2018 Madrid Masters R2: Novak Djokovic[10] vs Kyle Edmund

Prediction poll

  • Novak in 2

    Votes: 9 37.5%
  • Novak in 3

    Votes: 6 25.0%
  • Kyle in 2

    Votes: 2 8.3%
  • Kyle in 3

    Votes: 7 29.2%

  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .
B

BrokenGears

Guest
Well I called it.

Contrary to what people think, I personally believe USO is when Djokovic will play his best
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
It makes me wonder if Agassi suggested to Djokovic that he go and play some challengers for awhile, to get some matches in

From what the scuttlebutt in Vegas is saying, Andre told Djokovic that he was not ready to play in either IW or Miami. Djoker wouldn't listen, played both and lost his first two matches, and that was that. And apparently, Agassi never said, "I told you so." Roddick suggested the same thing on ESPN radio.
 
Props to Edmund! Great win! He’s playing great and doing British tennis proud. It’s another sign that Djoko is still a long way from his best and getting back to the top.

I still have hope he can but nothing is certain and he’s going to have to fight hard to get out this barren run. He may never comeback and it all depends on him. He’s in the same place Rafa was in 2015. Can Novak respond like Rafa or is this the end? Whatever, happens Novak has had a super career but it depends on him whether he can add more great things to it or if it’s the end of the road now.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Do you see djokovic bouncing back in future like Fed or Nadal did it in the past???
No, and I've said it ever since the summer of 2016: he is mentally done. Actually, there's no similarity at all between Fed and Nadal's comebacks and Nole's.

Neither Fed or Rafa ever were mentally fried. They had various physical injuries, but both always had the fire burning within them to return. They both still loved the game, the competition and the life on tour. Neither ever experienced these types of losses either-- ever in their career (unless we're talking Fed in 1998). Neither fired their entire team, neither had marital/S.I. gossip swirling around them, none walked on court weighing 30 pounds less than an ideal playing weight. We could go on an on: Federer and Nadal still love to play the game and it shows. That's the difference. Just look at Novak's body language these days: he doesn't give one damn anymore.

It's not rocket science and none of his fans seem able to admit it: Djokovic is mentally DONE. It doesn't matter what his form is, his mind and his heart aren't in it. I honestly believe he's playing solely to fulfill his contractual obligations at this point.
 

SeeingDusk

Hall of Fame
Nole done! Nole should retire. Don't see him getting back to his best or even close to it. He's fine physically, but he needs some confidence. He'll only tarnish his legacy if he keeps going like this.
 

Thundergod

Hall of Fame
Still not good enough for Joe. He's improving a little, but I don't see any indication that he's going to be a slam contender soon. People need to stop pumping up his opponents unless they were literally redlining. If Joe was on the right track, then he would have beaten Edmund, no questions asked. He's going to have to figure out something quick since it has potential to get ugly if he keeps his form unseeded.
 

aditya123

Hall of Fame
It's not rocket science and none of his fans seem able to admit it: Djokovic is mentally DONE. It doesn't matter what his form is, his mind and his heart aren't in it. I honestly believe he's playing solely to fulfill his contractual obligations at this point.
quite true.
 
Real telling of the Spanish people too who are cheering on a Brit in Kyle Edmund who is as entertaining as Isner.... Butt hurt bunch of people for sure smh
 
D

Deleted member 733170

Guest
Does any credit go to Edmund or is it a case of Troll Warehouse taking the easy option to dump on Novak?

Sadly couldn’t watch the match.
 

Rickenbacker4003

Hall of Fame
It's weird with Novak. Physically he doesn't look "wasted", he doesn't have much stamina, but that's something that can improve with more match play and better fitness routine. But he looks fried, mentally speaking. What people don't see is that during his time at the top he wanted to demolish everyone he played and he went further in tournaments he didn't really need to. His game was flowing and his defense was untouchable. But he comes off as a person who thrived under crowd animosity. He is (to use a wrestling terminology) a heel. He played best when the crowd were against him. He wanted to use that anger as an energy. "You see?! I showed you!". But the crowd always gets their revenge and now they could care less he sucks now.

