2018 Indian Wells SF: [1] Roger Federer vs. Borna Coric

[Deleted member 688153]

These days Fed can still play the regal, untouchable frontrunner we have always known, but he can also play this scrappy, gritty role where he can get the job done with mental strength alone at the pointy end of long matches.

It's another dimension he's added since his mammoth victory over Nadal at the AO 2017 and I'm loving it. That match was pivotal in his career.

I've always loved Fed for how easy he makes it look, but winning the hard way is sooo satisfying too.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

He is so underrated for mental strength, especially since Ljubicic.

Whether you're up 4-0 at the club, or you're down match point at 8-9 against Nadal in a Wimbledon final tiebreaker when you decide to throw down all your chips on a passing shot, always carry yourself with the confidence of Roger Federer.

 

[Pagoo]

Still can't believe Federer won. What a crazy match!

 

[Chadillac]

now i am smiling at those who say that peak Djokovic would lose against this Federer. Borna in solid mode is just a poor copy of Nole Intel Celeron

LOL, people getting fired up because fed "almost" lost.

Djok should of played this tournament, he would of beaten fed

 

[Deleted member 77403]

LOL, people getting fired up because fed "almost" lost.

Djok should of played this tournament, he would of beaten fed

Djokovic did play, at the moment, he is a shell of his true self. I have no doubt that Federer would have extracted some payback had they met.

 

[Candide]

In summation. Borna was alive but Fed won in the Gilbert fashion.

 

[metsman]

you mean the 4th set ? because Fed didn't get broken in the 3rd set of that USO 2004 QF.

I just checked --- it was a long game with 6 deuces.
he also had some unreturned serves in that game. (including an ace on one BP and two of them when down 15-30)

agassi also got lucky on 2 points. on adv. federer, agassi hit a fh that completely deviated away from federer.
on the final BP, agassi's FH got lucky with a net chord.

At 40-30, you could see the wind shaking the net, fed hit a DF just then.

yeah, can't really blame fed for that lost set.
he played more than a decent enough set considering the conditions.

Watching that now, today's "windy" conditions does not begin to compare to the last 2 sets of that match.

Yeah I meant the 4th set obviously. Wind that day was clearly several notches above today and maybe any other big match I've ever seen. Chairs were blowing over and stuff. Federer did exceptionally to hold steady in the 5th in such conditions against such an opponent. I felt he was actually the better player in the 4th until that one disastrous game, so he did well to recover from that.

 

[skyline]

And I don’t but it. The more I can concede is that until that eighth game of the third set was over, it was a coin toss.

Well, you don't have to buy it. You can look at my posts in this thread. You'll notice I was confident throughout. And I was just expressing how I felt.

Scoreline-wise it was a coin toss but to me, it was clear Fed would pull through.

 

[Mainad]

Still can't believe Federer won. What a crazy match!

He hung in there, patiently waited for Coric to choke and when Coric duly obliged, he struck. Not his best performance (apparently was a bit under the weather with a cold) but he was still able to use his vast experience to outlast a dangerous young opponent.

 

[ihaveaquestion]

In summation. Borna was alive but Fed won in the Gilbert fashion.

No. Fed didn't win ugly. It was a great win, it shows Fed can win one way or another.

 

[BlueB]

No. Fed didn't win ugly. It was a great win, it shows Fed can win one way or another.

Once he realised he'd loise the match, Fed did a push fest. He even said so, himself, in on court interview.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

 

[NuBas]

Rog didn‘t shave, so Mirka is not giving it back til Wimbledon.

Bro its gone, its like he lost it just like the SABR... shame.

 

[zagor]

These days Fed can still play the regal, untouchable frontrunner we have always known, but he can also play this scrappy, gritty role where he can get the job done with mental strength alone at the pointy end of long matches.

It's another dimension he's added since his mammoth victory over Nadal at the AO 2017 and I'm loving it. That match was pivotal in his career.

I've always loved Fed for how easy he makes it look, but winning the hard way is sooo satisfying too.

It's not a new addition/dimension to his game, I've seen Fed tough out numerous close matches throughout his career and against much, much better players than Borna. Even in his most dominant 2004-2007 years he had plenty of similar matches, especially outside slams.

