2018 Madrid Masters QF: Kyle Edmund vs Denis Shapovalov

[Thomas Tung]

@mike danny @artesia Some idiot in the audience called "Come on Shapo" when he tossed the ball for serve. Kyle stopped thinking Umpire would stop play but Denis served and it was an ace. Umpire was right technically that he couldn't stop once the point was on but I think Kyle was expecting Shapo to re-do a serve which he probably should have but it was 30-30 so he didn't choose to be benevolent.

No offence but your Canadian flag tells me you may be just a wee bit biased. Some think Shapo should have offered a let to Edmund. On a 30/30 point I get why he didn’t but many players would have. There were some boos and whistles right after the handshake as he walked over to the bench.

Did Kyle actually hold up his hand to stop play (and indicate that he wasn't ready as a result of that person in the audience)? If he did, not the best move from Shapo -- but if he didn't, Edmund has no excuse.

Somewhat similar situation in the AO (vs Cilic) earlier this year:

 

[EloQuent]

Shapovalov on the controversy. "It was too fast. But obviously I felt really bad. I felt awful about it. But I wasn't really sure what to do in the situation. At the end of the day I think it's the ref's call. The ref has to make that decision. That's why he's there."




https://twitter.com/josemorgado/status/995047468642553857

 

[gogo]

Did Kyle actually hold up his hand to stop play (and indicate that he wasn't ready as a result of that person in the audience)? If he did, not the best move from Shapo -- but if he didn't, Edmund has no excuse.

Somewhat similar situation in the AO (vs Cilic) earlier this year:

Regardless, Edmund won the set. It had no impact on the outcome of the match.
I'm also not sure why Shapo should be responsible for the ump's call? Why does it rest on his shoulders?

He played the point. Edmund decided not to (not waiting for the ump to call it). And now people are blaming Denis. It's not right.

 

[flyinghippos101]

Edmund is 4 years older than Denis, so he should have the upper hand in any rivalry for awhile. Hope not, though.

Why would Edmund have the upper hand in the forseeable future? Denis was only 18, but had already scored TWO wins over Edmund and drew their H2H to a tie, and is now leading their H2H. That speaks a lot about how good Shaps is at his age, and realistically points to the "rivalrly" getting more one-sided from here on in Shaps favor as he grows physically into his body and develops his game technically.

Meanwhile, Edmund at 24 is pretty much near his physical peak and seems to be nearing the ceiling for his game's technical development, and yet he barely scrapes though/remains competitive with a 18/19 year-old. In other words, it's not Edmund who'll have the upper hand for awhile; realistically it'll probably be Denis.

 

[toby55555]

Why would Edmund have the upper hand in the forseeable future? Denis was only 18, but had already scored TWO wins over Edmund and drew their H2H to a tie, and is now leading their H2H. That speaks a lot about how good Shaps is at his age, and realistically points to the "rivalrly" getting more one-sided from here on in Shaps favor as he grows physically into his body and develops his game technically.

Meanwhile, Edmund at 24 is pretty much near his physical peak and seems to be nearing the ceiling for his game's technical development, and yet he barely scrapes though/remains competitive with a 18/19 year-old. In other words, it's not Edmund who'll have the upper hand for awhile; realistically it'll probably be Denis.

Yes although I felt Edmund might edge this encounter on consistency it’s hard not to see Shaps having the better career in front of him. Being an all out offensive player he’s bound to pile up the unforced errors but once he gets the balance right he can be at least as successful as Berdych another go for it player and at just 6’ Shaps is a better mover than the Czech.
Whether Edmund can squeeze a bit more speed of foot from his training seems doubtful, he’s naturally quite bulky despite a modest 6’2”. Hopefully some more GS semis at least.

 

[Tornes]

Yes although I felt Edmund might edge this encounter on consistency it’s hard not to see Shaps having the better career in front of him. Being an all out offensive player he’s bound to pile up the unforced errors but once he gets the balance right he can be at least as successful as Berdych another go for it player and at just 6’ Shaps is a better mover than the Czech.
Whether Edmund can squeeze a bit more speed of foot from his training seems doubtful, he’s naturally quite bulky despite a modest 6’2”. Hopefully some more GS semis at least.

Shapo and Berdych are totally different players. Berdych hits much flatter from both wings, which alone is big enough technical deficit to never be consistently great. Shapo hits with many more RPS and moves better. On the other hand, while Shapo is faster he somewhat lacks good defensive strokes (eg his slice is worse than Berdych's), so his defence in general is not so good. However Shapo still has a lot time to improve, something Tomas does not have.