In some way, his time at the top was built on turbulence. He was never the crowd favorite and now that he's struggling you don't see big crowds and much encouragement in his direction like Federer and Nadal had when they were in their respective slumps. Those two were still drawing massive crowds and you'd hear the crowd willing them to bring their old forms back and they did. With Novak's matches you see less people present you don't see the same crowds trying to see him bring back his old form again. It's almost as if the public is saying "You were great, you're not so good anymore, ok bye. We want to keep seeing Fed and Nadal winning." There seems to be a lack of interest in him being as great as he used to be.

If he finds the fire and perhaps a new desire to prove doubters wrong he may be great again. But that's something he needs to have from within. I don't think it's physical as much as mental for him. When he made his run at greatness he had much less than now. He has 12 slams and won all 4. He dominated for 5 years. But as someone pointed out before, I feel that he's out there to complete his Lacoste contract and then call it a day. I still give him 2019 to make a move. If he doesn't, then he needs to find something else to do.
 
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clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
Real telling of the Spanish people too who are cheering on a Brit in Kyle Edmund who is as entertaining as Isner.... Butt hurt bunch of people for sure smh
I was sitting in the stands and it may look like they were cheering against Djokovic but they were just cheering for the winner. Djokovic got good support from the crowd.
 

ACE of Hearts

Bionic Poster
It's weird with Novak. Physically he doesn't look "wasted", he doesn't have much stamina, but that's something that can improve with more match play and better fitness routine. But he looks fried, mentally speaking. What people don't see is that during his time at the top he wanted to demolish everyone he played and he went further in tournaments he didn't really need to. His game was flowing and his defense was untouchable. But he comes off as a person who thrived under crowd animosity. He is (to use a wrestling terminology) a heel. He played best when the crowd were against him. He wanted to use that anger as an energy. "You see?! I showed you!". But the crowd always gets their revenge and now they could care less he sucks now.

In some way, his time at the top was built on turbulence. He was never the crowd favorite and now that he's struggling you don't see big crowds and much encouragement in his direction like Federer and Nadal had when they were in their respective slumps. Those two were still drawing massive crowds and you'd hear the crowd willing them to bring their old forms back and they did. With Novak's matches you see less people present you don't see the same crowds trying to see him bring back his old form again. It's almost as if the public is saying "You were great, you're not so good anymore, ok bye. We want to keep seeing Fed and Nadal winning." There seems to be a lack of interest in him being as great as he used to be.

If he finds the fire and perhaps a new desire to prove doubters wrong he may be great again. But that's something he needs to have from within. I don't think it's physical as much as mental for him. When he made his run at greatness he had much less than now. He has 12 slams and won all 4. He dominated for 5 years. But as someone pointed out before, I feel that he's out there to complete his Lacoste contract and then call it a day. I still give him 2019 to make a move. If he doesn't, then he needs to find something else to do.


It's called getting old. He's 30. He has to adjust his game. His game's similar to nadal. He just won't be dominant anymore. Now he knows how fed felt those times he came up short against him.
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Well I called it.

Contrary to what people think, I personally believe USO is when Djokovic will play his best

Now it's the USO? For weeks, you've been posting that you thought Djokovic would peak for the FO! :oops:

"He'll peak for the FO," "he's the only player who can challenge Nadal on clay." "the only player Nadal fears on clay is Djokovic," etc. etc. :oops:
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
I was sitting in the stands and it may look like they were cheering against Djokovic but they were just cheering for the winner. Djokovic got good support from the crowd.

It looked like there were 20 people in the stands watching the match. Why was it so empty? I mean I know it's Djokovic but really! ;) It must be hard for him to get pumped up when he looks into the stands and sees them virtually empty.
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
No, and I've said it ever since the summer of 2016: he is mentally done. Actually, there's no similarity at all between Fed and Nadal's comebacks and Nole's.

Neither Fed or Rafa ever were mentally fried. They had various physical injuries, but both always had the fire burning within them to return. They both still loved the game, the competition and the life on tour. Neither ever experienced these types of losses either-- ever in their career (unless we're talking Fed in 1998). Neither fired their entire team, neither had marital/S.I. gossip swirling around them, none walked on court weighing 30 pounds less than an ideal playing weight. We could go on an on: Federer and Nadal still love to play the game and it shows. That's the difference. Just look at Novak's body language these days: he doesn't give one damn anymore.

