a point - what the hell?

The deal originally was I get to say Fed can do all sorts of absurd things, and you get to call me mad, delusional, on crack and generally an imbicile.

This worked exceedingly well, both sides knew their lines.

Now you’ve gone and flipped the script with this silly babble about Fed being unable to beat Donskoy or whatever.

I say the hairbrained nonsense, you keep things real.

Let’s not mess with a tried and tested formula.

Get back on your horse.
 

Federer and Del Potro

Bionic Poster
@MugOpponent, for me, this is the best post in this entire thread. It sums it up perfectly. We saw signs of choking/nerves/age when he lost to Goffin at the YEC, a match he should have won in his sleep. Then he got a bit lucky in the AO final with Cilic, who isn't exactly a titan of mental strength. He should have wrapped up that match in three sets. The Del Potro match was another mental meltdown, screaming at the chair, slamming his racket on the court to indicate an out ball (that was in), and just generally not all there mentally or physically. It was quite a bizarre and out of character display.

I don't think Roger will win Miami and I would be surprised if he won Wimbledon, unless he gets some luck in scheduling and the draw. Even someone like Raonic, Tsonga, Nick or Berdych could beat him on grass on any given day. Someone posted a thread last week, "Will Fed be #1 at 45?" Well, yesterday's match should show his hold on #1 will become increasingly tenuous.

Wait didnt you say you thought Federer would never win another major before Aussie '18? o_O (might have been someone else).

Federer has proved this entire forum wrong time and time again. No reason to think that can't continue moving forward. A tight loss to Delpo that he should have won does nothing to change that.

Raonic needed 5 sets to beat Gimperer, Berdych hasn't beaten him in 5 years (on any surface), and Tsonga last played him on grass 7 yrs ago and needed the best serving day of his life to win in 5. Kyrgios has done nothing at Wimbledon to show any indication he can beat Federer on his lawn. Beating Nadal at Wimbledon is something plenty of journeymen have done.

So is it possible? Sure. Anything is possible. But those guys beating him on grass seems about as likely as Thiem beating Rafa at RG. Berdych played well vs Fed in the SF last yr and still got utterly destroyed.
 
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Really? Three of those guys on that list have beaten Federer at Wimbledon in his prime/near prime. Not overrating them at all against a 37 year old Fed.
Berdych and Tsonga have one foot in retirement, Raonic needs to get lucky like in 2016 and the only notable player Nick that has beaten in slams for the past few years was too old, fat and married Tsonga.
 

Poisoned Slice

Bionic Poster
Expel the pathetic people in the crowd who think they are being badass for shouting between the 1st & 2nd serves/shouting when the point is being played.
It's annoying for players and ruins it for others.

It's ridiculous. They all need to take the mandible claw and give over.
8f4S6QB8_400x400.jpg
 
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oldmanfan

Legend
Wait didnt you say you thought Federer would never win another major before Aussie '18? o_O (might have been someone else).

Federer has proved this entire forum wrong time and time again. No reason to think that can't continue moving forward. A tight loss to Delpo that he should have won does nothing to change that.

Raonic needed 5 sets to beat Gimperer, Berdych hasn't beaten him in 5 years (on any surface), and Tsonga last played him on grass 7 yrs ago and needed the best serving day of his life to win in 5. Kyrgios has done nothing at Wimbledon to show any indication he can beat Federer on his lawn. Beating Nadal at Wimbledon is something plenty of journeymen have done.

So is it possible? Sure. Anything is possible. But those guys beating him on grass seems about as likely as Thiem beating Rafa at RG. Berdych played well vs Fed in the SF last yr and still got utterly destroyed.

QFT


To add:
CAN Tsonga, Raonic, Berdych, and Nick beat Federer at WB? Of course, probability demands it!
Are they >50% LIKELY to beat him? First, they have to make it to him. Even if they do, the WB stats in the last 4 years suggest they won't beat him.

Last 4 years, WB2014-17:

Tsonga (4R, 3R, QF, 3R)
Berdych (3R, 4R, SF, SF)
Nick (QF, 4R, 4R, 1R)
Raonic (SF, 3R, F, QF)

Federer (F, F, SF, W)

The main knock on Fed for WB this year is his age, but is he the only one getting older?

To top it off:
Tsonga is injury prone now. Miami is his 3rd tournament in a row skipped.

Raonic is on the way back from injury and he may get into form by WB, but he's still out of form. Not jinxing him, but he's made of glass and is a bit overweight atm.

Berdych had his chance at Fed last year and lost convincingly.

Nick has a decent shot bc of his serve and being younger, but he is not motivated and inconsistent. He needs to make it to Fed first, not a given.