 

[Sudacafan]

Well, you don't have to buy it. You can look at my posts in this thread. You'll notice I was confident throughout. And I was just expressing how I felt.

Scoreline-wise it was a coin toss but to me, it was clear Fed would pull through.

Sorry, I was proving you. Now I believe you. Your faith in Lord Fedr will save you.

 

[zagor]

It's the usual case of a guy with a boring game like Coric being overlooked in favour of some latest flashier TTW's next-gen darling.

He has improved his serve and FH and has played some good tennis this week, showed some impressive resolve as well in a few tough matches.

I think Fed will have a tougher time than people expect, I'll pick him in 3 sets.

Gotta quote myself on one of those very rare times I've made a good prediction.

Shame I couldn't watch this one, sounds like it was a nailbiter. Nice to see young players pushing Fed, it's good for the game.

 

[zagor]

True. But Fed's defence has always been VASTLY underrated here. He's VERY good in defence actually.
Coric got that far. Shouldve closed it out

That's just recency bias, the same reason people act like Fed's BH was a terrible shot before.

Watch any of Fed's matches in his younger/peak days (for example 2003 Wimbledon SF against Roddick) and you'll hear commentators gush about his defence/movement/athleticism non-stop.

Fed used to be one of the best defenders on HC and especially grass. That changed a bit in his twilight years, he can't do it for the whole match these days but on big points when he's zoned in it can still be very hard to get a ball past him.

 

[Silence]

Just tuned in, how did Coric almost best Fed?

 

[Deleted member 512391]

Just tuned in, how did Coric almost best Fed?

Was pummeling his backhand with his own and troubled him with a great defense and the 2015 Djokovic depth from time to time. Fed made a lot of UEs and was a bit flat at times, though.

 

[BeatlesFan]

For anyone in the States who missed the match, Tennis Channel is re-airing it right now.

 

[chjtennis]

Coric should build on his success. Keep the momentum going while it's there. I expected him to be the new Djokovic a few years ago, but he's been disappointing. All of a sudden, it seems he is heading into the right direction and has been really solid this year. Pity he didn't do it a little earlier, cause he didn't do much at AO.

 

[Sentinel]

You're old enough to know that a 36.5 year old is never fresh

I packed in at 0-2 in the second set. It was late over here.

Woke up several times and checked the score. Was quite shocked. and of course relieved. Can't believe what happened.

Have it DVR'ed, will watch the rest some time today.

oh, just spoke wth Fed on the phone. He sez he was just trolling suresh and Nadal_freak by going down a set and a break.

 

[Otacon]

Fed has won his 13th straight M1000 SF.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

then you'd be a wish's azz...

oh look at the score.

recognize your hubris yet?

Coric has evolved the game from Djokovic. This is the result against Federer.

you're ridiculous.

enjoy your demi god's 1st set loss.

i'm celebrating that phants' hubris is vividly showing.

anyone one (rational) who has observed Coric's high level of play, especially his sublime defense and bigger serving this tournament, knows he has a good chance to beat Federer!

Chung was even competitive with Federer for 1 set in their previous match.

And the back problem is suddenly gone...

Federer being more defensive than a defensive playing Novak. Nice play from the "GOAT"

 

[Fedinkum]

Coric: “I am happy to lose to Roger?”

 

[Apun94]

doesn't mean their accomplishments (which are a part of greatness) don't count. We'll disagree on this.

Their accomplishments were great no doubt, but the level of tennis was FAR too low. Doesnt count

 

[Apun94]

That's just recency bias, the same reason people act like Fed's BH was a terrible shot before.

Watch any of Fed's matches in his younger/peak days (for example 2003 Wimbledon SF against Roddick) and you'll hear commentators gush about his defence/movement/athleticism non-stop.

Fed used to be one of the best defenders on HC and especially grass. That changed a bit in his twilight years, he can't do it for the whole match these days but on big points when he's zoned in it can still be very hard to get a ball past him.