It's not rocket science and none of his fans seem able to admit it: Djokovic is mentally DONE. It doesn't matter what his form is, his mind and his heart aren't in it. I honestly believe he's playing solely to fulfill his contractual obligations at this point.

It's way too early to say that, IMO. He doesn't need to go out there and humiliate himself. He could walk away and still earn multi-millions. He must want to compete. He's trying. I think it will take some time for him to give it a good go. His fans shouldn't expect a quick turnaround. That's unrealistic given his current form and his form for the past two years. He has to rework things and try and slowly build some momentum.
 

Booger

Hall of Fame
It's almost as if the public is saying "You were great, you're not so good anymore, ok bye. We want to keep seeing Fed and Nadal winning." There seems to be a lack of interest in him being as great as he used to be.

Do you blame them? Obviously I'm not talking about the guy personally, but watching him waltz his way into GS final after GS final by playing defense only retriever tennis was a terrible look for the sport.
 
Do you blame them? Obviously I'm not talking about the guy personally, but watching him waltz his way into GS final after GS final by playing defense only retriever tennis was a terrible look for the sport.
Waltz in = draws Fed semi 95% of draws over the last 10 years. TT brilliance right there...
 

The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
Tail end of the first set is typical of Djokovic these days, half hearted attempt at forehands, not getting into proper position with the footwork, taking no time between points. It's like he's thinking "OK, screw this, onto the next set." Another little mental hurdle he'll need to overcome.

Before that, you really only saw it a couple of times in rare moments like the Doha match against Karlovic, where he was obviously frustrated big time and probably thought the match was pretty much done and dusted then and there....
 
Tail end of the first set is typical of Djokovic these days, half hearted attempt at forehands, not getting into proper position with the footwork, taking no time between points. It's like he's thinking "OK, screw this, onto the next set." Another little mental hurdle he'll need to overcome.

Before that, you really only saw it a couple of times in rare moments like the Doha match against Karlovic, where he was obviously frustrated big time and probably thought the match was pretty much done and dusted then and there....
His movement looked week today I'm.
 

Rickenbacker4003

Hall of Fame
Tail end of the first set is typical of Djokovic these days, half hearted attempt at forehands, not getting into proper position with the footwork, taking no time between points. It's like he's thinking "OK, screw this, onto the next set." Another little mental hurdle he'll need to overcome.

Before that, you really only saw it a couple of times in rare moments like the Doha match against Karlovic, where he was obviously frustrated big time and probably thought the match was pretty much done and dusted then and there....
I think that’s where he’s mentally done. He doesn’t have the mindset to go through the grind again. At least not to the extent he used to do it.
 
B

BrokenGears

Guest
Now it's the USO? For weeks, you've been posting that you thought Djokovic would peak for the FO! :oops:

"He'll peak for the FO," "he's the only player who can challenge Nadal on clay." "the only player Nadal fears on clay is Djokovic," etc. etc. :oops:

Lol, most of those threads were satirical...

And yes, I still think Djoko is the only won who can challenge Rafa and Rafa was afraid of him for time.

Still, I do believe Djoko can do dmg at RG. If he can string together more than 2 matches at Rome, he’ll make quarters at RG.

Hard courts have always been his forte
 
Djokovic of the past used to run players ragged and then defend like his life depended on winning the point. I saw only the highlights on youtube but it looked like he didn't even try to get some shots that he could have.
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Lol, most of those threads were satirical...

And yes, I still think Djoko is the only won who can challenge Rafa and Rafa was afraid of him for time.

Still, I do believe Djoko can do dmg at RG. If he can string together more than 2 matches at Rome, he’ll make quarters at RG.

Hard courts have always been his forte

Your posts/threads weren't satirical! You were serious.