Fed played poorly at IW semis and finals, but the takeaway is that his movement was very good. This was why he won the semis and had 3MPs in the finals. To me, seeing his movement being so good was huge. It surprised me actually. I think if he has great movement, the rest of his game will come.

Fed to win Miami.

Fedr. :)
 

Federer and Del Potro

Bionic Poster
QFT


To add:
CAN Tsonga, Raonic, Berdych, and Nick beat Federer at WB? Of course, probability demands it!
Are they >50% LIKELY to beat him? First, they have to make it to him. Even if they do, the WB stats in the last 4 years suggest they won't beat him.

Last 4 years, WB2014-17:

Tsonga (4R, 3R, QF, 3R)
Berdych (3R, 4R, SF, SF)
Nick (QF, 4R, 4R, 1R)
Raonic (SF, 3R, F, QF)

Federer (F, F, SF, W)

The main knock on Fed for WB this year is his age, but is he the only one getting older?

To top it off:
Tsonga is injury prone now. Miami is his 3rd tournament in a row skipped.

Raonic is on the way back from injury and he may get into form by WB, but he's still out of form. Not jinxing him, but he's made of glass and is a bit overweight atm.

Berdych had his chance at Fed last year and lost convincingly.

Nick has a decent shot bc of his serve and being younger, but he is not motivated and inconsistent. He needs to make it to Fed first, not a given.

Fed played poorly at IW semis and finals, but the takeaway is that his movement was very good. This was why he won the semis and had 3MPs in the finals. To me, seeing his movement being so good was huge. It surprised me actually. I think if he has great movement, the rest of his game will come.

Fed to win Miami.

Fedr. :)

Well written and I concur with all of it. As long as Federer is healthy entering Wimbledon, he has to be the sizable favorite. Only a GOATing Cilic is someone I could see stopping him there. And after he cried his way out of Wimbledon last year, what on earth could possibly possess me to believe he will turn that all the way around into winning? Even in 2016 when Federer was gimped he still beat Cilic.

Raonic and Tsonga are basically toasted. They won't make it to Federer. Berdych is his pigeon. Even when Berdych is playing well vs Fed he remembers that he's his pigeon and rolls over and dies. Has for a good half decade now. But we're supposed to believe he can beat Rog at his favorite and best slam? Lol.

Maybe this is the yr Del Potro does something on grass. I'd love to see him play Fed (but please not in a final as the loser always makes me feel horrible).

So unless Djokovic or Murray suddenly decide to find their form or Nadal stops losing to journeymen...Federer is the big Wimby favorite.
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
This is the blockbuster final that we could hope for now. Two of the best players in the world at this moment fighting for the title, the best matchup of the moment. I expect Federer to pull it off in 3 close sets. 7-6 6-7 7-5. Delpo looked a little tired v Raonic even though he won easily, and his stamina might be the difference in the end.

Would just like to come back and say that you were more right than I was. The match was closer than I thought. :)
 

robert.s

Professional
Except to Nadal who bageled him in the USO SF last year after Delpo had beaten Fed in the QF.
Delpo has beaten Nadal to a pulp in USO before too. Swept the floor with him in a 6-2 6-2 6-2 match. If Del Potro's forehand is working and is consistent throughout the match, and he is in fine fitness, he can beat anyone.
 

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
Delpo has beaten Nadal to a pulp in USO before too. Swept the floor with him in a 6-2 6-2 6-2 match. If Del Potro's forehand is working and is consistent throughout the match, and he is in fine fitness, he can beat anyone.
Very big ask in Bo5.
 

robert.s

Professional
Very big ask in Bo5.

If he doesn't get back to back BO5 that go long distance, it's doable. Nadal is older too and there's no way to know in how good shape he'll be. When Nadal beat him at last year's USO he had the easiest draw ever, and Delpo was just coming after a very hard fought match with Federer.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
Delpo has beaten Nadal to a pulp in USO before too. Swept the floor with him in a 6-2 6-2 6-2 match. If Del Potro's forehand is working and is consistent throughout the match, and he is in fine fitness, he can beat anyone.
But Rafa returned the compliment last year by handing Delpo a bagel in the SF at the USO.
 

robert.s

Professional
But Rafa returned the compliment last year by handing Delpo a bagel in the SF at the USO.

True. Why know what else is true? That Nadal had lost to worse players than Del Potro on hard. Nadal and Federer can lose to any big hitter on a great day on hards.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
What a royal mess-up this turned out to be. Hope he dusts it off at the New Year Eve's party.
Fed is going to need more than that to have a successful 2019. He has to rediscover his neo BH and his old FH. Then heavy damage can occur, even at age 37.
 
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