Well, next week they will play first round match in Rome so we will see...

 

[toby55555]

Shapo and Berdych are totally different players. Berdych hits much flatter from both wings, which alone is big enough technical deficit to never be consistently great. Shapo hits with many more RPS and moves better. On the other hand, while Shapo is faster he somewhat lacks good defensive strokes (eg his slice is worse than Berdych's), so his defence in general is not so good. However Shapo still has a lot time to improve, something Tomas does not have.

Well, next week they will play first round match in Rome so we will see...

Different styles yes but both ultra attacking. Interesting first round match, won’t be too many long rallies.

 

[mellowyellow]

Did Kyle actually hold up his hand to stop play (and indicate that he wasn't ready as a result of that person in the audience)? If he did, not the best move from Shapo -- but if he didn't, Edmund has no excuse.

Somewhat similar situation in the AO (vs Cilic) earlier this year:

If Edmund wants to stop a server he needs to voice it forcefully before the ball is struck... Can't wait till the guy hits the ball to half heartedly, raise your racket, while half heartedly playing the ball at the same time. The call out was so soft you barely hear it at normal TV levels, as a result Edmund is so wishy-washy here you don't actually know straight away what's going on. Let's be honest here the hindrance was on the server not the returner, server kept his concentration and hit an ace Edmund wasn't even close to touching. Umpire made the fair call. This is a big situation not recreational park playoffs.

 

[mellowyellow]

Did Kyle actually hold up his hand to stop play (and indicate that he wasn't ready as a result of that person in the audience)? If he did, not the best move from Shapo -- but if he didn't, Edmund has no excuse.

Somewhat similar situation in the AO (vs Cilic) earlier this year:

Call comes after or while the ball is coming off his racket... So he now has a history of wanting handouts?

 

[Tornes]

Different styles yes but both ultra attacking. Interesting first round match, won’t be too many long rallies.

Both are attacking player, with that I agree. But Denis is still (at least so far, will see how he will evolve) much more atacking player than Tomáš is. He end the rally in 27 % of his shots, Tomáš "only" in 22 % of his shots. This is quiet big difference.

 

[Tornes]

Did Kyle actually hold up his hand to stop play (and indicate that he wasn't ready as a result of that person in the audience)? If he did, not the best move from Shapo -- but if he didn't, Edmund has no excuse.

Somewhat similar situation in the AO (vs Cilic) earlier this year:

Well he did. But after Denis already hit the serve, in about the time the ball was passing him by. In my opinion it was Edmund's own mistake and he is only one to blame here. But of course, I am biased so who knows.

 

[toby55555]

Both are attacking player, with that I agree. But Denis is still (at least so far, will see how he will evolve) much more atacking player than Tomáš is. He end the rally in 27 % of his shots, Tomáš "only" in 22 % of his shots. This is quiet big difference.

What's Tsonga's percentage out of interest?

 

[Goosehead]

Why would Edmund have the upper hand in the forseeable future? Denis was only 18, but had already scored TWO wins over Edmund and drew their H2H to a tie, and is now leading their H2H. That speaks a lot about how good Shaps is at his age, and realistically points to the "rivalrly" getting more one-sided from here on in Shaps favor as he grows physically into his body and develops his game technically.

Meanwhile, Edmund at 24 is pretty much near his physical peak and seems to be nearing the ceiling for his game's technical development, and yet he barely scrapes though/remains competitive with a 18/19 year-old. In other words, it's not Edmund who'll have the upper hand for awhile; realistically it'll probably be Denis.

Edmund is 23..born jan1995, shapo is 19..born apr1999.

 

[Tornes]

What's Tsonga's percentage out of interest?

24 %, right in between Berdych and Shapo.

However I think that as Shapo improves he will get better at defending and therefore not end the rallys as quick as he does now. He will of course still be attacker but I think he will move from great servers/sometimes voleyers zone (his numbers now are similar to Isner, Muller, Raonic, who are all from 27 % to 29 %) more to attacking baseliners, almost allcourters like Federer, Tsonga, Cilic (22 %- 25 %).

 

[flyinghippos101]

Edmund is 23..born jan1995, shapo is 19..born apr1999.

Fair point, Edmund is 23 not 24; my post also qualifies that Shaps won two matches against Edmund WHILE he was 18. In any case my point still stands

 

[abmk]