"If" Djokovic can string more than two wins together at Rome that means he'll reach the QF at RG? What kind of logic is that? Dude, come on! Have you actually been watching Djokovic's current game? He's a mess. It will unlikely be a quick fix. It's probably going to take some time. The problem is that he's a real target now and younger players like Zverev, Kyrgios will be licking their chops at a chance to play him and beat him which is unfortunate because what Djokovic needs more than anything else is momentum.

My guess(and it's only a guess) is that this year will be a write-off for him. But unlike some other posters on this forum, I don't think Djokovic has lost his will to compete. So if that's true, it's a good sign for Djokovic fans. You need to be very patient.
 
Djokovic of the past used to run players ragged and then defend like his life depended on winning the point. I saw only the highlights on youtube but it looked like he didn't even try to get some shots that he could have.
There were a lot he struggled to get to... The court looked dry too not damp like how it was with Nads/Monf match.
 

The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
Finally finished watching the whole match, again, I don't see many positives from this performance either. Second set was good I suppose, kept the UE count to a minimum and started to physically impose himself a bit more, while Edmund increasingly lost intensity and self confidence. Still wasn't that convinced with Novak's movement, I agree with others here, especially moving towards his forehand side. Also thought the decrease in points lost on serve for Novak, was more a fault of Kyle's exploits as well. His serve is still meh...

Maybe I'm being a little harsh, I just have really high standards for Novak.
 

EllieK

Hall of Fame
He never won the Olympics so his career is ultimately a failure.

Mury goat.

Neither did Fed and I would hardly call his career a failure. Murray has two Olympic gold and as a Scot I was cheering him on even against my guy Fed, but i would take Fed’s numbers over Murray’s any day.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
No, and I've said it ever since the summer of 2016: he is mentally done. Actually, there's no similarity at all between Fed and Nadal's comebacks and Nole's.

Neither Fed or Rafa ever were mentally fried. They had various physical injuries, but both always had the fire burning within them to return. They both still loved the game, the competition and the life on tour. Neither ever experienced these types of losses either-- ever in their career (unless we're talking Fed in 1998). Neither fired their entire team, neither had marital/S.I. gossip swirling around them, none walked on court weighing 30 pounds less than an ideal playing weight. We could go on an on: Federer and Nadal still love to play the game and it shows. That's the difference. Just look at Novak's body language these days: he doesn't give one damn anymore.

It's not rocket science and none of his fans seem able to admit it: Djokovic is mentally DONE. It doesn't matter what his form is, his mind and his heart aren't in it. I honestly believe he's playing solely to fulfill his contractual obligations at this point.
If you look back at 2015/2016, IIRC Rafa mentioned not enjoying the sport and being on the practise courts like he used to. Thing is he got it back quite quickly, but with Novak, who knows...
 
D

Deleted member 757547

Guest
Lol, most of those threads were satirical...

And yes, I still think Djoko is the only won who can challenge Rafa and Rafa was afraid of him for time.

Still, I do believe Djoko can do dmg at RG. If he can string together more than 2 matches at Rome, he’ll make quarters at RG.

Hard courts have always been his forte
Djokovic is the only guy who can challenge Rafa on clay consistently. (He beat him 7 times) However, Djokovic has to be fit to have a chance against Rafa. His H2H on clay against Rafa is still 7-16, so it is not that great. I think it's safe to say that Novak will not find his peak in a month's time.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Dude. Chill. I'm not predicting an Edmund win. I honestly don't really know who to pick because both are not exactly coming off of a solid stretch of performances. All I said is that I think Edmund will give Djokovic a lot more trouble than some people may think. As for Edmund's forehand being a weapon, no I don't think so. I think he can hit his forehand hard. But that's it. So can every other nextgen firecracker. Edmund's real weapon is his movement and early prep.

Using your optics... Edmund is 23 years old and he hits his forehand really hard when he wants... therefore the guy will win multiple masters based on those two things alone. Haven't you already been embarrassed enough with your predictions of nextgen greatness based on a few hard-hit forehands and a couple of match wins strung together?