Exactly. Fed in his prime, and even today, is one of the fastest guys on tour, both laterally and moving in the court. He's as gifted a natural athlete as Nadal, Djoko etc. The only reason he's not appreciated defensively is that he stands close to the baseline even while defending and makes it look effortless hence he isnt given enough credit.
His speed is one of the reasons he is still playing this well. Even if he has lost his explosiveness and power, he can still win whole tournaments by just being consistent

 

[Gary Duane]

absolutely nowhere close to a great match. people so over-use the word great.
it was a dramatic/tense match, but not good in quality, so can't be a great match.

I didn't get to watch it until long after it was over, so I was pretty dispassionate about it. From the description while it was happening I expected low quality with drama, but that's really not what I saw.

I thought it was a very good match, at least close to great.

I was surprised.

I got the idea that Coric totally choked from reading here, but while watching it looked more like he ran out of gas at the end - not so much running out of fitness as running out of belief.

 

[Feather]

Fair point. But a couple of things.
I said Fed should focus on RG, not a clay masters. RG is a 5 set battle. He wouldve eon today's match in a 5 setter even if Coric hadnt choked.
Secondly, the conditions in Paris are slightly cooler than in IW. So, physically it would be easier to play there.
Thirdly, Fed still isnt playing at the level he played in AO or Rotterdam. If he plays like that at RG, he's making the final no matter what.
Btw, I still believe Fed is the second favourite at RG. He really has to give himself that opportunity one last time. You never know

Agree that you were talking about RG.

Roger steadily declined in RG. 2011 he was second best at RG. 2012, he almost lost to del Potro. And Novak and Rafa were certainly better than him. He was injured in 2013. So let us leave it. 2014 he lost to Gulbis, 2015 he lost to Stan. In both the years he was Wimbleodon finalist. He did well in US Open and Aus also. Of course he was upset at AO 2015 but made up for that next year by losing to the eventual winner. The way I see it, Roger now has a clay problem. He is no way a second favourite in my opinion. The maximum he can reach is QF. That too if he gets a soft draw. Without many grinders who can prolong the game and tire him for the next round.

It's not about Rafa anymore. As number one and number two seeds, they can meet only at RG finals. I am pretty much confident that he will not reach final even if Andy Murray, Novak Djokovic and Stan don't play RG.

We can agree to disagree

 

[Pagoo]

He hung in there, patiently waited for Coric to choke and when Coric duly obliged, he struck. Not his best performance (apparently was a bit under the weather with a cold) but he was still able to use his vast experience to outlast a dangerous young opponent.

Yep. Not sure if Coric really choked, but I agree with everything else.

 

[Wander]

Would someone spell this phonetically, please?

[k ʊ m j ɛ ts ɛ]
I would think

 

[Mainad]

Yep. Not sure if Coric really choked, but I agree with everything else.

As I saw it, he choked away both his breaks in tthe 2nd set and his break at the start of the 3rd largely through poor serving and overcooked groundies. Nerves obviously got to him as he neared the finishing line. Amongst many other things Fed is a past master at, wearing down his opponent and daring them to beat him is near the top of the list.

 

[Badabing888]

The missed backhand down the line at 3-4 deuce was a clear choke by Borna. Roger was clearly not going to get to that and Borna did not need to be so close to the line to win that point let alone be so wide in the tramlines.
Still I thougt once Roger’s backhand slices were more consistent it exposed Borna’s lack forecourt game.

 

[rushhr]

Mirka is gonna give Roger a stern talking for such a lame win against boy coric.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Yep. Not sure if Coric really choked, but I agree with everything else.

I suppose it was technically a choke since Coric lost his serve three times in the fifth set, but Roger lost his serve twice in that same set. It's obvious that Coric's level dropped and this was his first Masters semi, so this was a huge match played on an enormous stadium with the crowd 99.9% behind Roger. Roger started junk balling, slicing and making him play in the forecourt, which none of the next Gen's feel comfy doing.

 

[Gary Duane]

As I saw it, he choked away both his breaks in tthe 2nd set and his break at the start of the 3rd largely through poor serving and overcooked groundies. Nerves obviously got to him as he neared the finishing line. Amongst many other things Fed is a past master at, wearing down his opponent and daring them to beat him is near the top of the list.

This is a guy who has never been a great server. There was nothing to indicate he would serve as well as he did yesterday up to the middle of the 2nd set, and if you check his stats for the whole match his serve fell back down to around what it usually is.