Based on your own track record, do you think perhaps that maybe you should consider a different approach when it comes to judging tennis players?
I'm just getting to peruse the thread and did see most of the match. I think your bolded statement was pretty spot on.;) He did well at hugging the baseline and keeping pressure on Djoko. Edmund of course used his forehand quite a bit, but the backhand did a lot of damage as well. Still really quite the upset as Djoko was really holding serve well and got ***** by chance and a brilliantly opportunistic Edmund who pounced on the opening for the final break (shades of Raonic feasting on Fed at 2016 Wimby). Edmund's improved serve helped him dig out of 0-40 hole in that last set and probably saved the day for him right there.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Does any credit go to Edmund or is it a case of Troll Warehouse taking the easy option to dump on Novak?

Sadly couldn’t watch the match.
Spot on just from what I've been reading on this back page. Looks like Fraudlings Gone Wild. See my post one or two above.

I'm really amazed with what Edmund did. I believe before the break Djokovic has won all 12 points on serve in the set. He got all first serves in the game he was broken. Edmund was absolutely tremendous and lucky for that one break and then closed out the match in a similar vein.

If I'm a Djokovic fan (and I'm becoming one again in a way because I like what I'm seeing) there were some really huge, huge positives in this match for Nole:
1. Played great after craptastic start donating the first set.
2. Excellent serve velocity at 198 kph average first serve.:eek: 2nd serve trying to get to Becker era class at 157 kph.
3. Djokovic held serve really well in 2nd and 3rd set until the rape job by Edmund
4. yeah he's rusty, but crafty as well and I'd swear he rope a doped Edmund by tanking his last two service games in the first set and then immediately breaking to start the 2nd.

Negatives:
1. Old player erratic start to the match
2. Tanking his last two service games of the first set to me also a sign that he does not feel in shape to go three strong sets so I'd say a deep RG run is out.:oops:

Overall based on his run for Wimbledon last year I'd say he could be a contender and who knows after if he actually gets in shape and match tough. Today's debacle does not happen if he's playing regularly.o_O

Edit: I'm losing my marbles. The serve numbers were not correct on velocity 184/151 is the real number so nothing to write home about. Without the velocity numbers I'm back to waiting for his prime serve to return.:oops:
 
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Meles

Bionic Poster
Tail end of the first set is typical of Djokovic these days, half hearted attempt at forehands, not getting into proper position with the footwork, taking no time between points. It's like he's thinking "OK, screw this, onto the next set." Another little mental hurdle he'll need to overcome.

Before that, you really only saw it a couple of times in rare moments like the Doha match against Karlovic, where he was obviously frustrated big time and probably thought the match was pretty much done and dusted then and there....
See my post above for some detail on that, but specifically his first service games of the set he was something like 27 seconds between points. Those last few service games in the first were 17 seconds between points according to the commies. Looked like a tank job more or less.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
It looked like there were 20 people in the stands watching the match. Why was it so empty? I mean I know it's Djokovic but really! ;) It must be hard for him to get pumped up when he looks into the stands and sees them virtually empty.
The court was full. Rafa has full capacity and Djokovic is next as far as numbers are concerned even more than the other Spaniards like Feli and Nando. Those grey boxes for corporate hospitality guests are far too many, they take up half the court and there is a lot of turnover of guests because they are just there for socialising so it makes the court look empty. Also. because of the structure of the boxes and the flower pots all over the place, you can't really see if there are people sitting in them. I had to sit in one of the boxes for 2 games because I got back to the court just before play started again and I couldn't see the court for flowers. Djokovic was well received by the crowd.

 
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Charleneriva

Hall of Fame

Djokovic doesn't look skinny at all. He looks healthy, to me.

Way to go, queen. ;)

He does look very thin though, especially when you see him changing his shirt; but obviously still healthy.

The court was full. Rafa has full capacity and Djokovic is next as far as numbers are concerned even more than the other Spaniards like Feli and Nando. Those grey boxes for corporate hospitality guests are far too many, they take up half the court and there is a lot of turnover of guests because they are just there for socialising so it makes the court look empty. Also. because of the structure of the boxes and the flower pots all over the place, you can't really see if there are people sitting in them. I had to sit in one of the boxes for 2 games because I got back to the court just before play started again and I couldn't see the court for flowers. Djokovic was well received by the crowd.
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