Instead of saying he choked, wouldn't it be more realistic to say that he played way above what we could have normally expected, at this time?

I think a lot of people are not giving Fed enough credit. In not giving him credit Coric also gets too much criticism.

If this was not a one time thing, if he is really finding his game and continues to improve, he's going to win a lot. And if yesterday was not an indication of where he really is (he was playing above himself), then we'll see that in the future - his level will fall down again.

 

[Mainad]

This is a guy who has never been a great server. There was nothing to indicate he would serve as well as he did yesterday up to the middle of the 2nd set, and if you check his stats for the whole match his serve fell back down to around what it usually is.

Instead of saying he choked, wouldn't it be more realistic to say that he played way above what we could have normally expected, at this time?

I think a lot of people are not giving Fed enough credit. In not giving him credit Coric also gets too much criticism.

If this was not a one time thing, if he is really finding his game and continues to improve, he's going to win a lot. And if yesterday was not an indication of where he really is (he was playing above himself), then we'll see that in the future - his level will fall down again.

Gary, he flunked 3 breaks of serve. He visibly tightened as the finishing line drew near. That, for me, is a choke. Fed was just hanging in there most of the time but, of course, that in itself is a tribute to his staying power and enormous experience.

 

[Gary Duane]

Gary, he flunked 3 breaks of serve. He visibly tightened as the finishing line drew near. That, for me, is a choke. Fed was just hanging in there most of the time but, of course, that in itself is a tribute to his staying power and enormous experience.

I was watching REALLY carefully, and as I say it was long after the results. I rewound on multiple occasions.

There were a number of key points, and in the heat of live play you might have missed some of them. One really important point in a break was when Fed hit two freak shots in a row that both clipped the net. That was just incredibly lucky. Either one not going over would have changed that game.

The momentum was changing, but there were some freak shots like that, and Coric got most of them in the first half of the match.

Looking at the score only it does look like Coric folded. But I think he was playing above himself, and I think it's unrealistic to expect a kid his age, in this era, to continue that way.

He has around a 75% figure for winning service games, and that's against the field. That means that you can expect, on average, that he will be broken one time out of 4. Fed is still around 95%, but that's too high and will come down. 90% is more realistic. Expect him to get broken one time in 10, against the field.

You can't expect Coric to get closer to 90% against the top player in the world. His serve isn't that good. To me it looks like it COULD be, with some fixes. He may be an inch taller than his official height, and the kid is STRONG. I think the serve can be improved a lot.

If Delpo does the same thing today, I'll agree that it is a choke, because his service game is much stronger.

The difference everywhere else is that his strength goes against Fed's strength, so Fed would probably do well to play much as he ended up playing against Coric, going to the BH. My guess is that Fed will have learned from recent meetings and will not attack the strength this time. Delpo does not like to hit his BH down the line, so attacking the BH corner, then going down the line with the FH is probably a lot of what Fed will do, if he can't outlast Delpo on that wing.

 

[zagor]

Finally got around to watching some of the match and I think Coric should get a bit more credit. It was one of those "throw the kitchen sink at him" performances where Borna was pressing out of his comfort zone and bravely took the fight to a much better player. That type of play won't make him a slam contender because it's not sustainable (he was running and hitting above his capacity which is why he was gassed at the end) but it did get him very close to performing a big upset.

Yeah, Fed had an off day but some of that was due to Borna and when he's riding high on confidence like it's the case right now he's still a handful even then. Yeah, Coric is nowhere near young Novak's (or Murray's for that matter) class let alone their peak versions but I've enjoyed his run at IW this year, I think he made some steps in the right direction and I like the fact that he didn't lay down against Fed.

 

[Meles]

How do you foresee the next gen doing against Nadal on clay this year, if he makes it onto the court?

It's Nadl you gotta worry about on clay not Fraud

Coric is a matchup issue for both Thiem and Nadal as is Pouille. Goffin in the mix of course with his WTF win and appears to be in strong form based on stats when he's been playing this year so may be better than last year. Zverev horrible against Nadal, but in the mix if one of the others does the dirty work. Schwartzman should be rough for Thiem, Nadal, and Zverev. Very interesting really.